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Tyran wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Foot Nids getting better without Flying Nids getting worse. Flyrants arent really OP anymore in the current meta, so Id hate to see them nerfed in the name of variety. Instead, I just want the rest of the book brought up to that level.

To be fair, the entire meta is basically burning, 8th edition will be a clean slate with a new meta.

I get what you are saying, but is there any factual reason to believe that the power level of the meta is being reeled back in? Or is that just speculation?

Theres hope with the stance gw is taking, but when orks got their update, they nerfed the gak out of stuff that was passable just to make the other stuff more take-able rather than bringing it all up to snuff.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Foot Nids getting better without Flying Nids getting worse. Flyrants arent really OP anymore in the current meta, so Id hate to see them nerfed in the name of variety. Instead, I just want the rest of the book brought up to that level.

To be fair, the entire meta is basically burning, 8th edition will be a clean slate with a new meta.

I get what you are saying, but is there any factual reason to believe that the power level of the meta is being reeled back in? Or is that just speculation?

GW stated that it is new rules for everyone and that the current codices will be pretty much useless.

Also they stated there will 3 modes to play, one being competitive.

everything at this stage is pure speculation..

All we know for sure is that there will be new rules by the years end, and that the current codex's will no longer be in use =D

so then back to the original question, what would we like to see? I'm sure core rules will be changed but as always I'm sure the game will fundamentally stay true to itself, so just working with that how we would like to see units in the dex perform in regards to each other, rather than the rest of the game, who's dexes lets just assume for the sake of it will all end out around the same power level, ours included.



I'd like to see Synapse become an actual army ability, rather than a restriction. I'm all for units acting erratically if they fall outside of Synapse range, and I don't think the current table is TERRIBLE with a few tweaks, but I think Synapse needs to give some decent buffs while inside of it. Eternal Warrior, Fearless and +1A might be nice. Don't force us to tax Synapse tax units, it just makes list building unfun. Stop pricing units higher for having it. Make it an army mechanic that at the start of the game we get to auto spore in like 4 synapse pegs, but that can be attacked by an enemy to punish bad positioning.


I think 6" speed dedicated CC units that don't get assault vehicles are a flawed concept, MC base size even more so. They are a gimmick and always will be, no matter how good you make them they will either be completely unreliable way to apply damage (see the Dimae), or you will eventually give them so much ridiculous CC gak that eventually they will be ~100 pt Swarmlords that are just too cost effective not to be spammed even if some of them don't make it to combat (imagine Dima with more buffs to its CC). Just make sensible design, give them a way to make it to combat - other armies MC's are range based for christ sake and move double this speed.

I'd like a playable monstrous creature troop unit. I personally much prefer Big Nids to blowing points on fodder, I don't mind the odd pack of Gargoyles sometimes, but silly troop tax like useless mines or spending the extra points to get a scoring but still mostly useless squad of Horms kinda sucks. This is pretty much the Tervigon's role, would love to see it made decent, but being able to alter the FOC and turn Fexes or something into troops would be dope as a condition for going all MC.
On this note, I think most the infantry in our dex in general is overcosted and needs a points reduction. I'm fine with them being trash but winning through numbers, but you need to be able to pull numbers out without significantly impacting your army or even costing you another MC for one squad of Gants, its never gonna be worth it. Let alone the cost of something like a squad of Rav's or Shrikes. Ouch.





And then just quality of life fixes, tiny things that would make units playable. E.G. Fix the damn Trygon tunnels, let units can come through the same turn and bam he has a role (maybe a point reduction too though). Fix our AT, Crone and Tyrannofex are not flawed by design, but simply flawed by the subpar quality of their overpriced AT weapons. Same story for Zopes. I think Flyrant's are good design, their mobility lets us hit at rear armor. They are quite a power unit in comparison to the rest of the dex though. Making it so that you can't just spam them is probably a good start toward balancing that, and if Flyer's survivability is toned down, then I think they deserve a points reduction to go with it.


I like how the psychic phase works, it's cool and makes sense. I hate our borderline useless table, and there should be more buffs like Onslaught and less crap like the maledictions.




Just my casual opinions that I'm open to be swayed on, but I think changes like this would be nice towards the internal balance of our dex.

On thing, movement will be a stat, with hormagaunts supposed to be faster than Eldar (which in turn are faster than Guardsmen).

And initiative will be gone, with charging units striking first, WS will be a fixed role like BS and more wounds for everyone, as multi-wound weapons will be more common.

Oh and vehicles and MCs will be one type.

From what I have read so far, it sounds like this is going to be the edition for swarms as their two biggest vulnerabilities (area of effect weapons and poor anti-vehicle capability) are being eliminated in one swift stroke. Supposedly vehicles are having their unique armor values thrown out in favor of something similar to the behemoth rules in Age of Sigmar and complete immunity to damage due to too low of strength is supposedly being thrown out as well (whether this means a 6 will always wound or some new system that allows one to roll a 7+ if needed remains to be seen). As for templates, the general speculation is that they are going away for good and will probably end up being replaced with a random number of hits ala Age of Sigmar, meaning such weapons probably aren't going to be quite as effective against massed bodies as they are presently (plus no need to worry about spacing anymore).


Still, I don't think speculation based on what our current book does will get very far in regards to whatever they have planned for us in 8th edition. I imagine virtually everything will end up being rebuilt from the ground up that very few units will be recognizable outside of their basic roles (Warriors as synaptic troops for instance).


Edit: Guess I spoke a little too soon. The 40k community page apparently put up a few of the new stat lines as examples of what to expect. (link). Also mentions Hormagaunts will run faster than Eldar (who in turn out run Guardsmen) and shows Terminators are a bit slower than they are currently.

It's too hard to tell, but I like a clean slate. And if we're getting rid of all of these ridiculous combos, I can only see good things for the bugs. But we'll see as time gets closer.


Btw, 40K is getting Sigmar'd....

Nice, so we might finally get 12" Horms and other useful cc Nids. I can't imagine Orks will still be moving any faster Gaurdsmen speed as well (although obviously with Trukks to make up for it), but finally something beneficial to separate our style of assault units from theirs, rather than just being flat worse. I'm sure Orks will still be the premier assault army (thematically I mean, that is to say excluding Deathstars and the like) but we will no doubt keep our bullet dice to make up for it, and that's how I like it.

I actually don't think we will see drastic changes to the role and kit of many units, in MOST cases (I'm sure the odd unit here and there might get the odd rework, especially Psykers). For the most part though I'm thinking steps will probably be taken to make most units useable. There's gotta be a thousand or so units in the game, reimagining every single one on top of writing a brand new ruleset, is not only impractical but also un-necessary, and also extremely difficult considering at the end of the day the sprues all have the same gear and add-ons that they will have to make new roles for, and that's not even changes likely to go down well if they did do that. Something like the Maleceptor might be liable for some real changes, but something like the Tyranid Warriors will likely stay almost identical, with any main changes being in points. That's my SPECULATION any way, I don't think TOO much is going to change there.

I gotta say though I'm very excited by the idea of Horms being of the fastest type of Infantry, especially since it speaks to me that these guys are putting some care into making Tyranids unique. Stands to reason this will probably happen with the Dimae too, who stands to be potentially one of the bigger winners of the army in the new edition when you consider that they are striving to improve CC in general as well.

Also, initiative changes are big too, considering we really just have average initiative (outside of Stealers and Lictors) and often don't even get to use it due to lack of grenades.

Got 40 Hormagaunts that still need painting.. they may actually get done after the rules come out.. But I am looking forward to hopefully my good old Carnifex being good once again (hopefully)

GodDamUser wrote:
Got 40 Hormagaunts that still need painting.. they may actually get done after the rules come out.. But I am looking forward to hopefully my good old Carnifex being good once again (hopefully)

It's already a great unit, I wouldn't expect any direct buffs there. Maybe it will benefit from the new core rules, I guess with the extra wounds and them being the most spammable MC there might be an improvement there, and he might not get tarpitted so easily with decent combat mechanics (probably needs a WS buff though).

Howdy all, I've been "out of the loop", health probs, as always I saw a few teasers about 8th today, that look like they don't stink.. But they were only Imperial food beasts, any Xeno info around?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Got 40 Hormagaunts that still need painting.. they may actually get done after the rules come out.. But I am looking forward to hopefully my good old Carnifex being good once again (hopefully)

It's already a great unit, I wouldn't expect any direct buffs there. Maybe it will benefit from the new core rules, I guess with the extra wounds and them being the most spammable MC there might be an improvement there, and he might not get tarpitted so easily with decent combat mechanics (probably needs a WS buff though).

It Seems like units are no longer locked into combat, so "tarpitting" may no longer be a thing. I dunno if that is good, or bad. Most likely its just differant. I'd really like seeing Tyranids get their MC Mojo back.

pinecone77 wrote:
Howdy all, I've been "out of the loop", health probs, as always I saw a few teasers about 8th today, that look like they don't stink.. But they were only Imperial food beasts, any Xeno info around?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Got 40 Hormagaunts that still need painting.. they may actually get done after the rules come out.. But I am looking forward to hopefully my good old Carnifex being good once again (hopefully)

It's already a great unit, I wouldn't expect any direct buffs there. Maybe it will benefit from the new core rules, I guess with the extra wounds and them being the most spammable MC there might be an improvement there, and he might not get tarpitted so easily with decent combat mechanics (probably needs a WS buff though).

It Seems like units are no longer locked into combat, so "tarpitting" may no longer be a thing. I dunno if that is good, or bad. Most likely its just differant. I'd really like seeing Tyranids get their MC Mojo back.

Only confirmed Xeno info is that Eldar move faster than Guardsmen, and Hormagaunts move faster than both. No specifics though.

Well, in the latest teaser they mentioned the Swarmlord will hit in melee on 2s, so there's something specific.

BTW, remember that the new edition not only will have new rules for our codex units, but for all our units including our bio-titans.

 jy2 wrote:
It's too hard to tell, but I like a clean slate. And if we're getting rid of all of these ridiculous combos, I can only see good things for the bugs. But we'll see as time gets closer.


Btw, 40K is getting Sigmar'd....

Jim, have you been part of the play testing done using the new rules? If so, I know you are under an NDA of sorts but I would be curious to hear how you think it shapes things for Nids, in broad strokes of course?

pinecone77 wrote:
Howdy all, I've been "out of the loop", health probs, as always I saw a few teasers about 8th today, that look like they don't stink.. But they were only Imperial food beasts, any Xeno info around?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Got 40 Hormagaunts that still need painting.. they may actually get done after the rules come out.. But I am looking forward to hopefully my good old Carnifex being good once again (hopefully)

It's already a great unit, I wouldn't expect any direct buffs there. Maybe it will benefit from the new core rules, I guess with the extra wounds and them being the most spammable MC there might be an improvement there, and he might not get tarpitted so easily with decent combat mechanics (probably needs a WS buff though).

It Seems like units are no longer locked into combat, so "tarpitting" may no longer be a thing. I dunno if that is good, or bad. Most likely its just differant. I'd really like seeing Tyranids get their MC Mojo back.

Tarpitting as a permanent lockdown is no longer a thing, but the unit falling back out of combat cannot do anything at all that turn. The 'drag in extra units with your 3" Pile In' mechanic has potential; think of big waves of Hormagaunts crashing into a unit with a really wide coverage, eating a degree of Overwatch and then "oh look, I can rope in those units on the flanks of the unit I charged as well... do you want to be in CC next turn or fall back to safety but do nothing?". Staying in CC holds the extra units in place ready to be swamped next turn, and if they choose to fall back then great, no incoming firepower.

I imagine we'll go back to wave tactics with fast disposable units (Hormagaunts and Gargoyles) hitting first to grapple with targets, and then have the heavy lifters move in on the following turn. Really fast high quality assault units (Raveners?) will probably be awesome because they can divebomb targets of opportunity from significant range to capitalise on whatever units you've managed to grapple with your first wave.

Well, I've got a bit to say about the overall future of Tyranids. The fact that templates are gone is a great change for us. We don't need to worry about 2in spacing between models now so I can shove plenty of my troops down my opponents throat. That being said, for all of you just chucking out the idea that moving is going to be easier now for mass hordes, please take it to heart that hormagaunts still spill over their bases by quite a margin and you will have to deal with that. Gargoyles will be a pain.

I accept the idea that MCs will get worse as they are hurt, but remember some crucial things guys; We don't happen to have a ton of high strength shooting here, so expect to not get full mileage from any of your larger bugs. It seems we may get back sizable control over the psychic phase since it seems like each faction only has a set table of spells to pull from, while they know everything on it, and it seems like invisibility may be gone. The issue for deny is now that you have to to be within 12in or so to actually attempt it, and how many armies actually have more psykers than us? Expect the option to upgrade to Psyker models to be more valuable than before. Broodlords should be fairly fun considering they are dedicated CC, which will translate into better to hit in 8th.

One thing that will be absolutely vital to us in this next edition is multi assaulting. Remember, with alternating unit activations, you do not go for their biggest guys, but rather the next unit in sequence that hasn't gone yet. I know it sounds odd, but don't be hasty to just charge in. The extra threat ranges give you 4 inches of problems, since you have to pile in on the closest enemy. Overwatch is unlimited. Hitting 2 units sounds great, but not when you take unnecessary fire. In 8th, our best chances seem to come in hedging a rough 1.5 to 1 odds.

I wonder if any of the Termagant weapons will count as pistols, such as the Spinefists.

 luke1705 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
It's too hard to tell, but I like a clean slate. And if we're getting rid of all of these ridiculous combos, I can only see good things for the bugs. But we'll see as time gets closer.


Btw, 40K is getting Sigmar'd....

Jim, have you been part of the play testing done using the new rules? If so, I know you are under an NDA of sorts but I would be curious to hear how you think it shapes things for Nids, in broad strokes of course?

Sorry, but I haven't. Though I have been playing more Sigmar lately than 40K, so I kinda have an idea of where the new edition's going.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I wonder if any of the Termagant weapons will count as pistols, such as the Spinefists.

Been wondering the seame, I am currently assembling termagants and leaving them without hands, but I presume I would put spinefists on them. With the wound table and cc shooting rule, spinefists would definitely be the way to go.

Not be so sure, the new wound table will make fleshborers far better against t6 and t7 targets (which will be most vehicles and MC). S3 wounds t6 and t7 on a 6+ while s4 will do it in a 5+.

Did you guys hear? There are no more Independent Characters. That means each HQ will be on his own. However, his protection would be that you cannot shoot at him if there is another enemy model closer.

Good times for our bugs, perhaps?

At the very least, this does away with super-deathstars or even normal deathstars.

 jy2 wrote:
Did you guys hear? There are no more Independent Characters. That means each HQ will be on his own. However, his protection would be that you cannot shoot at him if there is another enemy model closer.

Good times for our bugs, perhaps?

At the very least, this does away with super-deathstars or even normal deathstars.

If that holds true, it would be Very nice!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And it might make my "Winged Assassin" Tyrant a force once again.

So with the new "IC" rules and how blasts are a thing of the past does this mean we can finally have walking Tyrants behind Carnifex squads (or even behind hormigaunts running up the field with only snipers able to hurt them? or are they gonna stick us with a version of the old "kill the big ones" rule that wrecked our ground forces back in 4th? I really hope to see more wounds on most of our MC's in this edition.

I'm not sure the Hive Tyrant will get the character status.

More likely it will not be targetable if it is close to Tyrant Guard.

Latest news.....twin-linked weapons now fire double the number of shots. Hello dakkarants and dakkafexes!

Btw, in the "old" system, a dakkarant would average 10.67 hits. In the "new" system, the dakkarant would average 16 hits!!!

I want my Carnis to be oldschool hth wrecking machines though. Not mobile weapons platforms :(

Carnifexes will probably inflict D6 dmg in cc.

Tyrants maybe D3 dmg in cc.

Regular grubs 1 dmg.

Tyran wrote:
I'm not sure the Hive Tyrant will get the character status.

More likely it will not be targetable if it is close to Tyrant Guard.

I'm guessing the Tyrant Guard will probably change from a stand-alone unit to part of the Tyrant's unit instead (i.e. composition 1 Hive Tyrant, 0-3 Tyrant Guard). They already share the same toughness and save, so it won't break the "no mixed save/toughness units" theme they have for the edition and fluff-wise Tyrant Guard are always bonded to a Tyrant, they don't wander about by their lonesome unless their charge is killed.

 jy2 wrote:
Latest news.....twin-linked weapons now fire double the number of shots. Hello dakkarants and dakkafexes!

Btw, in the "old" system, a dakkarant would average 10.67 hits. In the "new" system, the dakkarant would average 16 hits!!!

That's assuming Brainleech Devourers will remain 6 shot weapons. It wouldn't surprise me if they dropped to 3 shots each as the old rules seemed to be written with the assumption they would always come in pairs and regular Devourers have 3 shots each...

That said, I'm more intrigued with the change to blasts. Harpies suddenly look rather attractive as damage dealers with 2D3 Venom Cannon Shots or 2D6 Stranglethorn Shots. Granted, with fliers having their own force-org chart they might have to compete with flying Tyrants, depending on whether the new edition has mixed role units like Age of Sigmar.

 jy2 wrote:
Carnifexes will probably inflict D6 dmg in cc.

Tyrants maybe D3 dmg in cc.

Regular grubs 1 dmg.

I doubt it, as all of the damage values have been tied to weapons and I can't see Scything Talons doing multiple damage based on how ubiquitous they are. That said, I could see Boneswords doing D3 damage (D6 paired) and Crushing Claws doing D6. Curious to see what Rending Claws end up doing too, since in Shadow War they have a -3 AP (-2 base and -1 for their wielders being S4) and allow rerolling to wound rolls.

Also speaking of Shadow War, they added Devourers to the biomorph list for 40 points.

 jy2 wrote:
Latest news.....twin-linked weapons now fire double the number of shots. Hello dakkarants and dakkafexes!

Btw, in the "old" system, a dakkarant would average 10.67 hits. In the "new" system, the dakkarant would average 16 hits!!!

Wow! Just think, my Spinegaunts might be better as well... But Moar Dakka is good.