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Just as long as you pick it up in Spain, you're good.
"According to Customs Directive No. 2310-011A dated January 24, 2000, "Customs officers shall permit any person arriving in the United States to import one article, which must accompany the person, bearing a counterfeit, confusingly similar, or restricted gray market trademark, provided that the article is for personal use and not for sale." Moreover, the Directive states that "Customs officers shall permit the arriving person to retain one article of each type accompanying the person." "
You're confusing things like Chinese knockoffs of Nike or "SORNY" televisions. Gamezone's HeroQuest is not anything like Moon Design's RPG, and the fact Gamezone owns HeroQuest trademark in Spain reinforces that. (Not that it would even matter, to be honest)
You can import basically whatever you want (that ain't drugs or bombs) in the USA (tax-free!)
It's the reason I can buy imported Macross Valkyrie toys despite Harmony Gold USA owning the US rights to the designs. I can order them on the internet all day long, from large companies established in the USA, or from companies that are not established in the USA, through Amazon and ebay and independent web-shops, and have them delivered from any location in the world to my doorstep, and Harmony Gold cannot do anything about.
Buying a board game from Spain called Hero Quest would get through US Customs 100% of the time, and if shipped through a global treaty recognized mail service, would be import/duty free. God bless the USA!
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
Now, you're arguing if customs has the authority, and here's what I found.
"1. Section 42 of the Lanham Act [15 U.S.C. Section 1124] and Section 526 of the Tariff Act prohibit the importation of goods which “copy or simulate” registered trademarks owned by United States citizens or corporations."
United States Customs Service Enforcement of Trademark Rights : http://www.npllptradelaw.com/us-customs-enforcement-of-trademark-rights
Moon Design believes that GZ's HQ25 is similar to their trademark. Of course, legal action would be pursued, but the burden of proof may be on the importer. "To allow a game using the same name to be promoted in the United States through Kickstarter without a license would be an unacceptable dilution of our brand and create market confusion to our detriment." : http://www.glorantha.com/background-concerning-suspension-of-gamezones-kickstarter-campaign/
If you have a citation, definitely post it!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 16:29:20
Exactly - the CPB link agrees totally, especially as the consumer is the importer for personal and not commercial purposes.
Even then, I would expect a commercial importer to be able to exist. If Moon Design challenged it, they'd have an incredibly difficult time proving that GZ's HQ25 somehow created consumer confusion - GameZone could probably successfully argue the opposite! MD's RQ and HQ are virtually unknown compared to the popularity of the original MBHQ board game, hah!
That's neither here nor there, though, as Moon Design is run by a turd and won't do anything.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
Legal threat is still a threat. Moon Design acted like C-words and decided to scare US backers promising legal action.
Importing grey market goods is not a crime, whatever Moon Design will like to scare US backers into believing. At most its a civil dispute. The goods have legal standing in Spain.
What US backers need to do is for the games to be sent through a reshipper who opens the boxes. An opened box, even once makes the product used, used grey market products become regular personal property. The restrictions apply to new packaged goods. Second hand goods to not qualify because any item can become second hand and be moved, or even sold after the legal licence of the product has expired. Both would end up a legal quagmire.
So for example West End Games held a Star Wars licence in the 80's, the current Star Wars miniatures/RPG gaming licence is held by Fantasy Flight, such licences are as expected expensive and litigiously guarded. However selling new or second hand West End Games items on eBay or bringing them across international boundaries is no violation of current licencing limitations.
Just about the only items that don't have a legal resale value, other than consumables are licenced software or underwear.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
But they have placed enough of a block to get the KS project shut down, have threatened legal action if sales within the US are attempted and have threatened backers with nebulous threats, by claiming that backers may be civilly and criminally liable if they import copies of HQ25 from Spain. Inthe interveneing time they have said little to nothing else, but have not withdrawn or countered the threats against the backer community. The latter are extra-legal threats and are just a means of scarring backers and potential backers. It was reacted to with some anger by a portion of the backer community who could see that Moon Design had overstepped what it could actually achieve against backers. Hence why I have still not forgotten this.
Companies going after each other on IP disputes is common course, scaremongering customers with phantom threats of criminal action is beyond the fething pale.
Harmony Gold, for all its bad press and bile have never threatened Battletech players with criminal charges for having unseen mechs in their collection. Not that that would in any way work as a specific example, but you get the idea.
Let me find you the quote..........................ere we are, it kicks off on page 9 of this thread.
Just delurking to make it clear that GZ cannot legally ship to the US a product using the "Heroquest" TM and that US Customs will be notified. Please be aware that not only does US Customs destroy goods seized for violation of US Trademark law, but significant monetary penalties may also be assessed by US Customs for violations involving the importation of goods bearing counterfeit marks.
If GZ wants to rename their product something that does not use that trademark, that problem at least goes away. But unless they do, US backers (at least) should be aware that there is a good chance they will not get what they paid for (and that they have the risk of getting fined by US Customs).
Regards -
Jeff
Just to reiterate the legal threats are not accurate and targeted at the wrong people. 'Significant monetary penalties' is just a douche way of saying: 'If you back this rival game in the US you are a criminal, signed douche'.
Yes its just an internet post, but its an internet post from someone who was/is a Moon Design company executive which has already engaged in hostile litigation on this topic.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/24 20:01:58
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
It's a real shame that this project has been so ridiculously bogged down. I would love to be able to purchase this game, but I am glad I stood back from the crowdfunding at the time. If it is ever available for purchase in the normal way I will be all over it.
And yes, this is a rather douchey move on their part, but it seems rather toothless.
Toothless is enough if its official looking and scary looking and uses names of heavyweight statutory bodies as placeholders for phantom enforcers. That's a lot of worry for some humble gamer and his hobby money to deal with. A threat of a legal bite and chewing out may or may not have teeth, but can customers afford to take that chance? And note it might be expensive to get oneself informed as to what is within the bite, legal representation is not free.
Which in turn is why I have not forgiven Moon Design. Its a step on the average joe who is in the way and only wants to play a game. IP legal threat and bluster is for corporations not customers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/25 17:59:17
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
They're claiming that they own the rights to the name here in the USA, have an RPG setting with the name (?) and are even planning on making their own boardgame called...Heroquest, presumably.
No it is not unreasonable, but any legal disagreement they have is with Gamezone, not backers.
No backer has commited any offence by backing the Lanzanos crowdfund or pre-ordering from the Gamezone website. And it is not a crime to transport their purchase.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
So through Google Translate, I take it this e-mail I just received is asking for me to pay some other random group money to sue Gamezone?
As you know, four years ago and a half we pay money for the game HeroQuest 25th anniversary in Christmas of 2014. We are in 2018 a few months of legally prescribed obligation to Gamezone to give ourselves the game and thus keep our money without giving anything in return.
Many people have gone to court to get their money back and ... What's the surprise? buyers who have won the trial would not have recovered, because simply Gamezone and Dionisio are penniless what happened with more than 600 thousand euros?
Therefore, the association has created HQ25 affected and will certainly go to court so that the judge determined if there is crime and the legal consequences of this. The aim is that the request in this way the legal deadline restarts, and Dionisio is obliged to deliver the game.
If there were no game, we would be in a position to apply for the money, and if not, jail, plain and simple.
The method of action is under criminal law, and the only way to avoid problems is to give us the game (there will be no more excuses for delays) ..
NOTICE: We offer the opportunity to join the association to not lose your rights to the game. Registration will cost 13 €, to meet payments to the lawyer, the prosecutor and expenses of the association. After the December 1, 2018, if you have not become part of the complaint you will have certainly lost the rights to this, and GameZone has no obligation to give you anything.
NOTICE: We offer the opportunity to join the association to not lose your rights to the game. Registration will cost 13 €, to meet payments to the lawyer, the prosecutor and expenses of the association. After the December 1, 2018, if you have not become part of the complaint you will have certainly lost the rights to this, and GameZone has no obligation to give you anything.
This much is untrue at the least. After December 1st you may be cut off from registering for the class action, but regardless Gamezone still owes you your game.
Also, this is a registration fee, not entire costs. It will likely cost signatories more than this, and signatories may be committed to the further payments.
I would look at what you are signing if interested, especially carefully.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
As August 16, 2018 has passed, it has now been four and a half years since the project was successfully funded on the Spanish platform Lanzanos.
However, the wait is still unsustainable for project supporters
and rumors are still going strong.
After meeting the Gamezone team in Seville last February to take stock,
I obtained permission to present the game in France. Much of the material has been sent to me and it is therefore with the agreement of GameZone Miniatures that I can now start a series of videos to unveil you step by step the game HeroQuest 25 Th.
What's shown off looks good but there is a lot of text and those cards and I fear they've taken a simple game and over complicated it at least Is till have all th orginal printed material and dice in case I want to run the original version as well.
As to the legal action there are already question marks about it - (looking for copies of passports in an unsecured way etc.) unless your in Spain probably best to stay out of it as €13 might only be the start and you still may have nothing to show for it at the end.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/26 08:54:53
I wonder if there are any English language copies available to get 'early'.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Yes. I have done many videos in French to present all the elements of the basic game.
I have seen that they have not understood what you said in the first video.
The only things that are different from what they will have in the box are:
- the board because it needed a very resistant as I explain it for the trips in the car.
- and the cards that same thing are done to resist everything (children, aqua, haterz and fanboys, etc).
In that video I explain that there are 15 different double-sided illustrations for treasure cards.
There is no price on the cards because only the MB knows with a motion die release on its secret treasure board what it has exactly.
I'll show that table later.
What is good is the possibility for the MB to make its own table or to choose a card for an adventure and to change its value.
Say that the lost ring -for example- is worth 2000 gold.
The next videos will be:
- the team cards
- artifact
- chaos
spells
- spells - adventurers
- all the monsters in the basic box (cards and miniatures)
- the elements of scenography
Treasure Cards
Artefact cards
Equipment cards
Chaos Spells
It can't be a coincidence that new videos appear the same week as the legal action email went out.
EDIT: hmmm???
I have also been allowed to say what is missing to finish the game exactly once and for all. Therefore, this week Rafa is working on the layout of the regulation. We need to work on the two adventure books and the heroic rules. Yes, that will take several months, there is no need to hide it.
Onward to 2019
In the Italian forum heroquestforum.it HQFrance is also visible - This time he writes in English, we adapt his words to Spanish:
(...) The video that I made is not official. Unfortunately you have no news in your country which is why I come here from time to time.
I think it's terrible to be in the dark.
That is not the case in France where I keep updates on the development of the game for more than a year in a thread of my forum (I update it every time with the date and time at the end of each message).
(...)
So when I read that [my video] is a "counterattack by GameZone Miniatures" by a message from an association sent by Lánzanos ... no, it is not.
The truth is that you do not know what is happening and it has only been a terrible coincidence. In any case the facts are:
- We are finishing demonstration sets for all countries. It will still take us a few weeks. E-minis will be in charge of demos in stores in Spain.
In Germany it will be Gamezone Miniatures Germany, and myself in France.
I do not know what will happen in your country Îtalia] and the rest. I can ask the team if you wish.
My team is working hard and our goal is to offer the best quality in the demo set and in the final product, of course.
- I have a written authorization from Ludofilia from April 2018 to present the game. I have also clarified the situation with the legal services of Hasbro France.
So now I'm just waiting for a third [Gamezone] submission to complete the demo set and I'll start to organize a plan with clubs & associations that want to play the game [sic].
We need to redo some things first. I have reviewed the letters and once in my hand, I have seen 3 details to change. Nothing important but we have to correct it.
- I have also been allowed to say what is missing to finish the game exactly once and for all. Therefore, this week Rafa is working on the layout of the regulation. We need to work on the two adventure books and the heroic rules. Yes, that will take several months, there is no need to hide it. We will try to do the best, you can not imagine all the problems we have found, all the modifications that GZ has made in the rules, what we have added and what we still keep secret.
- The problem with the dice is solved. The company has sent new data to GZ.
- There are 19 new characters, all with their own name instead of the 15 planned.
- There is a new set of spells, called "Bloody tastes", a bonus set for spells. You decide before starting an adventure if your expenses will cost you points of mind or life.
I will teach more in the next videos.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 09:20:05
Several months to get the layout straight for 3 books/booklets? Am I reading that right?
Because that is a ridiculous timeframe and would mean they don't have someone working on layout but have someone do it in their spare time or with a part-time employee.
and an email from GZ addressing the current legal situation they claim it's only 1% of backers - I find that doubtful.
Spoiler:
Apparently they've got around 170 backers to sign up to the legal action there's approx 5,000 backers so about 3.5% of backers involved. There's been a handful of other cases to date so say 5% in total that still leaves 95% of backers "in". If GZ loses this action they are probably looking at €25,000 to hand back plus costs something they will probably drag out and proceed with the rest as they have done - slooooowly.
(All info is coming from a trawl of Darkstone forums)
I think most of the work on this is being done on a voluntary basis at this stage Hanskrampf. The several months bit doesn't surprise me anymore more kicking the can down the road.
The last video bought them some time and things went very quiet now when legal action looms more videos - and I don't think its coincidence despite with HQFrance says - put out some videos by yourself a few more months but get a third party to do it so you can deny all knowledge the next time there's an issue and a distraction and more time is needed.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 09:48:29
JohnHwangDD wrote: He says he got clearance from Hasbro France - any way to verify that?
Not really. If Hasbro make a move it will be at release, not earlier. Clearances are not worth anything. The corp can change its mind.
Gamezone has a measure of protection in Spain alone. French customers are protected under EU law, the goods only have to be legal* at point of origin within the EU.
*IP legal, not any other kind of legal.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Those miniatures look metal, the ones I saw and got samples of were resin.
Is there an explanation in the video?
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
They did a limited run in metal a while back that’s probably where they came from. Backers still get resin with few metal parts for stuff that was to fine for resin.
DaveC wrote: They did a limited run in metal a while back that’s probably where they came from. Backers still get resin with few metal parts for stuff that was to fine for resin.
They better change the box to HQ50 first at the rate they are moving...
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
