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Lord-Loss wrote:Cadbren@So if people vote and there wrong (In your opinion) there opinions dont count?

Well if the Imperium was winning (on the poll) you Imperial people would be saying thats correct.

There has been another thread about this at like 6-pages. No-one will agree so we just have to use the poll to show us the answer now can this thread die now, please?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it hardly seems reasonable to support incorrect ones, no matter how many supporters they have. Polls are an idea of where the masses are going with their thinking, they're not democracies where people have to accept the opinion of the masses, nor are they an indicator of who is right or wrong.

As for the other, people are constantly joining the site and so the same questions and debates are going to happen, get over it.

The problem is when a or dies it releases spores, which turn into more orks. Which is bad.

I'm sorry but the Imperium wouldn't stand a chance against a hunited orc attack, the entire speacis with noting to do but kill 'umies? We'd be dead SOOO fast. Orcs out number a the human population douzens of times over, they are all as tuff as nails where as humans have women and children and week ass men like me. every orc you kill will corse many more orcs to grow at a very fast rate, where as humans you would have to waight at least 18 years for replacements, even longer in the case of decent space mariens. When human tech is destroyed its hard to replace, where as the orcs just stik it back together with snotlings and spit.

Genraly we would be doomed, white dwarfs and other books have always said, if the orcs wernt fighting each other then they could take over the galaxy, not jsut the imperium, everything. All the orcs verses all the over major races, orcs would still kill most of them.

As most people have said and i aggre with them for the fact that if Orcs united they would defeat the imperuim.
Thankfully Most Orks are not that bright and just want to fight that the imperuim has survived to this day and well if Orks attacked lets face it whats much any race could do except kill some and gt overwhelmed and get killed!
But the defence systems on the Moon, Mars and Holy Terra are immense so they might stand a chance of defiting some fleits before getting overwhemmled just like on the crimson Fist chapter planet.

But in the end the crimson fists won? (and it was only close becuase of a major tech marine feth up)

Anyway. Fluff says that orks COULD feth up every race if united. But the same fluff also states that such a unification is impossible. It doesn't matter if there are no more 'nids or chaos or necrons, orks will still be killing each other. Imperium on the other hand, would be able to concentrate it's forces in the orks for once. (No longer threatened by other races)

I know that the crimson fists won i was talking about the feilts landing on the part of the planet. =]

About that stuff that said Orks are crap and Guardman can beat them easily. Its Gak, Why?

Taken from Fugrim: "Whoever said the Greenskins were primitve obviously never had to fight them"

"It seems there was no star system throughout the Galaxy that had not been infested by the Greenskins"

" Greenskin warriors were monstious brutes whose strength was nearly equal of an Astartes warrior"

"There central nerve system was so primitive that they took a great deal of punishment before they lay down and stopped fighting"

"A greenskin warrior was not the equal of an Astartes by any means, but they had raw agression to make up for it, and they had numbers on there side"

"Astartes fired volley after volley into the enemy, but no matter how many fell, it only seemed to spur the survives into a frenzy"

...who said that stuff?
Oh, yeah, the 'Uplifting Primer'. If you didn't realise, thaat's propaganda. Did you seriously think it was serious?

Emperors Faithful wrote:...who said that stuff?
Oh, yeah, the 'Uplifting Primer'. If you didn't realise, thaat's propaganda. Did you seriously think it was serious?

But it got him enraged.....


And yes, the IIUP is official.

Imperium, hands down. Orks are to fighty with...well everyone. There would never be a big enough Warboss to unite all of them against the entirety of the Imperium.

Wow I take a few months off and this debate is STILL going on. I see by votes Orks are winning so at least some people on here dont have their heads up their asses.



I re-read the OP to make sure I understood it. And my opinion i STILL thus.




Imperium/Orks.
Yes at first the Imperium WOULD make a dent in the Ork numbers. BUT, heres the magic BUT. Orks are drawn to war. Its how they are made. As soon as word spreads about a new SUPER fight against humies. Orks are going to realize that means the SM will be there. Orks love fighting them more then anything.
As soon as they ALL know its on with just them and the humies, the Imperium is in SERIOUS trouble. They would ALL come together to get a piece of the pie, and would still completely smash the Imperium into bits. They wouls stop before completely destroying them onlybecause Orks love a good fight, and wouldnt want to be the ONLY things left.

I just cant wrap my head around why you Imperial buffs really think you would beat the Orks in a 1 on 1 brawl. Thats what we do!

Orks? Beat the Imperium, you have to be kidding!

NO SPACE TRAVEL
No matter how fierce they might be the best space tech they can manage is to make hulks that travel randomly in space.

Orks are not a space borne race. Any of the space borne races could therefore easily destroy them.

NO ECONOMY OF SCALE
Furthermore on the economy of scale, the Orks control no where near the resources the Imperium alone controls.

NO CENTRALIZED GOVERNMENT
Orks don't have any organization or unifying creed. They will never be able to organize beyond the lifespan of a single warboss or maintain or govern anything they conquer beyond a single oppressive generation.

SUMMARY
Orks are an occasionally spillover accident, in a galactic strategic context, and if it weren't for legitimate extragalactic and extra dimensional threats there wouldn't be any anymore.

They are essentially space Vandals.

You cant say the Imperium is united with a straight face.

Orks as far as I know, do have warp travel. If they dont how did Old Ghazzy get to Armaggedon for the second time with a large force of Orks. If It took too long according to you Imperial Nutjobs they would have disbanded.

KingCracker wrote:

I just cant wrap my head around why you Imperial buffs really think you would beat the Orks in a 1 on 1 brawl. Thats what we do!

I dont see it beiing a brawl. Why should anyone worth his rank field a stategy based on playing to his opponents strength's?

Remeber there not all heroic guys like GW say. In alot of novels there are corrupt Lord commanders and ones that idiotic mistakes to get glory.


The adapts are very different to humans and might do stuff that is morally wrong killing thousands of people in the process to protect some ancient tech.

If Orks want something to work, then it will. The ork tech is always moving forward, while the Imperium tech stays the same.

Lord-Loss wrote:The ork tech is always moving forward, while the Imperium tech stays the same.

Moving forward to...? Anything that can be built with a blow torch and a welder? Circa Earth 1920? What a joke.

...and the Imperium is staying the same.... as in Space Colonization, Warp Travel, Teleporters, Trans-atmospheric Landers, Cloning?

OK, lets be honest here and step back a bit from the 40k universe fictions, which are largely absurd, and consider the orks. They are a fungus race of militant tribal/clan green warriors, that have a tenuous connection to any high tech equipment at all, no social institutions beyond clans, and are essentially a big fearless green horde whose primary weapon is an axe?

Why would any space borne race actually fight them on the ground? They would simply be destroyed with Artillery, Naval and Air power. They are the technological equivalent of Cortez and the Incas.

Honestly they have the most absurd fiction in 40k, their entire premise is the weakest in the game, and their embarrassing armies look like junk yard wars, and play about as well.

Anyone who alters the machines would be put to death. All the tech you mentioned was created before the heresy.


The orks are Major Physices.

Lord-Loss wrote:The orks are Major Physices.

The orks can't even write a proper sentence, a feature shared apparently by many of their advocates. What is Major Physices?

I'm afraid I am not reaching you here with my attempts at clear writing and empirical points. How about this:

Da ORkzes R da bestest bekuz dey gotz da bestest axes and da most green musklez hur and likez da fittin do mosetests and cawz da orky tekz iiz da bestest and da most urty dakka den any udder....

Indeed....

That kind of moronic drivel shows the Ork army to be what it is, a poorly conceived appeal to the juvenile, and uneducated cretins.

Ive always forgot how to right Psyker properly

If the Orks believe that they can cut through power armour they will, look at the "Ork weapons effective?" thread.

Lord-Loss wrote:

If the Orks believe that they can cut through power armour they will, look at the "Ork weapons effective?" thread.

I have to make them believe they are dead, all of them. Case solved.

LOL, I must agree with Augustus though. Ork tech is hardly moving forward. And in space? They're boned.

Augustus wrote:Moving forward to...? Anything that can be built with a blow torch and a welder? Circa Earth 1920? What a joke.

Whtas with all you people saying that orcs are usless and they will ither be 'crushed by the mity imperium' or that they will only win by pur numbers.

1. Orcs a physicly superior to your standard human.
2.There are dozens of times more of them than humans and ALL of them c an fight (where we have children etc).
3.They repoduce at a rate that is many times faster than our own, so they will will replace their numbers faster than we can.
4.Thier technology may apear crude in many forms but yes it it is just as good as the imperioums if not better and it defanutly is advanceing. Orcs are by far better at telaporter technology for one, able to telaport whole arms to the surface where as the imperium can opnly do a few unis at a time. Thier ships apear crude but they are devistaiting, often many times bigger than impear ships. the shilde teck is also far superior to ours, so much so it is safe to wonder around the outside of the ship without sufacating.
5.Idont remember but someone said the dont have good echonemy or production facilitys? They dont need to thier planning on just nicking ours and making slaves out of those who foolishly surender. Also when the imperioum losses a ship it takes lifetimes to build a new one, the orcs jsut have to weld two imperiul ships back together and hay presto they can come kill you again.
6.Someone also said they have no order or disapline so they wouldn't be able to cordinate an attack. They dont need to, thiers jsut so dam many of them that all want a crack at us, all with one unified goal that they jsut need to zerg everything.
7.You cant jsut bomb them all from space becosue thier would be very few habital planits left. And takticly whoever said that shooting from space and just destroying all thier "Week" ships, please read some warhammer 40k fluff, imperiul ships are powerful but more valuable than people in the imperium, all the ships would run off and let billions die, so thier is gong to be a lot of fighting done on the ground. What is they have taken a Forge world what are are you going to do then? Just blow it all up "Sir all the orcs are now dead, however we are no longer going to be able to suply lasguns or tanks to the gardsmen." "Why?" "Well you blew them all up too." "How dare you question the empore Die Heratic!!".

In shot (Ha short) enless the emporor gets his rincely ass off his golden throun human kind is doomed.

Also all those say "Oh but the orcs would never unite so the imperium would win". please go to the form talking about "Could the orcs all unite?" Rather than this poste which is about "If the orcs unite". you kind of defiting the point of this being a hypithetical discusion.

Yes I am dyslesic no need to try and insult me by saying .Augustus:"Lern to spell noob." *stuk up lagh* *Geeky nazel snort*

TheAlmightyPillock wrote:

Augustus wrote:Moving forward to...? Anything that can be built with a blow torch and a welder? Circa Earth 1920? What a joke.

Whtas with all you people saying that orcs are usless and they will ither be 'crushed by the mity imperium' or that they will only win by pur numbers.

1. Orcs a physicly superior to your standard human.
2.There are dozens of times more of them than humans and ALL of them c an fight (where we have children etc).
3.They repoduce at a rate that is many times faster than our own, so they will will replace their numbers faster than we can.
4.Thier technology may apear crude in many forms but yes it it is just as good as the imperioums if not better and it defanutly is advanceing. Orcs are by far better at telaporter technology for one, able to telaport whole arms to the surface where as the imperium can opnly do a few unis at a time. Thier ships apear crude but they are devistaiting, often many times bigger than impear ships. the shilde teck is also far superior to ours, so much so it is safe to wonder around the outside of the ship without sufacating.
5.Idont remember but someone said the dont have good echonemy or production facilitys? They dont need to thier planning on just nicking ours and making slaves out of those who foolishly surender. Also when the imperioum losses a ship it takes lifetimes to build a new one, the orcs jsut have to weld two imperiul ships back together and hay presto they can come kill you again.
6.Someone also said they have no order or disapline so they wouldn't be able to cordinate an attack. They dont need to, thiers jsut so dam many of them that all want a crack at us, all with one unified goal that they jsut need to zerg everything.
7.You cant jsut bomb them all from space becosue thier would be very few habital planits left. And takticly whoever said that shooting from space and just destroying all thier "Week" ships, please read some warhammer 40k fluff, imperiul ships are powerful but more valuable than people in the imperium, all the ships would run off and let billions die, so thier is gong to be a lot of fighting done on the ground. What is they have taken a Forge world what are are you going to do then? Just blow it all up "Sir all the orcs are now dead, however we are no longer going to be able to suply lasguns or tanks to the gardsmen." "Why?" "Well you blew them all up too." "How dare you question the empore Die Heratic!!".

In shot (Ha short) enless the emporor gets his rincely ass off his golden throun human kind is doomed.

Also all those say "Oh but the orcs would never unite so the imperium would win". please go to the form talking about "Could the orcs all unite?" Rather than this poste which is about "If the orcs unite". you kind of defiting the point of this being a hypithetical discusion.

Yes I am dyslesic no need to try and insult me by saying .Augustus:"Lern to spell noob." *stuk up lagh* *Geeky nazel snort*

at 1 ) wasnt disputed and is also not as relevant in fluff as is in game. CC doesnt win the galaxy.
at 2) again, numbers pulled out of thin air. I'm still waiting for a source of somehow exact numbers.
at 3) again, not really covered by GW. Creatures with high rates of repoduction tend to have high rates of casualtys too.
at 4) per fluff, orks are descendants of the krork and do not invent tech. They remember sometimes what they know, but cant
mass-produce it. So there is nothing "new" to find with orks. Only memories of the past.
at 5) forces based on looting fall easily apart when they find nothing for a time period. Single mek boys cant counter forgeworlds.
at 6) lack of strategy and discipline leads to beeing out-maneuvered and killed. Imperial firepower can deal with those masses.
at 7) the claim was orks would gather, and so it was counterd with bombing them where they stand.

But yes,the return of the emperor would ( and will ) change the balance of power in this galaxy.

Additionally, it wasnt the imperial side that was obsessed with unified orks. We still wait for an answer if and how orks could unite.

PS: no i didnt forget the only viable post explaining this. But a second, maybe different opinion would be welcome.

PPS: purge the xenos.

Orks are as skilled at space travel as the Imperium is, I don't know how people keep getting confused in that respect. They don't navigate into warp storms during a Waaagh, they would never be able to get out of one system.

However, the situation described by the OP was (with some further explaining) that the orks and the Imperium are left alone, but with no further unifying force for the orks. The title is somewhat misleading.

TheAlmightyPillock wrote:
Whtas with all you people saying that orcs are usless and they will ither be 'crushed by the mity imperium' or that they will only win by pur numbers.

1. Orcs a physicly superior to your standard human.
2.There are dozens of times more of them than humans and ALL of them c an fight (where we have children etc).
3.They repoduce at a rate that is many times faster than our own, so they will will replace their numbers faster than we can.
4.Thier technology may apear crude in many forms but yes it it is just as good as the imperioums if not better and it defanutly is advanceing. Orcs are by far better at telaporter technology for one, able to telaport whole arms to the surface where as the imperium can opnly do a few unis at a time. Thier ships apear crude but they are devistaiting, often many times bigger than impear ships. the shilde teck is also far superior to ours, so much so it is safe to wonder around the outside of the ship without sufacating.
5.Idont remember but someone said the dont have good echonemy or production facilitys? They dont need to thier planning on just nicking ours and making slaves out of those who foolishly surender. Also when the imperioum losses a ship it takes lifetimes to build a new one, the orcs jsut have to weld two imperiul ships back together and hay presto they can come kill you again.
6.Someone also said they have no order or disapline so they wouldn't be able to cordinate an attack. They dont need to, thiers jsut so dam many of them that all want a crack at us, all with one unified goal that they jsut need to zerg everything.
7.You cant jsut bomb them all from space becosue thier would be very few habital planits left. And takticly whoever said that shooting from space and just destroying all thier "Week" ships, please read some warhammer 40k fluff, imperiul ships are powerful but more valuable than people in the imperium, all the ships would run off and let billions die, so thier is gong to be a lot of fighting done on the ground. What is they have taken a Forge world what are are you going to do then? Just blow it all up "Sir all the orcs are now dead, however we are no longer going to be able to suply lasguns or tanks to the gardsmen." "Why?" "Well you blew them all up too." "How dare you question the empore Die Heratic!!".

1. Physical superiority means nothing when you are killed beyond arms length.
2. Sure, they have numbers over us, but when we can Exterminatus an ork-infested planet and not even bother fighting them, it does not matter.
3. Reproduction rate is irrelevent, Exterminatus ends all life on a planet.
4. Equipment production from orks mainly relies on stealing items from their opponents. Please reread the Fluff, Ork Technology does not advance, they were produced by the old ones to have a few specific boys that can repair, maintain, and rebuild the items that they already have. Their Teleportation technology is remnant of the old ones who implanted that knowledge in their collective memory. They cannot create ships of their own, they need to hack together remains of other ships. If there is just Imperium and Orks, then the Orks have a smaller pool of ships and equipment to loot, and would not be able to maintain any sort of armed space navy vs the Imperium.
5. Production facilities are a moot point when they are only producing ground warfare weapons. Extermatus will eliminate the need to fight any war on the ground.
6. The strategy of Zerging someone relies on a coordinated attack, Orks can pull off a coordinated attack. However, they would need to get past the Entire Imperial Space Navy before they can start to do what they do best. If they do get past the Imperial Navy, they just exterminatus the planet that the orks land on while they are there.
7. Please re-read the fluff regarding the number of planet in the Imperium... they can very well afford to Exterminatus every single planet with Orks on them. Losing a few Forge Worlds would not cripple the Imperium because they will not need them once the Orkish threat has been eliminated. They currently cannot throw away Forge Worlds because they are fighting wars on every conceiveable front.

Orks would win if they fought for the star trek universe ?

I see. Orks vs federation = 1:0

At least that would be something that wasn't already resolved on page 3 of the thread before this one.

That's why it's important that threads like this never die, you never know when some new bit of important information will come along.

Lord-Loss wrote:About that stuff that said Orks are crap and Guardman can beat them easily. Its Gak, Why?

Taken from Fugrim: "Whoever said the Greenskins were primitve obviously never had to fight them"

"It seems there was no star system throughout the Galaxy that had not been infested by the Greenskins"

" Greenskin warriors were monstious brutes whose strength was nearly equal of an Astartes warrior"

"There central nerve system was so primitive that they took a great deal of punishment before they lay down and stopped fighting"

"A greenskin warrior was not the equal of an Astartes by any means, but they had raw agression to make up for it, and they had numbers on there side"

"Astartes fired volley after volley into the enemy, but no matter how many fell, it only seemed to spur the survives into a frenzy"

This combined with these quoted from the Ork effectiveness thread.

Cheese Elemental wrote:No, Mekboyz really are better engineers than the Adeptus Mechanicus because they aren't afraid of new technology. Look at some of their stuff. A gun that can fire things through the Warp? A force field that covers more than one person? The Imperium, compared to the Orks, may seem superior in technology at a glance, but Orks are always going forwards. There's a lengthy bit of fluff in the Ork codex about the War of Dakka, in which a Warboss' Lootas and Flash Gitz took to looting Tau weapons and successfully using them (even making them shootier), and Meks were looting Tau vehicles and making them faster and tougher.

Cheese Elemental wrote:No, Mekboyz really are better engineers than the Adeptus Mechanicus because they aren't afraid of new technology. Look at some of their stuff. A gun that can fire things through the Warp? A force field that covers more than one person? The Imperium, compared to the Orks, may seem superior in technology at a glance, but Orks are always going forwards. There's a lengthy bit of fluff in the Ork codex about the War of Dakka, in which a Warboss' Lootas and Flash Gitz took to looting Tau weapons and successfully using them (even making them shootier), and Meks were looting Tau vehicles and making them faster and tougher.

1hadh wrote:numbers pulled out of thin air. I'm still waiting for a source of somehow exact numbers.

Page 1 of the Ork codex states something like "Orks are the most numerous of all the races"