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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Salt donkey wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Tabletop titans just had a game using a Terminus Est list. Adrian took too many pox walkers and it ended up putting him at a disadvantage because Brian then took the Thin their ranks secondary and easily maxed out on that.

But those deep striking plague marines were good! A min 5 man squad with a flail is surprisingly effective in many situations. I think a Terminus Est list with enough terminators, 50 to 60 pox walkers and 3 min PM squads will be pretty a pretty lean and mean list.


Word of warning, tabletop titans should not be considered a competitive 40k resource. Their goal has been clearly been to cram out as much content as quickly as possible with as many armies as possible. They still work their day jobs, and have been focusing on video quality and viewer engagement.

Why I bring this all up is all this requires that something else is given up, and to me that something is actual gameplay. None of their armies have been top tier competitive for a while (or at all competitive). Some of this is intentional, but I think their lists are worse than even they think they are.

The bigger problem they have is rules mistakes. From constant codex errors (since they play so many armies) to just general mistakes, there hasn’t been case I’ve seen recently where chat hasn’t had to correct the guys at least 5-10 times a game, and sometimes it’s more like 15-20 (if are looking at any errors they make.

Case in point the BR you are referencing has the objectives 3 inches closer to Brian’s Deployment zone than Adrians. That allowed Brian to take objectives in a way that prevented Adrain from even contesting without killing Brian’s custodes first. This one error probably increased Brian’s win percentage by 20-30% as it gave him an easy way to win the primary, which would have been Adrian’s win condition. I’d also say that Adrain’s list would still be better if he dropped the PM for terminators, but I think he wanted to show off deep-striking PMs.

This is a long way to say I don’t evaluate this BR as being at all relevant at gauging the strengths and weaknesses of the terminus Est strike force.


I don't think anyone watches them for "competitive WAAC lists"; I sure as hell don't. They have won tournaments in the past and/or got to top tables. I don't think they are any more wrong about what's top tier than anybody else right now.

Their messing up the rules can be kind of annoying but at least chat corrects them and they do listen to chat.

I personally don't see lots of "competitive" 40k batrep channels out. Perhaps maybe because of the world wide lock down all people can do is theorycraft. I mean, 99% of the information coming from the Tactics forum on Dakka is theory crafting. Well, maybe 80% but sure as gak there are far fewer people actually playing 40k outside of TTS than there was pre-Covid. And TTS is, IMO, even less of a metric than actual tabletop gaming but I digress.

Tabletop Titans is probably my favorite 40k batrep channel to watch on YT. Vanguard Tactics and Tabletop Tactics aren't cranking out what I call power lists either.

I love the fact they are investing heavily in their channel. New 4k streaming, new studio, better lighting. Sure they still have some sound issues but that's going to happen when you drop that kind of cash on new equipment and have to learn it.

Adrian especially shows enthusiasm for new armies. Some channels are painful to watch because the players either speak in monotones or the camera work just plain sucks. If I want tactics advice I come here; if I want to get my 40k game fix I watch batreps on youtube. I'm not worried about watching the sickest lists. Back in 8th edition any batrep involving Tau bored the gak out of me because only one Tau list worked and it was obvious what the outcome was going to be as soon as I saw the list. At least now with armies not fully optimized yet (I don't even think there is a "one list to rule them all" for Necrons yet) and new armies recently (DW and Drukhari) at least the batreps are fresh and fun to watch.
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well, they can charge their transports into combat to negate our overwatch. Don't forget that. And in the end, you can only use the overwatch strategem on one unit, if there are multiple charges you can't overwatch all of them. And given their speed, there will likely be multiple charges happening.

I think its good to have a balance. Say we managed to pop a transport. Blightlords have the dakka to take out what is in the transport at range while the flamers on deathshroud will likely be too far away.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




This will be last reply about BR channels, as I don’t want to continue to derail this thread. By in large I don’t think you should trust any channel fully, as all have biases and problems. My personal favorite is Art of war, since they have multiple players on their and all of the them have had multiple tournament successes (2 different people have won LVO, and all have won multiple majors). They have an issue of locking a lot of their content behind a paywall, and their production quality is much worse than TTT, but as far as competitiveness goes, I give them the edge. Like I said I still don’t trust their viewpoint fully and think they have a white scar bias do you John Lennon doing well with them in their local meta.





   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





I do watch Art of War as well too. They are good. Basically for me, its about watching relevant battle reports. Tabletop titans happened to feature a Terminus Est list battle report, so I watched it to see how such a list played on the tabletop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/30 03:59:53


 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





the best "competitive factory" is play your own tournaments, you learn more playing 1 single tournament than watch 10 wh40 channels, sadly now tournaments are pretty rare

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Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

I agree, personal experience is by and far the most important.

TTT do have great quality, but they are absolutely not using top lists. I agree too many people put more weight than is deserved onto their games (in respect to the competitive meta).

After their Terminus Ex bat rep, I heard lots of people online and at my local shop say its not that good, and listed this batrep as an example.
Which is not fair, because A) The lists were not built to be as strong as possible B) Rules were played wrong C) God his psychic phase was unnaturally bad. Like he might as well not even had a psychic phase it was so useless. Such sad rolls. D)He literally just got the book, was super clear he was not comfortable with the rules/strategies.

Eitherway I wont dismiss Terminus Ex until I have a chance to try it out myself.

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine.

"Be aware that the 'I buy models I like, and then discover that they're absolutely useless and I need to toss them and buy something completely different' is a core part of the 40k experience." - AnomanderRake

My hobby blog__ Hell Raised Regiment Three - Link in Bio
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Terminus Est will be strong but the restrictions are so heavy-handed that you need a very specific model collection to make the very specific lists that will work well with it.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The dudes at Vanguard Tactics claimed to have played around 30 games in the past week with the new Drukhari and every game they learn something new.

I don't think anyone will ever claim Terminus Est top tier and while channels like TTT aren't pumping out WAAC lists with every battle report I think they would honestly lose viewership if every battle report was on the level of a cutthroat tournament.

They, and others (I've recently started watching Glasshammer's YT channel), provide me with 2.5-3 hours of tabletop content. I've never built armies around what's the best list and I never will. I watch batreps for entertainment, not education. I'll get all the education I need when in-person events begin again and I can play an actual game.

I have everything required to play a Terminus Est list (well, everything but the Book of Rust supplement) and I'll be for sure playing a TE force at least once, just for laughs. I don't expect to win with it but if I have fun that IMO is most important.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Playing a friendly game vs drukhari tomorrow, he wants to test the new codex and knows my army inside out whereas I really don't know what to expect. It means I don't feel too guilty tailoring my list. They're seems to be a lot of layers that I won't properly get my head around until I see it in action.

I'm thinking apart from the usual suspects of DS terms, pox, volkite Contemptor and Tallyman:

FBS with vats? I usually run him anyway but he is best when receiving charges and drukhari seem to like being on the front foot.

HBL Drone and GBD? I figure the mobility and S6/7 weaponry will help taking out transports at range and more being overwhelmed on board control.

Possessed? I haven't used them yet this edition tbh. Lots of 1D attacks to tear through puny elfs. Reasonably durable although I guess the T5 is moot with poison.

Couple of PBCs? Obviously to hit transports and to attract all those dark lances away from my Terminators.

If I can fit them in I might take some BLTs too, combi bolters seem useful against T3 squishies maybe a Reaper Autocannon?

Should I leave the plague marines at home since they are probably gonna die a little too easy...?

   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





i would play 2x PBC and a volkite contemptor, you need to handle their transport, they are fragile when outside transports, perhaps 6-7 blighlords and 2x3 or 3x3 deathshouds full flamers, no PM play poxwalkers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/30 20:59:14


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Longtime Dakkanaut





Had a close game with Drukhari today. Lost by 12 points (85 to 73). It was my first game against the new 9th ed codex Drukhari and wow, what a blood bath it was. The thing I love about DG is that its so hard to wipe out DG, so there is always something to play for, right up to turn 5.

He went first and flew up the board. I kind of wiffed in my shooting on turn 1, I took out 3 transports, but left 1 transports on 1 wound! And it took all of my shooting, so I didn't have any shooting left to go into the troops that got out of the transports. He did a really smart play. his transport was so fast it managed to charge a unit of my pox walkers in my deployment zone to prevent them from spreading the sickness. But he failed to kill that unit of 20, and I managed to rez back 7 pox walkers onto a midpoint objective. So, it prevented him from getting that.

Turn 2 was just epic. he move advanced almost everything forward and made multiple charges at me. He wiped my 20 pox walkers, a unit of 3 deathshroud, a blightspawn, and killed 3 chaos spawn. The thing is because I kind of stuck in one big blob, it wasn't easy for his whole army to get to me.

So my turn 2, I struck back with my whole army and took out Drazhar, a Succubus, a wyches unit, 10 reavers, a couple of Hellions. and a unit of Incubi,

Turn 3, He kept piling on the pressure. Killed my Malignant plaguecastor, my Contempter dreadnaught, a plague marine squad. My turn, I killed a wrack squad, two incubi units, an archon, the rest of his Hellion squad. We were just throwing punches at each other in a huge slugfest!

We then kind of talked through turn 4 and 5 because of time constraints. But there wasn't much left seriously. By turn 5 end, he would have maybe one vehicle left (assuming 2 turns of 2 PBC shooting kills one), and one incubi squad and one wrack squad, and one master succubus left on the left side of the board, and far away from my units on the right side which would be 2 PBCs, a large block of 9 Blightlords, Typhus, Tallyman, and one unit of pox walkers.

Because from turn 1, his army surged forward and covered like 4 out of 6 objectives, and he kept the pressure on. He maxed out on Primaries ) (while I could only get 35). We were quite close on secondaries (30 to 28). I might have done much better if I had picked assassinate rather than engage on all fronts (only scored 4 for that). Got 15 for grind them down and 9 VP on spread the sickness.

Anyway, it was an absolute blood bath and a super fun game and I loved it. Lost the game because of some of my own mistakes to a good Drukhari player. So I ain't even mad.

I really like DG. Plays like the fluff described in the books and like I said before. Because we are so hard to kill, there is always a game all the way up to turn 5.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/01 01:27:19


 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





ty for report....which list did you play?

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Longtime Dakkanaut





 blackmage wrote:
ty for report....which list did you play?


Plague company: Mortarion's Chosen

HQ: Typhus, Malignant plague castor.
Troops: 5 basic PM, 19 poxwalkers, 10 poxwalkers
Elite: Tallyman (tollkeeper), Foul Blightspawn (Vomitryx), 10 Blightlords (2 reapers. 2 flails), 2x3 deathshrounds, 1 Volkite Contemptor dreadnaught.
Fast Attack: 5 chaos spawn.
Heavy Support: 2 PBC (entropy cannons).

I took Mortarion's Chosen sons because of the relic flamer. It was deadly, and he made sure to take out my Foul Blightspawn on turn 2 when his massed charges hit. The chaos spawn continued to do their job of absorbing fire and tanking hits. I had a unit of deathshroud, the 5 chaos spawn, with my foul blightspawn right behind them to give fight last. My 10 Blightlords were right behind them. Turns out Drukhari can give fight first, or make me fight last too ? So it all cancels out and reverts back to charger anyway. The first massed charge led by Drazhar and friends took out almost my entire front screen. Though 2 of the chaos spawn survived. The deathshroud were gone along with the blightspawn. I think the spawn only survived because he was focusing on killing off the deathshroud and blightspawn.

But because he couldn't reach my blightlord termi bloc and Typhus (screened out). I was able to throw back a huge counterpunch. I am not sure if Inexorable would have made a difference in this matchup. Because most of the time, he was on his invul saves, and his armor saves weren't great anyway. Anything my blightlord unit shot at died because of his paper thin armor and my high number of super accurate shots. Whatever I targeted and charged died, and similarly for him, whatever he charged into mostly died too. So we were really trading punches lol. Except he has quite a lot of units because many of his units are quite cheap.

The Volkite Contemptor was very good against Drukhari. First turn it did 7 wounds to a Raider. which really should have died except it rolled tons of saves like a boss. 2nd turn it killed 7 reaver jet bikes. He killed it on his turn 3, and he said in hindsight, given how deadly it is, he should have priororitised and killed it on turn 2. (He had enough dark lances to do it). Obscuring cover can only hide a dreadnaght for so long. Once it pokes it head out to kill something, it is in turn targettable as well. So, the Contemptor suffers from the problem of being a glass cannon. It dies easily. A good player knows how scary it is, and will make sure to kill it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/01 01:23:08


 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





i would prefer revolting stench vats anyway and viscous death pathgen on blightspawn, you get str8 and average 4 hits, for the rest the list is similar of some i played, just i prefer different plague companies and usually i get a batallion (or vanguard) and a patrol so i have 2 different plague company (inexorable/mortaion anvil in most cases), vs drukari -1 ap might be not a deal but i try to test lists versatile enough to face different lists. The contemptor is not made to be durable but might hit like a truck, is survive just 2 turns can deliver decent damage and cant be ignored in any way, save some heavy fire from ds/bl that let you play the mission, i tried a list with 2 contemptors so killed one the other keep wreak havocs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/01 02:34:35


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Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

Howdy folks! I am considering undoing a mistake and replacing my Death Guard that I sold years ago. I want another crack at fun modelling and painting opportunities, but I'm curious how they will hold up on the table.

I'm thinking about running a Morty-less, pure Marine list. Big DS, max BL, and triple max PM squads. Loads of nasty bodies shuffling across the table. Tons of bodies giving me lots to paint - thinking Putrid Choir, which would be Mortarion's Anvil.

Any thoughts on this? I'm at that early build stage and haven't had a chance to play the new edition because of the pandemic. So help is greatly appreciated!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/01 20:32:53


   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





PM are not the best, then most depend if you like play casual games or something more competitive.

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Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

Death Guard is good right now and will continue to be competitive in 9th as long as primary scoring is based on objectives!

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Howdy folks! I am considering undoing a mistake and replacing my Death Guard that I sold years ago. I want another crack at fun modelling and painting opportunities, but I'm curious how they will hold up on the table.

I'm thinking about running a Morty-less, pure Marine list. Big DS, max BL, and triple max PM squads. Loads of nasty bodies shuffling across the table. Tons of bodies giving me lots to paint - thinking Putrid Choir, which would be Mortarion's Anvil.

Any thoughts on this? I'm at that early build stage and haven't had a chance to play the new edition because of the pandemic. So help is greatly appreciated!


Yeh PMs aren't particularly exciting at the moment, I certainly wouldn't go heavy on them, maybe a couple of MSUs but I'd be more inclined to fill your troop slots with poxwalkers.

You can absolutely run DG as infantry heavy right now but I would lean into terminators a lot more than PMs. Both types of terminators are great but the deathshroud are just monsters and so much fun to play. You can build a strong core of terminators that just overrun the centre of the board with the right character support (FBS, BioP, even the surgeon if you feel you can keep enough within his influence to really get the most out of him)

The recent Charadon special rules are meant to boost an infantry DG army but I'm not sure how great a bonus it gives you (I haven't tried it yet) and I feel you give up on too much good stuff otherwise

   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





about PM's... this is only my personal opinion, if you like to run them, run a lot with lot of termies, that maybe is a decent way to play them.

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Yeah, if its just PM alone, they are not so good. But run them with enough terminators and they should be fine. Plus lets not forget about using cloud of flies on a big block of PM. So, you deploy such that the PM are an obvious "soft" target. And then you use cloud of flies for 2 CP, and the opponent now has to shoot your terminators and other stuff while he was probably positioned to shoot your PMs instead. It could totally mess up a shooting phase.

From the sounds of it, it sounds like he would like a terminus est list because he didn't mention any vehicles and he wants lots of terminators and PM.

Run one big block of PM with cloud of flies, start with tons of termi on the board. Then put the rest of the PM in deep strike along with maybe a 20 man pox walker squad. Swarm the board with bodies. Its probably won't win tournaments, but still very strong in 9th ed which is all about objectives.

Wow Drukari .., I just saw an art of war battle report. The Drukhari ran a list with only 1700+ points and still won a mean ultramarines list of 2000 points. (Both good players too).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/02 03:52:00


 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





intersting video about Terminus assault force by AoW Mark Perry, still not sure if will be competitive enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W580K489vwA

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/04 12:52:28


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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I’ve played enough practice games to think the morty warptime list is the best competitive build option for this army. We don’t struggle to deal damage once we get close, we struggle to get close. Warptime solves this problem, and you even get deathhex as an added option.

I kinda of knew this before, but now I can confidently say this is correct.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/05 00:07:00


 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hmmm, I dunno. I think more competitive lists are moving towards being able to inflict a fair amount of mortal wounds. And some just run tons of melta or the quivalent. Like a sisters of battle list with tons of melta, or I saw tabletop tactics featuring a Drukhari list with 15 dark lances.

Mortarion will crash into their lines with wraptime, kill one thing. and then high chance die to the massed melta or dark lance fire. Even if he doesn't die. Most of the sisters and drulhari stuff are so cheap even if he kills one unit, it won't do much to them. And then turn 2, the massed fire will definitely kill him.

Admech with their god of mars can inflict tons of mortal wounds, and deadly shooting too. They can probably kill Mortarion in 1 turn or 2.

Some armies are auto lose against a Mortarion list. They just don't have the tools to handle him. The armies that can kill him efficiently though, will be at an advantage against him because he simply can't hide. And I am pretty sure tournaments will see sisters of battle, admech and Drukhari lists. So, I see Mortarion lists as a skewed list. You will autowin against some lists, and you will start at a hefty disadvantage against other lists.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I’d recommend playing with the list before deciding if it’s good or not. Morty having warptime is actually the biggest durability buff he can get, since you are able to position him in ways which makes him harder to attack against, but where he can still be a threat. Also the nature of the warptime list is such that having morty be an expensive distraction carnifex is a lot less problematic, as you have more threats which are pressuring your opponent immediately.

Case in point I played sisters recently. In that game I was able to position morty in such a way that only 1 of my opponents retributer squads was able to shoot him, but I could still charge that unit with a warptime. Because of this Morty was a terror this game, being able to absorb a ton of of firepower while also killing 700-800 points. In games without warptime it’s very likely I would forced to play extremely cagey with morty and/or just expect him to die in a single turn. Even when comparing this list against others that don’t use morty at all, I felt like my chances of winning against my buddies sisters army improved dramatically when I was running this list (I won my last game ).

Also in regards to that Tabletop tactics video, just like I don’t think the titans video does a good job showing how competitive a terminous est list is, I don’t think this game does a good job showing how dark lances preform against us. A) Spider had a statically unusual amount of good luck vs bone. And B) Bone was running 3x defilers, and their made out of tissue paper. Mathhammer says an obsidian rose dark lance shot from a raider averages .66666 wounds on morty (ravangers have it worse since you can only re-roll 1 wound roll for ever 3 dark lances). This doesn’t even include a Potential -1 from miasma. Dark lances don’t scare us competitively, mortal wounds and CC is what’s scary.

So TLDR, I think there’s a night and day difference between using morty in a warptime list vs not using him in a warptime list.



   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





hmmm, so could you share your list?
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I think using Warptime Morty should push you towards Tj Lannigan land of Chaos Soup/Daemons. If you’re already giving up the -1t aura for not being pure Deathguard, I’m not sure there’s really a reason to select a lot of our units in a list that is trying to invest heavily in a threat like Mortarion. Things like forward deploying nurglings, immortal lord of changes, big beast of nurgle units, all of these units are amazing and would be taken in pure DG lists if it was possible.


Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




My current list is as follows.


++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [67 PL, 1,335pts, 6CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Plague Company: The Inexorable

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Decay [-1CP]: Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 95pts, -1CP]: Ferric Blight, Plague Skull of Glothila, Plaguechosen

+ Troops +

Poxwalkers [5 PL, 100pts]
. 20x Poxwalker: 20x Improvised weapon

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [10 PL, 200pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

Deathshroud Terminators [7 PL, 155pts]
. Deathshroud Champion: 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet

Deathshroud Terminators [7 PL, 155pts]
. Deathshroud Champion: 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 75pts, -1CP]: Plaguechosen, Revolting Stench-vats

Tallyman [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 135pts]: Fleshmower

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy slugger

++ Supreme Command Detachment +2CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [25 PL, 490pts, 2CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [2CP]

Plague Company: Mortarion's Chosen Sons

+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +

Mortarion [25 PL, 490pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 2. Gift of Contagion, 5. Curse of the Leper, Warlord

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [9 PL, 175pts, -2CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

Legion: Word Bearers

+ HQ +

Sorcerer [6 PL, 115pts]: Bolt pistol, Death Hex, Force sword, Jump pack, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Total: [101 PL, 2,000pts, 6CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe

For possible changes I’d say the 5 man blightlords are the closet unit I’d consider dropping. Either I’d keep the list as is, drop the blightlords for another 3 man deathshroud team and 10 poxwalkers, or drop the bightlords and the plaguecaster for 3 deathshroud a lord of virulence and some random upgrades. Leaning Towards what I have since. I own all the models for my current list and feel the 3rd deathshroud unit is a tad redundant (although I think DS are much better blightlords overall). I also don’t like having a second mower drone, as I’ve found the second to very unnecessary besides getting max on engage easier. Drones are fragile for their points so you need to pick their spot carefully,

Also you could spend more CP on relics and warlord traits. The only problem I have with this that this army is actually CP hungry due to the all the situational Strategems as well as the auto-pass, can’t be denied and chaos familiar stratagems from CSM (you use this on your malignant. plaguecaster) stratagem. Thankfully our good friend tallyman helps a lot with this issue, but CP is important here.

The other thing to note is this this type of list isn’t easy to master. You need to know a lot of situational stratagems and what spots they’re effective in. It takes a lot of time to memorize and learn all this, so I’d recommend lots of practice.
   
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 Brymm wrote:
I think using Warptime Morty should push you towards Tj Lannigan land of Chaos Soup/Daemons. If you’re already giving up the -1t aura for not being pure Deathguard, I’m not sure there’s really a reason to select a lot of our units in a list that is trying to invest heavily in a threat like Mortarion. Things like forward deploying nurglings, immortal lord of changes, big beast of nurgle units, all of these units are amazing and would be taken in pure DG lists if it was possible.



I agree with this. If we go soup Mortarion, then why not add in a Lord of Change, demons, and possibly a Magnus as well. The playstyle suits Mortarion so much more than the DG army which is usually left in the dust while Mortarion is mixing it up up close.
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Brymm wrote:
I think using Warptime Morty should push you towards Tj Lannigan land of Chaos Soup/Daemons. If you’re already giving up the -1t aura for not being pure Deathguard, I’m not sure there’s really a reason to select a lot of our units in a list that is trying to invest heavily in a threat like Mortarion. Things like forward deploying nurglings, immortal lord of changes, big beast of nurgle units, all of these units are amazing and would be taken in pure DG lists if it was possible.


Yeah been having fun with with a list like that.

Spoiler:
--Command
Morty

--TS Outrider
Ahriman
Exalted Sorcer

2x Contemptor with volkrite

3x 3-man Spawns

--Demon Patrol
Exalted LoC
Fluxmaster

2x 3-man nurgling

9x flamers

Against Dark Angels and Sisters with spammed multi-meltas, I usually lose either Morty or the ELoC but they usually can't handle both at the same time.

The Contemptors is ending up being a huge distraction carnifex as most opponents try to spend a turn to take them out. However, I just need a turn to get a warptimed Morty and/or ELoC in their back line. On turn 2, deepstriking flamers with fluxmaster causes all kinds of problems.

Access to Death Hex really makes this list sing.

However, the MVP in many of my games? The ELoC's Infernal Gateway power. Folks just don't really comprehend how effective that power is, especially against armies trying to bunch up together to maximize the various auras.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 17:11:33


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4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Eldenfirefly wrote:
 Brymm wrote:
I think using Warptime Morty should push you towards Tj Lannigan land of Chaos Soup/Daemons. If you’re already giving up the -1t aura for not being pure Deathguard, I’m not sure there’s really a reason to select a lot of our units in a list that is trying to invest heavily in a threat like Mortarion. Things like forward deploying nurglings, immortal lord of changes, big beast of nurgle units, all of these units are amazing and would be taken in pure DG lists if it was possible.



I agree with this. If we go soup Mortarion, then why not add in a Lord of Change, demons, and possibly a Magnus as well. The playstyle suits Mortarion so much more than the DG army which is usually left in the dust while Mortarion is mixing it up up close.


You certainly could make an argument that a TJ Lanigan style of build is the better option, but that debate comes down to a lot more than “Losing contagions means going all in on soup is better.” As an heads up, the style of list I’m using actually beat Lanigan in the tournament it debut in, although luck was a factor.

You have to understand that outside of the blightlords, this list is pretty optimized. You mention the rest of the DG list not being able to to catch up with morty, but the reality is warptime allows precisely that. I’ve actually ended up warptiming my drone a fair bit turn 1 and even have used it on my deathshroud as well. In fact the whole point of this build is you are countering DG natural slowness. It’s important to note that a lot DGs power comes from the natural strength of our units, not just the -1 T aura.

Lanigans list hits harder, but I fear with the advent of DE and sisters, Ithings like magnus and big bird are less effective.

Finally I’d rather play a more DG themed army than a monster mash soup list. Sure both lists are technically soup, but at least every unit in my army has a mark of nurgle.
   
 
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