Very Theme Based 2000 Empire

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**colonel584**

In advance, please dont say anything about the chocie of a grand master over an elector count, other criticism in encorouged. This is my first list, fluff for the theme can be found on this website. Also for my GM, I was not sure about the Sword of Righteous Steel (Always hit opponent on 2+) or the sword of power (+2 Strength to all CC attacks). Any fellow Empire players, which would you take. The Sword of Sigismund is also fairly tempting (+1 Strength, always strikes first, or initiative order if opponent has ability). [/b]

[/b]

Lords [/b]- 250 [/b]

Lady May Filne (Grand Master of the Order of the Drakenhof Templars) - Shield, Full Plate Armour, Barded Warhorse, Sword of Righteous Steel, Holy Relic=250 (<st1:street>Joins Inner Circle</st1:street> Knights)

Heroes[/b] - 370[/b]

Captain Altrus- Captain-Great Weapon, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Talisman of Protection= 107 (Unsure)

Brother Manea- Warrior Priest-Heavy Armour, Two-Handed Hammer, Talisman of Protection=118 (Unsure)

Archmage Reiwulf- <st1:city><st1:place>Battle</st1:place></st1:city> Mage- Level 2, Two Dispel Scrolls= 145 (Roam and die under new rules, Unsure)

Core [/b]– 1006 [/b]

19 Spearmen- Shields, Full Command=158

-5 Free Company

15 Swordsmen- Full Command=105

20 Swordsmen- Full Command=140

-10 Free Company=50

-5 Free Company=25

16 Handgunners- Marksman- Repeater Handgun=148

5 Archers- Huntsmen, Marksman= 56

Drakenhof Templars- <st1:street><st1:address>9 Knights- Inner Circle</st1:address></st1:street>, Full Command, War Banner=299

Special – 372 [/b]

Heir Templars- 16 Greatswords- Full Command, Griffon Banner= 272

Cannon=100

**Manfred von Drakken**

Your Speamen and Swordsmen units are too small. Lose one model, you start losing ranks.

Every unit of infantry that isn't missile troops should have at least one detachment.

Your Hangunner unit is too big. You're also wasting points with the repeater handgun: for the cost, you can get two more Handgunners.

You've also got two Talismans of protection; you can only have one.

**colonel584**

Talisman of Protection is a common item! Wait.. can you only have one of each common item (besides dispel scrolls)?

Also with the marksman, his repeater handgun does the job of the extra two guys already, but with an improved BS.

By the Way, is the armour peicing rule -2 or -1?

**colonel584**

Okay i've revised, how about

Lords - 250
Lady May Filne (Grand Master of the Order of the Drakenhof Templars) - Shield, Full Plate Armour, Barded Warhorse, Sword of Righteous Steel, Holy Relic=250 (Joins Inner Circle Knights)

Heroes - 355
Captain Altrus- Captain-Great Weapon, Armour of Meteoric Iron= 92

Brother Manea- Warrior Priest-Heavy Armour, Two-Handed Hammer, Talisman of Protection=118

Archmage Reiwulf- Battle Mage- Level 2, Two Dispel Scrolls= 145

Core – 1070
27 Spearmen- Shields, Full Command=214
-5 Free Company=25
-6 Handgunners=48

27 Swordsmen- Full Command=214
-10 Free Company=50
-8 Handgunners=64

10 Handgunners- Marksman- Repeater Handgun=100

5 Archers- Huntsmen, Marksman= 56

Drakenhof Templars- 9 Knights- Inner Circle, Full Command, War Banner=299

Special – 332
Heir Templars- 16 Greatswords- Full Command, Banner of Duty= 232
-8 Swordsmen

Cannon=100

I've enlarged the units and added more detachments. The uneven units is because of numbers in each box (don't want to waste models, i'm sorta on a budget). BTW. The army is 2007 points, would they allow that in a a tournament? With the number of troops at 27 they'd have to lose 4 before losing ranks (they'd each recieve a character) also the greatswords would have to lose 3 (with a character). Also my dillema over the magic weapon is continuing which weapon previously mentioned should i choose?!

**Manfred von Drakken**

1) You'll need to drop 7 points for this to be allowed in a tourney. When they say 2000 points, they mean it.

2) How wide are you planning on having your units? At the minimum frontage of five, your Core infantry can lose eight models without losing rank bonus (1 character facotered in). The Greatswords, however, can only get a max of +2, and lose that after taking 3 casualties (again, 1 character factored in).

3) Your detachment assignment looks much better. However, I'd consider moving a model or two from the bigger Free Company detachment to the smaller for the extra bodies. You're going to need those detachments to keep their US of 5 for as long as possible to deny ranks.

4) While you get the same number of shots with a repeater handgun, you're not getting better odds. The Marksman's increased BS is canceled out by the -1 for multiple shots. So, really, you're losing points, since you can get the exact same number of shots for less points and more bodies. And really, it's all about having bodies in your list.

5) Take the Sword of Power. Aagainst troops you're already hitting on a 3+, so having the extra strength will help you wound and bypass armor. Against enemy characters, hitting on 2+ doesn't do much good if you can't wound them or make the occasional wound you inflict stay with only a -1 to their save.

**colonel584**

This army is only 4 points over, in every army book it states that 5 either way still counts. Check any rulebook. I've done some extra detachment work and changed the greatsword's detachment to handgunners. I've made the ajustment with the sword of power, upped the amount of knights. I also took your advise and made the Free company detachments more even and prevent that under 5 unit strength- no ranks rule. WIth the armour of meteoric iron i gave it to the warrior priest instead because he could only be equipped with heavy. So to compensate i gave the captain fpa and the tally. As they're both carrying great weapons with no shields the extra save is important. I really wish i could have more cannons so maybe a 2500 or 3000 point army is more appropriate for that kind of heavy equipment. Remember all constructive criticism and comments can easily be implemented (except for the grand master), and is encouraged.

[/b]

Lords [/b]- 245 [/b]

Lady May Filne (Grand Master of the Order of the Drakenhof Templars) - Shield, Full Plate Armour, Barded Warhorse, Sword of Power, Holy Relic=245 (<st1:street>Joins Inner Circle</st1:street> Knights)

Heroes[/b] - 351[/b]

Captain Altrus- Captain-Great Weapon, Full Plate Armour, Talisman of Protection=77

Brother Manea- Warrior Priest-Armour of Meteoric Iron, Two-Handed Hammer, =129

Archmage Reiwulf- <st1:city><st1:place>Battle</st1:place></st1:city> Mage- Level 2, Two Dispel Scrolls= 145

Core [/b]– 988 [/b]

24 Spearmen- Shields, Full Command=193

-8 Free Company=40

24 Swordsmen- Full Command=193

-8 Free Company=40

-7 Free Company=35

10 Handgunners=80

5 Archers- Huntsmen, Marksman= 56

Drakenhof Templars- 11 Knights- Inner Circle, Full Command, War Banner=351

Special – 420 [/b]

Heir Templars- 18 Greatswords- Full Command, Banner of Duty= 256

-8 Handgunners=64

Cannon=100

**colonel584**

By the way all of the them and unit names is based on the Old Weird's Incanabulum on the land of Sylvania in WD291

**Manfred von Drakken**

My copy of the OK book (and all the books I've read) mention that an greed points value is the maximum allowed; you can spend less and will probably find it very difficult to use every last point, but it's still considered a '2000-point army'. It says nothing about being over being allowed. However, the best thing to do is contact the event organizer.

**BustaCaps**

When playing a friendly game it's alright to be a few points over, but when going to an organized event you should always be at the maximum or below it. It would be dumb to say being five point over is okay, because then everyone would go five points over, and it would be a 2005 point game. Just a thought, but maybe points limits should be based on the year, so we can play 2006 points battles this year.

**colonel584**

Righty, i'll just get rid of one free company from one of the '8' units.

Okay, any more suggestions on the actual army instead of the (1999) points cost?

**colonel584**

Any1 else?

**colonel584**

Are there any more comments about the list?

**colonel584**

Any1 at all????

**Manfred von Drakken**

I would think that if anyone had comments, they'd have posted them by now...