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Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Lost Carcosa

 Puganaut wrote:
Has anyone got much experience with Saim-Hann?

I feel like an outrider detachment of something like:
Autarch Skyrunner w/novalance
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Windriders: 3x shuri cannon

Maybe chuck in a farseer skyrunner for survivability, but for under 500 points that's a surprisingly durable, mobile and heavy-hitting little detachment without using spears. Is it competitive at all?


I'm not a fan of one shot weapons (lances) that are at a near constant -1 to hit because you are often moving. Except on Crimson Hunters since their BS is already so high.

Though I suppose if you found a spot you could post up and not need to move, its nice since with their high speed when you do need to eventually move you can get re-positioned in a hurry.

Standing in the light, I see only darkness.  
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

 Marius Xerxes wrote:
 Puganaut wrote:
Has anyone got much experience with Saim-Hann?

I feel like an outrider detachment of something like:
Autarch Skyrunner w/novalance
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Windriders: 3x shuri cannon

Maybe chuck in a farseer skyrunner for survivability, but for under 500 points that's a surprisingly durable, mobile and heavy-hitting little detachment without using spears. Is it competitive at all?


I'm not a fan of one shot weapons (lances) that are at a near constant -1 to hit because you are often moving. Except on Crimson Hunters since their BS is already so high.

Though I suppose if you found a spot you could post up and not need to move, its nice since with their high speed when you do need to eventually move you can get re-positioned in a hurry.


I think the OP’s reason for doing Saimm-Hain is that their vypers don’t incur a penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Lost Carcosa

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
 Marius Xerxes wrote:
 Puganaut wrote:
Has anyone got much experience with Saim-Hann?

I feel like an outrider detachment of something like:
Autarch Skyrunner w/novalance
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Windriders: 3x shuri cannon

Maybe chuck in a farseer skyrunner for survivability, but for under 500 points that's a surprisingly durable, mobile and heavy-hitting little detachment without using spears. Is it competitive at all?


I'm not a fan of one shot weapons (lances) that are at a near constant -1 to hit because you are often moving. Except on Crimson Hunters since their BS is already so high.

Though I suppose if you found a spot you could post up and not need to move, its nice since with their high speed when you do need to eventually move you can get re-positioned in a hurry.


I think the OP’s reason for doing Saimm-Hain is that their vypers don’t incur a penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons.


Clearly I need a second cup of coffee this morning. I totally didn't see the Siamm-Hain part mentioned.

Standing in the light, I see only darkness.  
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

I was thinking about something similar, possibly with two windrider units and one vyper unit, and the vypers with catapults since they want to stand off at range anyway. It’s only 5 points, but when you’re talking about 3-4 models then that adds up.

Also I’ve been having good experiences with my ulthwe bike autarch, with just the (index version) laser lance and fusion gun. Running around off on his own with the phoenix gem, he’s a real workhorse of breaking down enemy characters and finishing off tough enemy units. With the SH craftworld buff and the novalance, seems like he’d be even more effective.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

I have been using an Autarch on Jetbike with Lance and Shimmerplume helm and he is doing great work for me. He buffs my shooty units early on and then acts to counter-charge anything getting too close.

So far his tally of kills across just 2 games include a Tervagon, a Swarmlord, finishing off a Paladin squad and (best of all) charging and destroying a Stormraven. Granted all the above had been softened up first but he definitely packs quite a punch on the charge and the Novalance version even moreso.

Sadly the Dreadknight Grand Master proved too much for him but he cost twice as many points so that is not exactly surprising.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Am i currently crazy or is someone at gw. Why is the phantom titan 400 points more than a revenant?
   
Made in au
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator





Titanicus wrote:
Am i currently crazy or is someone at gw. Why is the phantom titan 400 points more than a revenant?


Forgeworld points have gone a bit mad, especially with chapter approved. I think they're not too concerned with balancing those big units as they're very rare in conventional games, or they're preemptively balancing for some big apocalypse kind of rollout next year. Just speculation
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

 Puganaut wrote:
Has anyone got much experience with Saim-Hann?

I feel like an outrider detachment of something like:
Autarch Skyrunner w/novalance
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Windriders: 3x shuri cannon

Maybe chuck in a farseer skyrunner for survivability, but for under 500 points that's a surprisingly durable, mobile and heavy-hitting little detachment without using spears. Is it competitive at all?


This is almost my newest detachment, except I don't have any cannons or scatter lasers for my bikes so I was going to go with a unit of Warp Spiders plus the vypers and Autarch.
And I was taking 2 units of Banshees inside a Saim-Hann WS as well.
Then I was going to try a gunline with Alaitoc to try to see if the Vypers could be spared for more juicy targets.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, REMEMBER if your Autarch is from one faction, he will be able to do little in buffing for your other faction units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 14:28:54


 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in au
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator





 admironheart wrote:
 Puganaut wrote:
Has anyone got much experience with Saim-Hann?

I feel like an outrider detachment of something like:
Autarch Skyrunner w/novalance
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Vypers: 2x bright lance + cannon
Windriders: 3x shuri cannon

Maybe chuck in a farseer skyrunner for survivability, but for under 500 points that's a surprisingly durable, mobile and heavy-hitting little detachment without using spears. Is it competitive at all?


This is almost my newest detachment, except I don't have any cannons or scatter lasers for my bikes so I was going to go with a unit of Warp Spiders plus the vypers and Autarch.
And I was taking 2 units of Banshees inside a Saim-Hann WS as well.
Then I was going to try a gunline with Alaitoc to try to see if the Vypers could be spared for more juicy targets.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, REMEMBER if your Autarch is from one faction, he will be able to do little in buffing for your other faction units.


I'm going to give it a shot too, might use scat bikes to make full advantage of the rule, and because I still own scat bikes. I think the autarch will get enough value going off with the detachment, gunline should perform well enough without him?
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

anyone have any luck going with a gunline elder list?

If so what units do you use?

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 admironheart wrote:
anyone have any luck going with a gunline elder list?

If so what units do you use?

Dark Reapers.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 DarknessEternal wrote:
 admironheart wrote:
anyone have any luck going with a gunline elder list?
If so what units do you use?

Dark Reapers.

And Fire Prisms

And War walkers

Then add just enough units to screen them from deep strikers and blaze away all day.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Sure, if you want to water it down, you can use Fire Prisms and War Walkers.

Fire Prisms are pretty mediocre even when you have command points to spend.

War Walkers are just trash though.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

I have found Fire Prisms great IF you have the CPs to spend. 4 shots at your choice of profile rerolling both to hit and to wound. Only a smidge over 300 points for the pair.

War walkers are good for spamming Brightlances. Reapers are great I do not deny but maxing out at AP-2 means that tougher vehicles are always going to be a slog. Put a bunch of Brightlances on a War Walker squadron and cast Guide for some seriously focussed anti-tank firepower. Plus the Walkers can move on in your Turn 1 meaning you opponent cannot alpha them if they get the first turn.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Gunlines can be quite awesome for Eldar. Warwalkers are not trash at all, in fact they can be incredibly useful.

Beil-tan craftworld, take a farseer as your warlord and give him Natural Leader, Guide, and Doom or Fortune depending on what your feeling. Take 2 squads of 3 warwalkers each, equip them however you want, I take missile launchers but bright lances or shuriken cannons are both options as well depending on your situation. Use natural leader on squad 1, guide on squad 2, enjoy rerolling all failed hits for both squads.

Follow that up with 30 dire avengers, add 2 wraith lords with 2 shuriken cannons each, and 3 wave serpents with shuriken cannons and bright lances, and you have a heavy gunline. That's what my basic 2000 point eldar list is and I have not lost with this list since I got the 6 warwalkers in my meta, list is 5 / 0 vs Space Marines, Chaos Deamons, Tyrnaids, and Death Guard. Granted no Mortarion, and deamons was a one sided battle, but a win is a win.
   
Made in de
Boosting Black Templar Biker




War walkers are the best brightlance platforms period. They have the option to flank to mitigate alpha strike and tend to get ignored in favor of the flashy units. They also are good targets for guide and fortune, as you buff two or three vehicles with one power. And their profile belies their resilience.
They are no win condition by themselves but they are a solid workhorse and a unit of three with lances eats a rhino chassis a turn.





 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
War walkers are the best brightlance platforms period. They have the option to flank to mitigate alpha strike and tend to get ignored in favor of the flashy units. They also are good targets for guide and fortune, as you buff two or three vehicles with one power. And their profile belies their resilience.
They are no win condition by themselves but they are a solid workhorse and a unit of three with lances eats a rhino chassis a turn.

I disagree that they are the "best" BL platform. They are one of the best, sure, but THE best is a Crimson Hunter. It's tougher and hits on 3+, instead of 4+ (because even flanking counts as moving)
A CH Exarch cost 5pt less than 2 BL WWs and while it has 2 BLs and a Pulse laser instead of 4 total BLs, the damage output is much, much more reliable because if its durability, hitting on 3+ while moving AND re-rolling 1s to hit.

The only thing that makes a WW more appealing it the fact that you can spend less points and get 1 guaranteed volley off before the opponent can direct fire to it, even if that volley is far, far less affective as a CH.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/13 14:50:56


   
Made in us
Deadly Dire Avenger




 Galef wrote:
Cpt. Icanus wrote:
War walkers are the best brightlance platforms period. They have the option to flank to mitigate alpha strike and tend to get ignored in favor of the flashy units. They also are good targets for guide and fortune, as you buff two or three vehicles with one power. And their profile belies their resilience.
They are no win condition by themselves but they are a solid workhorse and a unit of three with lances eats a rhino chassis a turn.

I disagree that they are the "best" BL platform. They are one of the best, sure, but THE best is a Crimson Hunter. It's tougher and hits on 3+, instead of 4+ (because even flanking counts as moving)
A CH Exarch cost 5pt less than 2 BL WWs and while it has 2 BLs and a Pulse laser instead of 4 total BLs, the damage output is much, much more reliable because if its durability, hitting on 3+ while moving AND re-rolling 1s to hit.

The only thing that makes a WW more appealing it the fact that you can spend less points and get 1 guaranteed volley off before the opponent can direct fire to it, even if that volley is far, far less affective as a CH.

-


Crimson hunters all the way, I've been taking an airwing detachment with 2 hemlocks and a crimson hunter and it's been doing a lot of work for me.
   
Made in de
Defending Guardian Defender






I've been running 3 War Walkers with Brightlance/Starcannon each for a couple of games now and I love them. The price reduction really helped. I'm actually considering to try them with all Starcannons for a game or two.

Must admit I've been playing Space Marines/Chaos a lot and marines/terminators in cover can be really difficult to kill.

Other options might be better per point and I'm often running a unit of Dark Reapers/a Hemlock as well, but instead of repeating these I'm adding the Walkers for a little bit of diversity. Call it a style option and not the most competitive, but while other units might be better on paper they also offer some advantages themself.
   
Made in de
Boosting Black Templar Biker




 Galef wrote:
Cpt. Icanus wrote:
War walkers are the best brightlance platforms period. They have the option to flank to mitigate alpha strike and tend to get ignored in favor of the flashy units. They also are good targets for guide and fortune, as you buff two or three vehicles with one power. And their profile belies their resilience.
They are no win condition by themselves but they are a solid workhorse and a unit of three with lances eats a rhino chassis a turn.

I disagree that they are the "best" BL platform. They are one of the best, sure, but THE best is a Crimson Hunter. It's tougher and hits on 3+, instead of 4+ (because even flanking counts as moving)
A CH Exarch cost 5pt less than 2 BL WWs and while it has 2 BLs and a Pulse laser instead of 4 total BLs, the damage output is much, much more reliable because if its durability, hitting on 3+ while moving AND re-rolling 1s to hit.

The only thing that makes a WW more appealing it the fact that you can spend less points and get 1 guaranteed volley off before the opponent can direct fire to it, even if that volley is far, far less affective as a CH.

-


Point taken, CHs are superior in most regards. Small point in defense of walkers is holding objektives and achieving linebreaker.





 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cpt. Icanus wrote:

Point taken, CHs are superior in most regards. Small point in defense of walkers is holding objektives and achieving linebreaker.

Flyers can still achieve linebreaker, right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/14 00:09:28


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I am not sold on ww being worse than a ch. Ch's are awesome, but ww squad with garunteed guide isn't to be denied it's awesome strength.
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

I'm a big fan of fire Prisms. They have the advantage of being able to get rerolls without relying on psychic powers which is pretty important. Firstly because psychic powers can fail or be denied, secondly because you can only cast Guide and Doom once per turn. So if you have a unit of reapers/war walkers and a Guide+Doom seer you will get diminishing returns by adding a second unit of reapers/war walkers, whereas adding fire Prisms will give you everything shooting with rerolls. Prisms also work nicely with Jinx cast at 36" from a conclave against armies with good Psychic defense- you can Jinx Magnus but you will struggle to get Doom off on him, Prisms care not.

Against Nids recently I used 10 Swooping Hawks with Doom and Guide to decimate a unit of Gants, whilst 3 Fire Prisms linked fire to take out a Genestealer unit. A conclave had cast Jinx on the Stealers form outside the (-2 to hit) Hive Tyrants deny range. Getting to reroll hits and wounds with all of it felt good!

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Azuza001 wrote:
garunteed guide

No such thing.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User






 DarknessEternal wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
garunteed guide

No such thing.


Technically no, but the Biel Tan warlord trait is pretty much guaranteed guide and doesn't stop you casting actual guide.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 matt123456790 wrote:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
garunteed guide

No such thing.


Technically no, but the Biel Tan warlord trait is pretty much guaranteed guide and doesn't stop you casting actual guide.


This. That's what I was talking about with garunteed guide. It has the same effect for free, no psychic test required. I use the warlord trait on one squad and guide on the other. The wlt is going to go off at least.
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

Tried out a list with Wild Riders and Fieldcraft. I did not have enough CPs but the Saim-Hann is a nice nice detachment for vypers.

The Nova Lance Autarch took out over 400 points of ork characters.
Only 1 wave serpent and no Dark Reapers. Took a lot of Hawks and Guardians and my first Shining spear unit.

Close on VPs but he was down to 4 grots after 4 turns. I think I had 18 and he had 17 points (ITC scenario)

4 Warp Boyz is just evil and he had a pair of Forgeworld burner units...those were very ugly.....I rolled horrible except for my first phoenix lord Experience. Baharoth had 2 wounds left and I decided to use my last cp to reroll his save. From then on he made all his saves and made the final tank kill to give me the VPs to win the match.

Alaitock and Vectored Engines or FlickerJump+Alaitoc and of course the stratagem Lightning Fast Reflexes are just too much for orks to handle with shooting.

Shining Spears did their duty and died 1st turn. The Vypers and War Walkers never even got targeted. If they did not miss so horribly mid game it could have gone better. They finished off 2 of his last 3 pieces on turn 3.

Very fun game but orks don't play nice!!! Grots were the MVPs!!!!

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

Going to a 1500 point event today. Trying to see how the Avatar will fare post codex release.
[Thumb - 20171215_191144.jpg]
1500 Craftworld Army


No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

I wouldn't get my hopes up. He costs far too much, does far too little, cannot be supported by anything in his own army, and is so slow that he'll never get a chance to do anything meaningful anyway.


...I'll be unveiling mine today as well...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/16 11:46:14


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Why do you have guardians without weapon platforms that's baaaad

~500pts Asuryani painted new colour scheme
~7500pts Asuryani assembled some with old colour scheme
 
   
 
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