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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 Crablezworth wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Man, Kirby was right.



Well apparently 12 of them fit on a plate for a bout 90 cents of resin so...

But really, no one wants something that small in 10 parts, especially with forge world doing the quality assurance. And it doesn't help that not a single consumer knows how many they actually need to buy to play them legally, add to that the cynical weapon distribution. Here in canada it's 90$ for two 28mm scale armigers, how in god's name 3 8mm one's could cost 62$ is beyond a vast majority of the potential market's head. Like even the 2018 AT group on facebook, which is usually very enforced positivy/the emperor has no clothes has several posts where everyone is agreeing or at least 8/10 that they just totally priced them out of the market. 9 armigers from forge world is nearly the msrp of a warmaster titan.

I think kirby is was only partially right, if gw upped the QA, stopped doing cynical weapon destruction and go back to including optional bits and priced on the side of sane, the market would gladly support that. A reality I think a lot of designers and manufacturers also may have to come to grips with is, some players just want the miniature, don't plan much posing or conversion and if the model is going to be fairly mono-pose anyway better it be fewer components than 10 pieces for something so small, it sadly is so much simpler to find someone with a 3d printer. It also hurts that they're making them so many pieces/components but still not throwing in arm/weapon options. Even the plastic questoris kit was a bit cynical in its weapon distribution but that became less of an issue with the supplementary sprue with ccw weapons/melta and missile launchers.

3d printing is still a pain in a lot of ways, the simpler an stl is the easier it is for anyone to print. I'm just as lazy as fw's QA, I don't really want to have to review every piece back from a printer to ensure its the right one and not warped/chipped/broken, so honestly the files with the fewest pieces/components sometimes seem more appealing for that reason. These little knights just so happen to be something that have actually been around in file form for some time AND just so happen to range from a few component files to like literal 1 piece prints. As I mentioned, someone in a group said it was 91 cents of resin for 12 of them on a single plate... that's 248$ in forge world land... somethings gotta give. The prob as always for gw is a lot of files are free and exist long before they decide to print legacy model x in a smaller scale. GW and FW aren't exactly helping to make kirby wrong, the iconoclast decision as an FU to third party part makers show they're choosing to just be bitter about it for now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lord Borak wrote:
Well, you can always 3D print them? I think mine worked out at 35p for 3...



Having said that though. I'm still going to buy the FW ones because I like them. and because, well, I must have one of everything.


The FW ones will likely look better than a lot of the prints out there of varying quality. AT least in forgeworld's case the moirax hasn't been widely seen in 8mm so I can see those selling more than the armigers.


I mean, it's FW, so you're gonna have to carve out and sculpt a bunch of the details on your own, so i wouldn't exactly say they will look better thanks to FW.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 Crablezworth wrote:
the iconoclast decision as an FU to third party part makers show they're choosing to just be bitter about it for now.


As an aside, a quick glance around uk online stores show plenty of iconoclasts in stock which is very unusual for Titanicus. If this turns out to be more than my anecdotal observation and the iconoclast has sold poorly, then hopefully this big blunder isn’t repeated for future releases
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 zedmeister wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
the iconoclast decision as an FU to third party part makers show they're choosing to just be bitter about it for now.


As an aside, a quick glance around uk online stores show plenty of iconoclasts in stock which is very unusual for Titanicus. If this turns out to be more than my anecdotal observation and the iconoclast has sold poorly, then hopefully this big blunder isn’t repeated for future releases


Ya, saw 5 in stock last time I got paint. The fluff for it in the traitors book reads like someone from marketing wrote it.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not really surprising the Iconoclast didn't sell well.

For games, we're talking about a huge titan known for its slowness and difficulty to manoeuver while being meant for close-combat. Not talking about the fact this titan is really playable at games with a significant amount of points, it's not something you play everytimes.

For collection...how many people do really need 2 Warmaster-class like titans ?

Even with weapons sold separately, I doubt it would be that popular as well. This kind of titan is like the Warlord, but even slower. It really needs to be effective at any range, not just close. That's why huge range weapons are necessary for it, IMHO.


As for the armigers...it's FW, so yeah, price sucks. Bothered as well we can't have all weapon options for the 3 of them, not just 2 + 1.

3D prints are indeed your friend here. Otherwise, just wait a bit more 'til Vanguard releases its own version (they showed a preview picture not so long ago).

As for myself, I'll take the FW version for my "smaller scale 40k knight fight / apocalypse". I don't need especially lots of them. Can work as well for collection.

Must say main reason I buy FW instead of Vanguard lies with the fact I live in Belgium and FW takes all import taxes into the EU at their own costs (with free shipping above a certain value) and they deliver fast. I'm still waiting my Vanguard order a month ago and I know I will pay extra costs when it will be there...so there's also that to take into account, mind you.

Prices on the website aren't just the only one to think about...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/27 22:20:03


 
   
Made in at
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Releasing the Iconoclast both as it's own kit AND months after the original Warmaster was definitely a weird one. I can't really figure out what their logic was, that the diehard Titanicus fans who 'one of everything' each release would buy a second Warmaster just for the giant chainsword?
   
Made in nl
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

Sarouan wrote:


3D prints are indeed your friend here. Otherwise, just wait a bit more 'til Vanguard releases its own version (they showed a preview picture not so long ago).

Must say main reason I buy FW instead of Vanguard lies with the fact I live in Belgium and FW takes all import taxes into the EU at their own costs (with free shipping above a certain value) and they deliver fast. I'm still waiting my Vanguard order a month ago and I know I will pay extra costs when it will be there...so there's also that to take into account, mind you.

Prices on the website aren't just the only one to think about...


Brexit sucks.

Ok, back on topic again!
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 Arbitrator wrote:
Releasing the Iconoclast both as it's own kit AND months after the original Warmaster was definitely a weird one. I can't really figure out what their logic was, that the diehard Titanicus fans who 'one of everything' each release would buy a second Warmaster just for the giant chainsword?


I fear that it’s a result of the marketing department enforcing their suspected “everything you need is in the box” methodology which means that for us, the gamer, no mixing weapons. Hell, I’m one of the must buy everything Titanicus players and I’ve not bought an iconoclast because the no mixing weapons thing is beyond absurd and hacks me off no end.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Arbitrator wrote:
Releasing the Iconoclast both as it's own kit AND months after the original Warmaster was definitely a weird one. I can't really figure out what their logic was, that the diehard Titanicus fans who 'one of everything' each release would buy a second Warmaster just for the giant chainsword?


It's even worse than that, they encoded in the rules that the two warmasters can't even swap weapons - because not only did they intend to not release the sprue, in order to sell the players who need one of everything another 200 dollar titan, but to also screw over third party retailers that may swoop in to fill the gap like battle bling. I was going to order a cc arm from them but there's no point now, especially seeing as I'd need to order 2 of them if I want to run an iconoclast, and still need to source the terminal/cards anyway. It's all really unfortunate, when they first previewed the iconoclast it made me feel better about my original warmaster purchase, like "awesome, they're actually going to support this titan chasis with more weapons". Boy was I wrong. Worst of all the fluff for the iconoclast in the traitor book reads like a marketing guy's email to the dev team.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 zedmeister wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
Releasing the Iconoclast both as it's own kit AND months after the original Warmaster was definitely a weird one. I can't really figure out what their logic was, that the diehard Titanicus fans who 'one of everything' each release would buy a second Warmaster just for the giant chainsword?


I fear that it’s a result of the marketing department enforcing their suspected “everything you need is in the box” methodology which means that for us, the gamer, no mixing weapons. Hell, I’m one of the must buy everything Titanicus players and I’ve not bought an iconoclast because the no mixing weapons thing is beyond absurd and hacks me off no end.


It's honestly down right insulting, modularity is a core feature of the game. Like questors knights have more arm options than a warmaster because gw marketing is the spawn of satan.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/29 19:53:50


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




They should just release Tanks and Infantry, and rules for using AI Warplanes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 20:55:29


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

RazorEdge wrote:
They should just release Tanks and Infantry, and rules for using AI Warplanes.


Naw, honestly knight distract enough from the core game, that being titan on titan combat. I don't mind a sprinkling of stuff for scale, but it really messes up the activation system because it's alternating activation. You can already see this problem by taking two stratagems of titan hunter infantry, that's 4 extra activations per combat phase. When both sides area really out of whack on activations it breaks the alternating activation mechanic because you have a tail end effect where one side is out of things to activate so the other side can do a number of activation is a row.

Epic need not come at the cost of a titan focused combat game called titanicus. Nothing wrong with wanting epic to be sure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 21:12:19


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

RazorEdge wrote:
They should just release Tanks and Infantry, and rules for using AI Warplanes.


If they’re gonna do that, they should do it as it’s own game (could call it something like, I dunno, ‘Epic’) rather than shoehorn it into Titanicus.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





RazorEdge wrote:
They should just release Tanks and Infantry, and rules for using AI Warplanes.


Done sparingly and so long as the unit has any business attacking a titan...yes.

For example, the Shadowsword super-heavy-tank and Titan hunter infantry are units that specifically target and destroy titans. Introducing these particular units makes sense as a titan crew should expect and be prepared to deal with these threats.

A heavily armoured and hovering Vendetta Gunship could add a new dynamic to Titanicus where missile pods and the Warbringer's AA guns are able to target such a threat with greater accuracy. It would also give the avenger and bolt cannons something to do other than use Armigers for target practice...

As the odd auxilary units that support a battlegroup, it could work well enough to add a bit of flavour to the game without hijacking it.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

SamusDrake wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
They should just release Tanks and Infantry, and rules for using AI Warplanes.


Done sparingly and so long as the unit has any business attacking a titan...yes.

For example, the Shadowsword super-heavy-tank and Titan hunter infantry are units that specifically target and destroy titans. Introducing these particular units makes sense as a titan crew should expect and be prepared to deal with these threats.

A heavily armoured and hovering Vendetta Gunship could add a new dynamic to Titanicus where missile pods and the Warbringer's AA guns are able to target such a threat with greater accuracy. It would also give the avenger and bolt cannons something to do other than use Armigers for target practice...

As the odd auxilary units that support a battlegroup, it could work well enough to add a bit of flavour to the game without hijacking it.


Disagree, the existing titan hunter infantry aren't even well applied because they let them basically plonk down on buildings so you can't step on them. The bunker that for some reason shoot before everything else in the strat phase are nice for scale, but again they're weird for the reason explain and add to that, like the titan hunters, oddly very very resistant to enemy shooting, like laughably so compared to knights. I'm not saying to close the door all together on having smaller models, but perhaps they should be more something tied to scenario than part of one's force/list. There's an objective from the open engine war cards that's an example of something that could work if modified, basically both sides have 3 objectives in their deployment that from my reccolection could only be destroyed in cc/smash/end movement on/over like ground assets, each one destroyed was 10vp. That could easily be 3 super heavies that can't move but can shoot, or could even be like each side get 3 free battlefield assets but they count for the 10vp and can't be killed by shooting.

It's not that any of the units from epic would be out of place, it's that the whole game is basically focussing on the battles of HH where both sides fielded titans, not the one sided massacre where titans like stomped the side that didn't have them. There's always room in AT for any of the epic or aeronautica stuff as terrain, even destructible scatter terrain if not glued down on a bigger base.

Even compared a single super heavy to the yet to be seen armiger/moirax banners. Those already seem to be pushing the extreme in one direction on scale, but for all we know could be like 9 to a unit, which like with some of the other knight banners seem at odds with like a single super heavy. Best advice if someone wans to run a shadowsword in AT is just glue it on a 60mm and play it as an acastus count as. I don't think many opponents will be too bummed that it has a worse los to a lot of targets, being lower and all.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Keep Adeptus Titanicus for Titans only! (except maybe some super heavies at some time down the line, and ofc maybe some Xenos armour at some point too, once they've run through most of the possibilities for Imperial titans that we haven't seen yet).
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

JWBS wrote:
Keep Adeptus Titanicus for Titans only! (except maybe some super heavies at some time down the line, and ofc maybe some Xenos armour at some point too, once they've run through most of the possibilities for Imperial titans that we haven't seen yet).


I just don't trust them to implement xenos factions, especially in the HH setting. What would be cool is bringing in xenos as like npc models that attack both sides. There's already rules for xenos beasts in molech, so maybe just more stuff along those lines, perhaps with accompanying scenarios or missions. Like don't piss off the eldar, maybe every time a blast like scatters into the terrain the eldar get pissed off and deploy a titan that just attacks the closest unit. Similarly for ork gargants or stompa mobs, ork would definitely attack both sides just for the sport of it. I'm all for count as, but I got zero trust with GW doing whole new factions, none.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





As there aren't really active places to discuss AT on Dakka, I hope no one will mind my asking here... but as someone just about the buy in, is everything I will want/need rules-wise, included with models? I see a LOT of card and terminal packs, and it makes buying in really confusing. Do those packs just duplicate existing options, or are they entirely new ones?

Also, a LOT of books obviously already exist. Will I want/need all of them, or have some invalidated earlier ones?

Obviously it can be a pretty pricey game with finite model options, so I am particularly interested in anything which adds interesting list building options, or good campaign/progression systems as my wife and I will primarily be playing against each-other.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
As there aren't really active places to discuss AT on Dakka, I hope no one will mind my asking here... but as someone just about the buy in, is everything I will want/need rules-wise, included with models? I see a LOT of card and terminal packs, and it makes buying in really confusing. Do those packs just duplicate existing options, or are they entirely new ones?

Also, a LOT of books obviously already exist. Will I want/need all of them, or have some invalidated earlier ones?

Obviously it can be a pretty pricey game with finite model options, so I am particularly interested in anything which adds interesting list building options, or good campaign/progression systems as my wife and I will primarily be playing against each-other.


You can get by with the core book and the Traitor Legios/Loyalist Legios book. The only stuff you're missing out of other books at that point is campaign systems and "make your own legio" rules. I'd have to check my book but I'm pretty sure the core book comes with a basic progression system. Newer books expand on it with battlefield effects, mostly.

Last time I bought a titan, it didn't come with any cards or terminals.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Rihgu wrote:


Last time I bought a titan, it didn't come with any cards or terminals.


Warbringer and warmaster come with terminals and cards in the box. And IIrc the starter box comes with 2 of each warhound and reaver terminal, possibly 2 warlord as well, and weapon cards for the plastic weapon options.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
As there aren't really active places to discuss AT on Dakka, I hope no one will mind my asking here... but as someone just about the buy in, is everything I will want/need rules-wise, included with models? I see a LOT of card and terminal packs, and it makes buying in really confusing. Do those packs just duplicate existing options, or are they entirely new ones?

Also, a LOT of books obviously already exist. Will I want/need all of them, or have some invalidated earlier ones?

Obviously it can be a pretty pricey game with finite model options, so I am particularly interested in anything which adds interesting list building options, or good campaign/progression systems as my wife and I will primarily be playing against each-other.



The non-forgeworld knights don't tend to come with terminals with the exception of the lancers in the starter box. The seperate terminals are in my opinion worth getting because they're thick card and have room for the pips, the ones that come in the starter and with units are thin card.

The loyalist/traitor book are worth getting, the ryza book too for custom legio rules. For terrain to get started I'd suggest this, very affordable and gives a full board worth of terrain https://hawkscenery.myshopify.com/products/cityscape



Has anyone seen the armiger terminals yet?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/02 01:46:26


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Thanks for the tip Crablezworth. I actually own two sets from when we played DZC! Now I just need starter sets of AT to come back in stock!

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Knights are a bit easier to get around the terminals as you only need one for the rules( for each type ) and for each additional banner you can make a card strip to hold the orders dice, banner number token and can use a dice to record the structure points; a D6 is ideal for the Questoris and Cerastus.

It also saves room on the table.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in nl
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks for the tip Crablezworth. I actually own two sets from when we played DZC! Now I just need starter sets of AT to come back in stock!


If you want some affordable plastic terrain you might also wanna check this.

But the DZC buildings might be more of a 'low risk' starter set.

Bits Blitz Designs - 3D printing a dark futuristic universe 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




Sarouan wrote:
Not really surprising the Iconoclast didn't sell well.

For games, we're talking about a huge titan known for its slowness and difficulty to manoeuver while being meant for close-combat. Not talking about the fact this titan is really playable at games with a significant amount of points, it's not something you play everytimes.

For collection...how many people do really need 2 Warmaster-class like titans ?


GW will put out the iconoclast with the stupid rules that you can't swap weapons and the fact that huge slow titans suck for melee use in this game, and the Armigers that are stupidly expensive, require 3 kits to run a squad with the same weapons, and can't touch half the stuff on the table in an average game. Then they'll take their poor sales as evidence that nobody plays Titanicus anymore and zero lessons will be learned or applied towards future release strategies.
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks for the tip Crablezworth. I actually own two sets from when we played DZC! Now I just need starter sets of AT to come back in stock!


Aren’t there plenty for sale on eBay?

The starter set is great value.

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Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Got me Armiger knights through. They have the Retainers rule - can only include a single banner per Knight Banner as part of a Battlegroup or a single banner as part of a Knight Lance. Can never be taken as part of Maniple. 3-9 knights per Armiger Banner. And, yes, no mixing weapons in a Lance.

Models are stunning, though tiny

(Excuse the Edits - was reading things wrong)

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/12/03 11:14:40


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ah, so they'd be the third odd banner in a lance, which can be different from the other two banners. That sounds reasonable as they'd escort the larger knights into battle.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

SamusDrake wrote:
Ah, so they'd be the third odd banner in a lance, which can be different from the other two banners. That sounds reasonable as they'd escort the larger knights into battle.


You'd need at least two packs to make a legal banner for a Lance. Though, the thermal spear with S8 Fusion will be quite nasty if left alone even wiith an 8" range. Autocannons have a 1 dice, Str 4, 16" range and have Ordnance so could be useful on mass. I can hear the 3D printers firing up from here... Oh, and a banner of 3 is 85 points +10pts for a Meltagun per knight

Moirax aren't as useful I'd say, though the Volikite comes in at 2 dice, 16" range Str 4 and Voidbreaker (1) and could do some work. 105pts per three

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/03 12:07:49


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Crikey, they sound pretty good for the points.

Majorly bummed that these guys weren't a plastic kit but...well...when handed lemons one must make lemonade. Theres a Warbringer titan being delivered today in the next hour or so. It will just have to do!

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

SamusDrake wrote:
Crikey, they sound pretty good for the points.

Majorly bummed that these guys weren't a plastic kit but...well...when handed lemons one must make lemonade. Theres a Warbringer titan being delivered today in the next hour or so. It will just have to do!


Yeah, they’re good for increasing activations in Titan maniples and they’re good for that last 100 points. Oh, and they’ve on got 2 structure points each and have a 7+ command check. So they die fast and won’t generally be running orders!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/03 12:36:40


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





7+ command? Oh my word!

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
 
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