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Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





My 'acolytes'  are looking at starting WHFB armies.  Some, I can help them with, but for the beginning of efficient armies for some races, I have no clue; especially at low points.

I'm looking for 1000 point WHFB armies that can be expanded into decent, but NOT 'cheesy' , Rogue Trader tournament armies that are effective and flluffy for the following races.

Lizardmen

Dark Elf

Orc & Goblin - new book

Warrior oriented Chaos.

Dark Elf/Chaos hybrid

Ogres.

I'm too lazy to spend the time and lack the evil experience to analyze all of these armies and make recommendations.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Lizardmen can be built in all sorts of configurations and still be effective. You probably wouldn't want more than one block of Saurus in 1k pts (at most two little 10 model units), but otherwise you can mix and match pretty well. Skinks are great, and almost all the support units are great. Jungle Swarms are probably the only "avoid" at this point, as they suffer under the 7th ed swarm rules. Maybe a block of 10 Saurus, a saurus hero and a skink shaman for a little magic, two-three units of skinks, a unit of kroxigors, a unit of salamanders and one of terradons, and maybe a small unit of saurus cold one riders. Something like that would be around 1k.

Dark Elves are pretty good, though Elves in general have issues in terms of high cost, low-durability. Dark Riders are excellent, and DE spears are the cheapest elf ranked infantry, and really aren't bad. DE shooting can actually be kind of nasty at lower points values. A spearblock or two, a couple of units of crossbowmen with shields, some dark riders, RBTs, maybe a cold one chariot or two, should be pretty solid and fun.

Orcs & Goblins are spoiled for choice. Tons of units, multiple ways to play the army. Basic Orc infantry just got very good for the points in the new book, while Goblins got a points increase.

Chaos Warriors are slow point sinks, for the most part. The Knights are great, and Marauders get you rank bonus for a better points cost than the Warriors themselves. A beast herd or two make excellent skirmishing support, and beasts also have nice cheap chariots. Maybe two Exalted Champs, or an Exalted + Aspiring BSB, or a hero and mage, mounted. Add two blocks of Marauders, two units of warhounds for diverting and screening, a unit of knights, a unit of marauder cav, a beast herd, a small unit of Furies, and maybe a chariot or two as points allow.

Ogres I don't really know.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Chaos and Lizard possibilities:

Exalted Champion on steed, some magic toys (around 180)
L1 Bray Shaman, Dispel Scroll (100)
5 Chosen Chaos Knights, mus, (235)
5 Marauder Horseman, Spears/Shields (80)
6 Warhounds (36)
5 Warhounds (30)
21 Marauders, Light Armour; Shield; full command (179)
Special:
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
5 Furies (75)

1k even

Saurus Scar-Veteran, Sword of The Hornet, Light Armor, Shield, Blessed Spawning of Sotek 134
L2 Skink Priest, 2 scrolls (150)
10 Saurus Warriors, HW & shield (120)
12 Skink Skirmishers (72)
5 Saurus Cav, Full Command, HW, Spears, Shields (225)
3 Terradons (105)
3 Kroxigor (174)
980- can't remember how much command models for Saurus are. Actually, if you drop a scroll and the saurus cav's champion, you should have enough points to make two units of Skinks.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





Thanks Mannahnin, just the sort of info I was looking for.

 

Ogres seem to be a problem, and the Tomb Kings are hard to make competitive at 1000 points because of the compulsory characters which use over 1/3 of the points.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

Ogres and tomb kings have the same answer: buy a battalion box, and throw it on the table.

they're both close enough to competitive, and such a good deal that there's no real reason to buy seperate stuff.

Ogres:

Bruiser (convert out of one of the Iron Guts)

20 Gnoblers
3 naked bulls
3 naked bulls
3 Ironguts, full command

2 Lead belchers
2 lead belcers.

That leaves around 140 points, enough for either a butcher, or a man eater, or more bulls, or whatever strikes your fancy.  Later on you can add more ironguts, maybe add command to the bulls (a lot of OK players don't), and potentially add a second gnoblar unit.

Tomb kings are similar, buy a battalion, a tomb king in chariot, and a lich priest on steed.  I'd build 10 bowmen, the rest hand weapon and shield.  I like the heavy horsmen better, YMMV.  It's not overly competitive, but in 7th you shouldn't see magic defense at 1k.  I'd buy the banner witha  bound spell, giving you essentially three bound spells a turn.  You'll burn through their dice, and hopefully get off two spells a turn. 

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





In order to keep the Acolytes from getting into full cheese mode, from completely customizing their army for each opponent, and to prepare them for tournament play, I'm insisting on a 1000 point core, which must be a legal 1000 point army and can be used for practice battles to learn how the bits work.  They can then fill this core out to 2000 points for bigger battles.

Small armies play very different from big ones and playing small armies teaches a lot of 'technique' (and humility)

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



In El PAso, TX <Need players around here

Heres a good shot for TK's:


Heroes


Tomb Prince in chariot- GW, Chariot of fire

Liche priest- Claok of dunes, Hieratic Jar


Troops


20 Skeletons with bows- Standard, ( you shoudl remidn your player that this is wihere your LP shoudl usually reside to provide two shtos a turn adn stand next to the catapult

5 Light horsemen ( to distract frenzy boys and harass/marchbloc, they're here to die no being wussy with them)


Special


3 Chariots- standard with either undying legion banner, or warbanner. (this unit will not be a win all in combats without a king teach him to take on secondary non ranked units with it. With prince on board i can take on most smaller units)

Tomb Scorpion ( more choppy goodness and gets him used to ICFB and is one of our few fighty units)

Tomb scorpion


Rare


Screaming catapul ( they need to pay especially close attention to firing twice in one turn)t


Hey, all I know this isn't very interesting but I moved to El Paso, TX AKA nowheresville so if you live here or Las Cruces and wanna game PM me sometime! 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





While I'm on the subject, here's my 1000 point VC army.

Necromancer/General, level 2 on nightmare with BoA and BP.

Wight Lord with lance, heavy armor and shield on barded nightmare with CB.

3 x 5 Dire Wolves +1 Wolf

2 x 5 Dark Knights

1 x 9 Dark Knights, with Hell Knight, and full command on barded horses with BoB.

Very fragile but maneuvery.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



In El PAso, TX <Need players around here

I don't wanna knock ArchMAgos's army, I know its effective I've been spanked by a variant of it before but as core choices i would go more towards a vampire and a necro. That way you get a taste of both, adn some shouls, and such.

Your friend will get that raising is important as he plays and buying basic infantry will allow him to get the models he needs if he wants to switch to a more tourney oriented army. I imagine your main thing is, is to have armies that can make a good gaming group then go form there Magos's list is a bit nasty for friendly play if used right.

It'd be like teaching the lixardman player to take a Nike Saurus ( will explain later if needed i think i got the term right?) as a former LM player myself i know you tend to get too reliant on one gimmick if it works early on and this will let them find what works.

as for chaos do as he says and stay away from on foot warriors it'll only hinder him for the time being, if he wants a foot based shock troop type of thing you may want to guide him towards a minotaur army with chaos knight buddiesm thats always fun and stompy.


Hey, all I know this isn't very interesting but I moved to El Paso, TX AKA nowheresville so if you live here or Las Cruces and wanna game PM me sometime! 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





I didn't explain well.  This is MY VC army that I will be using to combat all the other 1000 point armies.

Otherwise, I completely agree with your assessment.  The army is intended to be very nasty if used right.  On occasion I may have to play against two 1000 point armies with this one.

At 1000 points VC are hard to configure because Thralls cnnot be the General unless Necrarch, and then they cannot carry any magic items.

Dropping one unit of Knights and a unit of wolves would allow a decent sized unit of skellies that the necromancer could live in.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Not a bad choice. You might even consider using zombies for the "necro bunker", as it is sometimes called, because they cost fewer points and you get more faster when Raising to restore the unit.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





I'm kind of philosopically opposed to a single weakish infatry unit.  Although I could be adding zombies, I'm not sure I have enough magic for that.  I'm going to be working my necro hard just trying to get my army in position and at level 2, I can always try to summon a unit of zombies.

 

Of course a single unit lead by my general may become a doom magnet, which could be a good thing. 

I could probably get about 30 zombies or 20 shield and hw skeles for the unit of cavalry and dogs.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






A start for Dark Elves:

Noble, HA, Sea Dragon Cloak, Cold One Chariot 195
Sorceress, Lvl 1, Darkstar Cloak 110
5 Dark Riders, repeater xbows, musician 127
12 Warriors, repeater crossbows, sheilds 144
5 Cold One Knights, full command 190
Reaper Bolt Thrower 100

This comes out to about 846 points, allowing you to tool up the characters with some magic items (Draich of Dark Power, maybe), make the sorceress a Lvl 2, or add a couple more units- another unit of DR, or another Cold One Chariot, another unit of 12 xbow warriors, or 15 spearelves with full command.

Lower-point games play very differently from the standard 2000/2150.
Magic is easier to stop, since each side tends to have few power/dispell dice, but much more devastating when a spell does go off. I would boost the sorceress to Lvl 2 & take the Darkstar Cloak; that gives 5 power dice and two spells to use them on. I'd probably take a Soulstone to protect my investment.
The power of shooting tends to be magnified, since there are fewer targets. With repeater-armed DR, xbow warriors, and the Reaper, you can tear up one or two units every turn.
Maneuver is the heart of any Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and Elves excell at that. Dark Elves are the only race that gets fast cavalry as a core choice, and they have an 18" march/charge.

Shoot and magic the enemy for a turn or two while positioning your Dark Riders on the enemy flanks or rear, then send in combined charges from DR/CoK/CoC and break the enemy. Set it up right, and you might get to fight two combats in one turn.

He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





VC Dire Wolves are both Core and Fast Cavalry.

TK Skeleton Cavalry are both Core and Fast Cavalry.

There may be others.

Dark Riders are certainly better than the two above, but are also somewhat more expensive.

Nice DE list.  One of the students plans to go DE, another WE; they are brothers!

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






You're right!  Maybe I forget b/c DE only get three core choices, and wolves don't look like 'cavalry' to me; but there's no excuse for forgetting the TK- other than that I normally upgrade them to Heavy Cav.

He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Marauder Cav are core fast cav for Chaos mortals, Glade Riders core Fast Cav for WE, and I'm pretty sure Goblin Wolf Riders are core Fast Cav for O&G. Most armies actually seem to have core fast cav.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






") I'll shut up, then.

He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





None of which detracts from the ideas presented in the list; lots of shooty goodness with some decent magic and counter-attack units.  Like all small armies, terrain will count for a lot when determining its effectiveness.

I'd be very happy to see any other suggestions for 1000 point armies.  Does the new O&G book change anything?

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Agreed, it's a good list, Fellblade. Dark Riders are pretty darn good fast cav, BTW.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





Fellblade, what is Draich of Dark Power??  I looked through the DE book and could not find it.  Am I suffering fom STUPIDITY?

One of my students wants DE and I'm preparing to develop an army for him.  He wants at least one RBT and a couple of units of xbow Warriors.

How would this do?

1000 point Dark Elf.

Noble, Blood Armor, Lance, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Cold One Chariot 197
Sorceress, Lvl 1, Darkstar Cloak 110
5 Dark Riders, repeater xbows, musician 127
12 Warriors, repeater crossbows, sheilds 144
11 Warriors, repeater crossbows, sheilds 132
5 Cold One Knights, full command 190
Reaper Bolt Thrower 100

1000 points exactly

Is the Darkstar Cloak any use on a level 1 sorceress?  She woul have only one spell, but 4 casting dice, which she could not use all of?  With the Black Staff instead, she could use all the dice on her spell.


   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





1000 point Ogre Kingdoms

Bruiser, heavy armor, great weapon 142
Butcher, 2 tooth gnoblars 140
3 Bulls, ironfist 120
3 Bulls, ironfist 120
22 Gnoblars 44

4 Ironguts, Bull Standard, full command 214
2 Leadbelchers 110
2 Leadbelchers 110

1000 points exactly

   
 
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