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Alpharius wrote:

BrookM wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:

Breotan wrote:And the top of that banner pole is... unfortunate.

...I'm not seeing whatever it is. Anyone care to elaborate?

Probably too bland, too Ultra like or too festooned with avian skulls.

It is, quite happily, none of those things.

Still, it wouldn't be normal if some hate wasn't sprinkled on it, even if just a little bit...

Indeed, this is Dakka and hate must be spread somehow.

I've had a bad experience with the resin banner poles on the dreads.

I've got a forgeworld BT dread (which I still haven't built) and the banner pole has snapped just below the skeletons feet. Lucky for me the main part and the base that the skeleton stands on are still together so I'll pin it there.

I wouldn't recommend their durability though.

On another note, I'd agree that the FW arms don't do it justice so I picked up a set of GW venerable arms for it instead. they have way more detail.

Thin resin is always snappy, snappy.

BrookM wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

BrookM wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:

Breotan wrote:And the top of that banner pole is... unfortunate.

...I'm not seeing whatever it is. Anyone care to elaborate?

Probably too bland, too Ultra like or too festooned with avian skulls.

It is, quite happily, none of those things.

Still, it wouldn't be normal if some hate wasn't sprinkled on it, even if just a little bit...

Indeed, this is Dakka and hate must be spread somehow.

This is why I called it unfortunate. I don't think they were trying for this.

Yeah, and if you look close enough...there's a Steel Legion figure giving the Nazi salute!

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, and if you look close enough...there's a Steel Legion figure giving the Nazi salute!

I see it! I see it! It's right next to the midget Elvis making out with alien Bigfoot riding the Loch Ness Manbearpig!

@Breotan: How on earth are you making that connection?

It's not even close in form or layering.

I saw it as well.

It's not exact, but it's close.

BrookM wrote:Indeed, this is Dakka and hate must be spread somehow.

I'm in favor of the direct approach. I hate you all and hope you die in a freak lacemaking accident aboard a luxury liner bound for New York.

Reminiscent is a better word. Most of the distinctive elements are there (wings, German symbol, and wreath), but they aren't arrayed in the same fashion.

It didn't make me envision Nazis from the get-go, but I can see how it could do that for some.

dogma wrote:It didn't make me envision Nazis from the get-go, but I can see how it could do that for some.

I agree. And I think that's what Breotan was getting at as well when he said it was "unfortunate" as opposed to it being "ZOMG! Teh Nazis!!!!!!1".

I can't look at that model again normally now.

I mean, I've always associated the Imperium with Nazism, so it isn't really a big deal in my mind.

anyone gotten their IA apoc II book yet? can you confirm if the punisher armed vulture is twin linked or armed with two punisher guns?

It's twin-linked, just check the IA1 update found on the FW site.

BrookM wrote:It's twin-linked, just check the IA1 update found on the FW site.

cool, thanks and downloaded now. i don't think i'd want the dual punisher option if i can have 4(!!) large blast templates that are defensive weapons instead for the same price.

The thing about the banner is that all the elements outside of the swastika in the middle the Nazis ripped off of the Romans. You could just as easily associate it with one or the other.

Only the nazis, may they all burn in hell with their little corporal, have misused such devices for their own use and stigmatised them beyond redemption.

That's totally why the Bundeswehr still uses the eagle and the Iron Cross then? Because they are beyond redemption?

To be on topic I rather like the Space Wolf Dread and the Raven Guard one as well, my only issue with the RG Dread is the empty space above the wings, and for the wolf dread, the lack of Wolfy arms to go with it.

BrotherStynier wrote:That's totally why the Bundeswehr still uses the eagle and the Iron Cross then? Because they are beyond redemption?

WHAT?

Hope this wasnt serious....




Sorry , ancient symbols cant be pirated by the insane forever. And there is exactly none of the imagined reference at
these FW models.

It was an attempt at sarcasm 1hadhq.

The Bundeswehr does still use the Eagle and Iron Cross, maybe not the eagle as much, I know the Fallschirmjager still use it on their beret badge, but for the most part the Cross is on everything. If they were irrevocably damaged by the Nazis I would assume the German Government would have not used those to symbols.

I would have to agree with your last statement, symbols can't be tarnished for ever, and the Raven Guard Dread has no reference to the Nazis.

ok.

So back to the real topic:

Apoc II and the sneak peek.

The raven guard may get its coverage in imperial armor 8.
Where do the wolves come into play? Just single models for the codex?

The Woof Dread is probably a late codex release. IA8 only features orks against Elysians and Raven Guard.

It occurs to me that we don't necessarily need arms specifically for the Wolf Dread, just some Runic strips you could use to edge the current Mk IV arms.....

Anyone any good with a brass etcher?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

dogma wrote:It didn't make me envision Nazis from the get-go, but I can see how it could do that for some.

I agree. And I think that's what Breotan was getting at as well when he said it was "unfortunate" as opposed to it being "ZOMG! Teh Nazis!!!!!!1".

Frankly speaking, entire Imperium gives out these vibes and Space Marines iconography even more than others. SS, after all, also had an inner circle organized akin to religious order, didn't it?.

BrookM wrote:The Woof Dread is probably a late codex release. IA8 only features orks against Elysians and Raven Guard.

The Space Wolf codex is still relatively new. This is about the same timeframe it was between the Ork codex and the releases for the Battlewagons.

We've still got Thunderwolf Cavalry, at the very least, in the cards from FW.

Having spoken to FW there is, in the UK anyway, about a 10-14 day waiting period for this book at the moment. They'll try and get them out earlier but this is further delayed by the wonders of the British postal service and time of year and so on.

Got it - happy with it. Very few relevations (if any as I could not find any) if you own the Vrak series and have downloaded pdfs of new models and formation datasheets.

If you do not have the Vrak series and do not keep abreast...great compilation of everything FW.

Also - the 10 pages of optional rules, force selections, assets, and scenarios is great.

BrookM wrote:I can't look at that model again normally now.

Anyone who has played, collected or observed GW miniatures for 40K for more then ten minutes should already recognize that GW and the Nazi party had the same source of inspiration when it came to such things: Ancient Rome.

Is it really shocking that the two might have similar aesthetics in some way?

Both of them look "Roman". That design is not a "Nazi" look per se, it's origins go back many hundreds of years prior to Hitler's team adopting it...

Seriously. read some history books and get over it people...

Sheck2 wrote:Got it - happy with it. Very few relevations (if any as I could not find any) if you own the Vrak series and have downloaded pdfs of new models and formation datasheets.

If you do not have the Vrak series and do not keep abreast...great compilation of everything FW.

Also - the 10 pages of optional rules, force selections, assets, and scenarios is great.

Could you reveal whether there is more than just one Witch Hunters Datasheet?