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 BaconCatBug wrote:
Do both and then when the Deff Dreads die you can loot it to make your Meganobz 2++

I actually think the Meganobz are a better option with Evil Sunz. If you can somehow Da Jump a Nob with Warbanner next to them, they'd be even more killy.

This is so clearly a WAAC exploit and hopefully will be FAQ to prevent this cancerous rules lawyer bs from propagating.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Do both and then when the Deff Dreads die you can loot it to make your Meganobz 2++

I actually think the Meganobz are a better option with Evil Sunz. If you can somehow Da Jump a Nob with Warbanner next to them, they'd be even more killy.

This is so clearly a WAAC exploit and hopefully will be FAQ to prevent this cancerous rules lawyer bs from propagating.

It's not my fault GW can't write rules properly. It's no more an exploit than Concealing Rangers for -2 to hit. I actually hope it gets errata'd to say "to a maximum of 3+" because I don't want 2++ Ghaz running about!

Tell me, is it "cancerous rules lawyer bs" to ask your opponent to roll to hit?

 Blackie wrote:
What's the consensus about the Tellyporta melee bomb: 9 Meganobz (kustom shoota and PKs) or 3 Deff Dreads (2 Klaws and 2 Saws)?

Megenobz:

Average of 13-14 hits with S10 AP-3 DamageD3 in combat plus 12 S4 shots no AP. 27W T4 2+ save, 9 bodies, single unit. Movement 4''.

Deff Dreads:

Average of 8 hits at S10 AP-3 Damage3 and 4 S9 AP-2 Damage2 in combat, no shooting. 24W T7 3+ save, 3 bodies but also three different units. Movement 6''.

Kultur bonuses not considered, but it's usually Evil Sunz to increase the odds to get a successful charge or Goffs to add some extra punch in combat. What do you prefer? I play lists with T5-6-8 spam mostly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rismonite wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:


I could see an Evil Sunz Brigade that starts looking like this. It has issues though like Lootas would want access to Showin Off. But if you were down with reserving Stormboyz, Jumping some boyz, and Telleporting Dreadz and a Wagon with some Tankbustas this might be fun.

Might be fun but would bad moon lootas and tank bustas be even better? Shooty stuff to shooty clans, choppy stuff to choppy klans. Stormboyz also suffer if index isn't allowed in that there's no good character for them to allow advance+charge as foot warbosses can't even keep up. And can't avoid casualties anymore like in index

I certainly agree, I was simply plotting an example with a brigade. I would definately want TB and Lootas in a Bad Moons scheme in a dual Battalion. I also could feel like I maximized the two elements I want instead of including a thirdwheel FA, Elite, or HS choice.

Just bring Mek Gunz as shooty Heavy Support option in Evil Sunz brigades. A unit of bustas in a trukk work decently even without the Bad Moon strategem if you field a list with many vehicles.

I just ran this list against salamanders and won VERY convincingly. I played a GOFF brigade. I usually run them MANz in an evil suns patrol or battalion, but this time I just rolled with goffs. Mission was big guns on the long table deployment set-up.

biker boss with killy klaw and brutal but kunnin
3x 3 warbikers,
2x weidboyz (da jump, warpath)
4x 30 choppa boyz (2 of them skarboyz)
2x 10 grots
10 bustas in a trukk
mek
9 MANZ
3x smasha guns

He ran:

Land raider with big ass flamer sponsons
dev squad with 2x las cannon 2x plasma cannon
vulkan hestan
leitenanit HQ of some sort.
2 rhinos with tac marines
20-30 primaris
7-8 agressors

I think that was all. My plan was to toss a non skarboyz unit right in his face as a distraction, and then T2 drop MANz, and jump another 30 skarboyz. Smasha gunz DID WORK on the aggressors. They are very dope. Dropped th ten MANz and charged the land raider and rhino. Rhino was already surrounded by boyz so I made the 9" charge needing the re-roll. the Goff kulture the MANz hit SO hard. I think I had 5 swinging against the land raider and 3 swinging against the rhino. I was getting 1-2 extra mega nobz worth of attacks every round of swinging. Was really funny when I killed the rhino and killed everyone inside because surrounded by boyz




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Do both and then when the Deff Dreads die you can loot it to make your Meganobz 2++

I actually think the Meganobz are a better option with Evil Sunz. If you can somehow Da Jump a Nob with Warbanner next to them, they'd be even more killy.

This is so clearly a WAAC exploit and hopefully will be FAQ to prevent this cancerous rules lawyer bs from propagating.

It's not my fault GW can't write rules properly. It's no more an exploit than Concealing Rangers for -2 to hit. I actually hope it gets errata'd to say "to a maximum of 3+" because I don't want 2++ Ghaz running about!

Tell me, is it "cancerous rules lawyer bs" to ask your opponent to roll to hit?

Just to clarify. I dont think YOU are the cancerous rules lawyer. I meant to point out that people who abuse it are. I know you were the author of the YMDC thread. and might be the originator or discoverer of the "bug" but it is CLEARLy a design flaw. I dont fault you.. but it shouldn't be used as a viable strategy.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Do both and then when the Deff Dreads die you can loot it to make your Meganobz 2++

I actually think the Meganobz are a better option with Evil Sunz. If you can somehow Da Jump a Nob with Warbanner next to them, they'd be even more killy.

This is so clearly a WAAC exploit and hopefully will be FAQ to prevent this cancerous rules lawyer bs from propagating.

Already verified in local competive tournament that won't be usable there. Phew.

It would be funny if GW allowed the 2++ MANz because they are still in stock and want the models to fly off the shelves, and then FAQ nerf them in the Spring.

I used to run an (almost) All-MegaNobz list before the Rule of 3, so I tried to re-create it again. No "Krooz Missulz" of 3 MANz in a Trukk going on Search & Destroy missions, sadly.

2000 point Goff ‘Bully Boyz’ Brigade (+12 CP)

245 HQ Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka (Warlord)
124 HQ 2x Weirdboy (Warpath, 2 CP Warphead Da Jump + Fist of Gork)
90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots
223 TROOP 30 Boyz, Power Klaw Nob (Killa Klaw) (1 CP Skarboyz)
75 TROOP 10 Boyz, Big Choppa Nob (1 CP Skarboyz, 1st turn 1 CP to Mob Up with above Skarboyz and Da Jump forward)
70 TROOP 10 Boyz, Choppa & Slugga Nob (Backfield with Weirdboyz & Grots)
576 ELITE 3x 5 MANz w/ 1 Kombi-Skorcha each
120 FAST 3x Kopta w/ Twin Big Shootas (keep in Reserve to grab objectives in later turns)
477 HEAVY 3x Bonebreaka (Loaded with MANz)

Edit: The depressing thing is just how much better this list might perform as Evil Sunz rather than Goffs with a less points intensive Warlord than Ol' Ghazzy.

10 CP to use during the game. Need to save 3 CP to bring back the mob of 30 before they get duffed down & out completely in later turns.

Any reason for the skorchas on the manz? They can't shoot outta the bone breaker. Is it just as an anti charge device? Might be better to drop the skorchas and put some double saws on a few.

When you guys say 2++ manz do you mean 1+ armor saves? I don’t see where you get 2++ which generally means invulnerable saves. And I don’t see 1+ armor saves as an issue since 1s always fail and there are plenty of -3 ap weapons in game.

 Frowbakk wrote:
It would be funny if GW allowed the 2++ MANz because they are still in stock and want the models to fly off the shelves, and then FAQ nerf them in the Spring.

I used to run an (almost) All-MegaNobz list before the Rule of 3, so I tried to re-create it again. No "Krooz Missulz" of 3 MANz in a Trukk going on Search & Destroy missions, sadly.

2000 point Goff ‘Bully Boyz’ Brigade (+12 CP)

245 HQ Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka (Warlord)
124 HQ 2x Weirdboy (Warpath, 2 CP Warphead Da Jump + Fist of Gork)
90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots
223 TROOP 30 Boyz, Power Klaw Nob (Killa Klaw) (1 CP Skarboyz)
75 TROOP 10 Boyz, Big Choppa Nob (1 CP Skarboyz, 1st turn 1 CP to Mob Up with above Skarboyz and Da Jump forward)
70 TROOP 10 Boyz, Choppa & Slugga Nob (Backfield with Weirdboyz & Grots)
576 ELITE 3x 5 MANz w/ 1 Kombi-Skorcha each
120 FAST 3x Kopta w/ Twin Big Shootas (keep in Reserve to grab objectives in later turns)
477 HEAVY 3x Bonebreaka (Loaded with MANz)

Edit: The depressing thing is just how much better this list might perform as Evil Sunz rather than Goffs with a less points intensive Warlord than Ol' Ghazzy.

10 CP to use during the game. Need to save 3 CP to bring back the mob of 30 before they get duffed down & out completely in later turns.

Nice list but you can’t give a relic to the nob in a boys unit as it lacks the character keyword.

Edit: you’re also right about evil suns, swap ghazzy for the trike boss and you’ll pull off some turn 1 charges with your bonebreakas.

gungo wrote:
When you guys say 2++ manz do you mean 1+ armor saves? I don’t see where you get 2++ which generally means invulnerable saves. And I don’t see 1+ armor saves as an issue since 1s always fail and there are plenty of -3 ap weapons in game.

If you remember, many months ago Games Workshop made the goofy decision to make "1" the lowest number that any die roll can be modified. At the time, this primarily impacted plasma, because instead of rolling like this

(plasmagun shooting unit with -1 to hit)

I roll a 1, 3, and 4.

The 3 becomes a 2, the 4 becomes a 3. But the 1 STAYS A 1, it doesn't become 0, so my model still dies having rolled a 1.

This means that a unit that makes it to a 1+ armor save fails on all unmodified rolls of 1, but is no longer affected by AP essentially, because:

I get shot by a lascannon with a 1+ armor save. I roll a 2, a 3, and a 4.

All of them get modified down to the minimum value - a 1, just like the plasma gun.

I have a 1+ armor save.

I still pass all those saves.

gungo wrote:
When you guys say 2++ manz do you mean 1+ armor saves? I don’t see where you get 2++ which generally means invulnerable saves. And I don’t see 1+ armor saves as an issue since 1s always fail and there are plenty of -3 ap weapons in game.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/766233.page For the full discussion and explanation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greggles wrote:
Any reason for the skorchas on the manz? They can't shoot outta the bone breaker. Is it just as an anti charge device? Might be better to drop the skorchas and put some double saws on a few.

All flamers are overpriced and totally useless in 8th. Never take them if you can.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So I'm building an Evil Sunz bike star for kicks and I cant decide how to go about building my warlord. Im bringing Wartrike, Warboss on bike with killa klaw, and Zhadsnark with some small bike squads and a pain boy on bike. Ive been going back and forth on this one. I wanted to give my wartrike the might is right trait to make him S8 and 6 attacks then buff him with fists of gork from weirdboy who da jumped himself. making him S10 8 attacks. However I read into the brutal but kunnin trait. I could make him reroll hits, and be d3+1 damage and still buff his strength with the weirdboy. I feel the math may work in my favor though with rerolling everything and +1 dmg more than the extra attack and S. Im not great at math so maybe someone else can provide exact numbers. To be honest im not sure it matters that much who gets the MIR trait when S12 and S9 both wound T8 on 3s, hitting on 2s. I plan on using them for hunting big nasty things. I don't want to make the Killa boss on bike the warlord because I want to spread the killyness around a bit in case they get separated. Thoughts on what trait would be best for the warlord etc?

That's one little trick Blood Axes get...I'm taking the Finkin Cap and BOTH traits.

 JimOnMars wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So I'm building an Evil Sunz bike star for kicks and I cant decide how to go about building my warlord. Im bringing Wartrike, Warboss on bike with killa klaw, and Zhadsnark with some small bike squads and a pain boy on bike. Ive been going back and forth on this one. I wanted to give my wartrike the might is right trait to make him S8 and 6 attacks then buff him with fists of gork from weirdboy who da jumped himself. making him S10 8 attacks. However I read into the brutal but kunnin trait. I could make him reroll hits, and be d3+1 damage and still buff his strength with the weirdboy. I feel the math may work in my favor though with rerolling everything and +1 dmg more than the extra attack and S. Im not great at math so maybe someone else can provide exact numbers. To be honest im not sure it matters that much who gets the MIR trait when S12 and S9 both wound T8 on 3s, hitting on 2s. I plan on using them for hunting big nasty things. I don't want to make the Killa boss on bike the warlord because I want to spread the killyness around a bit in case they get separated. Thoughts on what trait would be best for the warlord etc?

That's one little trick Blood Axes get...I'm taking the Finkin Cap and BOTH traits.

I think you missed the FAQ where if you take the Finkin Kap you're legally required to take Kunnin But Brutal But Kunnin BUT BRUTAL BUT KUNNIN BUT

*universe explodes, your warlord ascends as avatar of gorkamorka*

 BaconCatBug wrote:

gungo wrote:
When you guys say 2++ manz do you mean 1+ armor saves? I don’t see where you get 2++ which generally means invulnerable saves. And I don’t see 1+ armor saves as an issue since 1s always fail and there are plenty of -3 ap weapons in game.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/766233.page For the full discussion and explanation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greggles wrote:
Any reason for the skorchas on the manz? They can't shoot outta the bone breaker. Is it just as an anti charge device? Might be better to drop the skorchas and put some double saws on a few.

All flamers are overpriced and totally useless in 8th. Never take them if you can.

Ok read it... I don’t venture to the argument area called YMDC much as it doesn’t usually pertain to any accepted rules play that people use such as ITC...but ya i get your point and it’s busted I hope multiple people feedback that junk cause it’s broken as feck. I already sent my faq email to Gw. Regardless I can’t see ETC, ITC, or whatever standard playing that way...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So I'm building an Evil Sunz bike star for kicks and I cant decide how to go about building my warlord. Im bringing Wartrike, Warboss on bike with killa klaw, and Zhadsnark with some small bike squads and a pain boy on bike. Ive been going back and forth on this one. I wanted to give my wartrike the might is right trait to make him S8 and 6 attacks then buff him with fists of gork from weirdboy who da jumped himself. making him S10 8 attacks. However I read into the brutal but kunnin trait. I could make him reroll hits, and be d3+1 damage and still buff his strength with the weirdboy. I feel the math may work in my favor though with rerolling everything and +1 dmg more than the extra attack and S. Im not great at math so maybe someone else can provide exact numbers. To be honest im not sure it matters that much who gets the MIR trait when S12 and S9 both wound T8 on 3s, hitting on 2s. I plan on using them for hunting big nasty things. I don't want to make the Killa boss on bike the warlord because I want to spread the killyness around a bit in case they get separated. Thoughts on what trait would be best for the warlord etc?

That's one little trick Blood Axes get...I'm taking the Finkin Cap and BOTH traits.

My list uses
painboy on bike w Killa klaw
Warboss on bike w relic choppa
Trikeboss (warlord)
And zhardsnark as well
I had the same conundrum and was initially going for might is right since I expect this unit to head the the biggest target (Knights) and I figured str8 +1 atks is better (vs knights) (Snagga Klaw gives reroll wounds)
However running the numbers even vs. knights brutal but kunnin with reroll hits and +1 damage is better vs knights.
And much better vs toughness 7 and below or toughness 9 and above.
So unless you plan to se him to targets units of 2wound infantry or less he’s still better w brutal but kunnin.

And the reason I gave the painboy the Killa klaw is becuase his normal klaw sucks on him and the relic choppa is almost as good on the warboss on bike. This setup gives me 4 brutal and fast klaws...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
What's the consensus about the Tellyporta melee bomb: 9 Meganobz (kustom shoota and PKs) or 3 Deff Dreads (2 Klaws and 2 Saws)?

Megenobz:

Average of 13-14 hits with S10 AP-3 DamageD3 in combat plus 12 S4 shots no AP. 27W T4 2+ save, 9 bodies, single unit. Movement 4''.

Deff Dreads:

Average of 8 hits at S10 AP-3 Damage3 and 4 S9 AP-2 Damage2 in combat, no shooting. 24W T7 3+ save, 3 bodies but also three different units. Movement 6''.

Kultur bonuses not considered, but it's usually Evil Sunz to increase the odds to get a successful charge or Goffs to add some extra punch in combat. What do you prefer? I play lists with T5-6-8 spam mostly.

I’m interested in feedback on this as well.. I’m leaning toward 1 klaw/3saw dreads myself but I don’t think the numbers support it and I feel there is more strategems you can use to exploit Meganobz.

Played a game with smash guns and I’m wondering now how badly GW will over react and nerf it

Not just smash guns but mek guns as the whole. 6w models for cheap is another complaint I’ve been hearing.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Played a game with smash guns and I’m wondering now how badly GW will over react and nerf it

Not just smash guns but mek guns as the whole. 6w models for cheap is another complaint I’ve been hearing.

I'm sure they'll wait a few months until the mad Mek Gun sales wind down.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Played a game with smash guns and I’m wondering now how badly GW will over react and nerf it

Not just smash guns but mek guns as the whole. 6w models for cheap is another complaint I’ve been hearing.

I can't imagine a scenario where a nerf to the bubblechukka is valid (in fact the bubblechukka should just be heavy 6 with these new stats). The KMK is also not a valid source of complaints at all.

The traktor kannon could lose the auto-hit when tareting non-fliers and the smasha gun should probably bump up to traktor kannon cost. Let's hope they don't get crazy with it

Are people still looking at Freebooters as a purely shooty army? Because I presume their +1 to hit ability applies in CC. Therefore a Warboss kills a squishy enemy HQ in CC, and automatically all Ork units within his 48' bubble are getting +1 to hit in CC. Deff Dreads, Boyz and Nobz with BC hitting on 2's. MANZ with PK hitting on 3's rather than 4's.

The Freebooter warlord trait is re-roll 1's in the fight phase within 6'. I know most people think of Badrukk as the de-facto but it's something worth thinking about if they were going to make a regular Warboss a FB Warlord. +1 to hit re-rolling 1's is CC is really strong for Orks.

Has anyone seen a good mechanized list?

I had heard lots about how good bonebreakas and nobs/MANz are now.

However, I just ran my first test 1000 point mechanized deathskull list in battlescribe, and it ran out to 3 infantry units with one regular battlewagon and two Trukks in a single battalion detachment. I'm finding the transports to be expensive and somewhat prohibiting.

I'm curious if anyone has any good list builds. With bonebreakas at almost 160 points and trukks being completely useless at 65 as anything other than a gun platform, it seems questionable unless you can find something meaningful to put in bonebreakas with a budget. Drops and total unit count would be quite limited, no?

I was considering going straight grots and using nobs plus bonebreakas for the work to be done. But that stuff is expensive. Three bonebreakas full of nobs plus minimum 30 grots would run you over 900 points without enough for your 2 min HQs.

 Elfric wrote:
Are people still looking at Freebooters as a purely shooty army? Because I presume their +1 to hit ability applies in CC. Therefore a Warboss kills a squishy enemy HQ in CC, and automatically all Ork units within his 48' bubble are getting +1 to hit in CC. Deff Dreads, Boyz and Nobz with BC hitting on 2's. MANZ with PK hitting on 3's rather than 4's.

The Freebooter warlord trait is re-roll 1's in the fight phase within 6'. I know most people think of Badrukk as the de-facto but it's something worth thinking about if they were going to make a regular Warboss a FB Warlord. +1 to hit re-rolling 1's is CC is really strong for Orks.

Nah, if you're playing in a more casual meta setting, I would 100% put Freebootas forward as one of the best ork clans if you're not going to be mixing your clans and you don't want to go pure shooty or pure choppy.

The WL trait is good, the kultur is good, and we have enough solid spendy strats that are not tied to kulturs, and the best relic is generic anyhow.

Between them and Deffskulls I'd definitely say either can be applied to a whole army without giving up a lot of power out of particular units.

tneva82 wrote:

skyfi wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

skyfi wrote:
I know kombis are expensive but... I feel like if you’re teleporting a unit in a tank/trukk and have limited capacity and a few extra points... maybe I would run a couple of kombis?
Heck even if ya just had extra points and no useful or way you wanted to use the


Could teleport 2 trukk full of nobs, with some kombis, and a wagon full of grots (or grots and chars) to shield them (and provide them a 20 cap transport they can both get into if need be? 10 grots and a wagon is like 9 PL? So could easily cram a couple characters on the wagon the teleport in also.

Probably not most effective use of points but I could see a use. I was thinking having a unit of them roast something to buff rest of army with +1 to hit. Skorxhas would be only ranged weap in unit and help get buff up like mek guns. Thought anti infantry, short range and same point cost with much lower damage potential.... but the delivery system is more mobile, has utility to fight in CC (especially with a cheap power stabba)... can stick with the rest of your army opposed to be overrun like Mek guns may? (If playing freebooters and looking for something to Combo the bonus. Having some shooting on every single unit seems important for this, one Infantry model from Some chaff unit could be easily killed by a single skorcha or a Kustom shoota from a nob or manz squad?

Umm you would spend 2CP to teleport some GROTS? Remember it's not units up to 20PL but unit up to 20PL. Each unit you put into teleport is 2CP(units inside transport don't count for PL of transport). Thus 2 trukks with nobs=4 CP, wagon full of grots=2CP, total=6CP.

Orks are hard pressed for CP's as it is. Tellyporting grots is not particulary efficient usage of CP's.

I was under impression teleport 20 PL limitation included passengers as well? Which was the logic of grots. You’re more or less teleporting an extra vehicle up front with a character, added benefit is Grot screen filling up seats? Always seemed to be an issue of Killy stuff getting it’s transported destroyed, usually in my deploymEnt zone.

Well yeah but what vehicle on earth you would want to teleport that you can't fill in with anything WORTHWHILE? The grots wouldn't be doing anything but fire pew-pew S3 pistols before turn 3 anyway. Put in tank bustas, flashgits, choppa boyz hell even shoota boyz or whatever that actually does something.

Again, just trying to make use of capacity because I thought it counted toward 20 PL limit, so was trying to find a way to jump boys same turn as stuff posted in, so grots aplenty in front line? I was struggling to find a way to get everyrhingbubdee the constraints of Vehicles, especially wagons. 1 nobs is 14Pl and cant go in a wago to be ported because 8+14 is over 2 (faulty logic or whatever).. lot of wasted time thinking of combos.lol. My apologies for wasted energy in replying or confusion caused.

the_scotsman wrote:

gungo wrote:
When you guys say 2++ manz do you mean 1+ armor saves? I don’t see where you get 2++ which generally means invulnerable saves. And I don’t see 1+ armor saves as an issue since 1s always fail and there are plenty of -3 ap weapons in game.

If you remember, many months ago Games Workshop made the goofy decision to make "1" the lowest number that any die roll can be modified. At the time, this primarily impacted plasma, because instead of rolling like this

(plasmagun shooting unit with -1 to hit)

I roll a 1, 3, and 4.

The 3 becomes a 2, the 4 becomes a 3. But the 1 STAYS A 1, it doesn't become 0, so my model still dies having rolled a 1.

This means that a unit that makes it to a 1+ armor save fails on all unmodified rolls of 1, but is no longer affected by AP essentially, because:

I get shot by a lascannon with a 1+ armor save. I roll a 2, a 3, and a 4.

All of them get modified down to the minimum value - a 1, just like the plasma gun.

I have a 1+ armor save.

I still pass all those saves.

At least it isn't as bad as the 2++(invulnerable save), rerolling deathstars.

Now, you'd have to spend a CP to reroll the natural dice roll of 1....and that's for one roll.

So... I don't think its gamebreaking as high volume of shots can whittle it down.

 Elfric wrote:
Are people still looking at Freebooters as a purely shooty army? Because I presume their +1 to hit ability applies in CC. Therefore a Warboss kills a squishy enemy HQ in CC, and automatically all Ork units within his 48' bubble are getting +1 to hit in CC. Deff Dreads, Boyz and Nobz with BC hitting on 2's. MANZ with PK hitting on 3's rather than 4's.

The Freebooter warlord trait is re-roll 1's in the fight phase within 6'. I know most people think of Badrukk as the de-facto but it's something worth thinking about if they were going to make a regular Warboss a FB Warlord. +1 to hit re-rolling 1's is CC is really strong for Orks.

Thinking balanced army really plays into freebootaz hands. The +1 to hit when combined with waaagh banner brings PK’s down to 2+ to hit! 10 manz with the extra attack buff up from weirboy... 40 attacks hitting on 2’s, rerolling 1s if close enough to warlord... then 2+ to wound most things... give them all double saws and they are at what 50 attacks (gettin ridiculous point sink here I know).... but then electing them to fight again for CP with all of those bonuses up... /drool

If you can keep the buff up, freebooters get a lot of mileage out of PK’s/saws?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Are people still looking at Freebooters as a purely shooty army? Because I presume their +1 to hit ability applies in CC. Therefore a Warboss kills a squishy enemy HQ in CC, and automatically all Ork units within his 48' bubble are getting +1 to hit in CC. Deff Dreads, Boyz and Nobz with BC hitting on 2's. MANZ with PK hitting on 3's rather than 4's.

The Freebooter warlord trait is re-roll 1's in the fight phase within 6'. I know most people think of Badrukk as the de-facto but it's something worth thinking about if they were going to make a regular Warboss a FB Warlord. +1 to hit re-rolling 1's is CC is really strong for Orks.

Nah, if you're playing in a more casual meta setting, I would 100% put Freebootas forward as one of the best ork clans if you're not going to be mixing your clans and you don't want to go pure shooty or pure choppy.

The WL trait is good, the kultur is good, and we have enough solid spendy strats that are not tied to kulturs, and the best relic is generic anyhow.

Between them and Deffskulls I'd definitely say either can be applied to a whole army without giving up a lot of power out of particular units.

I agree that Deathskulls and Freebooters, in my mind, are probably the two strongest Kulturs in the game, which takes nothing away from all the rest that seem crazy good still. I am going to be playing a game soon against our best player who I have a lot of fun, cool games with who is going to be using Chaos and Abaddon for this encounter. I really wanted to take Ghaz for this but I think I want to use this Freebooter Brigade:

HQ
Warboss (Warlord) - Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota and Killa Reputation
Kaptin Badrukk and 1 Ammo Runt
Weirdboy

Troops
10 x Shootaboyz with a Boss Nob with Kustom Shoota
10 x Gretchin
4 Units of 10 slugga boyz with Boss Nobz and Big Choppa

Elites
4 x MANZ, one with Killsaws
Mek
8 x Tankbustas

Fast Attack
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta

Heavy
Battlewagon with a big shoota
Battlewagon with ard case and Supa Kannon
5 x Flashgitz
5x Flashgitz
Meka-Dread with Rippa Klaw, Killkannon and Mega Charga

1 Trukk with Big shoota

Trukk is for the tank bustas, the battlewagon is for the Flash Gitz and the Shoota Boys. MANZ get jumped by the Warphead, Meka-Dread moves 16 inches thanks to ability and maybe gets a first turn charge. Warboss and all the boyz peg it up the field and Badrukk slides up behind the Battlewagon with the Flashgitz. Sit the Supa Kannon behind everything hammering the opponent with 60' 2D6 rokkit equivalent shells. There should be enough units there that i will be getting +1 bonuses in both the CC and Shooting Phase from at least Turn 2 minimum. Do I give the Waphead Fist of Gork or Warpath in addition to Da Jump

I have a tournament coming up at the end of November and I really want to run Orks for this (I usually bring Dark Eldar).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyfi wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Are people still looking at Freebooters as a purely shooty army? Because I presume their +1 to hit ability applies in CC. Therefore a Warboss kills a squishy enemy HQ in CC, and automatically all Ork units within his 48' bubble are getting +1 to hit in CC. Deff Dreads, Boyz and Nobz with BC hitting on 2's. MANZ with PK hitting on 3's rather than 4's.

The Freebooter warlord trait is re-roll 1's in the fight phase within 6'. I know most people think of Badrukk as the de-facto but it's something worth thinking about if they were going to make a regular Warboss a FB Warlord. +1 to hit re-rolling 1's is CC is really strong for Orks.

Thinking balanced army really plays into freebootaz hands. The +1 to hit when combined with waaagh banner brings PK’s down to 2+ to hit! 10 manz with the extra attack buff up from weirboy... 40 attacks hitting on 2’s, rerolling 1s if close enough to warlord... then 2+ to wound most things... give them all double saws and they are at what 50 attacks (gettin ridiculous point sink here I know).... but then electing them to fight again for CP with all of those bonuses up... /drool

If you can keep the buff up, freebooters get a lot of mileage out of PK’s/saws?

Yeah Manz + Warboss with Killa Reptation + Banner Nob and Warpath. Ten MANZ with Killsaws is 430 points, and coupled with those buffs will make Knights dissapear. Getting to a Knight with decent screening is another matter, but it's something to consider. Even 9 Meganobz with a Warboss and Banner Nob loaded into a bare bones battlewagon with ard case tearing up the field or putting in a tellyporta is completely viable.

 Elfric wrote:


I agree that Deathskulls and Freebooters, in my mind, are probably the two strongest Kulturs in the game, which takes nothing away from all the rest that seem crazy good still. I am going to be playing a game soon against our best player who I have a lot of fun, cool games with who is going to be using Chaos and Abaddon for this encounter. I really wanted to take Ghaz for this but I think I want to use this Freebooter Brigade:

HQ
Warboss (Warlord) - Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota and Killa Reputation
Kaptin Badrukk and 1 Ammo Runt
Weirdboy

Troops
10 x Shootaboyz with a Boss Nob with Kustom Shoota
10 x Gretchin
4 Units of 10 slugga boyz with Boss Nobz and Big Choppa

Elites
4 x MANZ, one with Killsaws
Mek
8 x Tankbustas

Fast Attack
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta

Heavy
Battlewagon with a big shoota
Battlewagon with ard case and Supa Kannon
5 x Flashgitz
5x Flashgitz
Meka-Dread with Rippa Klaw, Killkannon and Mega Charga

1 Trukk with Big shoota

Trukk is for the tank bustas, the battlewagon is for the Flash Gitz and the Shoota Boys. MANZ get jumped by the Warphead, Meka-Dread moves 16 inches thanks to ability and maybe gets a first turn charge. Warboss and all the boyz peg it up the field and Badrukk slides up behind the Battlewagon with the Flashgitz. Sit the Supa Kannon behind everything hammering the opponent with 60' 2D6 rokkit equivalent shells. There should be enough units there that i will be getting +1 bonuses in both the CC and Shooting Phase from at least Turn 2 minimum. Do I give the Waphead Fist of Gork or Warpath in addition to Da Jump

I have a tournament coming up at the end of November and I really want to run Orks for this (I usually bring Dark Eldar).

I'm also really excited about running a Freeboota hybrid shooty/choppy list, but there are some tricky elements. A model in a transport can't grant the +1 to anyone - they're off the table. So if your trukking bustas or wagoning gitz score a kill, they can't share the bonus. That said, I believe the open top "modifiers shared with passengers" will make it work the other way- they can RECEIVE the bonus.

So you need some units NOT in transports who can reliably pop a small unit during the shooting phase and start the +1 madness. My list I'm workshopping is gonna use a Burna Bomma to soften things up, then I'm thinking the combined flamers from a boosta blasta and a wartrike should be enough to obliterate something. Then my +1 to hit bustas, gitz, shoota boyz, 'naut, etc. can open fire. Which, in turn, will hopefully soften things up enough to get a kill on the charge, and the whole thing gloriously repeats in the combat phase.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

Spoiler:

 Elfric wrote:


I agree that Deathskulls and Freebooters, in my mind, are probably the two strongest Kulturs in the game, which takes nothing away from all the rest that seem crazy good still. I am going to be playing a game soon against our best player who I have a lot of fun, cool games with who is going to be using Chaos and Abaddon for this encounter. I really wanted to take Ghaz for this but I think I want to use this Freebooter Brigade:

HQ
Warboss (Warlord) - Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota and Killa Reputation
Kaptin Badrukk and 1 Ammo Runt
Weirdboy

Troops
10 x Shootaboyz with a Boss Nob with Kustom Shoota
10 x Gretchin
4 Units of 10 slugga boyz with Boss Nobz and Big Choppa

Elites
4 x MANZ, one with Killsaws
Mek
8 x Tankbustas

Fast Attack
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta
Deffkopta with Kustom Mega Blasta

Heavy
Battlewagon with a big shoota
Battlewagon with ard case and Supa Kannon
5 x Flashgitz
5x Flashgitz
Meka-Dread with Rippa Klaw, Killkannon and Mega Charga

1 Trukk with Big shoota

Trukk is for the tank bustas, the battlewagon is for the Flash Gitz and the Shoota Boys. MANZ get jumped by the Warphead, Meka-Dread moves 16 inches thanks to ability and maybe gets a first turn charge. Warboss and all the boyz peg it up the field and Badrukk slides up behind the Battlewagon with the Flashgitz. Sit the Supa Kannon behind everything hammering the opponent with 60' 2D6 rokkit equivalent shells. There should be enough units there that i will be getting +1 bonuses in both the CC and Shooting Phase from at least Turn 2 minimum. Do I give the Waphead Fist of Gork or Warpath in addition to Da Jump

I have a tournament coming up at the end of November and I really want to run Orks for this (I usually bring Dark Eldar).

I'm also really excited about running a Freeboota hybrid shooty/choppy list, but there are some tricky elements. A model in a transport can't grant the +1 to anyone - they're off the table. So if your trukking bustas or wagoning gitz score a kill, they can't share the bonus. That said, I believe the open top "modifiers shared with passengers" will make it work the other way- they can RECEIVE the bonus.

So you need some units NOT in transports who can reliably pop a small unit during the shooting phase and start the +1 madness. My list I'm workshopping is gonna use a Burna Bomma to soften things up, then I'm thinking the combined flamers from a boosta blasta and a wartrike should be enough to obliterate something. Then my +1 to hit bustas, gitz, shoota boyz, 'naut, etc. can open fire. Which, in turn, will hopefully soften things up enough to get a kill on the charge, and the whole thing gloriously repeats in the combat phase.

If you're worried about kicking off the +1 chain in shooting, why not include a few Mek Gunz? While they can never get the bonus, they're still Freeboota models, they're cheap, and they can hopefully pop something at the start of the shooting phase to get things going.

First post, i've been lurking in this thread for about a week now, so hello!

I'm warming up to the idea of Freebooterz, as it turns out that tankbustas with the +1 actually inflict slightly more wounds than bustas using the Deffskullz Wreckers strat, when targeting T7 and below. Downside is they deal about 10% less vs T8, and bomb sguigs are already 2+ BS.
We also don't have to worry about whether or not we can use strats on embarked units in this case.

Given how CP hungry orks seem with the new codex, being able to boost the damage output for "free" is kind of a big deal.
So if it is indeed the case that <Freeboterz> Mek Gunz can activate the ability, which does seem to be the RaW, then throwing in a fat chunk of those in such a detachment will almost always be able to pop the bonus. I smell viability.

I being able to make CS work in the Shooting phase and the Assault phase will really help make Freebootaz work. With that said I think ten Deep Strike Tankbustas would be a great way to get CS rolling on turn two.

Also I think a Biker Freeboota army with a Deep Strike Flash git/Nob element might not be bad either


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I take it the Bubblechukka is dead now that there is no minigame to try and mitigate 1 and 2 strength rolls?

Most of the buggies turn into winners when factoring in competitive streak. Thier guns get 50% better and 33% better in CC.

the_scotsman wrote:
The negativity parade is pretty hilarious here tbh.

"Oh no, orks have multiple anti elite/anti tank shooting options that work in different situations feth you gw!"

Yeah, kaptin badrukk is not amazing for the best way to run gits - he's sure not terrible, basically if you wanted a Character KMK with the freeboota kultur and when you pop your gits out of the trukk he gives em a buff.

Tankbustas are good in freebootas in transports, or in bad moons deep striking with Cp overload.

Mek gunz are great shooting support for any clan.

Lootas are the only one I'm not convinced on, but sitting backfield with Grot shield support they could also be handy.

I think people are getting blinded by the pure math behind mek gunz and ignoring some of the power that the units that get kulturs bring. Ork shooting is perfectly fine.

for me its more the realization that literally nothing in this codex works without CP. Take away strats and I can't think of a single build worth a damn that has any hope at winning in against a semi-competitive list. Bonebreaka's are meh at best and you will have to survive 1 full turn of shooting to get into CC UNLESS you use the Tellyporta strat and have them arrive within charge range on turn 2. Tankbustas are still ok but to make them competitive you have to use the shoot twice strat or the grenade chucking strat or the dakka on 5s strat. Same thing for Deffdreadz, nobody is going to competitively bring a walker list and have them foot slog on the table, at most people will use the 3 tellyporting dreadz to get into CC turn 2....Probably the only Mech list that will be able to compete will be 6 Dreadz (700ish points) Tellyporting turn 2 into 8' charge range alongside a Bonebreaka battlewagon that uses the 3D6 strat to get even more mortal wounds.

These strats are cool but a lot of its is so dependent on CP its ridiculous and I see this as a downside to balance in the game. So many units suck right now but are considered good or even great by the use of a strat that they have to be priced according to what strats CAN be used on them as opposed to how good they are by themselves. Just my opinion but I don't see orkz doing well even with our codex once the dust settles. A simple screen can defeat most of our tactics sadly.

SemperMortis wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
The negativity parade is pretty hilarious here tbh.

"Oh no, orks have multiple anti elite/anti tank shooting options that work in different situations feth you gw!"

Yeah, kaptin badrukk is not amazing for the best way to run gits - he's sure not terrible, basically if you wanted a Character KMK with the freeboota kultur and when you pop your gits out of the trukk he gives em a buff.

Tankbustas are good in freebootas in transports, or in bad moons deep striking with Cp overload.

Mek gunz are great shooting support for any clan.

Lootas are the only one I'm not convinced on, but sitting backfield with Grot shield support they could also be handy.

I think people are getting blinded by the pure math behind mek gunz and ignoring some of the power that the units that get kulturs bring. Ork shooting is perfectly fine.

for me its more the realization that literally nothing in this codex works without CP. Take away strats and I can't think of a single build worth a damn that has any hope at winning in against a semi-competitive list. Bonebreaka's are meh at best and you will have to survive 1 full turn of shooting to get into CC UNLESS you use the Tellyporta strat and have them arrive within charge range on turn 2. Tankbustas are still ok but to make them competitive you have to use the shoot twice strat or the grenade chucking strat or the dakka on 5s strat. Same thing for Deffdreadz, nobody is going to competitively bring a walker list and have them foot slog on the table, at most people will use the 3 tellyporting dreadz to get into CC turn 2....Probably the only Mech list that will be able to compete will be 6 Dreadz (700ish points) Tellyporting turn 2 into 8' charge range alongside a Bonebreaka battlewagon that uses the 3D6 strat to get even more mortal wounds.

These strats are cool but a lot of its is so dependent on CP its ridiculous and I see this as a downside to balance in the game. So many units suck right now but are considered good or even great by the use of a strat that they have to be priced according to what strats CAN be used on them as opposed to how good they are by themselves. Just my opinion but I don't see orkz doing well even with our codex once the dust settles. A simple screen can defeat most of our tactics sadly.

So you've managed to turn "this horde faction that can generate an assload of cp has amazing Stratagems" and reframe it as a whine. Amazing. Orks have:

-the most reliable deep strike in the game with zero CP expenditure

-among the best upfront anti tank units in the game in the smasha gun/trakktor, again with no cp, almost totally immune to rule of 3 since you can have frickin 15.

-multiple amazing detachment rules, evil sunz for deep strike/rush, deffskullz for msu, freebootas for mek gun spam, bad moonz with double shot Stratagem.

Don't like Stratagems? Run evil sunz, freebootas, or deff skulls, all of them don't give a feth about cp for the most part, except for dumping things into deep strike for sunz.