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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Salt Lake City, Utah

I'm looking for the wisdom from the vet players around here.
I'm looking for ways to improve this list. I'm also sharing it for the benefit of my fellow guardsmen, because my playtesting with proxy models has shown it to be an extremely powerful list that I enjoy playing with very much. (Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers fans will know my inspiration for this list)

For anyone not familiar with the Abhuman doctrines, Afriel Strain gives the squads And They Shall Know no Fear, and gives my opponant Preferred Enemy against me. Every squad in my army has Afriel Strain.
The reason I'm taking it is because I think it's one of the best ways to upgrade guard leadership. ATSKNF is a great rule for guard, because they can always regroup below 50%, and they don't count as moving when they do regroup, so they can stilll fire to full effect. In my list I also take advantage of veteran sergeants and close order drill, which means my units have leadership 9 and ATSKNF without the need for a vox network, and it costs less points then most vox networks.

The basic strategy so far is to set up the ten infantry squads in a wicked picket-line (multiple defensive lines of squads spaced out to prevent the enemy from consolidating into a new unit after HTH combat), and then drop in the command squads and the veterans. However, there have been occasions when I have found it better to drop everything in, like against armies that can completely outshoot me, like some kinds of Tau, and against armies that can take heavy advantage of my initial setup, like demon bombs and drop pod armies. However, against most things I like to setup a picket line with my infantry, as it encourages my opponants to come at me, and then my drop units hit them as they advance.

A quick note on my command squads. They are unbelieveably brutal. 86 points for 8 plasma shots and 2 boltgun shots is a bargian. Sure, I lose a lot of guardsmen due to overheat, but the sheer weight of plasma fire they bring is, quite frankly, sensational, especially when you consider that most marine armies only have about 35-40 marines in them, and my list has 33 dropping plasma guns. They are also excellent tanks hunters when they can drop facing the side and rear armor.
The main down side is that the army does not preform as well when it cannot deep strike, but, that is a limitation I am willing to accept. It's a gamblers army, but I like that kind of playstyle, so I'll take the occasional loss due to bad scatters or the inability to deep strike for the ability to drop in 33 plasma guns that rapid fire the rest of the time.


Anyway, I'm sure you're tired of listening to me ramble, so here's the list:


The Kasway Wildcats (1850 Points) Model Count: 157
Doctrines:
Restricted Troops: Abhumans, Afriel Strain, Drop Troops, Close Order Drill, and Veterans.

Command Platoon:
Command Squad (86 Points)
Junior Officer with Boltgun, 4 Guardsmen with Plasma Guns.

Hardened Veterans:
4 Veterans with Lasgun, 3 Veterans with Plasma Gun, 1 Veteran with Missile Launcher. Veteran Sergeant has Boltgun. (128 Points)

Hardened Veterans:
4 Veterans with Lasgun, 3 Veterans with Plasma Gun, 1 Veteran with Missile Launcher. Veteran Sergeant has Boltgun. (128 Points)

Hardened Veterans:
4 Veterans with Lasgun, 3 Veterans with Plasma Gun, 1 Veteran with Missile Launcher. Veteran Sergeant has Boltgun. (128 Points)

Infantry Platoon:
Command Squad (86 Points)
Junior Officer with Boltgun, 4 Guardmen with Plasma Guns.
Infantry Squad (97 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Meltagun, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.
Infantry Squad (93 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Flamer, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.

Infantry Platoon:
Command Squad (86 Points)
Junior Officer with Boltgun, 4 Guardmen with Plasma Guns.
Infantry Squad (97 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Meltagun, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.
Infantry Squad (93 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Flamer, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.

Infantry Platoon:
Command Squad (86 Points)
Junior Officer with Boltgun, 4 Guardmen with Plasma Guns.
Infantry Squad (97 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Meltagun, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.
Infantry Squad (93 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Flamer, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.

Infantry Platoon:
Command Squad (86 Points)
Junior Officer with Boltgun, 4 Guardmen with Plasma Guns.
Infantry Squad (97 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Meltagun, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.
Infantry Squad (93 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Flamer, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.

Infantry Platoon:
Command Squad (86 Points)
Junior Officer with Boltgun, 4 Guardmen with Plasma Guns.
Infantry Squad (97 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Meltagun, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.
Infantry Squad (93 Points)
7 Guardmen with Lasgun, 1 Guardmen with Flamer, 1 with Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun.



Let me know what you think.

Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Salt Lake City, Utah

Anything, guys?

Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.  
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Cherry Hill, NJ

I like the list but i have a few questions/comments.

Firstly as a guard player my playstyle is abit backwards compared to most guard armies, I tend to run with a group of combat ready squads (It sounds ironc I know), and then a shooty section consisting mostly of tanks, special weapons squads, and HQs with plasma guns. The reason I would say this is backwards, is because my combat squads are not ment to be speedbumps, they can and do, on ocasion, win the combat they are in, with that being said they are expensive units, and that is not necessarily how people run guard around here.

However, I did want to say, it looks like a good list, body count is high, 145 models if my math is correct. You know, you can add a medic to a command squad and that can save you your first overheat, but in this list it may not matter, because I think that if the dropping models get into rapid fire range they are only going to have one round of shooting, in which case you may just want the extra shots.

You use alot of missle launchers, and I myself cant see the point of taking missle launchers, in an anti-light veichle roll, the auto cannons 2 shots go further than the missle launchers one, and in an anti-troop roll heavy bolters do the job better for less points, in my estimation. If you are worried about armor, turn one of your vet squads into a melta squad and use them to go tank hunting.

Why the flame throwers in the squads, Im just wondering at your logic, is it a points thing or incase a hoard army charges you. Conversly I dont know why you take meltaguns in some infantry squads when you are just sitting there with them waiting to be charged, a plasma gun would give you more shots in more turns. Or is your stratigy different with these squads?

Also Im goinig to pass along something that HMBC suggested to me much time ago and I have used with remarkable results. I noticed you dont take tanks so mabe this is not for you but I play a list with 2 leman russ demolishers with hull and spontoonmounted heavy bolters, and the amount of firepower required to take that tank out of the game is immense. You can loose 2 weapons and it still functions as a troop killer. It is point for point the best tank I have ever played with.

However I, personally, couldnt deal with taking afrael strain, my troops get slaughtered as it is in combat, why on earth would I want to make the slaughter worse. t3 is bad enough, now Im letting people hit me on 3+. I cant see an infantry platoon living past the charge, barring severe good luck, but if you avoid the charge, thats not a problem is it? I think it is an intresting list, and I would love to see it in action.




 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

I run a similar IG army to this and you have some good points in your opening statement. ATSKNF is brilliant on IG, but is it legal for tournies?

Also, drop the extra bodies in the vet squads, they arent needed. Those squads drop, kill something and then die, just like the command squads (which is why the extra P.Gun is better than a medic, these guys dont survive long and need to put out maximum firepower). The extra bodies in the vet squads are wasted points, unless you plan on setting them up on board, in which case you will need the extra wounds. If you drop them, drop the heavy weapon and the extra bodies.

the command squads are good. but you may want to throw a melta gun in there, that way you have anti tank punch, instakill potential and you only lose one plasma shot.

I would ditch the melta guns in the infantry squads in favor of more palsma guns. they have a better range and compliment the missle launchers better.

I agree with Elnicko, the ML's may be a bad choice. a lascannon or auto cannon may be a better choice.

I think that in any non alpha mission this army will rock the socks off of most MEQ armies that don't include a mystic. just pray to the scatter dice gods before your games.

my last suggestion: Make movement trays for dropping squads if you plan on playing in tournies. moving that many models will be a major time restriction. The drop squads tend to drop and die, so might as well magnetize them and make it easy to drop em an dpick em right back up.

   
Made in se
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Swerike

However I, personally, couldnt deal with taking afrael strain, my troops get slaughtered as it is in combat, why on earth would I want to make the slaughter worse. t3 is bad enough, now Im letting people hit me on 3+.

Tell me, what enemy assault troops have a WS worse than 4(and dosent already hit you on 3+)?

In my mind the Afriel Strain doctrine has no drawback, and ATSKNF is perfect for a shooty guard list.

I´ve never played 100% dropping I.G, but when I did drop the squads were the 1 hit wonders like demolition charge specials and 3 meltagun vet squads. I think a list with 25% dropping 75% shooty would work better as getting deep strike is not guaranteed.


With the galaxy as large as it is the odds of the average guardsmen seeing and fighting a marine or MEQ are relatively slim. Unfortunately the guardsmen in your (and anyone else who plays IG's) army are the REALLY, REALLY LUCKY ones that fight marines ALL the time... 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Salt Lake City, Utah

Hey, cool, finally got some feedback. Thanks, guys.


However, I did want to say, it looks like a good list, body count is high, 145 models if my math is correct.

157 actually. Which was cool, because it was never my intention to make the army huge, just effective. Being huge was just a nice bonus.


Why the flame throwers in the squads, Im just wondering at your logic, is it a points thing or incase a hoard army charges you. Conversly I dont know why you take meltaguns in some infantry squads when you are just sitting there with them waiting to be charged, a plasma gun would give you more shots in more turns. Or is your stratigy different with these squads?


The main line weapon is the missile launcher, which I like because it kills marines just as well as a lascannon, but ten points cheaper. The second line has flamers, so that they can move up and use them when enemy squads are caught out in the open after killing a squad in the front line in HTH combat. (picket line defense) The front squads have meltaguns, really as a backup weapon, because there are situations where I'll drop everything, and because I will bump into the occasional Land Raider, which is no fun to deal with using missile launchers. So, the meltaguns are there just to give me a more diverse arsenal to work with.

You use alot of missle launchers, and I myself cant see the point of taking missle launchers, in an anti-light veichle roll, the auto cannons 2 shots go further than the missle launchers one, and in an anti-troop roll heavy bolters do the job better for less points, in my estimation. If you are worried about armor, turn one of your vet squads into a melta squad and use them to go tank hunting.


Missile Launchers have a MEQ kill of .41, while Heavy Bolters have a MEQ kill of .3, and cannot tank hunt like missile launchers can.
Keep in mind that any time I'm fighting non-MEQ's, my hundreds of Lasguns are going to be much more effective, so I can fill most of my heavy and special weapons slots with anti-marine weapons, because my lasguns are going to do a lot more killing against everything else.
However, I think your idea of giving a command squad 4 meltaguns is good one I'll have to try out. It would be a good way to differentiate my command HQ.

Also, drop the extra bodies in the vet squads, they arent needed. The extra bodies in the vet squads are wasted points, unless you plan on setting them up on board, in which case you will need the extra wounds. If you drop them, drop the heavy weapon and the extra bodies.


I think that's a good point. The Vets are designed to be flexible, since they can infiltrate, deep strike, or deploy normally. Because of this, they need to be larger sized, so I'm trading a optimization for flexability.

I do like the redundancy of your list though. Wipe one sqd and there's plenty more that do the same thing.


Yeah, that really frustrates the heck out of my opponants. One guy said it was like that one level on Warcraft where you start out with hundreds of sheep on the field, and you just hack and hack and hack but there always seems to be another three approaching you.


However I, personally, couldnt deal with taking afrael strain, my troops get slaughtered as it is in combat, why on earth would I want to make the slaughter worse. t3 is bad enough, now Im letting people hit me on 3+. I cant see an infantry platoon living past the charge,


Like Banesword said, usually everyone else already hits me on a 3+, so it really onyl affects Tau and other Guard, neither of which I'd want to charge anyway.
As far as getting slaughtered in HTH, I WANT to get slaughtered in HTH. One of the best things about guard is that they die so quickly in HTH combat that your average assault unit from any other army will kill it three times over when it charges.
That is good.
Because, that means, as long as you have spaced yourself well, that assault unit will not be able to consolidate into another unit, and you can rapid fire the crap out of that stranded unit (and move up units to use their flamers) on your following turn.
Remember, the trick to playing shooty guard is not the shooting phase, it is controlling the assault phase, or, more precisely, controlling when the hth combat ends. You want it to end on your opponant's turn, and not yours, which means you want your units to either fold immeadiatly in HTH combat, or last three rounds so that they'll end on your opponants following HTH phase. (The latter usually requires throwing in more units to draw out the combat.)

I run a similar IG army to this and you have some good points in your opening statement. ATSKNF is brilliant on IG, but is it legal for tournies?

Issue 302. It's a chapter approved article, so it doesn't require consent and can be used at tournaments.

my last suggestion: Make movement trays for dropping squads if you plan on playing in tournies. moving that many models will be a major time restriction. The drop squads tend to drop and die, so might as well magnetize them and make it easy to drop em an dpick em right back up.

That's a very good idea. I think I'll do that.


Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.  
   
 
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