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Whats so bad about power armored Deathwing?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Should the deathwing have a choice for power armor in vets sqauds as rumoured?
Yes
No

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Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN



I just dont understand why more options are a bad thing. I ask a perfectly good question over at the B&C and I get flamed and branded heretic, maybe even banned because of it.

Lets see if more even minds can come up with a reason why this is a bad thing to have. I mean, from what we know, termies arent being replaced by them, it just gives more options. I know I can use more options other than the three I have. It doesnt mean I will use them, but the access is nice.

What say you?

   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Last Czarnian






The Northwest Territory

Just curious, but which thread is it at B&C?

Thanks,

Hordini

   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

It's a tough question. On the one hand, the deathwing has always been about terminators. On the other hand, in theory, the deathwing is really just any veteran of the Dark Angels, inducted into The Hideous Secret, so you'd think that vets from other companies could be fielded as a squad, or Deathwing sgts could become vet. sgts of other squads...

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

From a fluff standpoint, I'd say no, but Deathwing has been retconned so much that I don't even know anymore.




"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

Posted By syr8766 on 10/30/2006 7:16 PM
It's a tough question. On the one hand, the deathwing has always been about terminators. On the other hand, in theory, the deathwing is really just any veteran of the Dark Angels, inducted into The Hideous Secret, so you'd think that vets from other companies could be fielded as a squad, or Deathwing sgts could become vet. sgts of other squads...

But then they cease to be the Deathwing and become the ringers for the company softball team, don't they?

I don't want to seem anal about this, but it is kind of a rule, y'know?  Tradition and all that?

You could take a squad of Deathwatch and have them be a super special Deathwing who have cool guns and don't wear termie armour, I guess.


"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in us
Plastictrees



Amongst the Stars, In the Night

I agree with Jester, by the fluff, Deathwing should definitely not get power armor. That said, in a regular DA list, I don't see a problem with power armored vets, who would, by their very nature, be inducted into Deathwing, but would just be fighting without terminator armor. While I haven't seen the thread, I think what most people are reactiong to is the idea of a Deathwing list with power armor (as it directly contradicts the fluff), rather than a DA list that has power armored vet squads.

But we all know you're a heretic anyway.

OT Zone: A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villany
The Loyal Slave learns to Love the Lash! 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Yeah, I guess I'm in the same place as Jester and N667 on this; there should be vet squads, but those vet. squads shouldn't necessarily be deathwing.

(By the way: Veteran Ravenwing bike squads would be kinda cool. Jink Save, turbo-boosting plus tank hunter or furious charge? Yes please).

HF: which thread at B&C was it? I haven't found it. Truthfully, I haven't logged on to B&C in a while, just because the place is so...you know.

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

Posted By syr8766 on 10/30/2006 7:34 PM
HF: which thread at B&C was it? I haven't found it. Truthfully, I haven't logged on to B&C in a while, just because the place is so...you know.
Awesome?


"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Last Czarnian






The Northwest Territory

I have only one thing to add.  I like the fluff, and I understand that the Deathwing are all supposed to be Terminators.  However, it did get me thinking about something.

This idea of all Deathwing members having a suit of Terminator armor relies on perfect logistics.  Terminator armor is hella rare, so what happens when the Deathwing has more members than it has Tactical Dreadnaught Suits?  A full strength first company is about 100 marines right?  Now what if some of those Terminator suits got destroyed (which does happen).   In theory, sometimes a suit might be destroyed, but the marine could survive, or a Deathwing supply depot could be destroyed, resulting in the loss of Terminator suits.  If there are not enough suits to equip a whole company, what happens to the Deathwing? 

For example, if a company is 100 men, and they only have 50 Terminator suits, are they going to maintain a Deathwing that is only at 50% fighting strength?  In desperate times, you can't always be choosy. 

If the Deathwing is truly supposed to be a heavy shock force, the Dark Angels have to realize this.  If given the choice, 50 Terminators and 50 power armored marines is a much more effective force than 50 Terminators alone.

I think having more veterans than Terminator suits would be a logistical issue that needs to be considered.


From a game standpoint - yes, it would change the dynamics of the list.  But it was an extremely limited list anyway, so I don't really see much of an issue.

   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Too much fluff discussion! More lascannons and plasma guns! Schnell!

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Last Czarnian






The Northwest Territory

Hahaha...oh come on guys humor me at least a little.

In game terms, I hope the Deathwing don't get gypped in the assault cannon department.  Deathwing is an army that I could actually see myself playing if I ever got back into 40k, but not if I'm going to get my donkey handed to me every game.

Adding a power armored veteran option would just sweeten the pot, as far as I'm concerned.  Oh, the battle-damage conversion opportunities!

   
Made in us
Plastictrees



Amongst the Stars, In the Night

I think by terminator suits being "uber rare" is that due to whatever arcane manufacturing systems the imperium uses, they are unable to produce enough suits so whole chapters can be outfitted with them. Hence why only proven veterans are equiped with the suits. But that doesn't mean they are so rare that they would be unable to keep up production. By a similar token, power armor is also very rare, hence why only Space Marines, Adeptus Soritas and high ranking members of the Inquisition, Adeptus Mechanicus and similar get to use the suits while other branches can, at best, get carapace armor.

But, again, the existing fluff makes it very clear that Deathwing = Terminators. To allow power armored Deathwing would be like allowing power armored Ravenwing squads (though I would like bikers to be able to dismount), it just doesn't fit the very well established DA background.

OT Zone: A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villany
The Loyal Slave learns to Love the Lash! 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

If they don't make a Caliban pattern TL assault cannon option for the Deathwing, I'm gonna start throwing chairs.

I mean it.

How about this: A powerful storm has vexed the widgets in the ships teleport matrix, necessitating the need for a group (a couple squads) of regular marines to set up a homing beacon or somesuch other gizmo.

"The Way is set, Lord Apollyon. You may begin transport."

"Well done, Brother Sandalphon. We are on our way. Brothers, Goofy Time draws nigh, let us pray"

"Mmmmmmmmm, Goofy Time."

"Initiate Transport! FOR THE LION!!!!"

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in us
RogueSangre





The Canadian Gate

This is rEdiculous!!!!  How can GW screw the Dark Angels like this!!!!!!  If they make power armor Deathwing I WILL NEVER PLAY DARK ANGELS AGAIN!!!!  AND I WILL CRAP MY PANTS!!!!!

Oh wait, I don't play them.  And I already did.


Jessica Alba is to hot like Fzorgle is to GW failing at life.
- Phryxis on Slaaneshi psychic powers

Lets forge a narrative! Your aspiring champion makes a wet farting sound, much like when you let go of a filled balloon, as he/she is sent to eternal damnation in the warp for defeating Calgar.
- Forcemajeure 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Posted By Hellfury on 10/30/2006 5:52 PM


I just dont understand why more options are a bad thing. I ask a perfectly good question over at the B&C and I get flamed and branded heretic, maybe even banned because of it.

Lets see if more even minds can come up with a reason why this is a bad thing to have. I mean, from what we know, termies arent being replaced by them, it just gives more options. I know I can use more options other than the three I have. It doesnt mean I will use them, but the access is nice.

What say you?

Hellfury, everyone knows you're a heretic.  The branding just makes it official > .  At least you're our heretic.

In this circumstance I am not a fan of power armored options. Deathwing is specialized.  Giving it a powered armored option allows the list to be artificially tweaked.  frankly if you want that you can nearly do it now: Two min'd tac squads, with maxed termies in elites and HQ escorts.




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Made in us
Plastictrees



Amongst the Stars, In the Night

Not Goofy Time... nooooo, Dad, nooo!!!



And now we know why they wear robes...

OT Zone: A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villany
The Loyal Slave learns to Love the Lash! 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard




The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called

i dont get the goofy time joke anybody care to explain?

Let the remainder of the deathwing (the 50 that dont have termie armour) wear white paper suits. with a 6+ armour save then you can have long discusions about majority armour saves

R.I.P Amy Winehouse


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




the spire of angels

here is athought to ponder, asmodai, ezekeal and the rest of the characters in the 3rd ed dex are all said to be members of the deathwing, but are all in standard power armour with special weapons and cannot take any upgrades.,  that may change in the new dex, but for now there it is.

"victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none" 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Posted By mughi3 on 10/31/2006 7:17 PM
here is athought to ponder, asmodai, ezekeal and the rest of the characters in the 3rd ed dex are all said to be members of the deathwing, but are all in standard power armour with special weapons and cannot take any upgrades.,  that may change in the new dex, but for now there it is.
Because they are members of the inner circle, who are all (by definition) members of the deathwing. I remember WAAAAY back in the early WD 200s someone painting up the commanders of the DA in Deathwing armor. It'd actually be cool to be able to field them in Termie armor, but that's just me.   

EDIT: that was WD 200s; fixed now.   

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
 
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