Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.

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**JakeSiren**

gwarsh41 wrote:
Stereotypical internet bickering and miscommunication aside for a moment...

I wont be surprised if we don't get any legitimate new models. We're an older chapter (the very first codex ever lol) and already have a great deal of awesome (opinion) and unique models for our range. A Primaris upgrade sprue, if we all click our heals and dream of wolves, maybe even a hint at leman russ's return.

I am 100% most curious about the chapter tactics. SW used to be decently punchy, but not like BA or Khorne. Grey hunters have almost always been the peak of space marine troops in each edition they have been in. I very much hope that continues, mostly because I have 50 of them.

All that aside, the burning question on all our minds....

Will drop pods ever be useful again?!?!?

Oh lord I hope so. Allow drop pods to put down dreads and they immediately become useful again IMO. Also allowing pods to ignore T1 beta rule restriction would be nice.

**SHUPPET**

Weazel wrote:
Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?

Thank you, this should be the most exciting time of the edition for us with information leaking, and some people here are too busy downplaying the dex before it even drops.

**BrianDavion**

Weazel wrote:
Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?

Wulfen dread is probably not even a new kit, you could use the Murderfang face and put either frost claws or shield+axe on him and call it done. I love the dreadnought kit and if I can make it a total assault beast by making it Wulfen I'm not going to complain.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and from what I can see, the SW upgrade sprue is just a single chainsword and no power weapons? That is really a damn shame.

if the wulfen dread is basicly just a dread with some special rules I'll be totally happy if it can take the shield. presumably a wulfen dread will have some close combat buffs after asll

**Northern85Star**

If it cant take the shield but just has a +5 FNP like Björn, then i suspect it will be bad, not being a character. Björn is already pretty fragile if he isnt screened. Then again, it all depends on pts cost.

**Neophyte2012**

Northern85Star wrote:
If it cant take the shield but just has a +5 FNP like Björn, then i suspect it will be bad, not being a character. Björn is already pretty fragile if he isnt screened. Then again, it all depends on pts cost.

Blahahaha, in this edition GW tends to give marine cool looking stuffs an ridiculously overcosted prices for what they can do on the tabletop, look at Land Raiders, Wolf Guard Terminators, Redemptor Dreads and Space Marine Centurions, so expect that Wuflen Dread being T7 Sv3+ 8W 5+FnP no inv and costs 300+pts.

Blahahahaha.

However, if it is reasonably costed for what they do. I won't wait to purchase it as my 5th Space Wolves specific Dreadnought.

**ArmchairArbiter**

Hrm... I am waiting for the full release until I cast judgement.

I just wanted to add my two cents about the "wulfen" dread. Perhaps that will just be the new version of our sword and board dread, but make him faster because he is a wulfen along with some extra new rules?

It allows Games Workshop to give us a special dreadnought that isn't a character instead of just giving a generic Venerable Dread a sword/board combo. I am hoping it moves 9" or something and can advance & charge. That will make it worth it in my book.

**Ragnar69**

My guess: Wulfen dread simply replaces the Murderfang datasheet using the same model. Will no longer be a character but might get Curse of the Wulfen buff aura and the other Wulfen rules (strike again when killed, re-roll charges, 5 +FNP). And we will be really lucky if we can get other weapons than Murderfangs claws. Board'n'Axe MAYBE.

**ArmchairArbiter**

Ragnar69 wrote:
My guess: Wulfen dread simply replaces the Murderfang datasheet using the same model. Will no longer be a character but might get Curse of the Wulfen buff aura and the other Wulfen rules (strike again when killed, re-roll charges, 5 +FNP). And we will be really lucky if we can get other weapons than Murderfangs claws. Board'n'Axe MAYBE.

Don't squash my one hope. lol! A fast moving sword/board wulfen dreadnought would be pretty sweet!

In my head, it would let us use the Venerable dread for what it's meant to be. A steadier firing platform for guns.

**Northern85Star**

Best scenario would be for it to replace the venerable sword and board dread, but would GW make that model obsolete? I doubt it, there is no money in doing so. I think the wulfen dread will have a much higher dmg output, faster moving - at the small price of dying before it gets there

**ArmchairArbiter**

Northern85Star wrote:
Best scenario would be for it to replace the venerable sword and board dread, but would GW make that model obsolete? I doubt it, there is no money in doing so. I think the wulfen dread will have a much higher dmg output, faster moving - at the small price of dying before it gets there

I assume they would just apply the datasheet of the sword and board dread to the Wulfen dread. Upon reflection I think people may be right about our character dread just being replaced by the wulfen dread.

So... it looks like I will have to recreate the thread this weekend. It all goes up for sale this weekend. Natfka says it's being released... not just a preorder period? The prices look fairly reasonable/good.

What does everyone think of the new dice we're getting? Or the additional 3 psychic powers we'll get? Just reformatted 7th ones?

**Northern85Star**

Very poor design choice on the dices. Imagine rolling ten of those, you will have to get used to them to figure the result quickly. I see a side with a skull and one with a wolf, will you have to agree with your opponent which one is 1 and which is 6 beforehand? XD

**ArmchairArbiter**

Northern85Star wrote:
Very poor design choice on the dices. Imagine rolling ten of those, you will have to get used to them to figure the result quickly. I see a side with a skull and one with a wolf, will you have to agree with your opponent which one is 1 and which is 6 beforehand? XD

Hah, that's funny because I liked them. They look a lot easier to read than the Blood Angel dice and have the same kind of style with deciding between what's a 1 and what's a 6. For Games Workshop dice they aren't toobad.

**meleti**

SHUPPET wrote:
Weazel wrote:
Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?

Thank you, this should be the most exciting time of the edition for us with information leaking, and some people here are too busy downplaying the dex before it even drops.

I’m not downplaying anything, I just don’t want somebody walking in here and thinking that a rule is confirmed when we don’t really know what’s up yet. I’m personally pretty optimistic about this codex.

On the Wulfen Dread, my hope is that it can advance and charge and re-rolls charges. That would make it a nice compliment to the slower Blizz Dreads.

**SHUPPET**

meleti wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:
Weazel wrote:
Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?

Thank you, this should be the most exciting time of the edition for us with information leaking, and some people here are too busy downplaying the dex before it even drops.

I’m not downplaying anything, I just don’t want somebody walking in here and thinking that a rule is confirmed when we don’t really know what’s up yet. I’m personally pretty optimistic about this codex.

On the Wulfen Dread, my hope is that it can advance and charge and re-rolls charges. That would make it a nice compliment to the slower Blizz Dreads.

I meant more ShinyMarine and maybe one other

Automatically Appended Next Post:
anyone know where I can keep up with the rumors for the dex?

**BrianDavion**

Changing the subject slightly, I discovered earlier today well putting together some Primaris Marines, that the collar leaves eneugh room to put the wolf head helmet that you get on the SW upgrade sprue and SW pack box.
thought I'd mention it in case anyone was considering snagging tooth and claw but wanted to wolf out the primaris a bit more

**meleti**

SHUPPET wrote:

anyone know where I can keep up with the rumors for the dex?

I haven’t heard any yet. Saw this on B&C though:

Not really new, but maybe confirmation that WGPL is a box set exclusive.

**BrianDavion**

meleti wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:

anyone know where I can keep up with the rumors for the dex?

I haven’t heard any yet. Saw this on B&C though:

Not really new, but maybe confirmation that WGPL is a box set exclusive.

I'm assuming it is. A bit annoying, Blood and Dark angels get their Lt seperately, we have to buy ours in a box, not a huge issue though, if you're using primaris Marines the stuff in the box is pretty iconic,

**phydaux**

BrianDavion wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Faction wide rules? you seriously trying to tell me that is what you have stated above get real and stop trying to be a jerk!

we're not we're just tempering expectations. the absolute WORST thing you can do is drive yur expectations up insanely high and then get dissappointed because you mearly got "very good"

My wife does this in every area of her life. she jacks her expectations through the roof over every little thing, so that nothing can ever be good enough, and she lives in a constant state of disappointment.

**BrianDavion**

phydaux wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Faction wide rules? you seriously trying to tell me that is what you have stated above get real and stop trying to be a jerk!

we're not we're just tempering expectations. the absolute WORST thing you can do is drive yur expectations up insanely high and then get dissappointed because you mearly got "very good"

My wife does this in every area of her life. she jacks her expectations through the roof over every little thing, so that nothing can ever be good enough, and she lives in a constant state of disappointment.

I can belive it, some people are like that, I had friends like that, every new video game was gonna be awesome, every FPS was gonna be the best ever, every new MMO was going to be the "WoW killer" etc.

the result was what you'd expect

**jcd386**

I want SW to be good, but can't really see how it could happen at their current prices, which are for the most part consistant with other Marines, so I don't think they'll get much lower. We don't have scout troops, which means our battillions are going to be full of 13 point Marines. This doesn't work for any other Marine chapter, and I don't think free chainswords are going to be enough to tip the balance.

**Weazel**

jcd386 wrote:
I want SW to be good, but can't really see how it could happen at their current prices, which are for the most part consistant with other Marines, so I don't think they'll get much lower. We don't have scout troops, which means our battillions are going to be full of 13 point Marines. This doesn't work for any other Marine chapter, and I don't think free chainswords are going to be enough to tip the balance.

Well you know the drill, 180pts for an IG battalion, +5cp. Wolves are pretty much a forward force anyway so the IG guys are pretty good at keeping home objectives. It sucks to be more or less forced into soup but that's how the cookie crumbles.

**Northern85Star**

One thing is for sure: we will become better.

**BrianDavion**

Northern85Star wrote:
One thing is for sure: we will become better.

I dunno they could give space wolves crap strats, relics and chapter tacs well increasing prices across the board

but yeah proably will become better

**Kdash**

BrianDavion wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
One thing is for sure: we will become better.

I dunno they could give space wolves crap strats, relics and chapter tacs well increasing prices across the board

but yeah proably will become better

The strats are going to be the main focus for me, as a non-SW player.

This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.

However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.

**SHUPPET**

Kdash wrote:

This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.

However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.

It wouldn't necessarily mean either of those things. They could have better stratagems just because they think the army needs it more, or they thought of more creative interactions, or just wanted to deliver abilities thematic to the army.

They could also do the copy paste not meaning they think SM strats are perfect, but just to keep to the precedent they've set for them this edition.

**BrianDavion**

SHUPPET wrote:
Kdash wrote:

This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.

However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.

It wouldn't necessarily mean either of those things. They could have better stratagems just because they think the army needs it more, or they thought of more creative interactions, or just wanted to deliver abilities thematic to the army.

They could also do the copy paste not meaning they think SM strats are perfect, but just to keep to the precedent they've set for them this edition.

this, it's clear to me that GW wants to avoid the "Space Marines +1" problem that was endemic to other editions various Marine codices. Hence why when codex Space Marines came out they where fairly clear that "the new points costs for Inceptor squads are something EVERYONE can use" etc

**Kdash**

BrianDavion wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:
Kdash wrote:

This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.

However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.

It wouldn't necessarily mean either of those things. They could have better stratagems just because they think the army needs it more, or they thought of more creative interactions, or just wanted to deliver abilities thematic to the army.

They could also do the copy paste not meaning they think SM strats are perfect, but just to keep to the precedent they've set for them this edition.

this, it's clear to me that GW wants to avoid the "Space Marines +1" problem that was endemic to other editions various Marine codices. Hence why when codex Space Marines came out they where fairly clear that "the new points costs for Inceptor squads are something EVERYONE can use" etc

I agree somewhat that they need to try and keep Vanilla, BA, DA and SW on a similar footing, but, I also think that this is one of the few opportunities they have to introduce change. They may of course just wait for Chapter Approved or the next big FAQ, but that’d then involve a re-print of a (by then) newish codex with the updates.

To me, it’d be the logical way to introduce a change, but, yeah, logic and GW don’t always go hand in hand when it comes to making things easy for the players.

**SHUPPET**

Well they may just do any of these things. I'm just saying don't look too far into it, or think it means anything at all concerning design plans for power armour as a whole, because there's no way of knowing what influences their design here.

**lindsay40k**

Neophyte2012 wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Think you guys missed the wolves might be the 1st fixed chapter with chapter/codex wide traits.
Thats a big step in the right direction and will probably mean a chapter approved fix for the other chapters.

If the Wolves CT is about combat like getting counter attack / heroic intervention for everyone or ferious charge equvilant things, then they are meaningless for SW non dread vehicles anyway because those vehicles want to shoot and not combat. However, it would mean a lot for other Space Marine Chapters with other CT that buffs not just combat, especially the Ultramarine, Salamander, Ravenguard, and maybe Dark Angels.

On the other hand. If the GW just copy paste "only infantry, biker and Dreadnought get the Chapter Tactic" it would be very ridiculous as a rule because it excludes the famous Thurnder Wolf Cavalry.

I main CSM and all of my mounted characters lack Legion traits due to it likewise being infantry, biker, Helbrute only. Buuuut they’re Index units that GW don’t fully support with rules and haven’t made models for in a good decade, whereas the similar ommission of Legion trait for the well supported Daemon Prince was faq’d. Soooo the SW cavalry unit, being something of a flagship plastic kit, is *probably* going to get included in the Chapter trait list. Fingers crossed for y’all.

**BrianDavion**

lindsay40k wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Think you guys missed the wolves might be the 1st fixed chapter with chapter/codex wide traits.
Thats a big step in the right direction and will probably mean a chapter approved fix for the other chapters.

If the Wolves CT is about combat like getting counter attack / heroic intervention for everyone or ferious charge equvilant things, then they are meaningless for SW non dread vehicles anyway because those vehicles want to shoot and not combat. However, it would mean a lot for other Space Marine Chapters with other CT that buffs not just combat, especially the Ultramarine, Salamander, Ravenguard, and maybe Dark Angels.

On the other hand. If the GW just copy paste "only infantry, biker and Dreadnought get the Chapter Tactic" it would be very ridiculous as a rule because it excludes the famous Thurnder Wolf Cavalry.

I main CSM and all of my mounted characters lack Legion traits due to it likewise being infantry, biker, Helbrute only. Buuuut they’re Index units that GW don’t fully support with rules and haven’t made models for in a good decade, whereas the similar ommission of Legion trait for the well supported Daemon Prince was faq’d. Soooo the SW cavalry unit, being something of a flagship plastic kit, is *probably* going to get included in the Chapter trait list. Fingers crossed for y’all.

It would be simple eneugh to add in "this chapter tactic applies to all infantry, Bikes, dreadnoughts and Cavalry"