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Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 10/4) PREORDERS OCT 9.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Vorian wrote:
Price of a finite thing rising when demand exceeds supply is not late stage Capitalism.
Yeah, IDK, it's like not nice business practice and they're basically treating it like a monopoly, exploiting their visibility and using it to charge stupid prices, but it's not a monopoly, it's just the biggest game in town. They're not conspiring to price fix or anything else particularly shady, they're just kinda being jerks and throwing their weight around because they're capitalist (which, for the record, sucks, but is the current economic mode).

Take your business elsewhere and take a fraction of their effectiveness and power away? Work on getting more affordable games some momentum at your club or whatever? I enjoy 40k but have managed to buy nearly entirely used and for pretty cheap, and I play other games. Yeah, there are times when I go "ooh, shiny" at new GW stuff, but if I'm not happy with the price:value ratio (which is nearly all the time), I go elsewhere. You definitely don't need to participate in their pricing scheme nor in their particular dominance over the social participation it allows, and as much as it would be nice for everyone to be able to afford whatever pass time they want, that's not the case, there are other ways to enjoy miniature gaming as a hobby without giving GW a cent, and there are bigger injustices out there than capitalism pooping on this particular desire.



They are literally only charging what they consider a market rate for what they produce. As they are obliged to do.

If they go too high they won't sell everything they can produce... we are yet to see a that so they are on the right side of competent at the moment.



   
Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

I uh was actually agreeing with you, I thought. With something like this "only charging what they consider a market rate" is absurdly subjective, and makes them sound like they're somehow scraping by, which is equally ridiculous. If you mean, they're taking as much as they can get away with and doing so because they're beholden to shareholders, yeah, they are, and I don't need to be happy with it or think it's the only way they could have operated.

And we definitely have seen them charge too much, the company floundered for any number of years, which partially contributed to their competition gaining traction.


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I was particularly talking about "monopolistic practises", they are just doing what a normal company should be doing. There's nothing monopolistic about it.

Not sure they floundered particularly, when was the last time they were not in profit?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/12 19:42:20


 
   
Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

Vorian wrote:
I was particularly talking about "monopolistic practises", they are just doing what a normal company should be doing. There's nothing monopolistic about it.

Also I think the world is flat.

Don't quote me on what I didn't write, it's dishonest. They have a corner they're squatting on and exploiting it to its fullest advantage. That efficacy isn't necessary to doing business, it's just one way of doing business that they've chosen and yeah by those standards it's what they should be doing, but that's a very big assumption. Slave labor is also an efficient way of generating capital, that doesn't mean it should be done. (No, this is not in any way suggesting GW practices amount to or are in any way analogous to slave labor. I'm arguing that a single metric of "should" is full of assumptions and reductive.)


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Is monopolistic practises different to them treating it like a monopoly? In any case, they do neither.

GW just charge what people will pay. There's nothing more to it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/12 20:00:21


 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







Capitalism and Socialism? What the hell are you guys on about?

Can anyone explain to me why the Easy to build dread was discontinued? Cause it would help mitigate the stupid price tag of this box!
And please with no ism's XD

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

Vorian wrote:
they are just doing what a normal company should be doing.


And that's good, somehow?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NAVARRO wrote:

Can anyone explain to me why the Easy to build dread was discontinued? Cause it would help mitigate the stupid price tag of this box!


Hey look, you answered your own question!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/12 20:06:36


"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 NAVARRO wrote:
Capitalism and Socialism? What the hell are you guys on about?

Can anyone explain to me why the Easy to build dread was discontinued? Cause it would help mitigate the stupid price tag of this box!
And please with no ism's XD


Well cost is one thing. It also didn't have most of the weapon options.
The ETB kits also seem to have a more limited lifespan- GW intentionally drops them from the catalog.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

 NAVARRO wrote:
Capitalism and Socialism? What the hell are you guys on about?

Can anyone explain to me why the Easy to build dread was discontinued? Cause it would help mitigate the stupid price tag of this box!
And please with no ism's XD
We're talking about exactly your question. GW can discontinue their discount kit and jack up their "stupid price tag." Some people think GW's obligated to because it makes them the most money and money is good especially when you're in the business of business; others think that kinda makes them dicks because them making more money directly affects consumers by making them pay more or pricing them out of some fun, when GW was already doing fine selling a cheaper version of the kit and making a healthy profit. There, no -ism's!


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






JFC, I really wish the price moaning would be a banned topic in news threads. If you think the product is not worth the money, don't buy it. Not hard.

   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

Can't ban it, but I do want this topic to get back on track.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Have there been any rumors about how this splash release of BTs might portend further marine releases? E.g. It wouldn't be shocking to have a similar scale release for the Dark Angels, Blood Knights, and Space Wolves that would Primaris-ize some of their iconic units, bring a few heroes to scale, and lead to a new and improved upgrade kit.

Wishlisting, you could imagine other niche/legacy chapters like Carcharodons, or productized versions of some of the new native Primaris legions like The Sons of the Phoenix or The Spears of the emperor. Feels like we're getting to the point in the cycle where a new mid-cycle Space Marine release will be in the offing, so was wondering if anyone has heard scuttlebutt?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

Vorian wrote:
Is monopolistic practises different to them treating it like a monopoly? In any case, they do neither.

GW just charge what people will pay. There's nothing more to it.


Seriously? No.

They have a business to run, which includes things like insurance, a payroll, and shareholders. Then you have advertising, internet promotion and a website to pay for. In addition they have to pay taxes on property, purchase raw materials (some of which are in extreme demand and as such the price has risen dramatically at the moment) as well as pay for global shipping and other things that allow them to do business in other countries, as well as their own.

They don't "just charge whatever."
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

 flaherty wrote:
Have there been any rumors about how this splash release of BTs might portend further marine releases? E.g. It wouldn't be shocking to have a similar scale release for the Dark Angels, Blood Knights, and Space Wolves that would Primaris-ize some of their iconic units, bring a few heroes to scale, and lead to a new and improved upgrade kit.

Wishlisting, you could imagine other niche/legacy chapters like Carcharodons, or productized versions of some of the new native Primaris legions like The Sons of the Phoenix or The Spears of the emperor. Feels like we're getting to the point in the cycle where a new mid-cycle Space Marine release will be in the offing, so was wondering if anyone has heard scuttlebutt?

I think, if it happens, it won't be for the DA, BA, or SW--but would be them revamping the smaller supplement books.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

 Kanluwen wrote:
 flaherty wrote:
Have there been any rumors about how this splash release of BTs might portend further marine releases? E.g. It wouldn't be shocking to have a similar scale release for the Dark Angels, Blood Knights, and Space Wolves that would Primaris-ize some of their iconic units, bring a few heroes to scale, and lead to a new and improved upgrade kit.

Wishlisting, you could imagine other niche/legacy chapters like Carcharodons, or productized versions of some of the new native Primaris legions like The Sons of the Phoenix or The Spears of the emperor. Feels like we're getting to the point in the cycle where a new mid-cycle Space Marine release will be in the offing, so was wondering if anyone has heard scuttlebutt?

I think, if it happens, it won't be for the DA, BA, or SW--but would be them revamping the smaller supplement books.


I wonder if some of the other primary chapters like Salamanders, White Scars or Iron Hands could get this kind of treatment? Maybe Deathwatch? Speaking of, I'm honestly surprised it has been so long since we've seen another primarch model.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

Deathwatch doesn't need anything. They've gotten too much as is, IMO.

White Scars and Iron Hands already both have unique things outside of their named Primaris guy. WS get the Khan on Bike profile while Iron Hands can turn Dreadnoughts into characters.

Raven Guard, Salamanders, and arguably the Imperial+Crimson Fists could stand to get some kind of 'signature' unit.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Deathwatch doesn't need anything. They've gotten too much as is, IMO.
Four kits and an upgrade sprue is "too much"? Their Combat Patrol doesn't even have any Deathwatch models in it!!!

 Kanluwen wrote:
White Scars and Iron Hands already both have unique things outside of their named Primaris guy. WS get the Khan on Bike profile while Iron Hands can turn Dreadnoughts into characters.
The former being an ancient resin conversion to an even more ancient First Born plastic bike kit, and the latter not actually being a model.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Raven Guard, Salamanders, and arguably the Imperial+Crimson Fists could stand to get some kind of 'signature' unit.
I don't disagree, but I think GW would rather do a Primaris Renaissance with the big three Chapters (BA, DA, and SW) before they do one of the minor ones like, say, Raven Guard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/13 04:51:29


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

The upcoming Black Templar's release is the holy grail of WH40K updates. Every single Black Templars kit is being replaced with a new updated kit. The legacy units are staying around, but Plastic Primaris updates are being made for everything.

It would be nice to see this happen for future marine releases, but I'm not holding my breath.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

You don't think they'd do a Primaris Sanguinary Guard? Primaris Ravenwing Outrider kit?

Maybe Primaris Ravenwing Outriders can just be an upgrade sprue, so we can get a proper universal Outrider kit that can be taken in unit more than 3 strong, and with actual options. Imagine that!!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/13 05:01:03


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

Imagine wanting MORE Marine relases instead of literally anything else.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






 NAVARRO wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why the Easy to build dread was discontinued? Cause it would help mitigate the stupid price tag of this box!


Note that the Templars box is the same price as the one for the Sisters, Snaggas and Lumineth starter box. The price for these has been set since their introduction two years ago and barring another price increase, the next time another one of these boxes comes around we'll have just as easy a time guessing a price as we did for the Templars box.

The variable part is what's inside the box. As such putting the ETB Dreadnought in, if it were still around, wouldn't actually decrease box price and we are better off with the full kit.

 flaherty wrote:
Have there been any rumors about how this splash release of BTs might portend further marine releases? E.g. It wouldn't be shocking to have a similar scale release for the Dark Angels, Blood Knights, and Space Wolves that would Primaris-ize some of their iconic units, bring a few heroes to scale, and lead to a new and improved upgrade kit.

Wishlisting, you could imagine other niche/legacy chapters like Carcharodons, or productized versions of some of the new native Primaris legions like The Sons of the Phoenix or The Spears of the emperor. Feels like we're getting to the point in the cycle where a new mid-cycle Space Marine release will be in the offing, so was wondering if anyone has heard scuttlebutt?


While everybody loves to think that Marines get nonstop new releases, and the second 8th ed codex and supplement bonanza certainly didn't hurt that impression, getting a second codex in the same edition is still a fairly rare thing. In my opinion Black Templars satisfy GW's requirement of a substantial release for a while, and considering all the 8th ed supplements are just as valid in 9th ed and came with a chapter specific miniature upon release, I wouldn't hold my breath for an update similar to Black Templars for the other chapters. They'll get those updates eventually, of course, but it won't be so soon that there'd be any rumors at this time.

Togusa wrote:
Speaking of, I'm honestly surprised it has been so long since we've seen another primarch model.


This may be nothing but rumor, but I seem to remember talk a while back that the designers are in no rush to get out more Primarchs, especially on Imperial side where they are said to be happy with the narrative situation of having Girlyman in charge uncontested.

I expect that if and when World Eaters and Emperor's Children get a stand alone codex they'll be accompanied by their Daemon Primarch, but considering the (very deliberate) desolate state Chaos is in at the moment who knows how and when that happens.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in es
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Imagine wanting MORE Marine relases instead of literally anything else.

Well, I mean, the people who don't play any of those don't really have a reason to want them instead of more of what they use.

Kind of a logical sentiment, all told.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/13 08:44:35


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

 Albertorius wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Imagine wanting MORE Marine relases instead of literally anything else.

Well, I mean, the people who don't play any of those don't really have a reason to want them instead of more of what they use.

Kind of a logical sentiment, all told.
You don't always have to add "right after other armies in need of updated models are done" or something similar after every wishlist of yours, either. Saying that you want to see Primaris X doesn't mean it has to happen right now or at the cost of other armies.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

You'd think Marine players would be satisfied after a 100+ relases over the course of a few years.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

I'm getting my box early later today. If you have any questions, feel free to write them here and I'll see if I can answer them.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
You'd think Marine players would be satisfied after a 100+ relases over the course of a few years.


You think the complainers would want to limit their number of complaints to below the number of marine releases. If you're sick of marines, imagine how seeing the same complaints even more than you see marines feels.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






North of Chicago, IL USA

a_typical_hero wrote:
I'm getting my box early later today. If you have any questions, feel free to write them here and I'll see if I can answer them.


Wow, really? Sweet! What do the other oaths do?

Any cool Strategems and Secondary objectives?

Interesting stories or fluff about Grimaldis and/or Helbrect’s decision to get the Primaris upgrade and/or telling the others to do the same? Any resistance?


Forgeworld Download Page <-- Here there be cool stuff! DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





 Kanluwen wrote:
Deathwatch doesn't need anything. They've gotten too much as is, IMO.

White Scars and Iron Hands already both have unique things outside of their named Primaris guy. WS get the Khan on Bike profile while Iron Hands can turn Dreadnoughts into characters.

Raven Guard, Salamanders, and arguably the Imperial+Crimson Fists could stand to get some kind of 'signature' unit.


Guessing that 10th edition will see the introduction of more jump pack Primaris units, Primaris flyers, etc. It's one of the last big gaps in the range and will be a great moment for Corvus' crew!
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

 kronk wrote:
a_typical_hero wrote:
I'm getting my box early later today. If you have any questions, feel free to write them here and I'll see if I can answer them.


Wow, really? Sweet! What do the other oaths do?

Any cool Strategems and Secondary objectives?

Interesting stories or fluff about Grimaldis and/or Helbrect’s decision to get the Primaris upgrade and/or telling the others to do the same? Any resistance?

Vows:
Suffer Not the Unclean to Live
- Melee attacks against non-Vehicle units automatically wound on unmodified hit rolls of 6.
- If you charge, you have to charge the closest non-Aircraft unit within 12" that is not already engaged.

Uphold the Honour of the Emperor
- All models have a 5+ invul save.
- Unmodified wound rolls of 1 and 2 against you always fail.
- You never receive the benefits of cover.

Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch
- If the enemy got any Psyker, you get +3" of movement in your first turn.
- Re-roll 1s to wound against psykers in melee.
- You can't perform actions, if an enemy Psyker is within 18" of you.

Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds
- You always count as having the Assault doctrine active.
- Add 1 to your attacks characteristic, which is not cumulative with Shock Assault.
- You can't fall back.

Noteworthy Stratagems:
For the Emperor's Honour!
- You select one of yours and an enemy Character in engagement range. The enemy can only target your character for that phase.

Bombastic Delivery
- One litany is automatically inspiring and you can recite one in addition (you have to roll for the second).
Note that RAW you can recite two per phase with this, even without taking a Master of Sanctity.

Champion of the Feast
- One Sergeant or Sword Brother gets +1A +1W and +1WS.

Strength of Conviction
- A unit gains Obsec for one round.

Shock and Awe
- Disembark from a Land Raider Crusader AFTER it moved. You can still charge.

Secondary Objectives:
Bathe Your Blade In The Blood Of Your Foe
- Like the Blood Angel one where you get points for killing a Character in melee with your Character.

Allow Not The Worship Of Unclean Idols
- You get points for flipping objectives that were controlled by your enemy.

Carry Out Your Vows
- 1st part is killing more units in melee than you lose during one turn.
- 2nd part is dependent on the Vow you took. For example you have to have units above Half-strenght in your enemies deployment zone.

Regarding Helbrecht and Grimaldus SPOILER WARNING:
Spoiler:

- Torchbearer fleets from the Indomitus Crusade had problems finding the Templars, due to their scattered nature.
- It was expected BT would not like Primaris stuff because they are so unpredictable and temperamentally.
- Guilliman personally met Helbrecht on the Eternal Crusader.
- Helbrecht is an instant fan girl of Guilliman, as he is a living son of the God-Emperor.
- At the same time, Helbrecht thought Guilliman is coming to lecture them and bring more boring rules to abide to with him.
- Helbrecht is fully aware of how divergent the BT are and that Big G could easily scold them for many things.
- Helbrecht easily accepted Primaris tech and attributes a spark of divinity into it that G is uncomfortable with.
- G reminds H about his duty to the wider Imperium, instead of only chasing after Ghazkull, to which H promotes several Sword Brethren to Marshalls to create new crusades, which are bolstered by the Primaris reinforcements.
- A funny remark is that some Crusades are so far ahead of where they are supposed to be, because they are SO ZEALOUS, that they can't be reached by the Primaris reinforcements.
- Word on the street is that BT have an especially high success rate in crossing the Rubicon as a reward of their faith.


I only skimmed through it, but I couldn't find any story explaining how Helbrecht and Grimaldus became Primaris. I assume they just crossed the Rubicon.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/13 18:44:06


Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Uphold the Honour of the Emperor
- All models have a 5+ invul save.
- Unmodified wound rolls of 1 and 2 against you always fail.
- You never receive the benefits of light cover

Any cover, not just light.
Its a ridiculously good vow, but you do lose out on benefiting from the -1 to hit from dense cover.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
 
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