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Well, look at the source. This is the same guy that said some armies were intentionally designed to be bad in 8th because he didn't like them in 7th.
You spout crap like that around without even a source.
This has been going on all 8th edition goddammit, I want a source. Or better yet, stop bashing Reece and FLG in general.
The sources are many and verified. Go examine all the post 8th edition threads. At this point, it's thoroughly covered.
The guy inserts his own bias into his playtesting feedback, and he does so proudly and blatantly.
He's bad for the game.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
OK so now that we know who to blame for making GKs a challenge what are we going to do about it? Considering that anyone who actually wants to play a real GK army should be considered a masochist how do we inflict pain on others? Or, do we just tuck our tails in and wait for 9th?
Let's put out some thought s and build something interesting. There can't be anything too out there considering we aren't even allowed to be out there.
I've been thinking of basing an army around Draigo and his aura. My thought is either put him and most of the fire power in the center of a line and then just try to punch a whole in the opponent's line or place him on a flank and roll with him.
I'm thinking:
Draigo
Voldus
Brother Captain with first to the fray
3 Strikes
1 Interceptor
1 Stormraven
1 Stormtalon
The Raven, Talon, interceptors, Voldus and 1 Strike squad start on the board everything else DS in. Using the double the aura card on Draigo I can pretty much choose where to focus firepower and with DS and the speed of the other units I should be able to pick my targets.
Is this a perfect strategy? Hardly but it's what I'm going to use as my base of play.
We can legitimately do Apothecary spam with Storm Shield index Librarians, and just play like GK are Movie Marines. Add Draigo and Voldus, some GMDKs, even some GKT to sit objectives. Don’t play their game, play our game!
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
jeffersonian000 wrote: We can legitimately do Apothecary spam with Storm Shield index Librarians, and just play like GK are Movie Marines. Add Draigo and Voldus, some GMDKs, even some GKT to sit objectives. Don’t play their game, play our game!
SJ
I actually did something similar in a game a few weeks back.
1 Vanguard Detachement with 3 Apothecaries with Hammers (1 Relic Hammer)+GMDK
2 Vanguard Detachements with 1 Inquisitor Psyker + 3 Acolytes each(thanks for the CP and unit 8 units on the field)
1 Batallion with Voldus, GMNDK, 3 Strikes, 2 Rhinos(one for the Inquisitors and one for two strike squads to gate) and a Lazorback.
I had a lot of fun with the list. The major drawback is that the meatshields take some time to be in place. I thought about replacing the strikes with interceptors for maximum Alphastrike.
I really love the apothecaries. Sure, no Stormbolters, but I play in a Marine-heavy environment, so petty smite does more than one Stormbolter anyway. And they're basically mini Grandmasters. While your enemy can't waste firepower to shoot them.
I always ran into space problems when I spammed deepstrike paladins. Only having 6 Models deepstriking was way more relaxing, especially for smite targeting and everyone except Voldus made it into cc.
Foxen wrote: What about librarians using index option for storm shield and Warding Stave giving them constant 2++. For 172pts.
A few of those and maybe an Apothecary to give some wounds back if they take damage?
Still legal, since it’s got a different name from any unit in the codex as well as a different stat line. They have full Smite, access to Librarius powers, access to Storm Shields, yet also start off with a Nemesis Force Staff, Grey Knights keyword, and all 3 grenades. They are still a good option for a 3++/2+++ character.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
When the army that is supposed to counter daemons - is countered by daemons. What is the point? Why do grey-knights actually exist?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: When the army that is supposed to counter daemons - is countered by daemons. What is the point? Why do grey-knights actually exist?
At the moment, they are a line of very pretty models.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
Xenomancers wrote: When the army that is supposed to counter daemons - is countered by daemons. What is the point? Why do grey-knights actually exist?
At the moment, they are a line of very pretty models.
SJ
We're basically back to 3rd edition. Just with more model choices and without the cool "gotcha" of Force weapons which ignore Eternal Warrior.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Okay, so none of that is exactly revolutionary, but I don't think I've seen anyone mix the Paladin / Apothecaries with the Strikes with the cheap inquisition drops to deep strike the GK half exactly so. The plan is simple: Almost always deep strike all the GK bodies and force feed them to the enemy. The acolytes space out around the razorbacks to be slightly annoying things that have to get shot up before the enemy can deep strike right next to them, or go hide on objectives when possible. I might drop the hammers in the strike squads to reclaim a few points, but I don't know where else I'd spend them.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
macexor wrote: Thought I might ask GK players about this thing.
If a GK unit uses Gate of Infinity, do stratagems like Auspex Scan or Eldar's Forewarned enable enemy units to shoot at units coming via Gate?
The 'reinforcements' blurb in the main rules is very broad and covers anything which looks like deepstrike no matter what it is called and what phase its in. Gate of infinity therefore = deploying via reinforcements The only requirement for the stratagems is for the target to be arriving via reinforcements.
So yes, the stratagems can be used vs GOI (twice in one turn if you are also deepstriking, due to the different phase)
^^ I think thats right based on a cursory read through of the related rules, any other takes?
Been wondering since I haven't see anyone mentioning it. How does the Doomglaive Dreadnought fare in this edition?
I have been tempted to get it just because I like how it looks and don't own any FW stuff
macexor wrote: Thought I might ask GK players about this thing.
If a GK unit uses Gate of Infinity, do stratagems like Auspex Scan or Eldar's Forewarned enable enemy units to shoot at units coming via Gate?
The 'reinforcements' blurb in the main rules is very broad and covers anything which looks like deepstrike no matter what it is called and what phase its in. Gate of infinity therefore = deploying via reinforcements The only requirement for the stratagems is for the target to be arriving via reinforcements.
So yes, the stratagems can be used vs GOI (twice in one turn if you are also deepstriking, due to the different phase)
^^ I think thats right based on a cursory read through of the related rules, any other takes?
The stratagem only works vs reinforcements.Gates =/= reinforcements. You already have to be on the table to be gated you're not going off board and then coming back via reinforcements. Otherwise it would work on models disembarking from vehicles.
Doomglaive is great! The Heavy Psycannon is honestly a pretty good weapon, putting it on a cheaper platform than the NDK helps it shine. I drop mine out the back of a Stormraven and he's as killy as a venerable, S9 is plenty of hitting power. He does go down like a dread to high AP weaponry so being in combat is safest Landing close enough to use an incinerator is fun. Also, you may look into Furioso bits; the Force Spear and the Frag Cannon look decent enough with just a few minor tweaks and come cheaper online. If you know a BA player they may have these lying around.
I'm not sure how to work with my Storm Raven. I love the dakka but I hate the lack of maneuverability. I mean move 20" or so. Next turn make a 90 to the left or right and repeat. I don't like going into hover as you lose a lot of your defense when you do so.
I wish they put back the old rule that allowed embarked troops to disembark at the end of the transport's movement. As it is now I feel like if I attack with my Raven I risk all of the units that are embarked on my opponent's next turn. And I certainly don't want to risk a dread considering that it has a 1/6 chance of being outright destroyed in an explosion.
...So Reecius says we are playing wrong when the first thing any of us did was look at the units in the codex competitively, said DKGM and Strikes were the best things. They are OBVIOUSLY the best things in the codex.
If playing GK is taking those two, and adding AM Reecius is as dumb as the 7th ed. Psychic phase writers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: GK could easily be fixed by simply adding a few things. As in....
Null Deployment, which would fix their weak durability.
Increase the number of attacks each model gets by 1.
Normal Smite.
Hell maybe we could balance this by getting rid of their anti-daemon properties?!?! Which are worth crap because they have next to no attacks that actually connect.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/20 14:58:46
I'm still awed that GW explained that GK termies have a lower Ld score than normal SM termies due to the fact that the SM ones have more combat experience than the GK ones.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm still awed that GW explained that GK termies have a lower Ld score than normal SM termies due to the fact that the SM ones have more combat experience than the GK ones.
That's the way it's been since 5th I'm pretty sure though.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm not sure how to work with my Storm Raven. I love the dakka but I hate the lack of maneuverability. I mean move 20" or so. Next turn make a 90 to the left or right and repeat. I don't like going into hover as you lose a lot of your defense when you do so.
I wish they put back the old rule that allowed embarked troops to disembark at the end of the transport's movement. As it is now I feel like if I attack with my Raven I risk all of the units that are embarked on my opponent's next turn. And I certainly don't want to risk a dread considering that it has a 1/6 chance of being outright destroyed in an explosion.
Don't use it as transport. Way too many eggs in one basket. It's good as just a gunship.
I'm going to drop both of my flyers and try a Land Raider with 5 paladins and a paladin ancient in it.
So it will be:
Draigo, Voldus and, a brother (warlord)
Ven Dread, the above paladins
3 5 man strike squads
Land Raider.
I start with the raider loaded with paladins as 1 drop, the Ven dread on the board everything else deep striking. If I have to Draigo and Voldus will also start on the board (I'm not sure if embarking is putting the models on the table or into tactical reserves).[ https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/747769.page ]
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/20 22:11:09
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Elric you should absolutely run a banner with that many overchargers in one place.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
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