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 stonehorse wrote:


Edit. They can be fielded together, just in a format you want to dismiss to prove your point. In Unlimited they can be fielded together. In Prome Arena they can not be fielded together.

How often do you and the people you know play Open Play 40k/AoS? I've seen precisely *zero* games of either since they introduced that concept however many years ago. I've encountered maybe a handful of people who admit to playing Open Play as their primary format or, even more than once.

Basically the same thing. Privateer Press has made clear that Prime Arena will be the primary format of play and their primary focus for development, and were clear in stating that the size of the back catalog being made available in Unlimited play is too prohibitively large for them to support with balance and content updates. Thats the clearest sign I need to know that Unlimited will have a short shelf-life.

Well, no one plays 40k or AoS here. We see WFB 6th edition, KoW, Warcry, MCP, and Battle tech.

In your area it may not be played, but that doesn't mean it is a format that has a short shelf life, besides just because a game isn't supported doesn't mean it isn't played. This mindset that a game has to be supported in order to be viable is a clear sign that GW's pump and dump support strategy has altered how people view a game's worth.

I'd also add that the FB account for Warmachine slants very heavily towards people asking about Unlimited... because people have models for that format, and Prime arena may take years to get to a workable place. Now Social Media is not the best gauge, but the announcement of MKIV Prime Arena seems to be generating more interest in MKI-III, and Unlimited... I'd bet it has PP a bit worried.

Open play in 40k is too simplistic. It's only good for learning the basics.

I think there is a misunderstanding regarding unlimited/prime. From what I read, there is:
- Unlimited: where you can play whatever model you want, but will not be supported.
- Prime: which comprises = 1. the new armies released in MK4
2. legacy armies = 28 armies from all the models released until MK4

We also have an example of a legacy Army: Cryx Banes. I checked the rooster of that army and here are the statistics:
All Cryx Army:

- 23 warcasters
- 25 warjacks
- 22 units
- 25 solos
(without mercenaries)

Out of these, the Legacy Prime legal Bane Army has:

- 2 warcasters (+2 more for the Blackfleet army = 4) = 17,3%
- 11 warjacks = 44% of all jacks
- 4 units = 18,1%
- 10 solos = 40%

Considering there is a second Cryx army that will also have it's own rooster, most likely the majority of Cryx models will be legal in Prime. Which means if you played Cryx for ~past 10 years, you should have no problem fielding an army for Prime. As a side note, the Cryx battlebox and the 2 player starter set are 100% Prime legal, so if you want to play MKIV and like Cryx, those are great buys and a cheap way to get into the game.

We also have an example of a legacy Army: Cryx Banes.

Cryx aren't necessarily the best example. If you look at Khador you have:

23 warcasters
3 battle engines
22 solos
21 units

but between the two armies and one interpretation of how the cadre system will work for legacy armies, you'll probably only have the availability of the following in mk4:

6 warcasters = 26%
1 battle engine = 33%
11 solos = 50%
9 units = 43%

(I excluded warjacks because those are harder to predict as there was stated to be overlap between the two armies in terms of what can be fielded)

So while Cryx, because it has two very strong themes that cover a sizeable chunk of the army, will likely end up having access to about 70% of the faction by my estimate, Khador, which had more diversity in army themes will end up with less than half the faction available.

- 2 warcasters (+2 more for the Blackfleet army = 4) = 17,3%

Theres actually 3 casters per legacy prime army, only 2 are included in the beta, so theres actually 6 casters total.

I got my starter box in and, all in all im pretty impressed with the casts. Super crisp and clean. A little light sanding to smooth a part or 2 out, nothing a person who had had to build a PP model cannot do.

Ektarina is very cool looking but..(and this is a lot on my ocd about scale) Shes BIG! Like, the size of a new chaos space marines big. At TT distance your not gonna notice, but I put her next to some of my mk3 miniatures and she is noticeably larger. I'm a proxy nut..so..this bugs me a bit. I imagine This will be less of an issue when other mins start to come out but...still bothers me.

Mind you it matter not a whit about the jacks, giant honking robot is giant next to anyone.

Overall wonderful news- I always hear the negative, its good to hear positive reviews coming in. I can get over the scale issues, I suspect.

My preview battle boxes are supposed to arrive middle of next week. I can't freaking wait.

MK4 just looks to be a larger scale than previous stuff. Given the mostly clean break nature of it, I think that's okay as long as its consistent within your own army.

EDIT: Looks like my order is out for delivery today too! Looking forward to getting my hands on them. Khador stuff was clearly running late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just finished magnetizing my jacks. Incredibly satisfying. There's enough magnets I was able to easily track the polarity and do the whole thing in about 15 minutes. Need to give them some time to see if I really screwed up, but first tests look fine.

Very clean sculpts. Need to go over them and do a final cleanup but they seem good enough that I don't really have to. Significantly less than most resins I've worked with, if only because there's no tabs to clip off.

Hrrmm...upon priming my newly magnetized jacks..there..are on some pieces, a distressing amount off layer lines. Looks like some sanding will be in order to keep those from bothering me.

The designs are first class though , I'm excited to get some paint on them

-Ray

 rayphoton wrote:

Mind you it matter not a whit about the jacks, giant honking robot is giant next to anyone.

The jacks are actually notably smaller than my existing Khador jacks. I couldn't figure out exactly why at first, but finally realized that they're significantly more realistically proportioned. The legs are about the same size (though with more armor that bulks them out a bit) and the torso has been shrunk down with less of a "skipped leg day" look. I do quick like that the different head options face different directions and do a good job of giving the same body different silhouettes. I do wish there was some posing options for the arms but the keying is very nicely done and I've spent a silly amount of time playing around with the different options.

As for the quality of the prints, I'm overall satisfied, but there's nits to pick. Assembly and cleanup was a total breeze. I have found some stepping issues as I paint that probably could have been found if I had spent more prep time. It does have this weird effect where I know its there, but can't really see it until its a few inches from my face. The Dire Wolf is notably worse than the Great Bear and the weapons seem to have more issues than the bodies. I haven't found any issues with the caster sculpt; it feels like its just another resin I've worked with. Painted up, the Great Bear is definitely one of the better looking jacks in my collection. Definitely not a perfect production process and there are absolutely flaws, but as someone who generally takes a lot of issue with layer lines in 3D prints, I'm pretty happy they seem to be minimal enough not to distract me from the sculpt as a whole, particularly given how many rounded surfaces Khador jacks have.

In terms of cost you're definitely paying for all the arm options. They easily make up over half the material, even as much as 2/3rds. There seems to be a lot of game behind them though and in playing around with the preview rules there's really only maybe 5 of the 16 arm options that aren't jumping out at me as having a place. I am really looking forward to getting these on the table and doing some 25 point games to test out different loadouts. Overall, feeling pretty positive about it.

Release of initial models/starter sets sort of delayed.

https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/10/04/mkiv-progress-report/?fbclid=IwAR1HGrOIqi4zXfOs7DENwpPFVo_J4UvSrSABQvX8vA8uCEn00uIEN3wCJiE

Here’s the abbreviated version, if you’re short on time:

- Sea Raiders and Storm Legion Starters release date is moving to later in the quarter.
- The WARMACHINE app Beta is on schedule and due to release at the end of October.
- The extra time has allowed us to add more new poses to Sea Raider and Storm Legion infantry units so no two troopers in a unit look the same.
- We are working with a UK-based 3D printing company that will be taking on a portion of our production to minimize the initial delay. In the future, they will supply our customers - in the UK and EU, minimizing shipping time and expense and ensuring consistent availability of product to the UK and EU.
- Thanks to the additional production bandwidth this partnership brings, we might be able to see some Dusk: House Kallyss on the table sooner than later!

Seems like several good moves being made.

Given it took 2 months to get my preview models from Gencon.... I am not surprised by this at all.

Kind of a bummer, but locally the Legacy armies were going to get the first crack at it anyway. Warmachine has never had the "new addition/new army" culture I see in other games and while there's a handful jumping on Cygnar/Orgoth, the majority was always going to be looking at their revamped collection.

"With the start of production of the Core Army Starters pushed back, we took the time to revisit our contents and create additional poses for the infantry units in both the Sea Raiders and Storm Legion Starters, so there will be no duplicate trooper poses in any of their units. We’ve also gone back to sculpts to add supporting elements or re-engineer elements that are prone to breakage in an effort to deliver an ever-improving product."

Nice - I'm glad they fixed the duplicates (and that apparently that won't be a thing going forward). Also never really though about how, with 3d printing they'd be able to easily go back and tinker with existing sculpts. I'd seen a few complaints about bent/broken weapons with the new kits, so nice they are shoring up supports.

Also interesting they blame some of the delay on having a big influx of orders for older minis they had to spend time casting/packing. Apparently a lot of people wanted to finish their armies before MKIV hit.

Schmapdi wrote:


Also interesting they blame some of the delay on having a big influx of orders for older minis they had to spend time casting/packing. Apparently a lot of people wanted to finish their armies before MKIV hit.

That was partially their own fault. The preview boxes were $75 and free shipping was $100 so it was an obvious time to pick up some random extras.

Also interesting they blame some of the delay on having a big influx of orders for older minis they had to spend time casting/packing. Apparently a lot of people wanted to finish their armies before MKIV hit.

Not a surprise at all, that is exactly what our group has been doing, mostly since we are still going to be playing MK III we wanted to get all the stuff they were not going to continue before it went away.

Same. I used to have all of the merc solos, but after the Mk4 news broke I had a look through my collection and discovered that about 40% of them have gone missing, probably during my last house move. I have been frantically trying to replace them before they become impossible to get lol

More Armies from the legacy factions, including Hordes, image heavy.



Disappointed by the lack of Jaga Jaga in Blindwater, I really like her model.

Only Kreoss2 in the Exemplar force? Aren't all his incarnations Exemplars?

Well sure, but do you really want the three allowed casters to be Kreoss, Kreoss, and Kreoss?

Alas, poor Ashlynn..

 AduroT wrote:
Well sure, but do you really want the three allowed casters to be Kreoss, Kreoss, and Kreoss?

Yes.

I just really like Kreoss.

 Siygess wrote:
Alas, poor Ashlynn..

Llael shall resist!

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Siygess wrote:
Alas, poor Ashlynn..

Llael shall resist!

Resist what? Llael’s free.

 AduroT wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Siygess wrote:
Alas, poor Ashlynn..

Llael shall resist!

Resist what? Llael’s free.

Not free to be represented in these lists!

Interesting to see for the retribution list rysovass defenders, archers, priest, aelyth vyr. All of them were in defenders theme only. Maybe there's a chance AFG also makes the cut? Please?

I'm curious about the models from mk3 that are still prime legal. Will they still be produced/available?

 emanuelb wrote:


I'm curious about the models from mk3 that are still prime legal. Will they still be produced/available?

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that anything that in NOT in prime will eventually be discontinued and phased out of production. But it will be more as moulds break etc.

However PP only has a finite capacity so I expect that as they need that production/factory space for new stuff, old things will just get dropped. I expect that while unlimited will be popular for a while, PP is going to put little to no resources into it other than initial release so expect new and prime models to just be better, thus driving any community towards buying the new hotness. Short version, if its not i prime, its not going to be supported or balanced.

So if you want to buy 3 units of Kossak Woodsmen, go ahead, just don't expect them to be relevant to PP or the game in a years time.

Sunno wrote:
Release of initial models/starter sets sort of delayed.

https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/10/04/mkiv-progress-report/?fbclid=IwAR1HGrOIqi4zXfOs7DENwpPFVo_J4UvSrSABQvX8vA8uCEn00uIEN3wCJiE

Here’s the abbreviated version, if you’re short on time:

- Sea Raiders and Storm Legion Starters release date is moving to later in the quarter.
- The WARMACHINE app Beta is on schedule and due to release at the end of October.
- The extra time has allowed us to add more new poses to Sea Raider and Storm Legion infantry units so no two troopers in a unit look the same.
- We are working with a UK-based 3D printing company that will be taking on a portion of our production to minimize the initial delay. In the future, they will supply our customers - in the UK and EU, minimizing shipping time and expense and ensuring consistent availability of product to the UK and EU.
- Thanks to the additional production bandwidth this partnership brings, we might be able to see some Dusk: House Kallyss on the table sooner than later!

So I see they've decided to kill the game at birth in EU by making them pay custom charges by ordering from the UK.

Well, that certainly helps me avoid any kind of interest I might have had in, after seeing the prices.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Siygess wrote:
Alas, poor Ashlynn..

Llael shall resist!

Resist what? Llael’s free.

Not free to be represented in these lists!

A proper Llael army is the kind of thing PP has been trying to make for years that is really well suited to the new Army release style.

Thinking on this a bit more since I've seen it come up a few times here and there; one of the BIG themes that's been missing from the game for a while is Gun Mages. They just never quite fit with the directions Cygnar has primarily taken (Trenchers and Storm Tech), but they'd be pretty perfect to repurpose as a major part of a proper Llael army. Could easily pull in a lot of the Precursor stuff that's never quite had a home too.