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In sharp contrast to GW, PP is actually listening to its customers and providing an updated Prime.  News here:  http://forums.privateerpress.com/index.php?showtopic=94936

Apparently it will contain:
- rules updated to the latest and greatest, including the stuff from Escalation, Apoth, and Superiority (the rules, not the units)
- some tweaks to existing models (nothing drastic, I'm guessing a points hike for Sorscha and Haley are at the top of the list)
- new fiction
- An extensive errata and appendix

I gotta say I was one of the people clamoring for Prime 1.5; this is great news for me. 

Should be cool. Hope there are more than just 'a couple' unit fixes.

Enh, I'd really rather them not touch much. Most of the stuff in Prime is fine, the only things that I really thing need to be addressed are:

- Sorscha and Haley
- the Reaper Helljack
- The total uselessness of Mechanics for anyone not named Karchev

Some stuff that would be nice to fix:
- improve the Sentinel (POW 12 on the gun)
- make that whatsitcalled Menoth jack better

I hope they don't touch much either. I'd just like a beautifully hard bound, full color Prime book with all the FAQ & other rule updates to go along with my pretty Hard cover Hordes and Superiority books.

I hope they don't touch much either.  The insidious way they usually handle under-used units through the creation of Unit Attachments, specialized Solos, and Elite Cadres seems to work pretty well for me.  I'd much rather them not monkey too much with points and powers.

What I would like to see is some consideration placed on cross-over WM/Hordes rules, with references to Warbeasts and Warlocks where appropriate.  (Perhaps Kreoss's Lamentation affects Warlocks?)  And maybe some sneaky bits in with the mercs to make a few of them minions, too.

Boomhowler should be able to join my Trollblood battlegroup.

That's just my two cents, though.  Privateer Press, you're doing a bang-up job.  Cheers.

Posted By Jeff on 10/03/2006 9:52 AM
Enh, I'd really rather them not touch much. Most of the stuff in Prime is fine, the only things that I really thing need to be addressed are:

- Sorscha and Haley
- the Reaper Helljack
- The total uselessness of Mechanics for anyone not named Karchev

Some stuff that would be nice to fix:
- improve the Sentinel (POW 12 on the gun)
- make that whatsitcalled Menoth jack better

Agreed, though I hope whatever changes they make, they allow people to trade in their old cards for new, updated ones, or otherwise make the cards for those units available to people who own the models already for free. Knowing PP, they probably will.

I cant wait for this book...Ill pick it up for sure.

PP better not drastically alter any units though. Gamers may get the wrong idea of "if we complain enough we can change other X"

I would like to see the Sentinel, Charger, Slayer, Defiler, Deathripper, Repenter, & Mechanics get some love. Sorscha, Vlad, Haley, Kreoss, and Skarre could use some hate >:->

Oh c'mon fab. Without making something for the internet Pundits to hate on... they wouldn't be a mini-company. They'd be... like... hippies.

[Cartman voice] I hate hippies [/cartman voice]

True though, its the ultimate sign that youve made it into the realm of popularity. The interent complains about you for no good reason.

Posted By jmurph on 10/03/2006 3:17 PM
I would like to see the Sentinel, Charger, Slayer, Defiler, Deathripper, Repenter, & Mechanics get some love. Sorscha, Vlad, Haley, Kreoss, and Skarre could use some hate >:->

I really disagree about singling out stuff to be adjusted, since everyone has their own opinions on what is really busted.  A telling sign is your glaring omission of the oft used Deneghra from the list of "so-called borken" casters, and the inclusion of the Slayer and Deathripper as bad Cryx jacks, when the Reaper is their only real turkey from Prime (and still not too terrible).

Personally, I do not see the need to drastically change things.  Instead of changing points, Errata such as "wind rush = 1x / turn" would be less disruptive.

I left Denny off merely because I love her :-) (And for future reference, smiley faces after a post indicates that it isn't terribly serious.)

Yeah, the Reaper is pretty worthless, and probably should have been in my list. I apologize for not being perfect ;-) But if you think it's the only Cryx problem, I guess you have never seen a Defiler (cf Nightwretch), which isn't too surprising, since they aren't worth fielding. Same problem with the DR, really- it is eclipsed by the 'wretch. Not a big deal, really, though. I am fine using the current units to filet warcasters and still paint up the sucky ones, since they often have pretty nice models.

Fluffwise the Trollbloods would never hire Boomhowler. There is too much bad blood between them.

keezus: Stuff is going to be changed, and more than the current errata. The easiest way to chnage stuff is to adjust point values - nHaley and nSorscha are obviously pointed too low (especially for what they do; there's no way that Haley should be Cygnar's cheapest warcaster). The Reaper should have its point value dropped some; it costs as much as a Centurian and it's IMO not nearly as good (PP has historically overvalued units that can both shoot and fight in melee, especially in Prime).

I mean they could make more drastic changes - stuff like Sorscha's activation ends after she casts Wind Rush, but that's going to be a lot more disruptive. I think adjusting point values is the way to go.

Agreed, Jeff. Although, to be fair, the Centurion really ought to be a blt more expensive given that it eclipses the other Cygnar heavies in most general cases (this coming from a Cygnar player), so the comparison is a bit off. That's a job for subsequent "Remixes", though.

I don't think much needs to be adjusted. I've seen a lot of people complain about this or that. But in reality a unit you think sucks, someone else hates because its too effective. Take Sorscha, I've seen a lot of hate directed at her, but in my group no one runs her very often. Because we figured out how to deal with her. Same with Skarre. Thats what I love about Warmachine, everything is dangerous. If you can't see it now, it will come as an ugly surprise down the road.

I will be interested in how they handle the transition between stat-cards. Presently, the stuff from Prime can either come with a BW stat card (old stock), or a colour one - or even if there will be new stat cards issued...

Davian: You know I used to think that, but the Ironclad has made a real comeback in my esteem. The +1 SPD and MAT is has over the Centurian, combined with its better crit *and* Tremor make it a great heavy jack. And the Defender is really good too. So is the Stormclad, albeit in fewer situations (take it with eStryker and Positive Charge it for the lols, and I take it with eCaine so its banner compensates for his crappy Cmd).

Really it's the Hammersmith that suffers by comparison.

Crimson: There's definitely stuff that needs to be adjusted. Sorscha's not unbeatable of course - she's just really really good for her point cost. Especially in a timed format like Steamroller. Most Steamroller games only go 3-4 rounds; so Sorscha's feat effectively takes away 25%-33% of your entire game. In a format predicated on quickly achieving objectives, that's huge. Likewise Haley is a bit undercosted. Same with Eiryss - for 27 points or whatever she's almost too good to pass up.

I really think cost adjustments will be how they go. They won't really require reprinting the cards, and they're minimally disruptive (no need to re-learn how they work).

Judging from Matt's posts over in the PP forum, there will be changes to some units, and not just points, but there will be 'easy' ways to get the updated cards.

I have faith that the changes will be good. The guys that write the rules for PP actaully PLAY in comptitive tournies with awards such as "fastest caster kill" etc.

I can see why Sorscha would be very effective in a Streamroller, but as I remember alot of the complaints were because people didn't handle her feat well. Simply ignoring their turn. Instead of waiting the 5 minutes before turning it over to your opponent. Everyone who did that gave her an extra turn.

I never had a an issue with Haley. And Eiryss doesn't live long enough to bug me.

If you actually sit there for five minutes while your army is frozen that makes you the world's biggest dick. :\ That's sandbagging, straight up, and in a Steamroller that's the kind of thing that will get you in real hot water.

I can't wait to see what happens in Prime remix! I hope PP does something cool like packages new cards for the changed units in the book it's self and then send out more in tournement kits.

Seperately available stat cards are something we've been asking for for a long time, too.  There's a great Iron Kingdoms Monster Hunter, a great alternate to Ashley (just for example) but its hard to justify things like that when you have to buy Ashley anyway to get the card.  That's just one example, there are a lot of reasons for releasing seperate stat cards.  I'm scratch-building Vengers for another example.

Assuming you were silly enough to have your whole army frozen. Sorscha may be able to prevent your models from acting, she doesn't steal time.

How are you supposed to not be "silly enough to have your whole army frozen" when playing the wonderful King of the Hill scenario as written for Steamroller 2.0? Or even the scenario with the three objective points? Furthermore, how is doing things slowly a true tactical answer for Sorscha's Feat?

Besides, wasting time, as has been pointed out earlier, is rude. And illegal according to the Steamroller 2.0 rules. If you are deemed to be sandbagging, you can be forced out of the tournament.

You have to get three strikes to be ousted.

So, since you' have to do it three times, you should go ahead and stall?

I don't think Crimson Devil's ever played Steamroller.

Not that, I'm saying that the three strikes rule is a limitation. A stalling player won't
get ousted unless he's busted thrice. I'm sure there are unsavory types who will
stretch the strike system as far as they can.

And those players might find themselves uninvited from future tournaments.