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Agreed with Overread.

There was just something about that design that sticks in the mind.

The new ones? Not so much. Again, nothing fundamentally wrong to my mind, just not as ace.

I just finished watching the episode and, to be honest, I kinda loved it...

It had the hope, the optimism of Star Trek, there was positivity, redemption, hope...

Sure, there was no real surprises (but I've seen arguments that not having surprises in finales shouldn't be seen as a 'bad' thing and I agree with them) and it did kind of end up being a Mass Effect mimic in LOTS of ways but...

Yeah, I still really loved it. A lot. So much.

Like really.


EDIT: The new ship class designs most certainly looked it could very much fit into Star Trek Onlines design ethos, being a bit of a combination of the Odyssey and like someone said, the Avenger classes.

well is was better than STD but that is a very low bar, terrible acting, stories, direction and a total lack of respect to any of the previous series including the TNG which it was allegedly following up on.

Still hoping real Trek comes back so we can be done with this alternate universe crap, sadly it means we wont have Patrick Stewart etc. but thats a sacrifice I am willing to take if it means a return to good thoughtful stories with heart.

I watched up until the two part finale (leaving that for tomorrow). I have to admit that I got quite nostalgic during the Nepenthe episode (the only one that I'll likely remember the name of) and it was the only one that I genuinely like so far with only a few scenes/plot points I took issue with. It's too bad that Picard doesn't take Troi's advice to act like Picard and instead alternates between his old self and somewhere on the spectrum between naive and idiotic in the next episode. I obviously can't comment about the finale yet but so far I'd say that the average quality is better than season 1 of STD but the number of episodes I actually liked is still less (the Mudd episode and the Pahvo ones being the two I enjoyed in the other show's premiere season). Here's hoping that the finale is better than just meh...

Glad everyone else picked up on the fact they basically just used the plot from Mass Effect. I don’t believe that’s just a coincidence, I really do think the bad writers ripped it off. Just finished the finale and I’m pretty sure I hate this show. It answers the life long question: what if Star Trek was just...Star Wars. The problem is crystallized with the Romulan Samurai guy who keeps getting in Kung Fu sword fights. We’ve never had something like that before in trek but y’know somebodies got to do something Jedi like or something.

I would have much preferred if Picard had just actually died. A noble death, not such a bad way to go. I guess when they go on to make a crappy 2nd season I can comfort myself that it isn’t even the real Picard just a fancy Photocopy, just like this show.

I like the dichotomy of resurrecting a dude via synthetic golem so you can talk about how life only has meaning if you die, and then also installing a countdown timer until the golem body dies again. The whole life only has meaning if you die thing is stupid and is only said as a way to comfort people for whom death is inevitable. The Real problem with immortality is one of resources.

Uh oh, I’ve started ranting... Alright, the beacon has been lit, synthetics call for aid! Zeroed in on their location, opened a wormhole, started to come thru it, big fleets on the other side, and... Oh, someone destroyed the beacon. I guess they didn’t actually need our help after all. Pack it up and go home fellas!

Half called it on the golem; if anyone has any issues with it not being the "real" Picard now, we can safely say that he crossed that bridge the first time that he ever stepped into a transporter.

The scale of the fleets is rather unnecessary, though. The threat would be just as serious if only 1/10 of the ships were involved, without the scenes being full of trash.

Wolf 359 and the Sector 001 battles were huge and looked great, but had nowhere nearly as many ships as the Picard finale or the STD one. It seems like the current approach is to copy/paste the ships until you can't see the starfield behind them, then line them up like Napoleonic infantry and start shooting.

Maybe someone decided that quantity does indeed have a quality of its own.

 AduroT wrote:
I like the dichotomy of resurrecting a dude via synthetic golem so you can talk about how life only has meaning if you die, and then also installing a countdown timer until the golem body dies again. The whole life only has meaning if you die thing is stupid and is only said as a way to comfort people for whom death is inevitable. The Real problem with immortality is one of resources.

Uh oh, I’ve started ranting... Alright, the beacon has been lit, synthetics call for aid! Zeroed in on their location, opened a wormhole, started to come thru it, big fleets on the other side, and... Oh, someone destroyed the beacon. I guess they didn’t actually need our help after all. Pack it up and go home fellas!

I go the impression that it was the beacon that was actually opening the wormhole, not the other side.

To start speculating / wishlisting for season 2; there was a bit in one of the earlier episodes with Seven of Nine (I think, might have been Hugh) asks Picard to be the voice / face of the Ex-Borg who currently have no home, no freedom, no rights, etc. That would be a really interesting aspect to explore and the Borg are scary enough / make even the Federation paranoid enough to drive some interesting storylines.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Glad everyone else picked up on the fact they basically just used the plot from Mass Effect. I don’t believe that’s just a coincidence, I really do think the bad writers ripped it off. Just finished the finale and I’m pretty sure I hate this show. It answers the life long question: what if Star Trek was just...Star Wars. The problem is crystallized with the Romulan Samurai guy who keeps getting in Kung Fu sword fights. We’ve never had something like that before in trek but y’know somebodies got to do something Jedi like or something.

I would have much preferred if Picard had just actually died. A noble death, not such a bad way to go. I guess when they go on to make a crappy 2nd season I can comfort myself that it isn’t even the real Picard just a fancy Photocopy, just like this show.

the whole synthetic thing is such a long used plot of sci-fi it's a friggen end game crisis in stelleris. it's ahrdly something Mass effect orginated

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Glad everyone else picked up on the fact they basically just used the plot from Mass Effect. I don’t believe that’s just a coincidence, I really do think the bad writers ripped it off. Just finished the finale and I’m pretty sure I hate this show. It answers the life long question: what if Star Trek was just...Star Wars. The problem is crystallized with the Romulan Samurai guy who keeps getting in Kung Fu sword fights. We’ve never had something like that before in trek but y’know somebodies got to do something Jedi like or something.

We've had Klingons fighting with swords and other hand weapons throughout all of TNG and DS9. We just didn't get truly flashy fights because the time/money/effects wasn't there to do it. Should Star Trek not be allowed to evolve with our current capabilities of film-making?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Glad everyone else picked up on the fact they basically just used the plot from Mass Effect. I don’t believe that’s just a coincidence, I really do think the bad writers ripped it off. Just finished the finale and I’m pretty sure I hate this show. It answers the life long question: what if Star Trek was just...Star Wars. The problem is crystallized with the Romulan Samurai guy who keeps getting in Kung Fu sword fights. We’ve never had something like that before in trek but y’know somebodies got to do something Jedi like or something.

We've had Klingons fighting with swords and other hand weapons throughout all of TNG and DS9. We just didn't get truly flashy fights because the time/money/effects wasn't there to do it. Should Star Trek not be allowed to evolve with our current capabilities of film-making?

I anxiously await the scene where they introduce the nuGorn character that can consume enemies with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse in an effort to evolve into MCU style storytelling and film-making. Because that's what Star Trek can... NAY!... *should* be just because it's technically possible.

More of the same from Star Trek since The Search for Spock...character dies, then returned without consequences; Enterprise blows up so we can redesign and sell new toys; etc. They've become their own trope/cliche generating machine since then...those must be two of the only ideas left in the Trek Writer's room these days.

Sure.

If we ignore The Dominion War entirely.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Sure.

If we ignore The Dominion War entirely.

*remembers that time characters died because the writers wanted to twist the knife in real good*

Good times.

There’s also only Spock and Picard that survived through handwavium that I can think of?

Yar didn’t. Timey-wimey one off, and then her daughter for a few more cameos.

Dax? Kinda the Trill thing, and Ezri wasn’t exactly Jadzia resurrected?

Lore stayed ded, as did Data ( at least physically). Really cannot think of anyone else who got resurrected? Entirely possibly I’m missing someone though.

It probably happened a few times in single episodes here and there. Just as one-off events rather than extensive major events.


I agree that Dax turning into Ezri was pure Trill and Ezri was very much her own character and very distinct from Jadzia.



Kirk sort of did a bit of a death trick in Generations, though that was more getting saved and pushed forward in time (and he did die after that pretty fast).

After that I'm sure there's a few here and there. By and large though things do die in Trek. Though I think until DS9 there weren't that many major deaths - Tasha in TNG was an early death but that was never really revisited again. until DS9.

 totalfailure wrote:
More of the same from Star Trek since The Search for Spock...character dies, then returned without consequences; Enterprise blows up so we can redesign and sell new toys; etc. They've become their own trope/cliche generating machine since then...those must be two of the only ideas left in the Trek Writer's room these days.

In the distant past, they'd at least typically wait a few years before recycling a character/actor like Yar or Spock. Some like Sisko (my favorite captain) thankfully have yet to have their meaningful deaths negated although I suppose Ezri filled that niche in DS9. I can't tell if they're alternating instant rebirth (Ezri, Sisko, Tucker, Picard)...

Is Sisko even "Dead". He's just living in the Wormhole isn't he?

But Sisko didn’t snuff it? He went with the prophets.

 Overread wrote:
Is Sisko even "Dead". He's just living in the Wormhole isn't he?

At best, he's in another plane of existence outside our space time. I'd say that's a similar enough description to me to an afterlife like Stovokhor especially given the religious significance of the Prophets. YMMV.

Don't forget the Prophets were only ever "Wormhole Aliens" to the Federation who are used to "godlike creatures" such as the Q. If anything some of the religious events that unfolded only did so partly because of key people pushing for them to happen whilst the Prophets sort of went along or nudged things along.

And their predictions and influence was very much curtailed to the region around the Wormhole.

 Overread wrote:
Don't forget the Prophets were only ever "Wormhole Aliens" to the Federation who are used to "godlike creatures" such as the Q. If anything some of the religious events that unfolded only did so partly because of key people pushing for them to happen whilst the Prophets sort of went along or nudged things along

There's also the season opener of the last season, that reveals Sisko's entire roll as the emissary, and indeed the Wormhole Aliens role as the prophets, is self-fulfilling prophecy from the perspective of linear time. To the prophets, it's just existence since they didn't perceive 'time' as a thing until Sisko explained it to them in the series opener(s).

Well I just got around to seeing the final episode. Consider me underwhelmed and a bit annoyed. This just isn't the Trek I am interested in seeing. Here's to hoping for a good season 3 of the orville.

 Thargrim wrote:
Well I just got around to seeing the final episode. Consider me underwhelmed and a bit annoyed. This just isn't the Trek I am interested in seeing. Here's to hoping for a good season 3 of the orville.

Have they confirmed a season three of Orville? Last I heard it was still up in the air, but that’s been a bit.

It's confirmed... for Hulu. It won't be free on Fox.

 warboss wrote:
It's confirmed... for Hulu. It won't be free on Fox.

at least its coming back, Orville is a really good show.

 Formosa wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It's confirmed... for Hulu. It won't be free on Fox.

at least its coming back, Orville is a really good show.

It's the most Star Trek thing I've seen in 20 years. Funny how that formula still works. Even with fart jokes.

So, just finished watching the finale and my God was it underwhelming. The season as a whole was OK I guess but seemed to move bizarrely slowly for such a short season and looking back I'm thinking that there's actually not much more real content in this season than you'd get in a standard two-parter (OK, maybe a three-parter) of TNG. A lot of it just felt like filler, including entire episodes like the one on Freeworld.

Specifically, what's the deal with Oh? Apparently just a high-ranking officer in two separate empires, which is fine I guess? Then there's Picard's "death". My only question after watching the episode is "why?" What's the point? We get a hint he has some terminal illness early in the season, it's picked up again in the penultimate episode, he dies in the finale then returns to life within five minutes, giving us just enough time for a couple of tearjerker scenes that fall completely flat because the subject of their grief is drinking tea with them ten minutes later. Then there's the fleet battle scene which has been infected by the Star Wars approach to space combat with all your ships lined up like a Roman Legion, ready to throw lasers at each other at the stellar equivalent of touching distance. Finally, there's the plot ripped directly from Mass Effect, a game series that left its fans thoroughly underwhelmed by its plot once it was revealed in its totality. Also, what's the point of Elrond...sorry, Elnor?

I'm hopeful we see a progression in terms of writing and pacing in season 2 and maybe see a Picard a little bit more integrated into the Federation somehow. Trek without the Federation seems to fall a little flat, which is weird because in theory it's a universe that's ripe for some very interesting storytelling outside of the institutions we've all become so familiar with. The central cast has shown some good signs they may prove interesting enough to build a season around (except Elnor) but the overriding feeling I got after watching the full season was "I want a Seven of Nine series".

In terms of filler, I see where people are coming from.

But then, this season is also filling us in on the last 20 years of Federation history to a degree. That in mind, I appreciate the world building.

Litmus for me will be the next season. Now we’re more up to speed, and know for a fact that Picard remains, well, Picard, the writers are in a better place to do more. Because remember, this isn’t just a show for Old Grognards, but one for new fans to discover Star Trek.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
All things are open to criticism. Criticism is not a purely negative thing. One can provide a positive critique. But when a critique is longer than the subject, I’ll ignore it, as I suspect there’ll be nothing constructive about it.

The Art of War by Sun Tzu is a collection of 16 tiny pieces of bamboo all strapped together.
Are you saying you would ignore the Art of War because 98% of every published version of it is centuries of critiques from other military and political leaders?
Sometimes a discussion about something takes time. The definitions of all things takes longer to say than the name of things.