Drukhari 8th Codex Tactics - see 9th for new tactics

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**Souleater**

Thank you.

**Creeping Dementia**

Souleater wrote:
Hey, folks. Getting back into 40k.

I was looking at things like the PGL and other LD modifying things. My main opponent plays Space Wolves...I was wondering if I can use those tools to chip extra casualties off of his units.

I agree that the leadership thing by itself isn't all that useful, unless you go all in with Coven stuff, but it's a pretty big commitment and doesn't always work.
What I have found useful is using the PGL in conjunction with Harlequin Hallucinagen grenade launcher, allows the Shadowseers to really crank out mortal wounds. And just packing a couple PGLs really isn't too much of a point investment.

**Dashofpepper**

Who's the local Dark Eldar / Drukhari lord and master these days? I need to see about getting back into the swing of things.

**Creeping Dementia**

Dashofpepper wrote:
Who's the local Dark Eldar / Drukhari lord and master these days? I need to see about getting back into the swing of things.

Local? I have no idea where you live so hard to say. Not really sure what you are looking for...

I'd start by getting the rulebook and codex. Then read all the posts here in this thread, most of the generally accepted dos and donts of this edition codex have been hashed out pretty good.

Beyond that if you're looking for new and innovative you are going to have to experiment. In the major events there are always the majority of lists, which fall in line with the common meta theories (currently often Knights with Guard and some marine HQs), then there are the outlier lists. The outliers are things that no one thought to bring to a major event, sometimes they are wildly successful, usually they fall flat. But coming up with those are not going to developed online. You can find the common theories by reading for 30 minutes on forums.

Edit* do you mean who is the grand authority on all things Dark Eldar? Like competitively? I don't think there is one. Most of the really good tournament players I know don't actually post on forums, especially their lists. They use them to see what the 'sheep' are taking these days so they can take counter-meta lists, but otherwise they rely on independent ideas. Those ideas then filter down to the forums after they perform well at a couple events, and the cycle starts over again. Online forum popularity and actual tabletop results don't often go hand-in-hand.

**Salt donkey**

Creeping Dementia wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:
Who's the local Dark Eldar / Drukhari lord and master these days? I need to see about getting back into the swing of things.

Local? I have no idea where you live so hard to say. Not really sure what you are looking for...

I'd start by getting the rulebook and codex. Then read all the posts here in this thread, most of the generally accepted dos and donts of this edition codex have been hashed out pretty good.

Beyond that if you're looking for new and innovative you are going to have to experiment. In the major events there are always the majority of lists, which fall in line with the common meta theories (currently often Knights with Guard and some marine HQs), then there are the outlier lists. The outliers are things that no one thought to bring to a major event, sometimes they are wildly successful, usually they fall flat. But coming up with those are not going to developed online. You can find the common theories by reading for 30 minutes on forums.

Edit* do you mean who is the grand authority on all things Dark Eldar? Like competitively? I don't think there is one. Most of the really good tournament players I know don't actually post on forums, especially their lists. They use them to see what the 'sheep' are taking these days so they can take counter-meta lists, but otherwise they rely on independent ideas. Those ideas then filter down to the forums after they perform well at a couple events, and the cycle starts over again. Online forum popularity and actual tabletop results don't often go hand-in-hand.

Skaredcast YouTube is pretty good. He has won a few major Canadian tournaments and gives good advice.

**vipoid**

Dashofpepper wrote:
Who's the local Dark Eldar / Drukhari lord and master these days?

You mean Vect?

**necron99**

so...long time guard player and necron player looking to mix things up a bit by playing DE. Not interested in playing a uber competitive one trick list - more like a TAC list to get used to the shenanigans. Any suggestions for a 2k list? Other than take troops, transports, a flyer and a few named characters

**Creeping Dementia**

necron99 wrote:
so...long time guard player and necron player looking to mix things up a bit by playing DE. Not interested in playing a uber competitive one trick list - more like a TAC list to get used to the shenanigans. Any suggestions for a 2k list? Other than take troops, transports, a flyer and a few named characters

Well our named characters arent all that great, so that makes it a little easier.

There are a few different flavors, so first you have to decide what style or styles you want to run. All are reasonably viable.

Coven are the tough beatsticks. Grotesques and Talos being the best. Bump their invuln up with your Coven trait and their toughness up by keeping your haemonculus nearby and it's extremely tough.

Wych Cults are fast. Reavers are very quick, can tie up units on turn 1. Wyches aren't super killy, but good at tying up and not letting the enemy fall back. Succubus are solid HQs, and pretty cheap.

Kabals are best for laying down splinter and darklight fire, probably best damage output.

Then you can flavor any of the above factions with unaligned units, but really Scourges are probably the only ones worth taking.
Venoms might be the best light vehicle in the game, always worth taking some.

Most people running pure Dark Eldar list usually run 2 DE factions in list. Fitting all 3 in is sort of difficult. I usually run primarily Cult with some Kabal.

So what sort of style do you want the list to have?

*Edit, here's one list I like just for example, not hyper competitive, but it's fun and can do very well. I personally don't use Ravagers or fliers.

Spoiler:

With the copious amounts of Knights that have been around lately, my more competitive lists are now either Harlequin/Kabal or Harlequin/WychCult with the former being slightly better. The more Haywire the better.

**luke1705**

vipoid wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:
Who's the local Dark Eldar / Drukhari lord and master these days?

You mean Vect?

He’s called OrdoSean in these parts

**StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds**

Have people been having any success with Lelith?
She's probably my favorite unit in the game currently, but I don't play in a very competitive meta.

**godswildcard**

Hiya Dark Eldar dudes and dudettes!

I've recently started to consolidate my many small and medium-sized armies into one big Dark Eldar army. It's amazing to me, as this won't be the first DE army I've had, but I always forget how good these models look in person. I do have a few questions for you more experienced Archons out there.

1) Obsidian Rose seems pretty solid for Venoms and Warriors, and in my head that would be a good starting point for a Kabal as it would give me an extra 6" in which to deal with infantry. How have people found this actually works in person?

2) I also feel like massed splinter fire would be great for dealing with tough infantry like Custodes. Is this how people crack those particular nuts?

3) for competitive games where allying in Eldar or Quins is a good plan: what Craftworld (fluff-wise) harbors closer ties with Dark Eldar? When allying in Eldar, are Rangers the troops of choice that people go with to fulfill slots?

4) what kind of force org are people running? I'd love to run 6 Drukhari detachments, but I also realize that most tournaments cap at 3. What are people doing for their detachments and command points at big tournaments?

5) (edit) How are you equipping your Sybarites? I need mine to have either a power sword or agoniser, but what else should I go with?

**Creeping Dementia**

godswildcard wrote:
Hiya Dark Eldar dudes and dudettes!

I've recently started to consolidate my many small and medium-sized armies into one big Dark Eldar army. It's amazing to me, as this won't be the first DE army I've had, but I always forget how good these models look in person. I do have a few questions for you more experienced Archons out there.

1) Obsidian Rose seems pretty solid for Venoms and Warriors, and in my head that would be a good starting point for a Kabal as it would give me an extra 6" in which to deal with infantry. How have people found this actually works in person?

2) I also feel like massed splinter fire would be great for dealing with tough infantry like Custodes. Is this how people crack those particular nuts?

3) for competitive games where allying in Eldar or Quins is a good plan: what Craftworld (fluff-wise) harbors closer ties with Dark Eldar? When allying in Eldar, are Rangers the troops of choice that people go with to fulfill slots?

4) what kind of force org are people running? I'd love to run 6 Drukhari detachments, but I also realize that most tournaments cap at 3. What are people doing for their detachments and command points at big tournaments?

5) (edit) How are you equipping your Sybarites? I need mine to have either a power sword or agoniser, but what else should I go with?

1: I prefer Flayed skull, or Poison tongue. Range often isn't an issue, but speed or killing power can be

2: Massed splinter fire is pretty decent. Weight of attacks in general is how DE get stuff done.

3: My competitive preference is Harlequins with Dark Eldar, either Kabal or Cult, with a big combo of Skyweavers and Scourges with Haywire to make Castellans disappear.
I've allied Harlequins and Craftworld, haven't done Craftworld and dark Eldar yet. Usually a battalion with Rangers and a farseer and a couple warlocks.

4: At least 2 Battalions, and maybe an Outrider. It's nearly impossible to run a good Brigade because the Codex is fragmented. But it's easy to start the game with 13 or 14 cp, and it's usually enough unless you are burning through them with Agents of Vect (I don't use it, too expensive).

5: Nothing. Maybe a PGL if I'm trying to get some extra wounds from a Shadowseer HGL

**vipoid**

godswildcard wrote:

1) Obsidian Rose seems pretty solid for Venoms and Warriors, and in my head that would be a good starting point for a Kabal as it would give me an extra 6" in which to deal with infantry. How have people found this actually works in person?

I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard it's pretty good.

godswildcard wrote:

2) I also feel like massed splinter fire would be great for dealing with tough infantry like Custodes. Is this how people crack those particular nuts?

Well, Disintegrators would probably be my first pick.

3 Lhamaeans with a (preferably non-Warlord) Archon can also do some serious work against elite infantry, though they're probably better with Poison Tongue.

Maybe Mandrakes.

Splinter fire is okay, but I rarely find it reliable. It's probably best with Flayed Skull - since you get to ignore any cover bonuses (which is really helpful against elite units with 3+ saves).

godswildcard wrote:

3) for competitive games where allying in Eldar or Quins is a good plan: what Craftworld (fluff-wise) harbors closer ties with Dark Eldar? When allying in Eldar, are Rangers the troops of choice that people go with to fulfill slots?

I'm going to skip this one as I don't use allies and have no knowledge or interest in Eldar fluff.

godswildcard wrote:

4) what kind of force org are people running? I'd love to run 6 Drukhari detachments, but I also realize that most tournaments cap at 3. What are people doing for their detachments and command points at big tournaments?

I don't generally play in tournaments but at 1500pts I'll usually use a Battalion of Kabal and then an Outrider or Vanguard or Cult or Coven. Sometimes, though, I'll just use a single Battalion.

godswildcard wrote:

5) (edit) How are you equipping your Sybarites? I need mine to have either a power sword or agoniser, but what else should I go with?

Nothing. Power swords are absolute garbage and Agonisers aren't far behind. Blast Pistols cost more than Inferno Pistols in spite of being outright worse. The only upgrade I'd ever consider is the Phantasm Grenade Launcher (mainly just to use otherwise unspent points), but then I'd probably take it on an Archon rather than a Sybarite.

**Hades**

Craftworld Il-Kaithe meaning "Knowledge of Blood" known for being close to the Eye of Terror and constantly fighting chaos while having close ties with Dark Eldar allies. They're a lesser craftworld so your free to pick your trait. As someone who allies with craftworld I reccomend Ulthwe as everything that works for me personally, guardians pyskers wraithguard/blades and bikes wants to be close to the enemy negating Alaitoc's benefit. Its also nice to just have an always on 6+++ FNP to both sides to keep it simple

**Creeping Dementia**

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
Have people been having any success with Lelith?
She's probably my favorite unit in the game currently, but I don't play in a very competitive meta.

I like her, only issue is I usually use Red Grief. So she only makes it into my lists if I'm taking 2 Cult Battalions. If you can get her in combat with a Character she can be very effective .

**Dashofpepper**

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts about Ynarri armies.

**Amishprn86**

Dashofpepper wrote:
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts about Ynarri armies.

Ynnari is extremely powerful, but pure DE Ynnari is not. Ynnari is much better with Quins and CWE, Wyches can be good with ynnari, but they take away from Quins and CWE. Quins and CWE have specialist non-vehicle units, that means they do their job and they do it extremely well, when they can move, shoot, melee twice, its just stupidly good. DE are dont really have much high damage specialist units that are not vehicles, and the ones that DE does have can not be Ynnari (there is a list that isnt allowed to be Ynnari).

ATM the best general units for Ynnari are:
Shiny Spears
Skyweavers
Guardians
Dark Reapers

Secondary good units are:
Troupes
Wyches
Banshees
Fire Dragons

There are a few more you could add, but once you learn their rules and how they play you can find out those units.

In general, a Ynnari list will make a list of 3 units that can fully use the Double move, Double shoot, Double melee, you will normally have back up units for those as well in case you need a different type of melee or shooting, aka, Anti-tank (Skyweavers) or anti-infantry (Guardians), or a general good unit like Shiny Spears that can do both, but you need to pick 1.
Note: Shiny Spears can Shoot twice and even Fire and Fade for a free 7" movement, or Fire then Melee twice, or shoot twice then melee once

A general Ynnari list will have

CWE HQ's with Shiny spears and Guardians DSing blob of 20
Quins Skyweavers 3 units (1x6, 2x2) and a Shadowseer
DE with Kabal Black heart non-ynnari for 3 Ravagers and a flyer or 2 with 3 kabals for CP

But this might change when CA comes out, we will have to see if Knights are still a problem if they are not them Skyweavers might not be a good pick anymore (Unless its vehicle spam b.c of SoB)

**TheFleshIsWeak**

Has anyone had success with the Soul Seeker relic?

I really want to use it for fluff reasons, but it just never seems to work for me. I don't know whether I'm unlucky or whether it's just a bad weapon.

If anyone has done well with it, I'd appreciate any tips you can give me.

**McMagnus Mindbullets**

I am being drawn towards DE for my next army I think. Learning how to play, and how to game competitively would be very beneficial to me rn. (My current tactic is put my army in a deathball in the center then roflstomp everything because custodes

). Dark eldar are a much more delicate, yes? After having a browse, and going up against DE, I know that ravagers+venoms+kabalites are pretty damn good. I think what I would be going for initially is a 1000 point force for use in a doubles tourney. Suggestions on how to get started with a comp. list? Any price savers? Any list ideas? From what I've seen for 1000 pts a battalion of multiple ravagers + kabalites in venoms is probably strongest atm.

Thanks for any help

**Amishprn86**

A very easy and simple but yet still competitive starting army for 1k.

Archon x2
Kabal pack x2 (15 kabals, they come in 10mans, this will give you 15 basic and 5 more for weapon options).
3 Ravagers
1 Razorwing Jetfight (RWJF for short)

This will be 950pts, so you have a few points for either Dl's or Blasters added (note this is with current points and with all Disintegrator Cannons).

Everything were is hyper comp, and you can play it as either Battalion, Black Heart or Flawed Skull very effectively.

NOTE: Ravagers, Venoms, Raiders, all come with 2-3 Extra Riders, if you dont need like them on the vehicles and dont need Special weapons and you just want basic Kabals, OR if you want to convert an Archon, use the Riders instead of using them on the vehicles. They are in different Poses too, they are great to use as extra Kabals.

Buying 3 Ravagers will give you a full extra unit of Kabals, the 3 Venoms will also give you a extra unit of Kabals as well, But you wont have special weapons. SO you still want 1-2 Boxes of Kabals for sure.

With all those kits (2 Archons, 2 Kabals, 3 Venoms, 3 Ravagers, 1 Flyer) it will be after discount something like 300$

Thats actually really good, 300$ for 1k points. But coven.. thats costly, so dont start out with coven, coven also might get a nerf soon too, so another reason to not start with those.

But if you like Coven, for sure Haemonculus, Talos, grotesques.

**McMagnus Mindbullets**

I have written an initial list that is 1k pts:

Flayed skull bat.
Archon 76
Archon 76
2x5 kabs w/blaster 47x2 94
6 kabs w/blaster 53
Raider w/ dark Lance 85
2x venom w/ 2 splinter cannons 75x2 150

Black heart spearhead
Archon w/ labyrinthine cunning and writ of the living muse 76
3x ravager w/dark Lance + 2 dissie 130x3 390

1000 pts exactly

What do you think? It's not going to be cheap to buy by any means, but in theory it's a meannnn list.

Do you think my kabal obsessions are right? Do you think the warlord archon not in a transport will be ok? (I was thinking of having him hide behind the ravagers in a castle until they need to go elsewhere but then he's out in the open, is that a good idea?) And finally, any top tips on how to play deldar?

**Amishprn86**

Yeah looks fine

**Alessios96**

Hi guys, i'm probably going to start a DE army, i read some informations on the forum about them, but i wanted to ask you what do you think about the lot that im willing to buy and if it's worth the investment:

Succubus
Archon x2
Urien
Lelith
Haemoncolus x2
Kabalite warriors x2
Hellions x2
Reavers x2
Talos x2
Raider x2
Wyches
Razorwing
Incubi x2
Ravager x2

Thanks in advance.

**Creeping Dementia**

The main stuff that might not be too useful are the Incubi and Hellions. The Incubi don't really have a job to fill, and the Hellions are just a little too fragile and/or expensive get the job done.
So it depends on what kind of deal you are getting. You'll need some Venoms at some point too.

**Alessios96**

Venoms are one of the best units DE have right?

The fact im not still used to is that there are 3 subfactions and that i cant play them together.
With units im gonna have, what should i play?

**flamingkillamajig**

Alessios96 wrote:
Hi guys, i'm probably going to start a DE army, i read some informations on the forum about them, but i wanted to ask you what do you think about the lot that im willing to buy and if it's worth the investment:

Succubus
Archon x2
Urien
Lelith
Haemoncolus x2
Kabalite warriors x2
Hellions x2
Reavers x2
Talos x2
Raider x2
Wyches
Razorwing
Incubi x2
Ravager x2

Thanks in advance.

Reavers are only really good as a screen to stop other units shooting for a little bit (provided you charge enough of them), as objective takers or overwatch shields for other units. Last game they helped me not get shot up by a leviathan dreadnought for a whole shooting phase at the cost of the unit but it still helped. Wyches are ok if you have something take overwatch for them i'd imagine but this is just a theory for me. Be wary that most of our melee infantry are meant to only fight other infantry and wyches need something to take overwatch for them to survive. Talos are supposed to be good. The planes we have seem nice enough. People like ravagers but like anything else in our army you should probably wait to DS it turn 2 provided you're not above your DS limit. I don't think i'm as in love with these as some of the other players. Personally i think archons with blasters in a venom and small anti-tank scourge squads do so much more. Hellions suck but that's because they do 2 damage with no AP they're super fragile and could only probably be good against knights. If you face knights a lot they might be good but you'd have to bring em in through webway portal and take cursed blade cult probably. Urien should work well if you take covens units. Prophets of flesh is the coven most people take anyway because 4+ inv. save is amazing. It's a shame wracks only do one damage with their poisoned weapons because 20 or so of em with the -1 AP coven might be fairly nice if they did more damage. Warriors and trueborn are great. I give my trueborn shredders and last game i cut down a ton of plague marines with them. The re-rollable wound vs infantry with str 6 is really nice. Blasters are also nice enough. Incubi suck and you should always use Grotesques instead. Grotesques can shrug off damage like nobody's business even though i only have 4 and even move them up the board.

I still think 8th is "first-turn hammer" or at least for dark eldar. I think it's because of how fragile we are. That said going heavy covens would probably be exempt.

----------

This probably won't get noticed but are archons with blasters in a venom a good idea when my scourge and trueborn all have their special weapons accounted for? I find archons with blasters are accurate even with negative modifiers. I probably would only put 2 per venom and while expensive the extra BS seems really nice. Should i go with something else instead like my 2 void ravens or try putting warriors with blasters into raiders?

**cmspano**

Creeping Dementia wrote:
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
Have people been having any success with Lelith?
She's probably my favorite unit in the game currently, but I don't play in a very competitive meta.

I like her, only issue is I usually use Red Grief. So she only makes it into my lists if I'm taking 2 Cult Battalions. If you can get her in combat with a Character she can be very effective .

I'm running Red Grief for my main wych force but I'm thinking about bringing a patrol of Strife or Cursed Blade. Probably Cursed Blade. 5 model wych units with nets in the main Red Grief battalion in venoms along with bikers. I've found 5 man wych units with nets to be great at tying up units that aren't strong in melee, or charging vehicles even if you can't tie them up with nets.

The Patrol will have a 20 model wych unit in the webway to come in on turn 2(they'll already have reroll charges from PFP, no benefit from webway striking RG ones). 20 S4 base wyches with +1 S or A drug getting a 4++ in melee and only losing 1 to morale should be good. The Patrol Succubus will ride in one of the RG venoms.

**Azuza001**

Ravagers are terrific, for 125 pts they are dangerous enough that they need to be shot at and cheap enough that if you lose them you dont care. Same with talos with the proper support. I use them as distraction carnifexes to great results.

**vipoid**

A couple of questions, guys:

Firstly, any advice for facing Knights with pure DE (no Eldar/Harlequin allies)?

I faced a knight list recently with 2 large knights, 4 (IIRC) of the smaller knights and a few guardsmen. It just seemed like I was completely outclassed on every front. They easily outgunned me, they're a hell of a lot more durable, and even melee seems virtually useless with most units due to their catastrophic Overwatch. I didn't even feel like I had a speed advantage, given that his smaller knights are as fast as Raiders but vastly more durable. And this is on top of all my poison weapons being basically worthless against everything but the guardsmen.

Any suggestions for fighting them?

Secondly, not really related to tactics but I recently came across a conversion that I'd all but forgotten about:

Spoiler:

Any thoughts on how to best to represent this model as an HQs?

**Blackie**

vipoid wrote:
A couple of questions, guys:

Firstly, any advice for facing Knights with pure DE (no Eldar/Harlequin allies)?

I faced a knight list recently with 2 large knights, 4 (IIRC) of the smaller knights and a few guardsmen. It just seemed like I was completely outclassed on every front. They easily outgunned me, they're a hell of a lot more durable, and even melee seems virtually useless with most units due to their catastrophic Overwatch. I didn't even feel like I had a speed advantage, given that his smaller knights are as fast as Raiders but vastly more durable. And this is on top of all my poison weapons being basically worthless against everything but the guardsmen.

Any suggestions for fighting them?

Secondly, not really related to tactics but I recently came across a conversion that I'd all but forgotten about:

Spoiler:

Any thoughts on how to best to represent this model as an HQs?

I had the same trouble facing knights, even tailoring the list taking out all the poison and maximizing the anti tank. I think we cannot absolute compete against them unless we field 3 ravagers and 3 flyers as the core of the army, but also the rest of the army should be basically anti tank oriented, maybe 3x scourges can also help.

The HQ is a nice conversion, I'd play it as an Archon with Huskblade.