Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The earth shakers I have are the right size for a basilisk in my opinion and that is what they are going to have to become.

Considering that robots weren't nerfed, and a whole lot of stuff was ... I actually think phosphor bots only got more dominant with chapter approved. GW actually just left them wholly unnerfed, even gave them 10 points with 240 point Cawl. The only thing I am actually afraid of now are Chaos Obliterators, which somehow escaped any kind of nerf. number 2 at socal open had 6 squads of those things.

Well I’m not gonna be the one to say it. Let’s just be grateful and move on lol

Interestingly Infiltrators are now 22ppm regardless of which loadout they have, which is how it used to be.

Ruststalkers still needed, something. I mean there’s now only 2ppm difference between the two sicarians. Taser goads and firing in CC more than make up for the one less attack so why on earth would you pick ruststalkers now? They’re somehow in a worse place than they were before lol

Phosphor serpenta is still not worth 4 points I mean...when a storm Bolter is now two points...yeah, they’re still off the mark with that.

No-one is gonna take an enhanced data tether at 5 points either.

Heavy arc rifles for 6 points is pretty darn frugal, a squad of breachers isnt replacing vanguard or rangers as troops choice for detachments, but they make a pretty sneaky anti-light vehicle cell. I’ve only just realised we have no strategms or anything for arc weaponry...hmm. That’s a shame.

They’re also not gonna get me to use torsion cannons, especially when heavy arc rifles are less than a 3rd of the price when all I’m paying for is wounding most vehicles on a 3. I mean I guess -4 wipes out a Russ save but anything with an invulnerable save there’s much less difference between -2 and -4.

Servo arm is just a flavour of power fist now at the same price point, which is fair. If only kastellan fists weren’t double the cost for essentially less str and no -1, but your WS is at 4+ anyway so it’s virtually the same. Still way over costed.

And finally making the eradication Beamer cheaper isn’t incentive enough for people to drop Icarus or neutron for it. 115 points for a Beamer onager though... that’s pretty interesting if you compare it to a robot that’s only 5 points less. Swap your 6 robots for 6 Beamer onagers...I mean you lose your volume of shot and your wrath potential but just the hilarious ness of putting 6-8 onagers down on the table how would you fit all those bases lol

Overall i’m pretty happy with that, it gives me some options. I like options.

Octovol wrote:
Well I’m not gonna be the one to say it. Let’s just be grateful and move on lol

Interestingly Infiltrators are now 22ppm regardless of which loadout they have, which is how it used to be.

Ruststalkers still needed, something. I mean there’s now only 2ppm difference between the two sicarians. Taser goads and firing in CC more than make up for the one less attack so why on earth would you pick ruststalkers now? They’re somehow in a worse place than they were before lol

Phosphor serpenta is still not worth 4 points I mean...when a storm Bolter is now two points...yeah, they’re still off the mark with that.

No-one is gonna take an enhanced data tether at 5 points either.

Heavy arc rifles for 6 points is pretty darn frugal, a squad of breachers isnt replacing vanguard or rangers as troops choice for detachments, but they make a pretty sneaky anti-light vehicle cell. I’ve only just realised we have no strategms or anything for arc weaponry...hmm. That’s a shame.

They’re also not gonna get me to use torsion cannons, especially when heavy arc rifles are less than a 3rd of the price when all I’m paying for is wounding most vehicles on a 3. I mean I guess -4 wipes out a Russ save but anything with an invulnerable save there’s much less difference between -2 and -4.

Servo arm is just a flavour of power fist now at the same price point, which is fair. If only kastellan fists weren’t double the cost for essentially less str and no -1, but your WS is at 4+ anyway so it’s virtually the same. Still way over costed.

And finally making the eradication Beamer cheaper isn’t incentive enough for people to drop Icarus or neutron for it. 115 points for a Beamer onager though... that’s pretty interesting if you compare it to a robot that’s only 5 points less. Swap your 6 robots for 6 Beamer onagers...I mean you lose your volume of shot and your wrath potential but just the hilarious ness of putting 6-8 onagers down on the table how would you fit all those bases lol

Overall i’m pretty happy with that, it gives me some options. I like options.

lol imagine screening with them, they're basically or close to, leman russ's in durabilitiy with that rerollable 5++ and they move and shoot without penalty.

Kataphrons still trash, ruststalkers not touched at all (WHAT).

However the post on the page makes it seem like Cawl will get FAQd to 260 or something

Also, so I was right :p :p :p

I'm surprised the point changes were so sweeping. This actually might be a bad idea in the long run. >_>

Automatically Appended Next Post:
After more thought, I realized that minimum Rangers are not as good as Guardsmen, but come 6 points cheaper (assuming you bring a Boltgun on the Sergeant). In fact, the barebones Stygies Battalion has dropped a whopping 25 points.

Another fun fact: you can squadron the Basilisks up to cut down on units.

So new list, this one is minGuard+Mars+Stygies (and without an illegal detachment like my last list):


And here's a Guard+Stygies variant:


OH. And this crazy thing, which I was looking through my lists and realized that I finally have enough points to do:

This one is pretty neat because all of your Canticles are going to one dedicated melee unit. Also, all of the Tech-Priests get access to stratagems and whatnot because of your lone Auxiliary unit even though they are in the Guard detachment as advisors.

So yeah, lots of new possibilities with all these free points.

As said nothing really changes. 70 points in a pure ad mech list already using breachers .changing one enginseer for a dominus.
WOW
still a good change but ... need lot more work on ad mech.
Hq options relics auras synergy buffs etc.New units each slot to make proper detachments. Options still not there

Pleased with these changes. The list I played on Thursday night is now about 110 pts cheaper, so I can fit another Kastelan in perhaps.

Or a unit of Ruststalkers. I hear they're good.

Ruststalkers. Good. Pick one.

Overall I'm quite happy with this as we got the buffs I expected without nerfing kastellans. We left Chapter Approved stronger than we came in and that's a win but I still can't grasp the ruststalkers. Comparatively speaking they're even worse now! Fulgurites went back down to 16 and infiltrators went down 2/4ppm, so couldn't they at least have gotten that decrease? Oh well, I guess I'll just pretend they don't exist.

And even though they still aren't quite good enough in my opinion I might try and field som katphrons, shame they didn't drop another 5 points though

Robots not nerfed! Cawl not nerfed!

Vanguard and Rangers went down another 1 point each too. I'm going to give 15-20 rangers another go.

EDIT: I have updated my list as follows:

240 Archmagos Phobos 47 Enginseer 56 8 rangers 35 5 rangers 35 5 rangers 440 4 robots 140 neutron onager 140 neutron onager 30 Company Commander 108 Basilisk, heavy bolter 108 Basilisk, heavy bolter 108 Basilisk, heavy bolter 108 Basilisk, heavy bolter 41 Elysian Commander, bolter 54 5 stormtroopers, plasma pistol 54 5 stormtroopers, plasma pistol 80 4 plasma command squad 51 3 plasma special weapons squad 51 3 plasma special weapons squad 70 Eversor Assassin 1996/2000p 8cp

 ph34r wrote:
The earth shakers I have are the right size for a basilisk in my opinion and that is what they are going to have to become.

Yeah. I compared it. They fit inside of a 130mm base; it's like a quarter inch longer and almost an inch wider on either side.

I might do a mass Skitarii Deep Strike Lucius list now. I don't even care if it's gonna be bad!

I know alot of you guys aren't keen on breachers but I love them. They look awesome and now with this update me fielding 3 squads ofthem just freed up like 80 pts from my lists. I'm excited!! Though I agree ruststalkers are hot gargbage but they look really really cool.

If you are going to run them, maybe try Agripinaa and recycle them constantly?

I play mostly Graia and/or Lucius. The Refusal to yield is nice to have on my blolbs of Rangers and Vanguard but Lucius with its teleportation strategem and ignore -1AP have proven to be super good.

I cannot tell you how many times Heavy flamers or bolters have unloaded into my Breachers and my opponet is like take your save at -1 AP and I just get to grin and be like "Well, with shroudpsalm, my breachers are 2+ still."

In depth points things for AdMech(remember. Something with an offensive upgrade should ALWAYS be better as your sacrificing durability per point by increasing the pts value of the model):

Cawl – uh… sure…? Wasn’t he supposed to increase in price as he is a must take?

Dominus – needed a pts reduction. -10 is not enough. Cawl and Enginseer(as they got a reduction too) will continue to dominate the HQ slot. Eradication Ray and Phosphor serpenta are still much worse than their counterparts when they should be better.
Should’ve been 90 pts base, the weapon prices should switch as the upgrades are worse and cost more right now

Enginseer – needed a pts reduction. -5 is not enough. Still has a dumb overcosted servoarm attached to him. Why wasn’t that changed? Just make it cost 2 so servitors would actually be viable. Enginseer shuold be 30 base + 2 pts for the arm as he is just a tax. He can’t shoot or fight at all.

Breachers – needed a huge pts reduction. -7 is not nearly enough. Torsion cannon remains a complete joke that should be free to be viable. Arc Rifle remains an anti vehicle weapon with STR 6 and AP 2… Seriously. Read those stats again… Defense wise they are almost good. However the rules of the game go against them. Multi wound units are a lot weaker than the same amount of 1 wound units.

Destroyers – needed a change in their durability somehow or a big pts reduction. Right now they are OK at doing damage but their durability is one of the worst in the game and they can be targeted as soon as turn 1. Why take these when DakKastelans exist who do similar damage and are way way waaaaay more durable.

Fulgurites – needed a pts reduction because their durability is terrible. -1 is most certainly not enough. Why were they increased to 17 to begin with? They don’t do much damage as their weapons work against multi wound models (which are not popular as screening units) and they aren’t that much more durable even with they 3++ buff because they still remain toughness 3 trash.

Cospuscarii – needed a pts reduction because their durability is even worse. Least durable unit we have. Completelly unchanged despite seeing 0 competitive play.

Kastelans – unchanged. Melee is way overpriced still and sees 0 competitive play. Ranged should’ve gotten a price increase as they are a no brainer.

Datasmith – needed a pts reduction. Powerfist got fixed. Might actually be taken now as a fill for elite. Probably not though. The insta protocol switch is too powerful in most cases to bother with these.

Servitors – stated as the worst unit in the game. Remains unchanged. Thanks. Why does servo arm still cost 12 again?

Vanguard and rangers – still outclassed by most troops. Upgrades still terrible on slow, fragile, vulnerable to morale bodies. Pistols still useless. Melee weapons still useless.

Infiltrators – still outclassed by most deepstrikers. Terrible durability. If they whiff their charge – they are really bad.

Ruststalkers – UNCHANGED?!?! What??? The deserved their price cut in half (not even kidding)

Balistarii – Unchanged??? They are outclassed by every other artilerry we have…

Dragoons – Unchaged? The ranged version is terrible and no one in their right mind would ever take them as ranged.

Onagers – Eradication Beamer still sucks and the worst one (phosphor) remains unchanged.

So what actually changed at the end of the day? Vanguard and Rangers good better but still not great. Breachers might actually be used to screen(doubt it). Overpriced HQs are now less overpriced.

What didn’t change: every useless unit(Breachers, Destroyers, Ruststalkers, Balistarii, Servitors, Datasmith, Dominus) and upgrade(too many to name) are still useless and probably won’t see any play. Wah wah…

And all that are changes for the already broken codex.

Even f you get those changes for the units we got we d still miss.

Hq cheap options customisation auras melee options
Troops tactic options like dunestrider run charge etc.
Elite option to be able to make detachments from high point units to cheap ones.
Heavy if you don't plant to get you transports then I d recommend a good mobile one.
Fast if even the fliers don't suit your design then we should start considering mobility for all the army .
Relic revamp. Need to have option to regain command points since a an army we got all our options in stratagems . Either give 1-2 when you take dominus or. Give a 5+ like guard.
+++ Point reductions for the paper army.

Make rustalkers 3 wounds each and give then a princep able to take a relic for free or equip gear abilities etc. Any from inf ,run charge extra move something. And options for melee. We are almost cyborg army and we got zero augments. If they wanted they would have done a lot.

Want to increase the points i care not but this should become a viable army soon. Increase points give option fast!!

Jesus I know some stuff costs too much but some of the price changes you ask are just madness, Ruststalkers should not be 10 pts each when they can deal a mountain of mortal wounds with a little luck (have done it before). Free torsion cannon ? You want a T5 3W 3+ model to shoot at S8 AP-4 for 35 pts ? Be realistic please, some people believe AdMech is already pretty strong when facing my lists, I don't need people to start thinking I win my games because I have an OP army.

I'm happy for all the point changes described in CA, I think Ruststalkers should've got a reduction but not a drastic one. Or just give them their grenades back for Mars' sake.

Really happy that I'll be able to field more Vanguards without feeling like I'm doing self-harm. They shouldn't cost less than that honestly, my hypothesis is they're balancing AM with the knowledge that we'll get a transport with FoC, so no need to have 5 pts Vanguards. And now that the enhanced data-tether is way cheaper (5 pts) building full units is viable. And that's all I need. I'll have to build models with the data-tether now though :/ I won't be crying anymore when I see them getting slaughtered in one volley because of my bad save rolls.

My battle Dominus just got cheaper ! Eradication Ray is a great weapon, even better now. I'll never forget that game against Salamanders where he successfully finished a 2W Ironclad in Overwatch, then proceeded to kill a dozen SM and Scouts by himself in CC and with the Macrostubber.

When you're playing full Stygies with 3 plasma Destroyers you're happy to have them because Kastelan Robots are not made to shoot regular vehicles without Wrath of Mars. I've had great results so far with my Destroyers, using some Stratagems it's even better. Some people are almost calling them OP but know that they know they're to be shot first they'll see they're not really tough. The 5 pts reduction is most welcome.

Weird that they haven't adressed the servo-arm issue when it's clear it needs adjustment.

I literally compared Ruststalkers to similar choices and had to cut price in HALF to get similar durability and damage per point.
Torsion cannon is complete dogcrap that doesn't next to nothing. 4+ to hit, remember? ONE attack. So 3 attacks. Shave half of for hitting. 1,5 potential wounds. Shave half of for wounding. 0,75 to go through invul saves. Ok 0,5. Times 3,5. Wowee 1,75 wounds on a Knight for 3 torsion cannons. Sure is worth a third of a knights cost. Meanwhile a knight annhialates all 3 breachers in one fn turn

And yes, using a comma is superior than using a dot to separate decimals :p

Sure on average without any re-rolls you might not do much, but one day you'll be lucky and your opponent might not, and you'll strip 18 wounds off in one go and he'll look at your 90 pts unit calling them broken. I mean a Scions command squad full of meltas cost 104 pts post-CA and it can potentially kill it in one go too, never trust 5+ saves. I laugh at Knights, in my meta full of lascannons and smites you'd just lose 500 pts in a single turn. The bigger they are...

Calculating averages and damage-per-point is good at giving a good idea of the capabilities of a unit, but you don't win games with mathematics. In most of my games my units either brainfreeze or go insane like my 3 Vanguards who survived a round of CC against Genestealers and stomped them the next round. Averages and damage-per-point are nice but don't make up for what could happen in a game. You could be facing a hard-counter army or something so nuts in its composition that your tactics wouldn't matter.

How else are you supposed to evaluate the units if not averages?

 Aaranis wrote:
Sure on average without any re-rolls you might not do much, but one day you'll be lucky and your opponent might not, and you'll strip 18 wounds off in one go and he'll look at your 90 pts unit calling them broken. I mean a Scions command squad full of meltas cost 104 pts post-CA and it can potentially kill it in one go too, never trust 5+ saves. I laugh at Knights, in my meta full of lascannons and smites you'd just lose 500 pts in a single turn. The bigger they are...

Calculating averages and damage-per-point is good at giving a good idea of the capabilities of a unit, but you don't win games with mathematics. In most of my games my units either brainfreeze or go insane like my 3 Vanguards who survived a round of CC against Genestealers and stomped them the next round. Averages and damage-per-point are nice but don't make up for what could happen in a game. You could be facing a hard-counter army or something so nuts in its composition that your tactics wouldn't matter.

We won't take for granded one in 100 games and ignore the facts. Math give us statistics and most likely is what you LL face more or less. What you say is your dream world ad mech. And I m glad you love them but they don't deliver in competitive environment. Maybe sometimes could but consistency is a serious issue especially when enemies roll 2d6 and keep best etc. And knight has high toughness and high wound count yes sure it can die and I don't use them but high toughness is what you pay both breachers and knight. Both suck and torsion Cannon is random to say at least. Onager Robots etc. If that was the case then d6 shots plasma destroyers could be awesome . They are not especially when you spend command points to shoot bs 3+ Ryza and you roll 3d6 and get average 6-9 shots. That is a fact and it's what they do and why you loose. While again your enemies for same points get 9 shots default rerolling ones with deep strike. And got points for a second group practically making our units look like dead weight. If it was random for all sure but if you play d6 luck vs steady 5 shots you d loose every single time. Consistency wins you game .

It's not fun to get smashed 80% of the time. While a) you got one list serious b) same strat. Dakka wall c) no options any slot any formation any units etc.
It ends up being the same game all over. And it's bad for you and your friend playing with you. He will get bored from your robots eventually learn to take anti robot list and gg. Play 20 games and you LL see this clearly.

Rest are dream talks. And any one played 10+ games knows ad mech has atm no versatile play as you move towards more serious games. No tour games. Serious ones. When. You friend ask you to bring a list to test his good units. Keep dreaming.

Tip now lower cost troops and breachers can make nice horde list tbh. Not the best but could be something. With special wepaons tons of stratagems Omni and data snipers plasma arc and breachers could be fun!!

Why does servo arm need a reduction? It’s the same points cost as a power fist with one less ap and a straight 3 dmg instead of d3. Though I guess servo arm you can only uses once per fight whereas a power fist can be used for all your attacks.

I actually much prefer the eradication Ray to the volkite blaster on my dominus, for the same reason fulgurites are way better than ruststalkers. You rely on rolling a 6 to wound with no abilities to augment it. We have zero wound roll adjustments so I prefer not to rely on it. Whereas we do have + to hit abilities and re-roll to-hits so abilities like taser weapons have much better synergy.

I do still think all the kataphron weapons should also be cheaper. Guard gets points breaks on their heavy weapons because they’re being wielded by troops that can’t shoot as well as a marine. Kataphrons are exactly the same yet we don’t get a points break for them.

I don’t get all the hate for the heavy arc rifle. Where else can you pay 6 points and get 2 x d3/d6 dmg shots with -2 ap. the fact that it’s str 6 means it’s wounding most vehicles on a 4 or 5, which is fine. Because you paid 6 points for it. Otherwise it’d be a plasma or lascannon points cost. It’s pretty well balanced imo. 40 points each now on breachers, they arguably better in combat than kastellans too.

Kataphron destroyers should be cheaper base for sure. They have one less attack and a 1+ worse save. Yet they are the same base cost as a breacher. Not sure how they justify that. If they were bs 3 I’d maybe consider the same cost being viable. Maybe.

Torsion cannon yeah, no. I think i’d Pay 15 points for it. I mean it’s a single shot on a below average bs unit with overcharged-plasma-str, better than most ap and dmg at 24”. I’d pay the current 20 if it were d3 shots. Heavy grav could do with str 6, I’m not sure of its purpose for 30 points. Termie killer? I’d rather take balistarii with autocannon 66ppm vs 75ppm but balistarii is an infinitely better platform.

I still don’t get why there’s no way to improve bs and ws of kataphrons like with servitors, would actually give enginseer a use then. That’s not gonna be changed any time soon now though. Chapter approved is core rules missions and systems updates and points balances. The bi-annual faqs are clarifications for those rules and codexes are few new models, rules and fundamental army changes as before. There’s plenty to improve on with admech, but even with fires of cyraxus our existing options won’t be improved. Not directly anyway. I guess they may add another unit to improve kataphrons with an aura, a transport for melee troop improvement and some form of flying thing to give us some mobility

Yeah said it numerous times. New edition new index codex faq bla bla still not playable or valid other than a broken robot dakka line and when they hear me say I bring robots all my friends go sad face.

Octovol wrote:


I still don’t get why there’s no way to improve bs and ws of kataphrons like with servitors, would actually give enginseer a use then. That’s not gonna be changed any time soon now though. Chapter approved is core rules missions and systems updates and points balances. The bi-annual faqs are clarifications for those rules and codexes are few new models, rules and fundamental army changes as before. There’s plenty to improve on with admech, but even with fires of cyraxus our existing options won’t be improved. Not directly anyway. I guess they may add another unit to improve kataphrons with an aura, a transport for melee troop improvement and some form of flying thing to give us some mobility

It is incredibly expensive at 3 CP total to pull off, but I run Ryza and you can combine the 2 CP +1 to hit for kataphrons and kastellans with the 1 CP +1 to wound and damage on plasma to just evaporate stuff. I run 3 dakka kastellans and 6 plasma kataphrons near a magus. Ends up being roughly 16 plasma hits that wound almost everything on 2s and deal 3 damage a pop, + a bunch of kastellan hits that ignore cover for flushing infantry. I know this combo is not exactly a secret, but it is pretty stong.

Valentine009 wrote:

Octovol wrote:


I still don’t get why there’s no way to improve bs and ws of kataphrons like with servitors, would actually give enginseer a use then. That’s not gonna be changed any time soon now though. Chapter approved is core rules missions and systems updates and points balances. The bi-annual faqs are clarifications for those rules and codexes are few new models, rules and fundamental army changes as before. There’s plenty to improve on with admech, but even with fires of cyraxus our existing options won’t be improved. Not directly anyway. I guess they may add another unit to improve kataphrons with an aura, a transport for melee troop improvement and some form of flying thing to give us some mobility

It is incredibly expensive at 3 CP total to pull off, but I run Ryza and you can combine the 2 CP +1 to hit for kataphrons and kastellans with the 1 CP +1 to wound and damage on plasma to just evaporate stuff. I run 3 dakka kastellans and 6 plasma kataphrons near a magus. Ends up being roughly 16 plasma hits that wound almost everything on 2s and deal 3 damage a pop, + a bunch of kastellan hits that ignore cover for flushing infantry. I know this combo is not exactly a secret, but it is pretty stong.

Indeed, but regular servitors get a +1 to bs and ws just for being near a tech priest, yet kataphrons don’t. It’s not gonna change any time soon, it’s just yet another item to prove that whoever was tasked with the admech codex knew nothing about them.

Unless a new model pops up with a kataphron-specific aura-buff, which is unlikely. The stuff from fires of cyraxus is the only place we’re likely to get new units from any time soon and that is more likely to be analogous to some of the 30k units. Myrmidons are the 30k kataphron equivalent, but fluff-wise they would be vastly superior in all aspects bar durability, so wouldn’t need any aura buffs.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
How else are you supposed to evaluate the units if not averages?

I counter your math with supposition and belief in outcomes that would help my argument!

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Dominus – needed a pts reduction. -10 is not enough. Cawl and Enginseer(as they got a reduction too) will continue to dominate the HQ slot. Eradication Ray and Phosphor serpenta are still much worse than their counterparts when they should be better.
Should’ve been 90 pts base, the weapon prices should switch as the upgrades are worse and cost more right now

Enginseer – needed a pts reduction. -5 is not enough. Still has a dumb overcosted servoarm attached to him. Why wasn’t that changed? Just make it cost 2 so servitors would actually be viable. Enginseer shuold be 30 base + 2 pts for the arm as he is just a tax. He can’t shoot or fight at all.

Vanguard and rangers – still outclassed by most troops. Upgrades still terrible on slow, fragile, vulnerable to morale bodies. Pistols still useless. Melee weapons still useless.

Balistarii – Unchanged??? They are outclassed by every other artilerry we have…

Dragoons – Unchaged? The ranged version is terrible and no one in their right mind would ever take them as ranged.

-10 for Dominus is great given it's our best non-Mars shooting option.

-5 for Enginseer is very generous.

-15 points for a Battalion is a big deal, I don't know what you're going on about. We have a very cheap troop tax now. We can even do Brigades.

Ballistarii are terrible in small numbers, but very good now in large numbers. I have a post a few pages back showing how the Doctrina can make a unit of 6x Ballistarii quite terrifying.

Suzuteo wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Dominus – needed a pts reduction. -10 is not enough. Cawl and Enginseer(as they got a reduction too) will continue to dominate the HQ slot. Eradication Ray and Phosphor serpenta are still much worse than their counterparts when they should be better.
Should’ve been 90 pts base, the weapon prices should switch as the upgrades are worse and cost more right now

Enginseer – needed a pts reduction. -5 is not enough. Still has a dumb overcosted servoarm attached to him. Why wasn’t that changed? Just make it cost 2 so servitors would actually be viable. Enginseer shuold be 30 base + 2 pts for the arm as he is just a tax. He can’t shoot or fight at all.

Vanguard and rangers – still outclassed by most troops. Upgrades still terrible on slow, fragile, vulnerable to morale bodies. Pistols still useless. Melee weapons still useless.

Balistarii – Unchanged??? They are outclassed by every other artilerry we have…

Dragoons – Unchaged? The ranged version is terrible and no one in their right mind would ever take them as ranged.

-10 for Dominus is great given it's our best non-Mars shooting option.

-5 for Enginseer is very generous.

-15 points for a Battalion is a big deal, I don't know what you're going on about. We have a very cheap troop tax now. We can even do Brigades.

Ballistarii are terrible in small numbers, but very good now in large numbers. I have a post a few pages back showing how the Doctrina can make a unit of 6x Ballistarii quite terrifying.

Right now you can pretty much forget about the repair special rule as you will always have an abundance of mechanics. So ignoring that - both HQs are overcosted IMO. Compare current Enginseer to current Primaris psyker. Which would you pick if Psyker was ad mech.

Why should the troops be a tax? Are cultists, infantry, poxwalkers, gants tax? No. They are the core of the army. Why does skitarii need to be tax?

Balistarii are god if you keep feeding them CP and are forced to take a lot of them. That's not a good combo at all...