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I've already written GW, and plan on doing it again now that LRB6 has been released.

I don't think a boycott would work. I wouldn't be willing to participate. However, I'm changing my spending priorities. I've decided to help get a Malifaux group going at my FLGS, so there is the primary source of my gaming spending.

Second, I have to get my Cygnar list finished. Then, I'll be putting together a competitive and a 'fun' Troll list. (I like Borca, probably not going to win me a lot; but I'll have fun losing.)

Third, terrain supplies.

What I have left, that I will spend on GW. This is what I have outlined in the letter that I have sent them. It also makes my desire to continue building my Skaven, Ork, and Space Wolf armies an attainable goal. It will just take longer, most likely much longer.

As for those advocating that fans can have no effect on GW, then take some of your own advice. We're fanatics that will continue to do what we will. No argument, no matter how oft repeated, will deter us from doing something. Your best hope is to get us to do the same thing at the same time. If you can't manage that, then don't waste your time.

Ouze wrote:So far, the community as represented is split between "this won't work", "this has already been done", "I don't care enough" and variants thereof making up the large majority - at least to my reading. For myself, I will continue on the path so many before me and after me have followed: I'll stop purchasing things from GW, and build the massive stockpile of things I already have acquired.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note, I really enjoyed Grot6's meandering post that claimed that the CEO, who makes a lousy 400k USD a year, essentially runs the illuminati and that they'd "come after me" somehow.

Don't be a douche, I didn't claim anything of the sort.

All I said was that they are serious businessmen who know exactly what they are doing. Aside from the fact that your GW euros, pounds, and dollars are going to more then just one buisness interest, This community doesn't have the inherent discipline to match wits with a multinational company on thier terms.

Serious considerations would be to fight them with that so called boycott bucks by buying sufficient stock and sending a serious representative to a few of thier stockholders meetings, the represetative being known by thier organization, and gaining sufficient support from other shareholders to make a motion. When you get the motion, you stick with it, stay unemotional about it, and make it happen. The thing that would be the hardest would be for people to get a general consensus of what they actually want to do, AND STICK WITH IT.

These guys know how to make money, they have a sufficent amount of private industrial pull from major players, and a strong history of relationships from this particular university. You want to be stupid, and not look at the facts at hand thats on you. probibly unlike you, I know how these kind of people think. You need to want to make money too, and sometimes that is going to have to be to make some hard choices, but they arn't personal. They are choices to make freakin money.

You don't do anything major alone. And what people here want to do, even if they are not coming out and saying it is that they want to walk up in there, tell these guys that they are pissed at some of thier decisions, and that they want something done about it.
You really want to do something like that you pull sufficent capitol together and make a single direct action or position. You don't go it at ten thousand different NONcapitol making decisions.

As for that "This won't work," "That won't work," What works is making a plan, figuring out what to do, and just doing it. You want to make an impact on someone that is making more then you are? Then you do it with sufficient force. either by Money or Power. If you don't go to thier school, then no one knows you, or no one can vouch for you. You arn't one of the "Cool Kids" so to speak, so what else can you do?
You get a group of investors together, get a rep that will work with you, and make what you want to happen, happen.

Money talks, BS walks.

The inferred collaberations, relationships, and history is there. If you want to refute it, by all means, what have YOU got? Do you have some special nuggets on how a corperation works? Do you think that that is NOT how they do things? Maybe you think that these guys are "faceless numbers crunchers" that don't have families, jobs, and expenses of thier own? These guys know each other. they sit around, make some conversations abotu how this works, that works, and then they make motions and make it happen and with sufficient shareholder support, it happens.

Supply- Demand.

They have a product that people want, they ask a price, you will either pay for it.... or you won't.

There's a very important fact about boycotting retail product that you people do not seem to realize. When you cease buying their product, you don't hurt GW at all. Their income is not based on your purchases. If 1000 people in 1000 communities around the world stop buying GW product, they will not even notice. Not because they could care less, but because they can't see it in the sales figures. The money you spend on GW (or any other retail product) goes to the store owner and that's it. Here's how it works:

1: GW sets a cost for their product that they offer to the retailer.
2: The retailer buys the product in bulk at the set cost.
3: This is where terms like "got it at cost" comes from. You paid the retailer's 'cost' price for the product.
4: The product comes with a MSRP (Manufacturere's Suggested Retail Price).
5: The retailer marks up the product a certain % over cost.
6: This percentage is called 'profit'.
7: You purchase the product from the retailer at the store-marked price.
8: Retailer makes the profit.

Now then, GW makes it's money at step #2. Anything after step #2, GW doesn't know about, care about, worry about, or deal with. They are DONE with that particular batch of product now. Any purchases of GW product by an end user after step #2 is exactly the same. It doesn't matter if you buy it online, ebay, FLGS, next-door-neighbor, or trade for it on Bartertown. It's all the same to GW because they already made the money on every one of those sets/kits/models.

Imagine, if you will, that you have a gaming community in your town that is made up of 100 players on the nose. All 100 of you have only ONE store to buy from. Nobody else in town carries gaming stuff. Now then, that store owner stocks his shelves by stocking what his customer base is buying. Per the contract between him and GW, he has to buy x amount of each boxed set, x amount of each model kit, x amount of each army book or peripheral, x amount of everything he buys from them, at a fixed price per unit.

*STOP*

GW just made it's money and now walks away.


If only ONE of those 100 customers stops buying GW stuff from the FLGS, it will not impact the store owner's monthly GW purchase. Therefore, GW will not be hurt one bit if you stop buying their product. It will take your WHOLE gaming community to even begin to remotely start resembling something that might one day look like a situation that GW might notice.

If you multiply that imaginary 100-person community by 100,000 communities globally, that means that a mere 100,000 out of 10,000,000 (TEN MILLION) people worldwide stop buying GW product. Only 100,000 out of TEN MILLION. GW, just like any other large, multi-national corporation simply cannot see that small. They don't even notice those numbers.

Why not?

Recap:

The retailer already bought xx number of bulk product at cost. GW just made their money.
100,000 boycotters world-wide stopped buying GW product and all they accomplished is taking $xx.xx a month out of their FLGS owner's pocket/mouth/hands/etc.


This thread (and all the ones before) aren't even in the same ballpark as the 100,000 person mark. These silly boycott threads, while all mooshy and retro-activist do absolutely no good. There might be around 50-60 of you, spread out across threads like this all over the globe, willing to stop buying GW stuff. Out of those 50-60 people, maybe 30 of them will actually stop buying. Out of those 30 psuedo-idealists, maybe 15 will stick to it for more than a month or so. Out of them, 10 of them likely just don't see anything they need/want right now.




Ghidorah

Gid, your so wrong it hurts just thinking about where you learned about buisness.
lets educate you a bit and pick an example.
tomb king on charriot box. (cause i have it handy withthe origional price and notes attached about the price)
(and these are actual numbers all confirmable except for #1 but you can make an educated guess using markup. )
buying and seller aside. heres where you go wrong.



this is a better discription.
1.GW manufactors a box at the rough cost of 6 €
2. GW then sets a sales price for retailers, in this case exactly 10.97€ (fact) (GW doesnt give deals for bulk buying. at least not in europe.)
3. Retailer buys it and adds his or her own markup, usually the price ends up as just over or under double of the buying price. (FACT all retailers do this, there are very few exceptions, period. (i confirmed this with 2 stores in canada and 1 store in austria) this is not called profit this is called mark up. profitt is something else entirely and there are much more factors, such as over head. (but lets not get bogged down here.)
4. box now costs 19.90€ (fact)

if 10 persons do not buy 10 new shiny boxes of tomb kings when they come out, then they sit in the shop (over head) no one makes a proffit but GW at this point, and now heres the thing. if no one buys the boxes, then there is no reason buy more boxes of tomb kings. so if 10 people HAD bought boxes then the store would probably have ordered in as stock was needed, maikng GW more money.

IF YOU boycott, you deniggh GW the chance to sell more stock period. so it works, you effect GW making money how ever small or large.

in the future please dont assume you know how GW, or any retailer makes money without checking it. its annoying.

It's best not to worry about. It's either that you are still connected to the GW bandwagon or you are not. Buying alternate and telling others about your bad experiences with GW is about all you can legally do to any effect. (tongue in cheek): you could always harrass the kids in GW with that sulphur based "stink" spray. I'm sure it'd only take 1 or 2 visits and parents would never let their kids near that "gamer stench" store again. 3 stores x many kids = impact

actually you could always target the 12 year olds, challenge them to a match and then sytimatically destroy them both on the feild and mentally till they roll into a ball on the floor. turn to next kid and say 'your next'
rinse and repeat till no kids come to the club. cut the play area off from the kids, kill GW proffit.

but thats mean.. and id never sink that low..... well ok there was that one time... but the kid kept buggy me... and well......

Targeting kids and parents is an excellent idea if you could find a proper way of doing it without harming the child in any way. no matter how sick GW is, WE cant screw with kids is what im saying..... parents however......

Maybe the starting point for action can be Black Library. Thinking about MULTILAZORS and Landraiderbacks maybe petition them to get in some proof readers to check their works before publishing. Decry the lack of quality.

Hawkins wrote:
this is a better discription.
1.GW manufactors a box at the rough cost of 6 €
2. GW then sets a sales price for retailers, in this case exactly 10.97€ (fact) (GW doesnt give deals for bulk buying. at least not in europe.)
3. Retailer buys it and adds his or her own markup, usually the price ends up as just over or under double of the buying price. (FACT all retailers do this, there are very few exceptions, period. (i confirmed this with 2 stores in canada and 1 store in austria) this is not called profit this is called mark up. profitt is something else entirely and there are much more factors, such as over head. (but lets not get bogged down here.)
4. box now costs 19.90€ (fact)

if 10 persons do not buy 10 new shiny boxes of tomb kings when they come out, then they sit in the shop (over head) no one makes a proffit but GW at this point, and now heres the thing. if no one buys the boxes, then there is no reason buy more boxes of tomb kings. so if 10 people HAD bought boxes then the store would probably have ordered in as stock was needed, maikng GW more money.

IF YOU boycott, you deniggh GW the chance to sell more stock period. so it works, you effect GW making money how ever small or large.

in the future please dont assume you know how GW, or any retailer makes money without checking it. its annoying.

The FLGS is impacted more than GW. The affected store now has dead stock sitting on their shelves affecting B: cash flow and B: bottom line. GW is better able to absorb losses in sales than the FLGS. No matter if the independant sells an alternative their bottom line is worse off than before (The store has to sell more than double the amount of alternatives to make up for the loss).

IF you need to satisfy your GW fix It would be better to Boycott GW stores and buy more from independant retailers FLGS, the internet etc.

absolutely. but a full boycott has a better impact. zero money = loss, as employees have to be paid, overhead, taxes. 20 other small things. so a full stop hurts, and GW has its own stores. im sure they rent at least in some places. its an avalanche effect.

the more people not buying every where, the more GW losses money.

(i can here the 'boycotts dont work' flamers and trolls a commin..... *gets out the popcorn*)

Hawkins wrote:Gid, your so wrong it hurts just thinking about where you learned about buisness.
lets educate you a bit and pick an example.
tomb king on charriot box. (cause i have it handy withthe origional price and notes attached about the price)
(and these are actual numbers all confirmable except for #1 but you can make an educated guess using markup. )
buying and seller aside. heres where you go wrong.



this is a better discription.
1.GW manufactors a box at the rough cost of 6 €
2. GW then sets a sales price for retailers, in this case exactly 10.97€ (fact) (GW doesnt give deals for bulk buying. at least not in europe.)
3. Retailer buys it and adds his or her own markup, usually the price ends up as just over or under double of the buying price. (FACT all retailers do this, there are very few exceptions, period. (i confirmed this with 2 stores in canada and 1 store in austria) this is not called profit this is called mark up. profitt is something else entirely and there are much more factors, such as over head. (but lets not get bogged down here.)
4. box now costs 19.90€ (fact)

if 10 persons do not buy 10 new shiny boxes of tomb kings when they come out, then they sit in the shop (over head) no one makes a proffit but GW at this point, and now heres the thing. if no one buys the boxes, then there is no reason buy more boxes of tomb kings. so if 10 people HAD bought boxes then the store would probably have ordered in as stock was needed, maikng GW more money.

IF YOU boycott, you deniggh GW the chance to sell more stock period. so it works, you effect GW making money how ever small or large.

in the future please dont assume you know how GW, or any retailer makes money without checking it. its annoying.

I believe this to be about what I heard from my FLGS.

I was told, to be taken with a grain of salt, by a friend who ran a FLGS here in Kalamazoo, Michigan that the mark-up profit of GW stuff is very little. GW sells the models at their wholesale price, which is high to begin with, and then has the mark-up price already figured out for the FLGS. This mark up between wholesale and retail is so little it almost does not make it worth carrying to begin with. Then on top of it GW wants you to order a certain monetary amount when you do order, not unreasonable. It does become unreasonable when what you make off the product is so little that just having them on the shelf is costing you money. So literally if GW stuff does not move fast enough the money has already been lost.

If you convince your FLGS wasting the space to carry GW products is costing them more money then they make off it they might be willing to stop. This will hurt GW and will open up shelf space for other products that will move more and not cost money just to sit on the shelf. This benefits the FLGS overall since now they can devote that space to something else that might move better then GW products.

Boycotting a FLGS will only really hurt, if it does hurt, the store for a short period. They have the option of just stop carrying the product which I am sure GW would love since they want to be all about their stores as your source for "GW fun".

Than the FLGS closes down if it's major source of profit was GW games and now people have no jobs.

Yes, such an awesome plan. Buy from the FLGS, just don't buy direct from GW as not buying from the brick and mortar hurts them more than it hurts GW to not buy at all.

ProtoClone wrote:

I believe this to be about what I heard from my FLGS.

I was told, to be taken with a grain of salt, by a friend who ran a FLGS here in Kalamazoo, Michigan that the mark-up profit of GW stuff is very little. GW sells the models at their wholesale price, which is high to begin with, and then has the mark-up price already figured out for the FLGS. This mark up between wholesale and retail is so little it almost does not make it worth carrying to begin with. Then on top of it GW wants you to order a certain monetary amount when you do order, not unreasonable. It does become unreasonable when what you make off the product is so little that just having them on the shelf is costing you money. So literally if GW stuff does not move fast enough the money has already been lost.

If you convince your FLGS wasting the space to carry GW products is costing them more money then they make off it they might be willing to stop. This will hurt GW and will open up shelf space for other products that will move more and not cost money just to sit on the shelf. This benefits the FLGS overall since now they can devote that space to something else that might move better then GW products.

Boycotting a FLGS will only really hurt, if it does hurt, the store for a short period. They have the option of just stop carrying the product which I am sure GW would love since they want to be all about their stores as your source for "GW fun".

Sorry, but you either heard wrong, or someone told you wrong. The info on the markup is wrong, the info on what GW wants you to order is wrong, and many FLGS make a large amount of money off of GW product. Convincing them it isn't is going to be tough if the owner has a even a small amount of brains.

GW product is sold to retailers in the US with a 45% profit margin. This is comparable with most manufacturers and distributors. 99% of the gaming product I recieve for my store has between a 40% and 50% profit margin.

If a store is making a profit on GW and you convince players to quit buying, or the manager to quit ordering, they will lose that profit. And lose it every single month from then on.

This benefits the FLGS overall since now they can devote that space to something else that might move better then GW products.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't feel like selling cocaine, which is about the only thing I could add that would sell better than GW.

You want to hurt GW, and are somehow convincing yourself that hurting your FLGS isn't really hurting them. Nice rationalzation.

Reality Check: The economy sucks, Game Stores have never been overly profitable, and many have already closed in the last year. If you want to support your store, convincing people to NOT BUy is not the answer. Rather than trying to hurt GW, why not go support Warmachine or Flames of War? Help your local store to sell more models, not necessarily GW. Just attacking GW at your local store wont help them.

It certainly wont "only really hurt, if it does hurt, the store for a short period"

Say you have a business and you have a CEO and that CEO just happens to have his home address listed and say you just mailed your complaints directly to his home as he is a registered voter and has to provide his mailing address in order to vote.


Just saying.

Well, maybe.

After the Great Purge of 09 - Others smarter than me have mentioned in a different thread that perhaps we could try actually communicating with GWS. Yes, I know that this has been tried before on an individual level. I'd like to see about doing it in a coordinated way as a community.

The way I see it, here are the steps we need to follow:

1.) Determine if this is even worth doing. Do we as a community even want to, as someone else put it, "Save GWS from themselves"? Rather then just swap to a different game.

I can't really think of another miniature game I'd want to switch too. Maybe FOW but there are not enough people playing that around here to make it worth my while. My FOW figs sit and collect dust.

2.) Determine as a group how much correspondence it would take to potentially make a statement, and aim for that much.

I think sending in a ton of emails/snail mails might help but as long as we as a community keep buying the product I can't see GW changing much. They may see things from a "if it's not broken, why fix it" perspective.

3.) Create a list of gripes. This should be short and easily read, with realistic goals. Issue perhaps would be: lower the price on plastic models (or stop creeping upwards), permit sites to create fan content if they carry a disclaimer, un-maul the LRB6, make a ruling on the deffrolla... I'm sure a few people have other ideas.

These gripes are valid indeed, but all in all I see 2009 as a great year for 40k gamers. I feel that Orks, IG, and SWs were all successes and the new models created for each new codex release were nice. I also think that we can not focus on getting individule rulings from GW on questions like the deff rolla, but we as a community should focus on prodding GW to put out an annual FAQ/rules update either in an issue of white dwarf or as a seperate book. I'd pay 25 dollars for the latest rules updates all combined into a single book that I can use at a casual game/tourney that could put an end to many rules queries that may come up in a game.

4.) Indicate that although this is not a boycott per se, our buying habits have been/will be influenced by their behavior towards the community at large.

Telling GW this will not be enough. We actually have to follow through. Frankly no matter how many times I have told myself that I would not take on any new projects I always go right back and make a purchase.

Just saying that you can get anyones actual mailing physical address from the office of voters registration in most states and its available online for most states now.

Just saying I'd be kind of more responsive to find out why 20 thousand letters showed up to my house instead of some online "petition".

May get a little more attention.

Also, not actually illegal in anyway at all that I know of its not illegal to send a letter to someone.

Hawkins wrote:absolutely. but a full boycott has a better impact. zero money = loss, as employees have to be paid, overhead, taxes. 20 other small things. so a full stop hurts, and GW has its own stores. im sure they rent at least in some places. its an avalanche effect.

the more people not buying every where, the more GW losses money.

(i can here the 'boycotts dont work' flamers and trolls a commin..... *gets out the popcorn*)

Any idea of just how many people it takes to make a boycott of any good work?

Lots. Lots and lots and lots. Indeed, quite possibly more than Han Solo can imagine. And much as I know I'm going to get flamed for this, sadly a website like Dakka, even Portent at it's height (4th largest Web Forum in the world if memory serves), wouldn't be able to get enough people to make a successful boycott.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't boycott, or 'lawlz, stop whinging'. Just pointing out that a boycott, without a significant majority on it's side isn't going to achieve anything. Such things need a great deal of people to commit to a sustained avoidance of product.

And nice attempt at demonising people who hold an alternate opinion by labelling them trolls and flameboys before they've even put finger to keyboard in response.

My personal take on what I'm doing to boycott is this:
(and this is how I've decided to show my dislike of recent practices by GW, you follow a certain cricket and let you conscience be your guide!)

In 2010 I am going to get into WM/Hordes and most likely Infinity miniatures, I will collect a team of each according to whichever finally grabs my colossal balls firmly enough. I will also buy miniatures 'for the love of the sculpts' and paint them up...

I will continue to play 40k and return to WHFB (since I've been missing it) and will build my armies from ebay second hand minis AND from companies other than GW - So Avatars of War, Gamezone Miniatures, Enigma and so on will be directly profiting from my purchases, again from nearby retailers if I can source them, online otherwise. I have already purchased all 3 of the Raging Heroes figures.

My wargaming is going to continue. My playing of Warhammer games will continue. GW however, will not profit from me whilst it maintains it's current stance and attitude.

And that's my arrangement, you do what best fits you.

Good gaming friends, happy to play alongside or against you.

Hollismason wrote:Just saying that you can get anyones actual mailing physical address from the office of voters registration in most states and its available online for most states now.

Just saying I'd be kind of more responsive to find out why 20 thousand letters showed up to my house instead of some online "petition".

May get a little more attention.

Also, not actually illegal in anyway at all that I know of its not illegal to send a letter to someone.

Only possible trouble could stem from organisation of such action. Harassment I guess. Dunno though, just speculating. Plus I don't think many courts would worry themselves as long as there were no threats or owt, just criticism.

1. The C&D storm can only be stopped by flagrant cases going to court, where GW will hopefully lose and fork out a scary sum on legal expenses.

2. Again, if you want better rule-making, GWs management are not the guys to speak to. Send your gripes to THE ONE (1) PERSON WRITING THE CODEX.

mikhaila wrote:

ProtoClone wrote:

I believe this to be about what I heard from my FLGS.

I was told, to be taken with a grain of salt, by a friend who ran a FLGS here in Kalamazoo, Michigan that the mark-up profit of GW stuff is very little. GW sells the models at their wholesale price, which is high to begin with, and then has the mark-up price already figured out for the FLGS. This mark up between wholesale and retail is so little it almost does not make it worth carrying to begin with. Then on top of it GW wants you to order a certain monetary amount when you do order, not unreasonable. It does become unreasonable when what you make off the product is so little that just having them on the shelf is costing you money. So literally if GW stuff does not move fast enough the money has already been lost.

If you convince your FLGS wasting the space to carry GW products is costing them more money then they make off it they might be willing to stop. This will hurt GW and will open up shelf space for other products that will move more and not cost money just to sit on the shelf. This benefits the FLGS overall since now they can devote that space to something else that might move better then GW products.

Boycotting a FLGS will only really hurt, if it does hurt, the store for a short period. They have the option of just stop carrying the product which I am sure GW would love since they want to be all about their stores as your source for "GW fun".

Sorry, but you either heard wrong, or someone told you wrong. The info on the markup is wrong, the info on what GW wants you to order is wrong, and many FLGS make a large amount of money off of GW product. Convincing them it isn't is going to be tough if the owner has a even a small amount of brains.

GW product is sold to retailers in the US with a 45% profit margin. This is comparable with most manufacturers and distributors. 99% of the gaming product I recieve for my store has between a 40% and 50% profit margin.

If a store is making a profit on GW and you convince players to quit buying, or the manager to quit ordering, they will lose that profit. And lose it every single month from then on.

This benefits the FLGS overall since now they can devote that space to something else that might move better then GW products.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't feel like selling cocaine, which is about the only thing I could add that would sell better than GW.

You want to hurt GW, and are somehow convincing yourself that hurting your FLGS isn't really hurting them. Nice rationalzation.

Reality Check: The economy sucks, Game Stores have never been overly profitable, and many have already closed in the last year. If you want to support your store, convincing people to NOT BUy is not the answer. Rather than trying to hurt GW, why not go support Warmachine or Flames of War? Help your local store to sell more models, not necessarily GW. Just attacking GW at your local store wont help them.

It certainly wont "only really hurt, if it does hurt, the store for a short period"

Reality check denied: You are right in that it would hurt the FLGS if they are making money off of the GW product. If they are not then it wouldn't hurt them to consider another product be it miniature or whatever.

If GW is selling good for you then don't listen to me, you seem to have gotten a head start , but if it isn't then it would seem wise to consider a different product. In a way I thought I had made the suggestion of replacing GW with a product that would sell as an alternative to just out right not taking your money there.

My suggestion is subject to opinion of course and you don't have to agree with it. Like I said I was going on what I was told by a former FLGS owner and what he had experienced...so he wasn't right, maybe.

My suggestion is subject to opinion of course and you don't have to agree with it. Like I said I was going on what I was told by a former FLGS owner and what he had experienced...so he wasn't right, maybe.

I listened to you. You're just wrong. The info about the discount and other things is way off.

You have second hand information from a owner of small, former, game store owner. Former being a key word, as he closed up, he's upset as anyone would be, and when he griped about something, you heard it, and suddenly it's gospel. "Heard it from a guy who owns a store" is only slightly above "Heard it from a Redshirt".

And yes, I recognize the irony inherent in the statement, since I'm just a "guy that owns a store". But you are hearing it first hand, I am currently in business, have two stores for the last 22 years, talk to several parts of GW US on a weekly basis, and have read and re-read all their terms of business. It's a major part of my business, so I pay very close attention to their business model, the rules on paper, and the rules that aren't on paper.

Let's look at your 'suggestion': Inform the owner of the FLGS that if GW isn't making him money, he should get rid of it and replace it with something else.

Fine, no arguements. A business needs to make money, and stocking a product that doesn't sell won't make them money, and ties up needed cash.

But... if he needs you to tell him that, he doesn't belong in business!

Please also go tell NFL linemen they need to block, and remind birds they need to flap their wings.

-------------

If you want to get rid of GW in a store, go for it. But don't do it by being destructive to your FLGS. Do it by building up other product lines. Go run painting classes, demos, games, leagues, etc for Flames of War, Warmachine, Infinity, whatever. Build up another game, and if GW drops to nothing, then you'll see it disappear.

But if you just go into a store, attack GW, you're not hurting GW-You're hurting your FLGS.

If you cause the store to lose 100.00 in sales, you might cost GW 5.00, and they'll never know. You also take 45.00 out of your FLGS pocket. Since it's probably a single owner, it's directly out of his paycheck. Repeat it enough, and he doesn't get a paycheck, and you lose a store.

Build up other games, don't tear down what's there already. You're pissed at GW, fine, but don't take it out on your local store.

mikhaila wrote:My suggestion is subject to opinion of course and you don't have to agree with it. Like I said I was going on what I was told by a former FLGS owner and what he had experienced...so he wasn't right, maybe.

I listened to you. You're just wrong. The info about the discount and other things is way off.

You have second hand information from a owner of small, former, game store owner. Former being a key word, as he closed up, he's upset as anyone would be, and when he griped about something, you heard it, and suddenly it's gospel. "Heard it from a guy who owns a store" is only slightly above "Heard it from a Redshirt".

And yes, I recognize the irony inherent in the statement, since I'm just a "guy that owns a store". But you are hearing it first hand, I am currently in business, have two stores for the last 22 years, talk to several parts of GW US on a weekly basis, and have read and re-read all their terms of business. It's a major part of my business, so I pay very close attention to their business model, the rules on paper, and the rules that aren't on paper.

Let's look at your 'suggestion': Inform the owner of the FLGS that if GW isn't making him money, he should get rid of it and replace it with something else.

Fine, no arguements. A business needs to make money, and stocking a product that doesn't sell won't make them money, and ties up needed cash.

But... if he needs you to tell him that, he doesn't belong in business!

Please also go tell NFL linemen they need to block, and remind birds they need to flap their wings.

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If you want to get rid of GW in a store, go for it. But don't do it by being destructive to your FLGS. Do it by building up other product lines. Go run painting classes, demos, games, leagues, etc for Flames of War, Warmachine, Infinity, whatever. Build up another game, and if GW drops to nothing, then you'll see it disappear.

But if you just go into a store, attack GW, you're not hurting GW-You're hurting your FLGS.

If you cause the store to lose 100.00 in sales, you might cost GW 5.00, and they'll never know. You also take 45.00 out of your FLGS pocket. Since it's probably a single owner, it's directly out of his paycheck. Repeat it enough, and he doesn't get a paycheck, and you lose a store.

Build up other games, don't tear down what's there already. You're pissed at GW, fine, but don't take it out on your local store.

Like I said in the beginning, "to be taken with a grain of salt" meaning I wasn't taking it as gospel. But it did seem to match what someone else has suggested. But you are telling me what I was told is wrong so it only confirms I should still take it with a grain of salt.

I just want to make it clear to you that I have heard you and considered your special position in this discussion. It does only confirm that maybe this guy I knew who had the FLGS may have had a wild hair up his arse but I am not sure. I may never be...

NP. Sorry for over reacting a bit. It's been way too many 100 hour weeks this season, and no chance to slow down in the future.

mikhaila wrote:NP. Sorry for over reacting a bit. It's been way too many 100 hour weeks this season, and no chance to slow down in the future.

Don't worry about it. =)

Ghidorah wrote:
Now then, GW makes it's money at step #2. Anything after step #2, GW doesn't know about, care about, worry about, or deal with. They are DONE with that particular batch of product now. Any purchases of GW product by an end user after step #2 is exactly the same. It doesn't matter if you buy it online, ebay, FLGS, next-door-neighbor, or trade for it on Bartertown. It's all the same to GW because they already made the money on every one of those sets/kits/models.

Not quite. Your examples are a little too simplistic. For example, if those 100 people you earlier talk about 10 stop buying, then short term the FLGS takes the hit, but then the FLGS(if he's smart) seeing the less demand, orders less stock of items that were going to said people, but now are not.

Further, if billy takes his marine army and puts it on ebay, and someone buys it, thats a ton less models GW just lost out on, to someone looking to start a marine army. Same with a trade site: if billy puts up his tyranids for trade and gets eldar back from Bobby, then both billy and bobby have new armies to play with, and GW saw none of that money for each starting a new army.

But GW don't lose out on the Ebay sale, as unless he models were stolen, the still have their wedge from it. Plus, there is an assumption that the person selling the models is leaving the Hobby, as opposed to clearing out an old army to aid in the purchase of a new one. Same goes for a trade swap of armies. Both armies have been paid for already, so the change of ownership simply does not damage GW at all. Indeed, it is entirely likely that having swapped, Billy and Bobby decide they'd like to make additions to their new force. Thus, going from armies they had lost interest in, or expanded to the point where they had all they wanted, there is now renewed chance of them buying from GW to add to their 'new' force.

As for the FLGS, as Mikhaila illustrates beautifully, if the 10 people joining a boycott just stop spending in the FLGS, then there is a very real risk of the shop going under. Instead, get them to channel their money into a different sysem, that way the FLGS is still supported, and it's GW losing out on a small bit of cash.

For Ebay's and Trades to work, one or both parties would have to be dealing in forged materials. Only then does GW see no money at any poiny. Otherwise the models have been bought and paid for, and since the trade doesn't increase the number of models in circulation, has no effect whatsoever.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:But GW don't lose out on the Ebay sale, as unless he models were stolen, the still have their wedge from it. Plus, there is an assumption that the person selling the models is leaving the Hobby, as opposed to clearing out an old army to aid in the purchase of a new one. Same goes for a trade swap of armies. Both armies have been paid for already, so the change of ownership simply does not damage GW at all. Indeed, it is entirely likely that having swapped, Billy and Bobby decide they'd like to make additions to their new force. Thus, going from armies they had lost interest in, or expanded to the point where they had all they wanted, there is now renewed chance of them buying from GW to add to their 'new' force.

By what standard do you think their not losing out? If billy buys an army on ebay, yes those models GW already has gotten, but GW is not getting any more money if they went to GW of a FLGS to buy the army new. GW loses out worse in a trade situation- instead of billy and bobby buyinga second army, which GW would make money on, their not making any money on a second army purchase.

The only benefit from expansion if they actually buy something. Chances are they may trade out for other things, or buy used at ebay. Either way GW loses.

Consider the 5K-6K of orks I now own: not a single model was purchased new. The bulk, including a stompa, was trade for some sisters I had purchased and gained ages ago, in 3rd-4th edition. PLus bulked out with other trades of marines and chaos and deamons gotten a while back in 4th.

GW lost out on ork sales. Sure the orks were bought earlier, as were the sisters, marines, chaos and deamons. But instead of folks buying new- instead of me buying a new ork army, instead I got it without laying out a cent to GW. No new sales, thats where it hurts.

They may not gain, but that is very different to losing. Who owns what, and how they got it, matters very little as long as the source isn't theft or forgery.

And GW did not, categorically, lose out on Ork sales. SOMEONE bought the Stompa etc you now own, so GW got their share. Unless there is some way of buying models from someone, where you both end up with one, then GW simply have not missed out.

Again, you are also making massive assumptions that those you traded with, be it goods or cash, did not then go on to either expand upon the models they now own, nor use any cash generated to fund a new army.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:They may not gain, but that is very different to losing. Who owns what, and how they got it, matters very little as long as the source isn't theft or forgery.

And GW did not, categorically, lose out on Ork sales. SOMEONE bought the Stompa etc you now own, so GW got their share. Unless there is some way of buying models from someone, where you both end up with one, then GW simply have not missed out.

Again, you are also making massive assumptions that those you traded with, be it goods or cash, did not then go on to either expand upon the models they now own, nor use any cash generated to fund a new army.

They aren't losing, but you are withholding your money from the company. You are making the decision as a consumer to not purchase from the company. You will be buying from someone who no longer wants the miniature.

Bah MDG, let people think that sellers on Ebay are using the money to buy movies and videogames and blow up dates.

Apparently everyone selling on ebay or trader sites intend to never buy GW again and those people trading are going to trade straight up and never expand (which may be so but I'm willing to bet most times it isn't).

Fateweaver wrote:Bah MDG, let people think that sellers on Ebay are using the money to buy movies and videogames and blow up dates.

Apparently everyone selling on ebay or trader sites intend to never buy GW again and those people trading are going to trade straight up and never expand (which may be so but I'm willing to bet most times it isn't).

I certainly don't object to other people doing what they want to with their money.

I will make the decision on what to do with my own.