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Yea, but watch they become an elite choice in a new Inquisition codex that combines the Witch Hunters and Daemon hunters... and increased in price to make Storm Troopers worth taking.

Take a deep breath Wehr...
Fevered dreams are not reality, fevered dreams are not reality, fevered dreams are not reality... sigh... ok better now...

Posted By Wehrkind on 11/04/2007 8:08 AM

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 11/03/2007 11:27 PM

Posted By Asmodai on 11/03/2007 12:34 PM

I think Guard players are too busy screaming about the cost of Battle Sisters vs. Stormtroopers.

Well, if it makes you feel any better at least Stormtroopers will still be around in 5th edition.

Bite your tounge! If they take out Sisters, I am showing up at their door with ~35 pounds of metal minis in a sock, and beating them with it until a new Codex comes out... or money. I would also be willing to hit them till money comes out.

What about candy?  Would you accept candy?

Posted By ShumaGorath on 11/04/2007 2:28 PM

Posted By Wehrkind on 11/04/2007 8:08 AM

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 11/03/2007 11:27 PM

Posted By Asmodai on 11/03/2007 12:34 PM

I think Guard players are too busy screaming about the cost of Battle Sisters vs. Stormtroopers.

Well, if it makes you feel any better at least Stormtroopers will still be around in 5th edition.

Bite your tounge! If they take out Sisters, I am showing up at their door with ~35 pounds of metal minis in a sock, and beating them with it until a new Codex comes out... or money. I would also be willing to hit them till money comes out.

What about candy?  Would you accept candy?

Only if he were somehow able to exude some 2-3 metric tonnes of Nerds, Gobstoppers, spice jelly beans, and possibly those Sweet Tart Jellybeans. My combined love for those 4 candies and impossible volume humor might make me forget the burning rage coursing through my veins. Until I develope diabetes and have to eat Quaker oatmeal for the rest of my life, shouting "diabetus!" every morning before I hit my wife, who had been dead for 7 years.

Edit: Alternately, he could scream "My anus is bleeding!" for like 3 minutes while he drowns in his own blood. That has produced positive effects on my psyche in the past.

Posted By yakface on 11/04/2007 11:44 AM

No existing armies that have a codex will be removed, that is GW's mantra now so I don't think you need to worry about the sisters going anywhere.

Tell that to the squats.

Posted By Shadow_Strike on 11/04/2007 5:27 PM

Posted By yakface on 11/04/2007 11:44 AM

No existing armies that have a codex will be removed, that is GW's mantra now so I don't think you need to worry about the sisters going anywhere.

Tell that to the squats.

Why? That wasn't GW's mantra before. GW used to create new armies willy-nilly without thinking about the ramifications about having to support those armies in the future. They never said before "all your current armies will remain valid forever".

They've changed that concept now and have publicly stated it. While it means we won't be seeing any more sub-armies like Feral Orks or Kroot Mercs (unless they graduate to full codex status) it also means we won't ever be losing any armies that currently have a codex.

 

Ah, din't see the word "now". Its a shame, Kroot Mercs and the Ferals were pretty fun rules and I'd like to have seen more.

Posted By yakface on 11/04/2007 11:44 AM

No existing armies that have a codex will be removed, that is GW's mantra now so I don't think you need to worry about the sisters going anywhere.

Not that GW's known for clever business practices, but c'mon Yak, be honest, if Sisters suddenly stopped selling yesterday, and no one wanted them, GW would drop them faster than they did the rules for Bloodthirsters.

BYE

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 11/04/2007 8:01 PM

Posted By yakface on 11/04/2007 11:44 AM

No existing armies that have a codex will be removed, that is GW's mantra now so I don't think you need to worry about the sisters going anywhere.

Not that GW's known for clever business practices, but c'mon Yak, be honest, if Sisters suddenly stopped selling yesterday, and no one wanted them, GW would drop them faster than they did the rules for Bloodthirsters.

BYE

what are these bloodthirster things you keep mentioning?  there is no such a monster.. 

 

(edit for punctuation)

Posted By yakface on 11/04/2007 6:47 PM

Posted By Shadow_Strike on 11/04/2007 5:27 PM

Posted By yakface on 11/04/2007 11:44 AM

No existing armies that have a codex will be removed, that is GW's mantra now so I don't think you need to worry about the sisters going anywhere.

Tell that to the squats.

Why? That wasn't GW's mantra before. GW used to create new armies willy-nilly without thinking about the ramifications about having to support those armies in the future. They never said before "all your current armies will remain valid forever".

They've changed that concept now and have publicly stated it. While it means we won't be seeing any more sub-armies like Feral Orks or Kroot Mercs (unless they graduate to full codex status) it also means we won't ever be losing any armies that currently have a codex.

The =][= codices were released before this policy was adopted.  Andy Chambers had to fight tooth and nail to get a Sisters codex green-lighted by the bean-counters and was only able to do so because he pitched it as part of an =][= Trilogy - and this was back when he was Overfiend.  I doubt anyone in the studio has that kind of pull anymore.  And the post-Chambers release schedule certainly seems to support this - looking at Codex: Black Templars, the upcoming Codex: Ruinous Powers, and the complete lack of even token support for LatD it's not unreasonable to conclude that the studio no longer has any say in what gets released.

So while Jervis may honestly believe all the promises he makes, he's really not in any position to ensure they are kept.  I'm sure management is perfectly happy to feed him all kinds of assurances so that he can come to us and feed us platitudes.  Words are cheap and it costs them absolutely nothing to tell players, "don't worry - your armies will always be supported, so buy with confidence!"  They may even fully intend to keep the promises they make now, but what about a few years down the road?  GW has certainly reversed course and broken promises several times in the past, and if you believe they will never do it again, well... a wise man once said: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you.  Fool me... ya can't get fooled again!"

To say they have no pull is to ignore the fact that Apoc was released. Talking about a gamble that it sounds like it was hard fought for...

Posted By Toreador on 11/05/2007 9:26 AM
To say they have no pull is to ignore the fact that Apoc was released. Talking about a gamble that it sounds like it was hard fought for...

Um....go back to econ 101.

Let's see, we want to get a sure thing for christmas, and we are GW.  Do we:

A) Release a codex that 10% of the gamers care about.  (Alienhunters)
B) Re-Release a codex that 50% of everyone plays.  (Space Marines)
C) Release a game supplement that forces everyone to have mega huge armies to play, and bring out a gigantic kit that can be used with just about every race to kick it off!

The answer is quite obvious.  Apocalypse as itself is a practically ZERO risk product.  The actual rules, how much "developement" do you think it really took to take all the strategems out of CoD, and then add 10,000 pts?  The premise of the game is brilliant!  PLAY HUGE GAMES OF WARHAMMER WITH YOUR FRIENDS = buy alot of stuff so you CAN play huge battles of warhammer with your friends.  I mean hell, who hasn't played a regular megabattle with your friends.  It's not like this is a new idea!  But now, they totally broke the bank on it!

Freakin' ingenious!

yeah, I wouldn't consider Apoc to be a high risk gamble. The margins on the books, templates and dice alone have to be killer, and the ability to offer package deals on ultra high margin plastic kits is a huge bonus. Add in the fact that most gamers like big games, and that Vets felt burned on a couple of the previous releases, and it was a pretty surefire thing.

Even when they released Witchhunters, they got, what, a dozen or two new metal sculpts and a single plastic sprue? Not exactly a huge release. The only new sisters were a few special weapons, cannonesses, and the repentia.

Everybody brings squats up in every discussion, but that was a particular case that occured almost a decade ago, and they hadn't gotten a new model in the what, five years before that?

Well, there were a few new VSSes (on foot and jump-packing) as well, but that's about it.

Posted By Polonius on 11/05/2007 10:06 AM


Everybody brings squats up in every discussion, but that was a particular case that occured almost a decade ago, and they hadn't gotten a new model in the what, five years before that?

     What really ticked a lot of the Squat players around here off was not only having a big investment of time and money wasted, but GW's non explanation of why their armies were suddenly thrown out of the game.   From what I read on the forums back then, Fat Bloke's answer to Squat players who asked what was happening to their army was  to "get their priorities straight".  This answer was also published in a White Dwarf interview, IIRC..  I never played them, but  the way in which Squats were invalidated has to have been one  of the biggest bad will generating moves GW has done in the view of a lot of people. 
  I think that's why you'll always hear about Squats.

Actually, being a squat player with large 40k and Epic squat forces, I remember it well. The problem was that they kept it alive for a bit. It went like this.

New edition came out, and they stated they didn't like how the squat were themed. The whole fat biker t-shirt thing didn't really work, so they wanted something different. Over the years they came out with little bits and rumours on squats, but they were basically dead. A miniature painting guide they published in the 90's even had some of the more norse inspired squat test models. They just couldn't find a good theme that all of them agreed upon, that wasn't like something already out. No one really seemed to be interested in it after so much time, and it became quite a dead subject. They started replying that the army was dead, and there would never be squats.

Then came the mention of the demi-urge, which were a nod to the squats. Thus it is perpetuated, and all the hard core squat players still have some odd hope of a return.

That's true, now that you mention it. I remember the Norse Squats well. Just to check myself, I'll have to go through my old WD collection, and read that interview with Fat Bloke where he was asked about the Squats. I remember for sure his " priorities" answer pissed a lot of people here off.

I had a squat army. They were in codex imperialis and the get you by army lists for second edition, and I loved the background for them, so I chugged away in ignorance (I didn't have White Dwarf or the Intartubes to inform me that this was a hopeless endevour), ordering squats from suprised mail order trolls with my hard earned punts. Then I eventually cottoned on that there was never going to be a Squat codex despite promises to the contrary from promotional material. I was a bit shocked that they could mislead customers like that, but I just ran my army using the rules available and had fun with them. Eventually, 3rd edition came out and I switched to Orks.
That was my first taste of GWs unique brand of customer service and communication. Since then the bitterness has only gotten worse. But hey, at least this new codex has me very happy, even if it did take an unreasonably long amount of time to get released.

to talk about something else but sqauts. just saw the backside of the new 'Dex. can ANYONE tell me, why Orks as only army till now in 4th editon don't get a new Plastic HQ. Terminator Lord, Space marine Chief, new Tau Suit with metal bitz, new metal farseers and 3 autarchs....

where the squig is my plastic warboss??? argh.....

...
We also don't have a kit for our mainline tanks, and currently only one of our named characters has a kit. The warboss is the least of our worries- at least we have a model for him!

Why don't you ask a question we can answer, like "Where the plastic warboss is my squig?" (Answer: Sitting on your metal Warboss, giving him one more normal CCW attack at the cost of a whole Space Marine. . . .)

Heh. I like what they did with that actually- they've had that "squig on a leash" model for ages and you couldn't actually equip a boss that way, so now they make it a bit more likely that people will buy it.

Would a plastic warboss be any good? I mean the plastic FB version is the suck 'cause they made it compatable with the plastic ork kits out there so what you got was something that was not big enough to even call a big boss. A plastic SM character is roughly the same size as a regular SM (or terminator for you spiky boyz), but a Ork warboss needs to be friggin' 'UGE!
what I'd rather see is another metal Warboss with some options like the eldar autarchs. Give us a selection of heads, arms, armour and bannas and we can mix and match for a god deal of variety. A plastic kit would make our Warboss weedy like the new plastic nob that comes with the ork boyz box. Not that they would have to go small for a plastic Warboss, but I bet this is why they haven't done one yet.


Dosadi

I'd quite like to see all potential wargear options represented. It wouldn't be too hard to do, now that options are fairly limited.

I think it should be done, but given GWs embarassing track record with Ork models, I'm not actually expecting it.

I want a Warboss on a bike, meself!

As would I. The warboss needs a ridiculous bike. And I do not want to have to make do with Wazzdakka's model, should he actually get one this edition. And a non Ghaz mega armoured boss would be nice.

Posted By Da Boss on 11/05/2007 6:34 PM
As would I. The warboss needs a ridiculous bike. And I do not want to have to make do with Wazzdakka's model, should he actually get one this edition. And a non Ghaz mega armoured boss would be nice.

Oh, I think after applying a little creativity to the Boss model and kitting together a Buggy and a Wartrakk, with a little bit of green stuff you can mash together a decent Warboss on Bike....

Wow, that is a brilliant looking model! Kudos!
In a similar vein, I want to convert a rhino chasis into a mobile snotling/squig pen with a big mek standing on top with a shokk attack gun as a looted boomwagon.

Nice Boss, Voodoo. I think I'll take a similar direction for mine.

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 11/05/2007 8:47 AM

So while Jervis may honestly believe all the promises he makes, he's really not in any position to ensure they are kept.  I'm sure management is perfectly happy to feed him all kinds of assurances so that he can come to us and feed us platitudes.  Words are cheap and it costs them absolutely nothing to tell players, "don't worry - your armies will always be supported, so buy with confidence!"  They may even fully intend to keep the promises they make now, but what about a few years down the road?  GW has certainly reversed course and broken promises several times in the past, and if you believe they will never do it again, well... a wise man once said: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you.  Fool me... ya can't get fooled again!"

Actually, Jervis is in the exact position to ensure this. That is his job.

And GW has never had someone in charge of the design teams that has said: We will not drop any current armies ever. We will revisit all armies on a roughly five year cycle and we will not be coming out with new army types unless we are absolutely certain that we want to support them indefinitely.

All that is new and I see no reason not to believe that is the direction they are headed.

 

Sounds like i need to ditch the idea of a tankbusta squad, change the idea of buying more big gunz, maybe buy more stormboyz, continue on my loota squad, and get more trukks and a battlewagon. And keep grotsnik.