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Easy as making a pie! UK after all holds all the cards! And making new deals is child's play. What could possibly go wrong!

*waves hands expansively*

Well, there’s all that for starters?

*waves arms expansively for effect*

I've said before that my great fear is that Brexit will be so badly handled, chaos will ensue, and the Remain side will seize the wheel and have us back in the EU quicker than an MP reaching for an expense claims form.

I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

A gradual de-coupling, 10 years say, via EEA/EFTA. etc etc

But after reading about Chris Grayling and his meeting with the UK haulage industry chiefs, I'm lost for words. It's so bizarre, so utterly bizarre, that it has to be deliberate, right?

Nobody could be this incompetent right?

Grayling was under the impression that in the event of no deal with the EU, you could fill up any old HGV with anything: nuclear material, guns, illegal immigrants, fluffy toys, whatever,

and the EU would have absolutely no interest in what was in that HGV, and the HGV could drive merrily on its way across Europe...

And on the subject of MPs, I've been reading a lot of insider books about our MPs, and this goes for Remain and Leave supporters.

The vast majority of our MPs are: Incompetent, lack basic IT skills, spend most of their time in HoC bars, can't handle more than an A4 page of detail, are beholden to lobby groups and/or think tanks, and got elected in a safe seat because their face fitted, rather than because of any great ability or expertise...

And the old school tie that links MPs, newspaper jobs, think tanks, and lobbyists, is something to behold. There is a lot of truth in the Westminster bubble claim and it's revolving door.

Regardless of Brexit, I'm sorely tempted never to vote again for any of this shower.

On slightly different news. Today some MPs stated that we should think about allowing vaping in public spaces and offices.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45212444

Now I appreciate that some Wrexiters would like to go back to the 70's where people spluttered over what others were smoking, but really?

Of course this tow days after there was a science report saying that vaping can still damage the immunue cells in lungs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45170756

So hands up those wanting to go back to the good old days of second hand smoke. Stupidly they also want a return of snus as well (which is, fortunately currently banned by the EU).

As a tool to reduce smoking, fine. Forcing it down the gullets of those that don't want it. No thanks.

And I would not be shocked if several of those MP's have had expensive lunches with people connected to the vaping industry.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

Yup.

And is yet to explain why he wanted out so badly. Anything he’s argued has been debunked already.

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

It’s the start of the excuses and avoiding ownership. I feel sorry for anyone who voted leave and now changed their mind. Anyone who still backs it needs to take responsibility for the consequences, whatever they may be. There are two or three options on the table. Whatever we can agree with the EU, no matter how good or bad, no deal or revoke A50. Any other option does not exist, and any slow withdrawal was off the table very early when leave attacked anyone who suggested anything other than 2 years. Leave supporters cannot hide behind “I would do something else” or “it was all the MPs fault” or “it’s be EU”. Own the outsome and accept responsibility or accept we are better in the EU that the deal we are being given.

It makes me angry that Leave are still trying to blame others and still dismissing any disagreement by claiming it is “project fear” or banging on about treason.

More on the Westminster crash
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/westminster-crash-terrorism-salih-khater-isis-sudan-police-extremist-latest-a8496716.html
Of course something may turn up that makes this a terrorist attack. But its looking more like that this case is an example of why you shouldn't use the Family Guy terrorism chart.

 Steve steveson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

It’s the start of the excuses and avoiding ownership. I feel sorry for anyone who voted leave and now changed their mind. Anyone who still backs it needs to take responsibility for the consequences, whatever they may be. There are two or three options on the table. Whatever we can agree with the EU, no matter how good or bad, no deal or revoke A50. Any other option does not exist, and any slow withdrawal was off the table very early when leave attacked anyone who suggested anything other than 2 years. Leave supporters cannot hide behind “I would do something else” or “it was all the MPs fault” or “it’s be EU”. Own the outsome and accept responsibility or accept we are better in the EU that the deal we are being given.

It makes me angry that Leave are still trying to blame others and still dismissing any disagreement by claiming it is “project fear” or banging on about treason.

It’s interesting that, although not the literal definition, common usage of “treason” is “acting against the country’s best interests”. I think it’s pretty clear which side is not acting in the country’s best interests.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup.

And is yet to explain why he wanted out so badly. Anything he’s argued has been debunked already.

*cough*...Scottish...*cough*….independence...*cough*

In other news even an ex head of the Met Police is warning of growing extreme right getting into politics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-45229850/ex-met-terror-chief-extreme-right-infiltrating-politics

I wonder how long until some start stating it is just scaremongering

GoatboyBeta wrote:
More on the Westminster crash
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/westminster-crash-terrorism-salih-khater-isis-sudan-police-extremist-latest-a8496716.html
Of course something may turn up that makes this a terrorist attack. But its looking more like that this case is an example of why you shouldn't use the Family Guy terrorism chart.

So he drove down from birmingham and then drove around central london for eight hours? Might just be that he fell asleep at the wheel.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
More on the Westminster crash
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/westminster-crash-terrorism-salih-khater-isis-sudan-police-extremist-latest-a8496716.html
Of course something may turn up that makes this a terrorist attack. But its looking more like that this case is an example of why you shouldn't use the Family Guy terrorism chart.

So he drove down from birmingham and then drove around central london for eight hours? Might just be that he fell asleep at the wheel.

The other thing that points not to being attack motivated on a religious basis is that no 'group' has claimed the attack. Usually such nutcase groups make bold and ridiculous claims yet this has been completely silent from what I've read/seen.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup.

And is yet to explain why he wanted out so badly. Anything he’s argued has been debunked already.

Still waiting for Remainers like you to explain what meaningful reform in the EU looked like, what you wanted reformed, how long it would take, and how much it would cost.

I suspect I will be waiting for 100 years before I get an answer.

As an example, CAP accounts for 40% of the EU budget, employs 8% of the EU workforce, and accounts for 4.4% of the EU's GDP. In Britain, millionaire land owners get funded by CAP, Yeah, go figure.

It's a bloated mess, that's long overdue for reform.

Tony Blair, a man who probably loves the EU more than his own children, tried and failed...

But hey, the EU is nirvana, right.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jadenim wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

It’s the start of the excuses and avoiding ownership. I feel sorry for anyone who voted leave and now changed their mind. Anyone who still backs it needs to take responsibility for the consequences, whatever they may be. There are two or three options on the table. Whatever we can agree with the EU, no matter how good or bad, no deal or revoke A50. Any other option does not exist, and any slow withdrawal was off the table very early when leave attacked anyone who suggested anything other than 2 years. Leave supporters cannot hide behind “I would do something else” or “it was all the MPs fault” or “it’s be EU”. Own the outsome and accept responsibility or accept we are better in the EU that the deal we are being given.

It makes me angry that Leave are still trying to blame others and still dismissing any disagreement by claiming it is “project fear” or banging on about treason.

It’s interesting that, although not the literal definition, common usage of “treason” is “acting against the country’s best interests”. I think it’s pretty clear which side is not acting in the country’s best interests.

I was defending Remain voters on here the other day when that Tory fethwit wanted EU supporters to be done for treason for supporting the EU.

I believe in free speech for everybody, not just for people I like. It's a shame the other side didn't think like that...

I sometimes wonder why I bother...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

As long as we're away from Finland, I'm happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

I was expecting Police to catch criminals, firefighters to put out fires, nurses and doctors to heal sick people, and MPs to act like politicians and deal with politics. You get the picture?

Not to much to ask for is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steve steveson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

It’s the start of the excuses and avoiding ownership. I feel sorry for anyone who voted leave and now changed their mind. Anyone who still backs it needs to take responsibility for the consequences, whatever they may be. There are two or three options on the table. Whatever we can agree with the EU, no matter how good or bad, no deal or revoke A50. Any other option does not exist, and any slow withdrawal was off the table very early when leave attacked anyone who suggested anything other than 2 years. Leave supporters cannot hide behind “I would do something else” or “it was all the MPs fault” or “it’s be EU”. Own the outsome and accept responsibility or accept we are better in the EU that the deal we are being given.

It makes me angry that Leave are still trying to blame others and still dismissing any disagreement by claiming it is “project fear” or banging on about treason.

Who avoiding responsibility? Not me.

And who's accusing Remainers. of treason? Not me. Hell, I was defending you guys on twitter and every other forum I'm engaged with.

I believe in free speech for everybody, not just the people I like.

Have you not read my posts? I still back Brexit, have moved to an EEA/EFTA option and have written to my MP supporting this option.

That's the opposite of avoiding responsibility.

If I could click my fingers and have us swing into EEA/EFT mode, I would do it, right now. But you're mistaking me for T.May and 650 MPs.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Still waiting for Remainers like you to explain what meaningful reform in the EU looked like, what you wanted reformed, how long it would take, and how much it would cost.

still waiting for quitters like you to show the meaningful advantages to leaving that will replace and better what we had with the eu that ar not just delusional fantasies with no grounding in reality.

And Can you tell me of the meaningful reform we are now somehow guaranteed in the U.K. outside of the eu?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

But hey, the EU is nirvana, right.

No, and no one here has ever said that. And Regardless of what it is, it's still better than bloody brexit.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

and MPs to act like politicians and deal with politics. You get the picture?

It's almost like brexit is an incredibly complicated mess, creates god knows how many other problems as a consequence, along with a massively negative fallout and you are still deliberately ignorant of it, and still unwilling to actually see that, and just want to thump your chest harder singing 'britannia rules the waves' even louder. 'Just' deal with it? Jesus Christ man, open your bloody eyes. I know you love headlines and hate those pesky details, but you don't 'just' deal with a mess this bloody big.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Not to much to ask for is it?

It's almost like you are ignoring those details again.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Who avoiding responsibility? Not me.

Oh give up. A few pages ago you were denying all responsibility, and trying to put the blame for this mess at the feet of the 'remain' campaign because they didn't win. Previous to that you were trying to wash your hands of any potential fallout from this in Northern Ireland, because according to you, it's not your problem or your concern.

You got what you wanted. And now you're trying to sneak out the back door. No sir, you do not get to do that. You won. This is 'winning', and all the problems, all the consequences and all the ruined lives - it's all yours and every one else's who voted 'leave'. Get over it

Typical DINLT. Avoiding responsibility for what he chose. He gets what he wants. Ruined UK. And still avoids taking responsibility for it.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
[. In Britain, millionaire land owners get funded by CAP, Yeah, go figure.

mainly because such payments are sorted out by the UK govt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Payments_Agency

But -- of course -- this has also been explained before -- including to this very poster.



and of course the CAP has been and continues to be reformed :
https://web.archive.org/web/20100823103612/http://www.iatp.org/iatp/publications.cfm?refid=100145

https://web.archive.org/web/20080930170526/http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article3143253.ece

It's a bloated mess, that's long overdue for reform.

blocked by the UK every time.

But hey, the EU is nirvana, right.

citation needed for this claim.

I believe in free speech for everybody, not just the people I like.

I assure you the constant stream of fantasies , misrepresentations etc etc have indeed been noticed by most posters here.

Have you not read my posts?

yes -- you'll note they're the ones we keep debunking.


If one is serious about reforming the Eu might it be suggested that :

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/consultation-future-europe_en

might be a good place to start.

in other info :

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1030749554197647361

thread about trade deals and the difficultly thereof.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup.

And is yet to explain why he wanted out so badly. Anything he’s argued has been debunked already.

Still waiting for Remainers like you to explain what meaningful reform in the EU looked like, what you wanted reformed, how long it would take, and how much it would cost.

I suspect I will be waiting for 100 years before I get an answer.

As an example, CAP accounts for 40% of the EU budget, employs 8% of the EU workforce, and accounts for 4.4% of the EU's GDP. In Britain, millionaire land owners get funded by CAP, Yeah, go figure.

It's a bloated mess, that's long overdue for reform.

Tony Blair, a man who probably loves the EU more than his own children, tried and failed...

But hey, the EU is nirvana, right.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jadenim wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

It’s the start of the excuses and avoiding ownership. I feel sorry for anyone who voted leave and now changed their mind. Anyone who still backs it needs to take responsibility for the consequences, whatever they may be. There are two or three options on the table. Whatever we can agree with the EU, no matter how good or bad, no deal or revoke A50. Any other option does not exist, and any slow withdrawal was off the table very early when leave attacked anyone who suggested anything other than 2 years. Leave supporters cannot hide behind “I would do something else” or “it was all the MPs fault” or “it’s be EU”. Own the outsome and accept responsibility or accept we are better in the EU that the deal we are being given.

It makes me angry that Leave are still trying to blame others and still dismissing any disagreement by claiming it is “project fear” or banging on about treason.

It’s interesting that, although not the literal definition, common usage of “treason” is “acting against the country’s best interests”. I think it’s pretty clear which side is not acting in the country’s best interests.

I was defending Remain voters on here the other day when that Tory fethwit wanted EU supporters to be done for treason for supporting the EU.

I believe in free speech for everybody, not just for people I like. It's a shame the other side didn't think like that...

I sometimes wonder why I bother...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

As long as we're away from Finland, I'm happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

I was expecting Police to catch criminals, firefighters to put out fires, nurses and doctors to heal sick people, and MPs to act like politicians and deal with politics. You get the picture?

Not to much to ask for is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steve steveson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I still back Brexit, no regrets there, but I want it done properly.

I still don't understand what you were expecting to happen?
Of if you have any line where Brexit isn't worth it?

You are asking guy who has noted he would be willing UK to go back to rocks and stones if it means UK goes out of EU. He doesn't care if it's good or bad for UK. He wants Brexit and he wanted it happen day after vote.

It’s the start of the excuses and avoiding ownership. I feel sorry for anyone who voted leave and now changed their mind. Anyone who still backs it needs to take responsibility for the consequences, whatever they may be. There are two or three options on the table. Whatever we can agree with the EU, no matter how good or bad, no deal or revoke A50. Any other option does not exist, and any slow withdrawal was off the table very early when leave attacked anyone who suggested anything other than 2 years. Leave supporters cannot hide behind “I would do something else” or “it was all the MPs fault” or “it’s be EU”. Own the outsome and accept responsibility or accept we are better in the EU that the deal we are being given.

It makes me angry that Leave are still trying to blame others and still dismissing any disagreement by claiming it is “project fear” or banging on about treason.

Who avoiding responsibility? Not me.

And who's accusing Remainers. of treason? Not me. Hell, I was defending you guys on twitter and every other forum I'm engaged with.

I believe in free speech for everybody, not just the people I like.

Have you not read my posts? I still back Brexit, have moved to an EEA/EFTA option and have written to my MP supporting this option.

That's the opposite of avoiding responsibility.

If I could click my fingers and have us swing into EEA/EFT mode, I would do it, right now. But you're mistaking me for T.May and 650 MPs.

So if it looks like we are going to crash out of the EU you will be willing to call for another vote on remaining in, or accept responsibility for the consequences if the likely predictions come true? Or will you want to push on with leaving the EU whatever and then point fingers at the government and the EU?

I have read plenty of your posts, and I have also seen you time and again try to shift blaim and refuse to answer direct questions.

He has made it clear plenty times he doesn't want new votes. Nothing must get in way of wrexit. It must happen no matter what the end result is.

tneva82 wrote:
He has made it clear plenty times he doesn't want new votes. Nothing must get in way of wrexit. It must happen no matter what the end result is.

New vote? We still haven't implemented the result of 2016!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadnight wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Still waiting for Remainers like you to explain what meaningful reform in the EU looked like, what you wanted reformed, how long it would take, and how much it would cost.

still waiting for quitters like you to show the meaningful advantages to leaving that will replace and better what we had with the eu that ar not just delusional fantasies with no grounding in reality.

And Can you tell me of the meaningful reform we are now somehow guaranteed in the U.K. outside of the eu?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

But hey, the EU is nirvana, right.

No, and no one here has ever said that. And Regardless of what it is, it's still better than bloody brexit.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

and MPs to act like politicians and deal with politics. You get the picture?

It's almost like brexit is an incredibly complicated mess, creates god knows how many other problems as a consequence, along with a massively negative fallout and you are still deliberately ignorant of it, and still unwilling to actually see that, and just want to thump your chest harder singing 'britannia rules the waves' even louder. 'Just' deal with it? Jesus Christ man, open your bloody eyes. I know you love headlines and hate those pesky details, but you don't 'just' deal with a mess this bloody big.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Not to much to ask for is it?

It's almost like you are ignoring those details again.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Who avoiding responsibility? Not me.

Oh give up. A few pages ago you were denying all responsibility, and trying to put the blame for this mess at the feet of the 'remain' campaign because they didn't win. Previous to that you were trying to wash your hands of any potential fallout from this in Northern Ireland, because according to you, it's not your problem or your concern.

You got what you wanted. And now you're trying to sneak out the back door. No sir, you do not get to do that. You won. This is 'winning', and all the problems, all the consequences and all the ruined lives - it's all yours and every one else's who voted 'leave'. Get over it

The most important meaningful advantage to the UK is the ability of the British people to ultimately decide on the make up of the institutions and politicians that govern them.

Naturally, of course, I have banged that drum for a long time on dakka, but a lot of people seem to think that things like sovereignty, democracy, etc etc are vastly overrated.

Certain people also seem to be under the impression that things like legalising same sex relationships (1967) votes for women and working men (1918-25) trade unions (1890s -1920s) could not have been possible without the EEC/EU, despite us not joining until the 1970s...

Feth me, how did Britian ever survive without Europeans showing us the way? Hell, how does the rest of the non-EU world survive?

Look at poor New Zealand, only 4 million people, stuck thousands of miles away from Europe...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
He has made it clear plenty times he doesn't want new votes. Nothing must get in way of wrexit. It must happen no matter what the end result is.

New vote? We still haven't implemented the result of 2016!

A result tainted in so many ways it makes a lot of sense to run it again.

Those in charge of delivering Brexit can't. Those in charge of selling Brexit to the voters lied and broke the law whilst doing so. But most importantly: no one fething knows what "brexit" means, even two years down the line

You and everyone that voted the same option as yourself voted for a giant question mark draped in fancy buzzwords with little substance. The curtain is being slowly lifted and no one likes what's behind.

 reds8n wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
[. In Britain, millionaire land owners get funded by CAP, Yeah, go figure.

mainly because such payments are sorted out by the UK govt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Payments_Agency

But -- of course -- this has also been explained before -- including to this very poster.



and of course the CAP has been and continues to be reformed :
https://web.archive.org/web/20100823103612/http://www.iatp.org/iatp/publications.cfm?refid=100145

https://web.archive.org/web/20080930170526/http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article3143253.ece

It's a bloated mess, that's long overdue for reform.

blocked by the UK every time.

But hey, the EU is nirvana, right.

citation needed for this claim.

I believe in free speech for everybody, not just the people I like.

I assure you the constant stream of fantasies , misrepresentations etc etc have indeed been noticed by most posters here.

Have you not read my posts?

yes -- you'll note they're the ones we keep debunking.


If one is serious about reforming the Eu might it be suggested that :

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/consultation-future-europe_en

might be a good place to start.

in other info :

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1030749554197647361

thread about trade deals and the difficultly thereof.

Yeah, blocked by the UK every time...apart from the time Blair wanted it reformed...

I read your link on EU reform. And I'm sure they promise to read every entry submitted by the public.

This is naivety on a grand scale. And you accuse me of fantasy politics!

The general public getting a say on the EU????

I ought to send you the medical bill for my broken ribs.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Look at poor New Zealand, only 4 million people, stuck thousands of miles away from Europe...

New Zealand gets almost 70% of their electricity by hydro and geothermal generation alone.

These are NZ exports:



Milk, meat, wool, wood, fruit, wine, aluminium, gold, etc.

Do you know how much surface (and mineral riches) it would take for the UK to provide for their 60 million? Some quick math, New Zealand has 60 million sheep for those 4 million people. Where is the UK going to put 900 million sheep?

jouso wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
He has made it clear plenty times he doesn't want new votes. Nothing must get in way of wrexit. It must happen no matter what the end result is.

New vote? We still haven't implemented the result of 2016!

A result tainted in so many ways it makes a lot of sense to run it again.

Those in charge of delivering Brexit can't. Those in charge of selling Brexit to the voters lied and broke the law whilst doing so. But most importantly: no one fething knows what "brexit" means, even two years down the line

You and everyone that voted the same option as yourself voted for a giant question mark draped in fancy buzzwords with little substance. The curtain is being slowly lifted and no one likes what's behind.

And people like yourself were trying to convince us that we could stay in the EU and reform it. With reform never defined, never costed, or never timetabled.


As though Britain could unilaterally tell the other 27 nations that this is what we're going to do and you'd better accept it.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And people like yourself were trying to convince us that we could stay in the EU and reform it. With reform never defined, never costed, or never timetabled.

Before we can propose costings and timetables, we need to actually know what it is that the leavers want reformed and why, what they'd like it to be reformed to.

As though Britain could unilaterally tell the other 27 nations that this is what we're going to do and you'd better accept it.

You just described what the Leave campaign sold Leave as.

jouso wrote:
Do you know how much surface (and mineral riches) it would take for the UK to provide for their 60 million? Some quick math, New Zealand has 60 million sheep for those 4 million people. Where is the UK going to put 900 million sheep?

Maybe he plans to get rid of like 90% of population. Plenty of space then Plus less mouths to feed as well.

jouso wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Look at poor New Zealand, only 4 million people, stuck thousands of miles away from Europe...

New Zealand gets almost 70% of their electricity by hydro and geothermal generation alone.

These are NZ exports:



Milk, meat, wool, wood, fruit, wine, aluminium, gold, etc.

Do you know how much surface (and mineral riches) it would take for the UK to provide for their 60 million? Some quick math, New Zealand has 60 million sheep for those 4 million people. Where is the UK going to put 900 million sheep?

Misses the point I was making by a light year. Sheep. Klingon Birds of prey or giant jelly beans. It matters not what New Zealand sell, make,grow, or buy. They are not in Europe, not in the EU, but are thriving and surviving.

And here's Britain, 65 million people, 5th/6th biggest economy in the world, a global giant of science, technology, culture, economics, history, for the last 300 years etc etc


= wouldn't be able to last 5 minutes outside the EU...


Yeah...





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And people like yourself were trying to convince us that we could stay in the EU and reform it. With reform never defined, never costed, or never timetabled.

Before we can propose costings and timetables, we need to actually know what it is that the leavers want reformed and why, what they'd like it to be reformed to.

As though Britain could unilaterally tell the other 27 nations that this is what we're going to do and you'd better accept it.

You just described what the Leave campaign sold Leave as.

But I never wanted the EU reformed. I wanted out. What do I care what the EU does? I'm leaving it.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And people like yourself were trying to convince us that we could stay in the EU and reform it. With reform never defined, never costed, or never timetabled.

Before we can propose costings and timetables, we need to actually know what it is that the leavers want reformed and why, what they'd like it to be reformed to.

As though Britain could unilaterally tell the other 27 nations that this is what we're going to do and you'd better accept it.

You just described what the Leave campaign sold Leave as.

But I never wanted the EU reformed. I wanted out. What do I care what the EU does? I'm leaving it.

Then stop moaning about how remain apparently never laid out a plan for EU reform despite leave never specifying what the issues it wanted reformed were or what the end state of those reforms was meant to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And here's Britain, 65 million people, 5th/6th biggest economy in the world, a global giant of science, technology, culture, economics, history, for the last 300 years etc etc


= wouldn't be able to last 5 minutes outside the EU...


Yeah...

You realise all of our professional bodies involved with science, technology, culture, economics etc. say that leaving the EU will be very bad? You feel like pointing us to your research that goes against what the actual experts involved in those fields have determined to be the outcome of leaving the EU?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Misses the point I was making by a light year. Sheep. Klingon Birds of prey or giant jelly beans. It matters not what New Zealand sell, make,grow, or buy. They are not in Europe, not in the EU, but are thriving and surviving.

As usual the point you are trying to make falls apart at the first examination of the actual facts and so you attempt to bluster out of it with your usual calls to the UK's past rather than actually address how the UK will move forward.

DINLT: New Zealand is not in the EU or Europe.

Dakka: They have lots of sheep.

DINLT: Agreed, but what's that got to do with New Zealand not being in Europe?

Dakka: they export butter. Look at pie chart X Y Z.

DINLT: I know, I buy the bloody stuff, but it still doesn't change the fact that New Zealand is not in Europe or the EU...

Dakka: As always, your point falls apart when faced with the facts...

ad infinitum, ad nauseum...