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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I think a big question for eldar players after the new codex comes out is whether to run scatter lasers or shruken cannons on there falcons/vipers.  The Scatter Laser has an extra shot and increases the range by 12", but also costs 10 pts more. 

My personal opinion is that it is not cost effective.  All of your vehicles will already be carrying a Shruken Catapult standard, so upgrading the second weapon mount to a Scatter Laser for additional range is pointless imo.  If you come to the conclusion that the additional range is irrelevant 90% of the time, you are left with 1 additional shot for 10 pts. (also inefficient imo)  Of course, if you feel the range will be relevant,  then the  Scatter Laser does  look like a very attractive option. 

discuss.

Be Joe Cool. 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

This has been a subjet on my mind alot lately, so Ill play too.

it depends, in my mind, on setting.

If your in city terrain, the shuriken cannon is the winner hands down. range isnt important in such a case. You may as well save the points and stick with the shuri cannon.

in normal tournament games where terrain seems to be a pipe dream at best sometimes, I really side with the scatterlaser. better range and increased shots.

I am thinking that the scatter lasers price is based on the shuri cannon. +5 pts for the extra shot. +5 pts for the increased range. (with the detriment of decreased ap)

They really should have thrown gav's codex out the window with scorn and started from scratch, instead of tweaking what he had.

I wasnt overly impressed then, and I am not now either. But I will admit at first glance this all seems a step in the right direction.

   
Made in us
Dangerous Skeleton Captain




Honolulu, HI

Assumeing were dealing with MEQs of course...

For standard tournament play I think Hellfury nailed it...theres going to be too many times when you dont want someone to take a pot shot with a special weapon and still need to try to take off a couple casulties.

Anyone who experimented with non star cannon armies during the previous codex realizes that S6 weapons with no AP require quantity...no shock there. This sounds stupid but it seems like the Eldar Codex will pretty much mandate the Falcons hunt Termies, Dreads, Tanks, and Dev Squads with a payload of Fire Dragons. (Fire Dragons intending to be the equivalent of 2x 3ed star cannons or better than 7 short range Bright lances)

Going for large-ish Tactical squad equivalents will still leave you open to Specials and HVY if the unit doesnt fall back or get destroyed, waisting your FD/Falconborne choice on bolter MEQs... just not a whole lot of payoff in going after troop choices...if your planning on engaging these you might as well save the points and get the ShCan.

Im just not sold on the B3 Falcon being better than FPrism for Tank Hunting or better than the Wave Serpent for Troop Transport... I like the twin Linked option on a WS too much, not to mention that I can still add the SHCannon and upgrades. I dont think the Pulse Laser is enough to make the Falcon a good choice anymore with out the old Star Cannon.

I hate to say it, as it sounds stupid, I think adding a bright Lance may be a good option. (Im of the opinion Id rather have the 1x BL shot hit 50% (say 3x troop kills & possible vehicles) vs. Star cannons hitting 6x vs troops/somewhat ineffectively against armour) The BL atleast compliments the Pulse laser and gives you added tank pop setting up whatever the contents of your Falcon are...IMO.


Ft Shafter
 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





Los Angeles

My current eldar build is based totaly around range so it seems like a no brainer to go with the scatter laser. 12" extra range and an extra shot for only 10 points! Sign me up. I find that with the general expense of the weapon platform (110 for a wave serpent, 50 for a vyper, or more for a falcon) that the incramental 10 extra points spent on a good weapon is almost always worth it. In the case of the cheeper platforms (aka the vyper) I can see going with the cheeper option as possibly being a viable way to go. For the same price you can get 5 vypers with scatter lasers (20 shots a round) or 6 with shuriken cannons (18 shots per round). Hummm... actualy maybe even then its not worth it. You end up with less shots and a shorter range, which in turn also means you tend to die faster.

So, it would seem to me that scatter lasers would be the way to go.

**** Phoenix ****

Threads should be like skirts: long enough to cover what's important but short enough to keep it interesting. 
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

If you come to the conclusion that the additional range is irrelevant 90% of the time


I'd say it's the opposite--the additional range is key 90% of the time, especially for a vyper.

Every army in the book has a weapon that can knock out a vyper with one shot at range 24. One lucky rokkit, gauss rifle, boltgun or dinky plasma gun (probably the most common weapon in the game) can do it easily. The number of things that can knock out a vyper at range 36 is much smaller.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Pirate Ship Revenge

I'd be taking the longer range, hands down.
An example; I own two Land Speeders, one is a Tornado (HB, AC) and the other is a Typhoon (HB, ML). When used alone the Tornado rarely, if ever, survives a game. It does a great deal of damage but it doesn't last. That Typhoon on the other hand is still on the table at the end of most games.
My point?
The longer range guns of the typhoon keep it out of harm's way and in the fight. I'm not claiming that it's the better choice but the range keeps it in the game.
A scatter Laser armed Vyper is more likely to stay in and therefore take more shots. And it has more shots.
No contest for me.

I have nothing useful to add.
http://otzone.proboards34.com/index.cgi>the OT
Welp, that link ain't no good nomore. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




the spire of angels

Posted By Zubbiefish on 10/21/2006 9:25 AM
I'd be taking the longer range, hands down.
An example; I own two Land Speeders, one is a Tornado (HB, AC) and the other is a Typhoon (HB, ML). When used alone the Tornado rarely, if ever, survives a game. It does a great deal of damage but it doesn't last. That Typhoon on the other hand is still on the table at the end of most games.
My point?
The longer range guns of the typhoon keep it out of harm's way and in the fight. I'm not claiming that it's the better choice but the range keeps it in the game.
A scatter Laser armed Vyper is more likely to stay in and therefore take more shots. And it has more shots.
No contest for me.



there is a problem with that comparison- an infantry MEQ can take down a speeder with his regular small arms-boltgun etc... any big skimmer like those used by tau and eldar require a heavy wapon to even hurt them(except necrons). so your generally going to have far less stuff shooting at them(but it is stuff that generally has enough range to hit you anywhere you go anyway)  hence they will survive better even at shorter ranges. to me the optimum build for a serpent is spirit stone, TL bright lance and a shuriken cannon simple to make you a threat to tanks and troops. add 12" to thet range for you fast skimmer movement and thats your actual effective range.

 

i do something similar with my fish-with smart missles and burst cannons i am usually in range to shoot with something after i move 12" and they survive very well...although the decoy launchers help alot


"victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none" 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Pirate Ship Revenge

I agree with you for large skimmers but I'm talking about a Vyper.
They're wee...


I have nothing useful to add.
http://otzone.proboards34.com/index.cgi>the OT
Welp, that link ain't no good nomore. 
   
 
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