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Well heres A list i am thinking of feilding:

H.Q. COMMAND H.Q. - 168 Heroic Senior Officer (70) w/ Power Weapon (5), Bionics (5) and Carapace Armor (5) Bolt Pistol (1), Surveyor (2) – 88 Lascannon (25), Master Vox-caster (25) Standard Bearer (11) Spec. Weapons Squad - w/ 2 Meltaguns (15x2), 1 Demo-charge (10) Light Infantry (10) – 85
TROOPS
INFANTRY PLATOON 1 – 508
Command Squad - Junior Officer (40), Vox-Caster (5), Plasma Gun (10) and Lascannon (25) – 80
Support Squad – 2 Auto cannons (20x2), Heavy Bolter (15) – 80
Infantry Squad - (60) 1A - Vox-Caster (5), Heavy Bolter (10), Flamer (6), Light Infantry (10) and Chem-Inhalers (10) – 101
Infantry Squad - (60) 1B - Vox-Caster (5), Heavy Bolter (10), Flamer (6), Light Infantry (10) and Chem-Inhalers (10) – 101
Infantry Squad - (60) 1C - Vox-Caster (5), Missile Launcher (15), Plasma Gun (10) and Chem-Inhalers (10) – 100
Remnants Squad - 5 Guardsmen – (6x5) = 30

INFANTRY PLATOON 2– 478
Command Squad- Junior Officer (40), Vox-Caster (5), Plasma Gun (10) and Lascannon (25) – 80
Infantry Squad - (60) 2A - Vox-Caster (5), Heavy Bolter (10), Flamer (6), Light Infantry (10) and Chem-Inhalers (10) – 101
Infantry Squad - (60) 2B - Vox-Caster (5), Heavy Bolter (10), Flamer (6), Light Infantry (10) and Chem-Inhalers (10) – 101
Infantry Squad - (60) 2C - Vox-Caster (5), Missile Launcher (15), Grenade Launcher (8) and Chem-Inhalers (10) – 100
Infantry Squad - (60) 2D - Vox-Caster (5), Auto cannon (15), Grenade Launcher (8) and Chem-Inhalers (10) – 100

CONSCRIPT PLATOON – 325
50 Conscripts (4x50) w/ 5 Heavy Bolters (15x5) and 5 Grenade Launchers (12x5)

CONSCRIPT PLATOON – 330
50 Conscripts (4x50) w/ 5 Auto Cannons (20x5) and 5 Grenade Launchers (12x5)

FAST ATTACK
SENTINEL SQUADRON – 61
Cadian Pattern Sentinel (35+15) w/ Armored Crew Compartment (15), Camo Netting (1)

HEAVY SUPPORT
BASILISK – 125
Basilisk (100) w/ Indirect Fire (25)


The Numbers
Points: 2000
Models Count: 202, 1 Sentinel, 1 Basilisk
Lasguns: 147
Auto Cannons: 9
Las Cannons: 3
Heavy Bolters: 11
Missile Launchers: 2
Grenade Launchers: 12
Flamers: 4
Meltaguns: 2
Plasma Guns: 4
Earthshakers: 1

C+C welcome and apreciated!

Thanks In Advance:
>>>The Hound

Ok, you got a lot of rookie mistakes here lets go down them one at a time.

1)You took vox's. For the points cost they are junk.

2)You put a heavy weapon in your command squad.... The one with the master vox... Now I can see the squad that is already a huge target.

3)You have 25 points of waste on almost every squad. Chem inhalers are junk, and light infantry should only be given to squads with a specific purpose in mind. It should not be wasted on the regular line squads.

4)You gave an armored crew compartment to your sentinals.... complete waste of points.... it is still av10

5)You took grenade launchers. Plasma in line squads, meltas and flamers in suicide squads.

6)You took 100 conscripts, who do not add fire power, meat shield, or close combat ability. What are these guys supposed to do other than provide a giant line of sight blocking wall when they do get in close combat?

MMMM this is a tasty army of slaves for my DE to mop up.  I think it would be hard for you to get them in a deployment zone in a good spot.  They will be very close together, so consolidation/sweeping advance will be combat to combat.

I agree with the earlier post, quite a few things that I would tweak.  I think you need a hellhound, Leman Russ well just some Armor heh.  Definately a shooty list, but you have no CC ability, I have seen the IG HQ take a CC punch and do quite well.  Total models is impressive, but not very practical.  

Jester is really on the money with the deployment aspect. In a recent RTT, I had two missions with 18" corner deployment zones. You have zero chance of deploying all those models.

I would take some of the aforementioned sound advice with this list

I agree with what has previously been said. I can see what you're going for (The "Oh shi..." reaction from your opponent when he realises what he's facing) but it defiantly needs some tweaking.

For starters, those conscripts of yours are going to be running at the first sign of anything. Sure, if you can keep them in your command squad leadership bubble, you might be fine, but I'd defiantly advise taking Independent Commissars / Inquisitors to join them and keep them in check. Also, drop all their heavy and special weapons. They're expensive, and with BS2, largely useless. If you must take something, take flamers, as they don't need BS to be effective.

On the subject of Command squads, you've painted yours with bug fat targets saying "kill me first". they have the most deadly weaponry, and hold a vast part of your army together. Drop the lascannons on them, and go for autocannons. Drop all the wargear aside from the standard from the HQ command squad, and hide it somewhere behind cover in the middle of your army to keep everyone from running away.

Yes, Vox casters suck. Really badly. Drop them all, and drop Chem Inhalers while you're at it. Replace with a liberal sprinkling of Iron Discipline amongst your command squads. Iron Discipline really should be a mandatory doctrine, it's just that good. I'm not a huge fan of Light Infantry, but I can see its use.

Right. Next, replace all your missile launchers with Lascannons. It may not seem worth the points for an extra point of strength, but I promise you, they are. Especially when the Terminators start showing up. Maybe take slightly less heavy bolters, and take a lot less grenade launchers. They may be easy to get hold of being on the sprues and all, but plasma guns really are worth the extra cash to get a hold of.

My Personal re-working of this list would be (in brief) :

Command Squad: Junior Officer with Honorifica, Iron Discipline and Bolter, 1 Veteran with a Standard
    2 All Heavy Bolter Fire Support Squads

2 Independent Commissars.

Infantry Platoon
    Command Squad with Iron Discipline, a bolter and an Autocannon
    3 Infantry Squads with Lascannons and Plasma Guns
    2 Infantry Squads with Heavy Bolters

Another Infantry Platoon
    Command Squad with Iron Discipline,a bolter and an Autocannon
    3 Infantry Squads with Lascannons and Plasma Guns
    2 Infantry Squads with Heavy Bolters

50 Conscripts with 2 Flamers

Another 50 Conscripts with 2 Flamers

2 Basilisks, Each with Indirect Fire

Doctrines are Independent Commissars, Iron Discipline, Close Order Drills (because you'll need to be in Base to base to fit in anyway) and allow conscripts.


Comes out at 2000 points, and 229 Fleshy Bodies and 2 Tanks.

Still too many models, you actually went with more.  I think you will still have a problem getting them all deployed.  But, yes close order drill will be awesome in this case.

*taps a few numbers into a calculator*

Well, on a standard 6' x 4' board playing cleanse, with the enemy deployed in the worst possible place to deny you the most deployment area, and with approximatly 25% of the board unusable due to terrain, you'd still have 563 square inches of space to deploy in, and becuase you're using close order drill, each model will only be using about 1 square inch each, so you'd still have plenty of room to deploy in

Of course, this deployment is quite likely to be sub optimal...

Seriously though, you could deploy with that many models, even if it would get cramped. One possible not quite sporting advantage this list could give you, is that due to the vast amount of time it takes to deploy / move / do just about anything, the game is likely to run out of time before the 3rd or 4th turn, depending on the time limit in place, which means the enemy will have less time in close combat with you (something you really want to avoid). It may not be necessarily fair, but at the same time, it's not actively delaying either.

For those Conscripts I'd just say back them up with a few PHQs with COD, preferably with your CHQ with banner within 12" of both as well. LD6 sucks, but Inquisitors/Independent Commissars are expensive and will just die in an assault, leaving the unit just as poorly off as it was before. The Master-Vox doesn't NEED the vox network - well, unless they finally got around to errataing it - but using that and Chem-Inhalers puts a lot of points on your other units as well. It makes for semi-reliable infantry, sure, but those ten points per unit do add up. May as well just use PHQs and COD - most efficient way for IG to get a LD boost. I would reccomend running those conscripts on 20x80 and 40x40 Fantasy square bases to make you rmovement phase more pleasant for your opponent.

Also, you could perhaps consider making the Conscripts abhumans - Abhumans, Conscripts, Close Order Drill, Homo Sapiens Variatus, and say Iron Discipline or Drop Troops to fill in your final doctrine would allow you to upgrade the conscripts to having Furious Charge - between that and COD, you could get up to 100 S4 I3+1+1=5 attacks from one platoon - sort of like slower-moving, Escalation-proof hormagaunts.

*quotes foil on everything else*

Actually, he won't likely have much movement, so I don't think besides shooting, how he could do time denial.  Assaults are normally rather one sided with guard.  I don't think time, aside from initial deployment will be a factor.  It is very impolite to take this way out, and would effect sportsmanship in a tourney.

Having just played a guard with a tad more armor but tons of troops with close order drills, I can try to discourage this many troops a different way.  I played my DE portal list in prep for a RTT tourney.  I was in assault turn 2, sweeping or consolidating from squad to squad as he was locked in CC most of the game, and he was having to pass a good deal of leadership test, so it could have been much worse.  I think he had 180ish troops.  At the end he had only a handful.  He was so desperate that he had a Sentinel try to lock up a squad of mandrakes, and was hoping to deviate ordnance onto squads in CC, which he did but with mixed results.  I quite love close order drills myself   Tons of tightly buncehd models are just crunchy, little blast template disentegrators and my Talos being effectively immune to attacks back.

I don't think this army has anything backing up its shooty troops and against fast assault armies, which is a great deal of them, it has a major weakness.  Armor diverts attention, and a hellhound or russ have the muscle to blast squads apart to keep them away from your shooty troops.  Armor is the backbone of the guard imo, and troops while cheap are not going to win games by sheer numbers.

It is a very strong shooty list, and with changes mentioned could be more resiliant and tougher.

JesterzDragon, do you play out of memphis? Because that game sounds really familiar, I am still upset with myself that we only tied.

Some points about guard tactics though

1)Nutralizing 145 points of mandrakes with a 45 point sentinal is always a good idea
2)My army is very tank heavy, I only have 76 infantry models, 202 guardsmen is a completely different cup of tea
3)I had to let you munch on the guard squads because it was more important for me to target the dark lances than to move my squads and leave the witches stranded. Once the dark lances were gone the game was mine.
4)3 missle launchers two autocannons, and 4 heavy bolters should reliably drop a raider.... in my case not so much.
5)If we has played turn 5 and 6, I would have had three scoring units on the objective and you would have had the talos left on the table. You remember what happened to the two wytch squads when they finally got left in the open?

All in all though it was a really good game... I had not played dark eldar before and the web portals really suprised me. Really looking foward to the next game.

I don't regularly play out of Memphis although I hope that will change, but we did play a game, and I appreciate the hard lessons, ouch.  I was nervous and very rusty, forgetting various things, but it was fun. It is nice to see a local gamer on here, I just started playing on these forums.  My thoughts on the OP's list were from the last few IG games, and I seemed to blur it together a bit, but the Mandrake move was indeed you.  I did think you were better off shooting the thing, but it was very smart to lock them up in CC.  But, you were desperate to stop the psycho Mandrakes , it points out how severely limited mandrakes are, no upgrades at all...sigh.  I was trying them out in 4th, and they need some more oomph for an Elite choice and the point cost is too high.  They have no fluff reguarding pistols, so why they have them is beyond me.  However, if you did not stop them, the Mandrakes would have done more damage on that flank, dern you!

Our game, I had 1 full squad of wyches, and one that was still above full strength, a Raider that was still alive, and the Ravager was stunned( I think).  12" assault wyches with fof could have gotten the right flank squads and taken out the Sentinel with a longer game.  Agonizers can punch through armor, and each succubi had one.  The Talos was wounded but had a chance to tear up some on the Russ(or so I hoped).  The Talos is now a Monstrous creature.   The Hellhounds(man are they cheap points wise) were finally down, and I recall you had the Russ, and something else that was rather injured.  That game was the first in 4th ed as I mentioned, and I made a good many mistakes.  My DL squads were too far back, and that table was horrible for both of us.  Also, I learned a great deal, like I could have put my lord in reserve.  I basically learned my WWP army is not effected by Escalation as much as other armies.

Overall my army had a bit of changes after that game, the Haywire grenades were dropped, the warp beast as well.  I actually find it humorous the amount of firepower the Raiders soak in, in the tourney they were Falcon-esque in survivability.  I think you had only 70ish+ troops.  I played in the RTT tourney and got a bit more gaming in, so I knocked some of the rust off as it were.

I did think you would pull it out depending on if I could get to the right flank, those wyches had 18" + fof, and the raider still was viable.  Those mandrakes are not worth the points in most games, but they did tie up that shooting over there and took down some troops.  I could have used some more time as well, but I appreciated the game and I look forward to a rematch.

Yes, it is good to see a local player on hear as well...

I agree that the table screwed up both of us. I am used to being on a 48inch accross table and that screwed me up. On 48 inches thoes mandrakes could have never hit that command squad. 12 inch foward for deployment, + 18 inches of movement, +4 inches for when they pop out and a 6 inch charge. That is 40 inches. Since I put that squad 6 inches from my board edge they should have been safe.... As it was, the squad got hit....

At end game, I had a bassie, a leman russ, a demolisher with the main gun gone, but with three heavy bolters left. A armored fist squad and their chimera, plus a autocannon fire support squad and a sentinal locked with your mandrakes on the table. I was sure that I knocked one of thoes squads of wytches down to three models, the other was still full strenght. At that point I would have played the move 12 inches a turn game with the tanks and danced around the objective to keep me safe from the wyches and talos.

Do you have any thoughts on the doubles tournament in Feb?  Guard and DE could be a good mix I'd imagine.  Armor and a good mix of assault, shootiness.

I won't likely take Mandrakes again, I put them in mainly due to them being painted up heh.  I forgot about the bassie, likely because you finally started missing.  Many people forget that blasters are the same as dark lances, just less range, I had 4 just in the wych squads.  But, I think you had a good amount of fire power left, it will be fun to play again.

Yes I have, and the problem with that is that, shooty+shooty or assaulty+Assaulty > shooty+assaulty. Both armies accross the board will ignore me the first two turns and concentrate on you, whiping you off of the table. Then once you are not a threat they will concentrate on me. Also if you make close combat that just makes big line of sight blocking piles that further hinder my efforts to support you.

Aside from your assertion that I will not get into assault quickly, I would tend to agree.  However ignoring guard firepower to concentrate on me for 2 rounds is insane.

I would field maybe 2 squads of warriors with one webway.  The rest would be wyches and maybe some other choice units.  My units are in reserve.  They would be blowing you apart, or my two squads.  Either way I come out of the webway unhurt and with this setup, I could take a wych army and not a kabal.

Skimmers only block LOS when downed, and that is the point I will concede.  But if I did not take a webway, I could certainly counter assault and just add to your shooting.

No worries, I was asking to see if you had any plans yet.