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with my 'crons i'd castle up with my monolith, snipe off some of those trukks with my destroyers and stop the wagons with scarabs and destroyer body lords with warsycths then rapid fire you off the table (gazz i'd pit with flayed ones and lord with gaze making you ld 6 and make you hit me on 6's).

grankobot wrote:But if you were playing the Tau it would be like the unstoppable force meeting with the immovable object and the world as we know it would cease to be, right?

Since you're such a fan of flamebait, and can't seem to help but attempting to drag threads down into the pits...I would respectfully ask that you stop posting in threads I've authored, or responding to my posts at all.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Since you're such a fan of flamebait, and can't seem to help but attempting to drag threads down into the pits...I would respectfully ask that you stop posting in threads I've authored, or responding to my posts at all.

What good is opening yourself to discussion if you're completely shut off to others' opinions? Every time somebody offers some solid, objective point, you pick at the little details and completely ignore the merit of their ideas.

For example, the images I posted with the grots. Yes, your boyz won't be lined up. If they are, if they're not, IT DOESN'T MATTER! The point is that anybody with half a brain can pull the correct models to keep your unit from being completely surrounded and "immune" to assaults. The idea that being in combat can reliably protect you from other assaults is total bull.

But you ignored that part, since your dudes don't deploy in a line, which doesn't make a difference at all. Focus on the superficial, completely miss the point.

lol.

grankobot wrote:IT DOESN'T MATTER!

Yeah, yeah it does. 7 models who actually maintain unit coherency (like the Grots in your picutre didn't), in that curved formation will make it difficult to Assault without fleet for extra distance, unless the mob of boyz is directly behind the Grots. Even then, you'll only get a few models into combat, and then you'll have wasted your charge bonus.

grankobot - I agree that you should stop trolling.

Ok granted you may have a strong urge to post, then go ahead and open your own thread and whine. If you seriously need to continue a discussion of your own, you are welcome to create a new topic for it and I am sure interested parties will participate.

You don't have to reply to my post, or this thread will turn into a flame war. JUST GO AWAY.

DarkHound wrote:

grankobot wrote:IT DOESN'T MATTER!

Yeah, yeah it does. 7 models who actually maintain unit coherency (like the Grots in your picutre didn't)

No, no it doesn't. You don't have to maintain coherency when you pull models. It's more than possible to pull them to keep your assault open enough to get some real swings in. If your opponents are telling you that you can't, you need to stop letting them bully you and actually try picking up a rulebook sometime. I suggest you start on page 12, unit coherency.

Does the fact that I'd rather get my point across than be polite make me a troll? Really? I'm a troll because I'm willing to point out when someone is flat out wrong instead of dancing around the issue?

Well then as long as I'm trolling:

Mech orks aren't competitive. Trukks are possibly the worst vehicle in the game. Boyz mobs are, in all forms, universally crappy. A nob with a boarding plank is NOT anti-tank. Any decent player with any (really, ANY) decent MSU shooting army will have its way with this army.

^--- those are facts. Get back to me in 6 months when you've been out-shot and out-assaulted a couple times by the new tyranids and blood angels.

grankobot, your point was made and disagreed with.

There are 4 pages of people posting their lists, their tactics for using them, and me asking polite questions, giving thanks for input, and having a good conversation to help me understand the potential weaknesses of my army.

Then YOU show up...as you do in so many threads, and when you post your own thoughts about how I'm going to get massacred, which I disagree with...you launch into personal attacks. You derail my thread. You post some pictures and start theoryhammering a game which is NOT what I wanted here. I've asked you to stop. I've asked you to stop posting. I tried changing the subject to put this thread back on track.

Now I've reported you for trolling. Please stop posting here. Please stop following me around the forums and attacking me. I don't need a stalker, and I'm rather feeling like you are one. You've made your point, I read it. Others read it too. You don't need to post again, please do not.

Telling you why you're wrong is not a personal attack. If you think it is, you seriously need to get over yourself. Perpetuating the the idea that bad armies somehow aren't is only bad for the hobby. Instead of getting offended by the facts, why don't you you abandon your sinking ship and try something that actually works for orks?

I don't need a stalker, and I'm rather feeling like you are one.

Refer to the above point. lol.

Thank you grankobot, we got your point, but we all know that you are NOOB in 40k - Yes we know.


Guys lets continue the discussion. :-). Btw, I am pretty positive the best way to ignore a troll is simply to IGNORE him.

My question to DashofPepper is :- How often did your kommandos + Snikrot impress you? I started off with them in my speed freak list, but later on discarded them.

grankobot wrote:Does the fact that I'd rather get my point across than be polite make me a troll? Really? I'm a troll because I'm willing to point out when someone is flat out wrong instead of dancing around the issue?

It doesn't make you a troll (by itself), although it does break the rules of Dakka. Be polite is rule number one, if I remember correctly.

Now, for your other points, I had always assumed units needed to maintain coherensy. Thank you for pointing that out. However, the point still stands that the grots in the way will reduce the number of models you can get into close combat. In that curved shape the pile in move will not particularly help your case.

EDIT: Right, back on topic then! Dash, I hope I'm not being needy, but how would you combat my list in the formation I wrote about. I don't have any armies near-by that play like yours, so I'd like to know incase I do run into one.

Davicus wrote:
Thank you grankobot, we got your point. Bye :-)


Guys lets continue the discussion. :-). Btw, I am pretty positive the best way to ignore a troll is simply to IGNORE him.

My question to DashofPepper is :- How often did your kommandos + Snikrot impress you? I started off with them in my speed freak list, but later on discarded them.

Honestly....I think if Snikrot never came onto the table, I would still take him. Snikrot isn't about what he can kill, or whether he gets his points worth, much like Ghazghkull isn't about whether you can kill 225 points of the enemy with him. Snikrot boiling onto the table and ravaging a unit or two is extra, and I'll take it, but his REAL purpose, and the reason he goes into my mechanized list as a basic requirement is to make people avoid the table edges. With Snikrot in your list, your opponent won't put their heavy weapon squad on the back edge. They'll move their heavy tanks around and get less shooting so that if Snikrot comes on, he'll need 4+ or 6+ to hit them. Once upon a time, I thought it was cool to not point out what Snikrot can do and try surprising people, but I think I get more value out of TELLING them that I have Snikrot so that they'll move forward towards the slavering maw of my mechanized orks.

Give him a try. Wander over to your opponent's side of the board and eyeball their rear units suspiciously and mutter under your breathe about Snikrot. There are games where my kommando squad (and Snikrot) never even get to fight anyone because even a 6" move and 6" deployment won't get him close enough from any table edge to hit anything. And that's OK! He served his purpose. Then there are games where Eldrad is sitting with a dark reaper squad sniping on the back table edge and you're like, "ohai....im in ur shrubberies eatin' ur Eldrad....nomnomnom"

A lot of people advocate Lootas as mechanized support, but I'm a firm believer in keeping my army together. I'm not ever going to voluntarily split up my army and let my opponent have it piecemeal. Putting a Loota unit on the back table edge, unsupported and by itself is begging for a fast attack, or an outflanker, or a template to come mulch it while the rest of the army is elsewhere. I can handle Snikrot in a mechanized list because he can stay with the army. Turn2, or 3, or whenever he comes out....I can bring him out in support of my army, where I need him to be, which makes him as mobile as the mechanized portion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkHound wrote:

EDIT: Right, back on topic then! Dash, I hope I'm not being needy, but how would you combat my list in the formation I wrote about. I don't have any armies near-by that play like yours, so I'd like to know incase I do run into one.

I really don't want to get into how I'd fight everyone's army - I was just looking for notes on how people would beat my army so that I could look for things I haven't seen before, or consider strategies and such.

This thread is starting to generate a lot of Mod Alerts.

It seems as if there's a lot of good discussion going on here.

As someone pointed out earlier, keep it polite and on point.

Thanks.

DarkHound wrote:Alright, now this looks like fun. I'll admit, your list has me concerned, but I think I know how to beat it.

Sorcerer Lord Nikolii, MoN, Winds of Chaos, 150
Father's Envoy, the Great Unclean One (Greater Daemon), 100
7 Possessed Marines, Champ, Icon of Nurgle, Rhino, 277
7 Plague Marines, Personal Icon, 2 Meltaguns, Champ, Combi-Flamer, Rhino, 246
6 Noise Marines, Personal Icon, 5 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Champ, Rhino with Havoc Launcher, 255
7 Plague Bearers (Lesser Daemons), 91
7 Plague Bearers (Lesser Daemons), 91
4 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Slaanesh, 172
2 Obliterators, 150
Predator, Lascannon Turret and Sponsons, 165
Defiler, TL Heavy Flamer, CCW, 150
1847

All I have to do is keep your hammers away and I can weather the storm. Castle up to keep Snikrot at bay and blow Gazzy's wagon away. He won't be making it to combat until turn 4 with Slow and Purposeful. I'll keep the Burna Boyz away if I can, but that is less important. My Possessed, Plaguers and Defiler can ward off 4 Trukk Mobs, especially if I pull the Rhinos in a semi-circle. Of course, my strategy will change dramatically if I get Furious Charge on my Possessed and the Greater Daemon on turn two, but so long as I can keep Ghazzy and the Burna Boyz away I am golden.

Rough and ready thoughts on how I'd try beating you if you use this list and castle up...

I think I'll make it across the table pretty unscathed against that shooting. Turn2 I'm going to nestle up against your rhinos (and your defiler if I can) and send nobs on boarding planks over to beat on them. I'll pop a few. The following turn you've got nowhere really to move, but you're going to lay into my vehicles and probably disembark a chunk of them. I'm going to make sure to disembark as far away from you as possible using my wreckage and craters for cover so that you can't charge me. Then, my next turn I'm going to reposition any remaining vehicles, dump out their contents for a charge, declare a Waaaugh!, and send my army smashing into your castle. There are some ideal matchups there:

Ghazghkull vs your Defiler (or greater demon, or....anything really)
Burna boys...whether they would stay in a battlewagon and drop 15 templates on you or get out and assault depends on if their battlewagon is alive, positioning of models...etc. Burna boys are great for eating obliterators too. =p
My boys would smack into your plague bearers or less scary marines - depends on what's on foot, and a lot of other things.

That's the premise though - turn 1 crossing the board, turn 2 assaulting your vehicles from inside my vehicles, turn 3 assaulting your non-vehicles with my non-vehicles.

Dashofpepper wrote:Honestly....I think if Snikrot never came onto the table, I would still take him. Snikrot isn't about what he can kill, or whether he gets his points worth, much like Ghazghkull isn't about whether you can kill 225 points of the enemy with him. Snikrot boiling onto the table and ravaging a unit or two is extra, and I'll take it, but his REAL purpose, and the reason he goes into my mechanized list as a basic requirement is to make people avoid the table edges. With Snikrot in your list, your opponent won't put their heavy weapon squad on the back edge. They'll move their heavy tanks around and get less shooting so that if Snikrot comes on, he'll need 4+ or 6+ to hit them. Once upon a time, I thought it was cool to not point out what Snikrot can do and try surprising people, but I think I get more value out of TELLING them that I have Snikrot so that they'll move forward towards the slavering maw of my mechanized orks.

Dash, isn't that counter productive? You need the enemy to spread out so you can force a refused flank. A castled army puts a serious damper on your plans, and Snikrot forces them to castle. I'd probably take Zagstruk instead. It'll make him have to cover his heavy weapons teams the same way, but allows him to spread out.

EDIT: I'd argue that my long ranged fire is good enough (including the Melta Bikers). So I guess that'll make or break the deal. I just wanted to know how whether or not you'd change your plan, which apparently you won't. As soon as I get some money (and freedom) I'd love to head out and test it against you.

Dashofpepper wrote:Anyway, other posts welcome!

I'm going to see if a friend of mine will assemble that space wolves list for a friendly game with me this weekend.

I hope you manage to get this done. I look forward to your batrep.

Hopefully, you can get more than just one game in.

Just out of curiosity Dash, how would you get around the piranha wall? Barring deff rolla shinanigans I'm not sure you would even really be able to bring 850 pts to bare on my army. If my math is correct I have about a 60' wall to quarter you off with.

I know you have a Tau army and are much more experienced than me using them (I just got my army together 2 weeks ago lol ebay ftw!) so I'm curious what kind of problems you've run into facing speed freak orks such as your army.

If you were running lootas I could see my problem but with Snikrot as the only thing against my backfield I'm just not sure it would be as easy to catch/kill my guys after I've dismantled your transports.

@Darkhound: Snikrot would make YOU castle up, but that doesn't seem to be a prevailing trend. Keep in mind that 2/3 of games are objective based, and a tight castle either has to sit tight and ignore the objectives, be a moving castle bi enough to secure multiple objectives, or break up to go get objectives. Something for you to ponder....I always place objectives as close as possible to other objectives. If we're playing seize ground, I place mine 12" away from the one you just placed, and so on. In capture and control, I place mine at the edge of my deployment zone as close as possible to yours. I'm always trying to make a centralizing killing zone where my whole army can go and cause maximum damage. Anyway, in my experience Snikrot tends to make people avoid table edges, but that's not synonymous with castling up.

Also on the face of it...it would seem like taking zagstruk would force the enemy to spread out to cover ground and deny a drop zone....and while 40k *is* a game of dice, there's too much chance there for my tastes. I've used Zagstruk. In fact, Zagstruk and his 20 Stormboyz are the only unit in my ork army that are professionally painted (waves to Hulksmash). I need to play with him more to get comfortable with where he might fit in, but I originally had a lot of waffling back and forth about Snikrot vs. Zagstruk, and I ended up choosing Snikrot because of the certainty of where he'll come out. Zagstruk is difficult. The fact that you have 21 models that need to be placed without mishap, combined with the fact that the unit needs to deepstrike within 6" of an enemy unit, combined with the scatter being 2D6....its a very risky unit. I've been shying away lately.

Melta bikers don't scare me so much...a lot of folks around here have bikers in their army, and I quite often see people sending melta bikes in a wide circle around me to prep for some melta nuking. However, nobody expects the spanish inquisition! And even when you tell someone that your orks can cover and assault 28" in one turn, its still a hard thing to visualize; it goes against the grain of the rest of the 40k armies. You're either going to put your bikes outside my assault range, in which case they won't be in melta range, or you're going to put your bikes inside my assault range for a next turn melta hit, and get assaulted before you get to use them. I keep my army together....but a unit of 4 bikes cruising around by itself will get a trukk full of boys to split off and go assault it.

I think the real strength of my army is (I've said this a bunch here already) that *I* decide where the fight is. *I* decide how many units are involved. There are advantages to controlling the battlefield, which is what I'm always aiming to do. Making my enemy continually try reacting to me, with the initiative in my favor. None of this was a "I'd stomp your army" because I haven't played you or that army. =p
-------------------------

@MrDrumMachine: I'll be honest, I've never played with or against a piranha wall. Plenty of Tau armies have a couple of them, but never a solid wall of them. I can't really answer your question on this one. As ork trukks well know, AV10 can be killed by pretty much anything, and every ork vehicle has at least one STR5 big shoota, and if you're in range to try the melta, you're also in range to get hit with a boarding plank and a fusillade of small arms fire by the passing mob....then again, the board layout determines much; slowing down enough to shoot pistols out of my vehicles has a cost to itself, and I'd likely just run up to your piranhas and throw powerklaws on them on my way by.

The real weakness of Tau against mechanized orks is the KFF with the 4+ save. When I'm playing Tau and my wife is playing mechanized orks, and she's listening to my tactical advice....they ALWAYS reach me. With a static gunline and ridiculous amounts of firepower pouring into them, you simply can't disembark an entire ork army in one turn. After that, it gets into positioning, meatshield units, crisis suits, whether Farsight is in the army...it gets ugly.

So that's my answer to you: As a Tau player, my problem with speed freaks is that no matter how much fire you pour into them, some will still make it to your lines. I'ma big advocate of meatshield firewarriors (not kroot) who can pour out a bunch of 30" firepower before getting assaulted - you can box in half your army with a single squad of firewarriors, and blunt that ork charge - limit it to a single squad of firewarriors (which in turn puts them out int he open for a next turn barrage of fire)....but its ugly going no matter how you spin it.

Sometimes reserving large chunks of your army and giving first turn to mech orks is a good strategy. It's a horrible waste of 255 points if Snikrot comes in at the top of turn 2 and there's nothing worthwile to assault. You can also get a late game win/draw by using a fast moving outflanker to contest or possible hold an objective.

olympia wrote:Sometimes reserving large chunks of your army and giving first turn to mech orks is a good strategy. It's a horrible waste of 255 points if Snikrot comes in at the top of turn 2 and there's nothing worthwile to assault. You can also get a late game win/draw by using a fast moving outflanker to contest or possible hold an objective.

I also particularly like this strategy because it lets me cross the table unmolested while large chunks of reserves can't bring guns to bear on me.

Dashofpepper wrote:
@MrDrumMachine: I'll be honest, I've never played with or against a piranha wall. Plenty of Tau armies have a couple of them, but never a solid wall of them. I can't really answer your question on this one. As ork trukks well know, AV10 can be killed by pretty much anything, and every ork vehicle has at least one STR5 big shoota, and if you're in range to try the melta, you're also in range to get hit with a boarding plank and a fusillade of small arms fire by the passing mob....then again, the board layout determines much; slowing down enough to shoot pistols out of my vehicles has a cost to itself, and I'd likely just run up to your piranhas and throw powerklaws on them on my way by.

The real weakness of Tau against mechanized orks is the KFF with the 4+ save. When I'm playing Tau and my wife is playing mechanized orks, and she's listening to my tactical advice....they ALWAYS reach me. With a static gunline and ridiculous amounts of firepower pouring into them, you simply can't disembark an entire ork army in one turn. After that, it gets into positioning, meatshield units, crisis suits, whether Farsight is in the army...it gets ugly.

So that's my answer to you: As a Tau player, my problem with speed freaks is that no matter how much fire you pour into them, some will still make it to your lines. I'ma big advocate of meatshield firewarriors (not kroot) who can pour out a bunch of 30" firepower before getting assaulted - you can box in half your army with a single squad of firewarriors, and blunt that ork charge - limit it to a single squad of firewarriors (which in turn puts them out int he open for a next turn barrage of fire)....but its ugly going no matter how you spin it.

The 2nd paragraph is pretty much why I think it would come down to who got the 1st turn, if I could put the KFF on foot then I think it would be possible to pick off the rest of your vehicles between 2-4 a turn, and while I completely agree a gunline of Tau is horrible, the only 2 static units I have would be a squad of pathfinders and my broadsides. If I were to get first turn I'd have a fair shot of taking out both BW with them before snikrot eats their lunch.

Plus I'd have 2 squads of 8 drones to both force pinning checks on disembarked 12 man units of orks and act as speed bumps for the other portions. If you took first turn then not only would you get 13-19' closer to me before I start separating your army but I might not even take down 1 BW with my broadsides before they're just wrecked.

Lots and lots of variables for sure! I think it would be a lot of fun and if you get the chance maybe you could play your wife with my list and see how it works? Of course if you don't have the piranhas then it wouldn't work, but also remember the front armor on the piranha is 11 which would make it that much more difficult for your pot shots and big shootas.

Thanks for the response though!

I find an extremely wonderful response to broadsides is a turn1 assault from a Deffkopta unit.

Dashofpepper wrote:I find an extremely wonderful response to broadsides is a turn1 assault from a Deffkopta unit.

QFT

Since GW boards are so small it is nye impossible to avoid a turn 1 attack. Even if they don't kill your broadsides then they at least stop them from shooting. Basicaly a 48" assault range is hard to hide from. (24" scout movement, 12" move phase, 12" assault, plus you get to shoot, not that it will do anything, but hey, we can try.) I kinda missed this part on the thread so I'll ask now. Snikrot????? As a terror weapon I have found him effecitve, combatively, not as good as outflanking deth koptas, IMHO.

If you're asking me about Snikrot...just scroll up a bit.

I use both Snikrot and a Deffkopta or two.

In the case of the broadsides, a turn1 deffkopta assault to tie up the broadsides until Snikrot can enter the board and finish the unit off. Whether the deffkoptas start on the table or in reserve pretty much depend on whether I roll for 1st or 2nd.

I thought deffkoptas only got a 6" assault???

quite an army list you got going there, its only real weaknesses are an endless horde, or some anit-tank units with some range... .ad 4 playing DE? well i know to many tatics abount feilding them 4 my own good. they are at their best when you concenterate all your force on one target at a time. keep 'em moving and crush your foe utterly PM me 4 more DE stuff... I KNOW TO MUCH ABOUT AN ARMY I DONT PLAY

Hmm... Let me post my list then think about it.

Fortuneseer w/ RoWarding
Yriel
10 Warlocks
4 Singing Spears, Emboldenx2, Enhance
Serpent w/ ShuriCannons
Spirit Stones

5 Dragons
Serpent w/ ShuriCannons
Spirit Stones

5 Dragons
Serpent w/ ShuriCannons
Spirit Stones

5 Dire Avengers
Serpent w/ Brightlances
Spirit Stones

5 Dire Avengers
Falcon
Holo-Fields, Brightlances
Spirit Stones

3 Warwalkers
w/ 2 ScatLasers Ea.

3 Warwalkers
w/ 2 ScatLasers Ea.

First, kudos on your list, looks real solid. As for this list, I would probably suicide bomb your deffrollas with my dragons, or, if I could snipe them beforehand with my serpents, more power to me. Crippling your transports with my warwalkers, outflanking(maybe hiding behind some junk). My council would probably sit their serpent bridging two objectives(if its KP ill just gun for your Ghazghkull, I like a challenge .)Focusing on crippling/slaughtering your troops would be my #1 priority, keeping your entire force at arms length with my speed. My falcon would probably chill out on a home objective. That's what I would do, hope it helps you, that is how I would "beat" it.

grankobot, please stop corrupting the internet... with your stupid...

Dashofpepper wrote:In the case of the broadsides, a turn1 deffkopta assault to tie up the broadsides until Snikrot can enter the board and finish the unit off. Whether the deffkoptas start on the table or in reserve pretty much depend on whether I roll for 1st or 2nd.

But that's assuming your opponent leave the broadsides open for you to do that. If you as a Tau player yourself know you won't make that mistake, what makes you think your opponent will?

Hey Dash, here are a few of the list's I currently run for local tourney's and normally do quite well with or that I'm currently building to run, I'll skip my 'nids since they are changing to soon for it to really merit discussion on

1) Imperial Guard: Had to drop a Colussus which I normally take as my 3rd HS Choice since it's 1850

HQ:
2xCCS Squads w/3 Melta and Chimera's w/HHF

Troop:
2xVet Squads w/2 Plasma, 1 Melta and Chimera w/HHF
2xVet Squads w/3 Melta and Chimera w/HHF
1xVet w/Demolitions and 3 Flamers

Fast Attack:
Vendetta

Heavy Support:

2xLeman Russ w/HHB and HB Sponsons
1xDemolisher w/Lascannon
1xDemolisher w/HHB

The trick naturally is to use any speed I have to dismount you. The Vendetta, due to it's scout move will normally have an excellent shooting position for either side BW armor or more than likely a Trukk. If you run it in a tight group it gives my scatter on my big guns a good chance to pick up a truck or BW before you get to combat. Everything in my army moves and keeps it's shooting solid. As soon as your walking against guard your toast so that's where the focus would be. Naturally scenarios, 1st turn, terrain, and deployment would be taken into account.

2) Space Wolves:

HQ:
Rune Priest w/Living Lightning (D6 St7 Shots), and Murderous Hurricane

Elite:
5xWG in TA w/2 WC, 2 C-Melta, 2 SS, Cyclone
Dreadnought in a pod w/Heavy Flamer, AC
Dreadnought in a pod w/Heavy Flamer, AC

Troop:
1x8 GH & 1 WG w/melta, MotW, Power Weapon, Powerfist&Combi-Flamer on WG, Drop Pod
2x9 GH & 1 WG w/melta, MotW, Power Weapon, Powerfist&Combi-Flamer on WG, Rhino
2x5 GH & 1 WG w/melta, MotW, Power Weapon on WG, Razorback w/HB

Heavy:
5 Long Fangs w/4 Missile Launchers

Same Style as before except that I don't actually mind when you assault me since most of your boys will disappear along with my boyz The Drop pod assault will also cause you to decide what you want to go after. Either giving me another turn with missile launchers or leaving my troops in your back field. Granted i've only given this list a single shot so far but it seemed like a solid set-up. It mixes up a lot more at 2k but 1850 is much harder for me for some reason

I've also got a my gk's which would be a narrow fight since I've got 2 LR's but since they lose 2 games in 3 for me I don't really field them or feel like typing up the list.

Like everyone has pointed out your biggest problem is if someone manages to stay concentrated or if they manage to disrupt your mobility. It's a solid build and a modified one that I used to run thru 4th and at the beginning of 5th before I hung up my Orks. I'd say even 'nids would have an excellent chance against this list since when you mass charge you hit gaunts and those will dissolve (due to no retreat wounds) leaving you open for counter attacks. One way i've seen this countered is to burn the guys in front and charge thru the gap but that only works if there is a single layer of gaunts. Just some more food for thought.

Just something id like to point out, you know you cant Waaagh with Ghazghkull on the first turn of the game right?
Incase there is a question, here is my support: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1810080_Orks_FAQ_2007_5th_Edition.pdf

You cannot Waaagh T1. Dash knows this (either that or he's got a split personality, seeing as how much he talks about a 28" threat range T2).