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Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

SamusDrake wrote:
7+ command? Oh my word!


+1 for the Scion martial
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well thank gawd for that! We'd have Armigers wandering off willy-nilly, doing whatever they feel like doing.

Yorkshire Armigers; "We do what we like, as we like, when we like! Alright?"

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

@zedmeister is there a link to a pic of the terminal?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually nevermind they were posted in the 2018/2021 facebook groups.



So to starts, they're reinforcement for knight banners. Basically, you need to take a unit of knights to be able to field a unit of these as reinforcements to them. I like that because it means you can't spam a whole bunch of these.

Also good news, they're 3-9 so if you're like me, I tend to want to run the smallest unit of them as possible, to just be able to stay out of los with them and lurk/area control. Reason being is, both units are effectively passing command checks on 6+ assuming the scion is alive, so that means charge orders and moving twice aren't something you can rely on.

The armigers are cheaper than the moirax, likely because moirax have ionic flare shields like the other other mechanicum knights. No repair tho. Both units pay a flat rate in points regardless of weapon loadout, you can't do per arm BUT each unit has 2 loadouts, the ones previewed by fw. So basically dual weapon or weapon and ccw.

I think my fav loadout is armigers with thermal spears and ccw. The ccw is pretty weak tho, S6 and no rending, moirax at least get rending. But either way, getting off charges reliably makes the ccw for both a bit of an after thought. Where the armigers get intersting imo is you can add meltaguns for 10pts a pop like questoris. And like questoris, you can do as many or as few as you want. But honestly, 3 with thermal spear and meltaguns for 115pts isn't terrible. 85pts without them and they're still ok.

The one thing I'm noticing about the meltaguns too is it seems like they can split fire, it's more inferred than explicit but it says in the combat phase each knight can target an emey unit within 3 inches. I basically see them as defensive area control that's easy to hide out of los and the plan is basically move up to 11 inches in the movement phase, hopefully towards the end of it and hope to activate soon in the combat phase. Move out to engage enemy unit within hopefuly a few inches or within voids if need be. Shoot melta, hope for the best.

Biggest factor is you gotta take them in addition to another unit of knights. Cheapest I believe is about 140pts for two stryrix/magaera with dual ccw or obviously if you're fielding an acastus or two you can just tack them on.





Spoiler:





This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/12/03 20:58:46


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Yeah, they're not bad all things considered. I do hope the put out rules/models for the graviton pulsar and conversion beamer as well. But we'll see...
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 zedmeister wrote:
Yeah, they're not bad all things considered. I do hope the put out rules/models for the graviton pulsar and conversion beamer as well. But we'll see...


I'm pretty happy with the armigers rules. I feel like they'll hopefully suffice for how I intend to run them, most shooty loadouts tho are just gonna get wrecked by almost any shooting tho.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

In a weird turn of events, I think they're make a good go at taking out battlefield assets
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






They seem reasonable, yeah. Titchy as they come, dying to a stiff breeze and stern words, but zippy and the thermals can do work. The Moirax... seem okay, but the Voidbreaker is basically meaningless in those numbers.

Coordinated Strike Helverins with a couple of Str 12 shots from the flank could open a spot for another Banner before their death.

Retainer rule looks okay too, curbing the worst urges to spam cheap activatons and enforcing proper Knights first.

I like it. Now, to scratch build a few...

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

And honestly for those that wanna run like 6-9 of them, couldn't think of a better unit for count as just about anything epic scale that would fit on a 28mm base. Like for everyone whose constantly clamoring for the game to have tanks, here you go, 4 tank classes and you can run squadrons of 3-9 tanks in mixed units. Voila, epic.

Same thing for using like 6mm land speeders for marines or contemptor dreads on 28mm bases. If heights an concern maybe just have something armiger height on hand to sub in for los stuff, but honestly the armiger models themselves are pretty damn short.

For people doing count as orks, could totally see little ork dreadnoughts on 28mm bases.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




Armiger autocannon should do 2 shot like a weaker rapid fire battlecannon. S8 spam armiger warglaive seem alright for the cost, as expected.

Overall pretty decent addition for Knights, Knight lance still sucks though, lol, the bad command roll also make them vulnerable to be shaken.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/04 12:23:07


 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Looking again, somethings occurred to me. The armiger Helverin looks to get two shots. It says you take 2 autocannons. They’re listed as singular on the weapon profile and don’t have the paired rule. Same for the lightning lock.

Thoughts?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'd just fire them as individual weapons.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





That was my read on it, otherwise there’s no point in the Helverin model even existing when the Moirax with volkite is right there.
What I don’t get is why they aren’t Acc +1 at long range.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






They have two autocannons per model as stated in the terminal, yes, so 2 Dice per Helverin.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




1 shot for a weapon known for their high rate of fire is really distasteful, balancing is not a concern since they can just increase the cost, I think the name AUTO should ring some bell even for people who didn't know anything about these.

The Adeptus Mechanicus isn't dumb, if they can only fire 1 shot per gun, they would equip it with lascannon instead. In fact, that's what they did with the Ironstrider Ballistarius.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/05 07:35:05


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Chopstick wrote:
1 shot for a weapon known for their high rate of fire is really distasteful, balancing is not a concern since they can just increase the cost, I think the name AUTO should ring some bell even for people who didn't know anything about these.

The Adeptus Mechanicus isn't dumb, if they can only fire 1 shot per gun, they would equip it with lascannon instead. In fact, that's what they did with the Ironstrider Ballistarius.


I would have been content with more range at the current 2 shots or like you can upgrade to have a stubber and it gives +1 to hit or re-rolls to hit. Still for 25pts it's hard to complain. I still think the thermal spear/ccw and meltagun loadout is where it's at.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




Heavy Stubber is a completely ineffective weapon again everything AT can offer. Same for Heavy Flamer on the Avenger Gatling and Heavy Bolter of Acheron.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 05:22:25


 
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot




Oakland, CA

I suspect some weapons are there because they are on the 40K equivalent model, not necessarily because they have an effective place in AT.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Chopstick wrote:
Heavy Stubber is a completely ineffective weapon again everything AT can offer. Same for Heavy Flamer on the Avenger Gatling and Heavy Bolter of Acheron.


Sure but it's not ineffective against exposed titan crew like on a warbringer or warmaster's battlements. Also, it's somewhere between a light and heavy machine gun, so it's likely very effective for clearing debris for the autocannons or ranging shots for them to avoid wasting autocannon ammo, Almost all main battle tanks have a coaxial machinegun and although they can't punch through armor like a 120mm cannon, they can weaken stone and concrete and wood and before the advent of more sophisticated targeting equipment could often be use to aid in ranging the main gun.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




I wouldn't say no to extra S1, S2 weapon but then the Titan people would be angry because of the Dakka prowess of Knights.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Chopstick wrote:
I wouldn't say no to extra S1, S2 weapon but then the Titan people would be angry because of the Dakka prowess of Knights.


I get their pain, knights are fun but they're window dressing compared to titans. With all the knight stuff hopefully done for now It would certainly renew some faith to see a new titan release sooner than later, hopefully one that reverses the trend set by the iconoclast.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, we could do with a small-medium titan right now.

Rules wise they need to slam the brakes on and overhaul the knights, or possibly take them into their own game and relaunch Adeptus Titanicus as just titans on their own.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

SamusDrake wrote:
Yeah, we could do with a small-medium titan right now.

Rules wise they need to slam the brakes on and overhaul the knights, or possibly take them into their own game and relaunch Adeptus Titanicus as just titans on their own.


I think now that they've got the dedicated traitor and loyalists book, they need a book that focusses on core game stuff, the matched play scenario just isn't very good and they've made the open engine war cards hard for people to get their hands on.

Goonhammer had an article about and AT even they attended, pics looked awesome, but my only lament was there wasn't really a tournament packet in the traditional sense and even the points were variable, 1250-1750pts I believe. So thankfully it would seem people had enough to field 1750pts but

the scenarios/missions were different from table to table each round, people playing the matched scenario out of the book or the open engine war cards. It was a multiple day event with I believe 5 rounds, so 5 rounds of random missions, and everyone isn't even playing the same mission per round, add to that, the matched play scenario is already pretty random in terms of missions and deployment. I feel like as great as it looked visually with all the painted titans and nice boards, it just sorta bums me out that although we're all playing with the same models/assets we're not all really playing the same game. I feel like there are too many variables in both the engine war cards and the matched play scenario that sorta need locking down for matched play. Also, there's a lot of stratagems that sorta need soft banning because they're too much of a liability to the game.

5th ed 40k had like 6 missions/scenarios. They weren't all great but "crusade" was the best, simply 3-5 objectives, alternating placement and you do it all before you know where to deploy or what deployment map will be to keep it fair. I would love for AT to have some very simple core missions that don't have the big swingy victory point score and allow for attrition. If they can make a new book with some content for the historical mission side/fluff mission side as well as some really focused match play stuff it'd be great.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The open war pack should definitely be available for longer.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






SamusDrake wrote:
The open war pack should definitely be available for longer.


Or just print the open war options in a book with numbers to roll for them.
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

Agreed on the Open War deck or some kind of reprint.

I don’t agree that the game needs to move to more uniform, competitive-style matched play. Most AT events seem happy to be more casual and narrative in nature, and the players seem happy playing in them. I don’t want to see a good game that knows what it is start down that rabbit hole.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MajorWesJanson wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
The open war pack should definitely be available for longer.


Or just print the open war options in a book with numbers to roll for them.


Dammit Wes, is nothing sacred with you?

We would like a nice card deck...y'know, for a bit of class!

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 gorgon wrote:
Agreed on the Open War deck or some kind of reprint.

I don’t agree that the game needs to move to more uniform, competitive-style matched play. Most AT events seem happy to be more casual and narrative in nature, and the players seem happy playing in them. I don’t want to see a good game that knows what it is start down that rabbit hole.


There is no reason you cannot have both. Some events can be an uniform, competitive-style matched play. Others can be more casual and narrative in nature. If there isn't interest from a given local community for one or the other, then that format can be dropped. I for one prefer competitive-style events.

Henry R. 
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





SamusDrake wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
The open war pack should definitely be available for longer.


Or just print the open war options in a book with numbers to roll for them.


Dammit Wes, is nothing sacred with you?

We would like a nice card deck...y'know, for a bit of class!


Just make a second deck; exactly the same drawing rules but different maps, twists, objectives etc. that you can combine with the first one to make an even more open war, but which is still fully standalone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 23:14:05


"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 gorgon wrote:
Agreed on the Open War deck or some kind of reprint.

I don’t agree that the game needs to move to more uniform, competitive-style matched play. Most AT events seem happy to be more casual and narrative in nature, and the players seem happy playing in them. I don’t want to see a good game that knows what it is start down that rabbit hole.


"Most AT events seem happy to be more casual and narrative in nature" And this wouldn't take away from that at all, it would just allow me and someone on the other side of the planet to discuss the game as "one thing" and not a lengthy list of extra variables, not have to couch every discussion in all the house rules of the particular narrative scenarios that seem common. The tagline of the engine war cards is no game need be the same, for me, there needs to at least exist some optional baseline, can we at least both agree the current matched play scenario could be improved?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
callidusx3 wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Agreed on the Open War deck or some kind of reprint.

I don’t agree that the game needs to move to more uniform, competitive-style matched play. Most AT events seem happy to be more casual and narrative in nature, and the players seem happy playing in them. I don’t want to see a good game that knows what it is start down that rabbit hole.


There is no reason you cannot have both. Some events can be an uniform, competitive-style matched play. Others can be more casual and narrative in nature. If there isn't interest from a given local community for one or the other, then that format can be dropped. I for one prefer competitive-style events.


To me it's like if you can't make organized play work, I'm not sure how we can then plan more expansive/bigger/longer group games/narrative events. But like 30k here, it's 30k in name only, it's basically just people playing apoc.

My issue with the event I described still stands because if the plan is to do a more narrative thing, that's fine, but this was too in the middle.

I get the T word rubs people the wrong way (tournament). I don't think I'm out for competitive play, just organized and focused play at the minimum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
The open war pack should definitely be available for longer.


Or just print the open war options in a book with numbers to roll for them.


Dammit Wes, is nothing sacred with you?

We would like a nice card deck...y'know, for a bit of class!


Just make a second deck; exactly the same drawing rules but different maps, twists, objectives etc. that you can combine with the first one to make an even more open war, but which is still fully standalone.


That could be cool too, as long as they re-release the first one.


Honestly, if a new titanicus book dropped and it has like 6 incredibly simple missions for matched play literally just made up of 3 cards, like primary objective, deployment and either a planetary effect or battlefield effect but not both. And I'd honestly weight everything towards simplicity, so like the easiest ones or least complicated ones to remember.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/08 02:38:57


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






While I disagree heavily with Crablezworth on the necessity of any such baselines that veer towards homogenizing the game towards a monolithic, optimizable "tournament standard" over the rich and tactically heck of a lot more interesting mix we have now...

Does the Echoes of Glory system in Crucible of Retribution not offer some semblance of that already? Less swingy than the excellent Engine War deck, more about a single mission for both sides than the regular Matched system.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
 
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