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Good things have been said about chaos already, but at the risk of repeating things here are some from me, a longtime and disgruntled chaos marine:

C:CSM

Lords > eternal warrior, A4 base, page of options ala space wolf lords
Dreads > access to dreadclaws, crazed! result 1 = fire double at closest enemy if possible before closest friend (ala 4th edition)
Possessed > roll before the game begins
Power Armor Infantry > access to dreadclaws (as drop pod but does damage to enemy units that it lands on, before deviating to safely)
Cultists > new troops choice, fodder stats and points, led by chaos marine AC, infiltrates (ala DoW)
Bikers > +1A (ala 4th edition), cheaper
Raptors > cheaper
Defilers > AV13, small price hike acceptable

Sure I'd love oodles of options and more weird troops, but that short list would do it for me. If I only got three choices, it would be: 1) dreadclaws everywhere, 2) uber-ize lords, 3) cultists. The dreadclaw option for dreads would actually mitigate crazed! rolls of 1, as they'd either be stepping out of a dreadclaw, in combat or deep in the enemy's heart.

- Salvage

I would make boyz strength 4 and remove furious charge.

Necrons:

I played necrons before and I didn't like there was only one troop choice so I think that Flayed Ones would become troop choices

Dedrith wrote:I would make boyz strength 4 and remove furious charge.

Seems to be a very wanted change, GW hear our pleas!

EDCO Hunt wrote:Necrons:

I played necrons before and I didn't like there was only one troop choice so I think that Flayed Ones would become troop choices

Don't play necrons but i think it's a bit pants that there's only one troop chioce. Flayed ones are the fleshy ones with claws right? Good idea. Another thing that I'd think would be cool for necrons is a necron CC squad, with a gauss pistol (if it exists ATM) and a gauss CC weapon or something, perhaps it re-rolls to hit or has a -1 armour save modifier?

Black Templars:

High Marshal Hilbrandt should have Eternal Warrior.

Dreadnoughts should have the option for Plasma Cannons.

Troops/Elites should come with frags and kraks like the Codex: Space Marines.

Drop Pod Assault Rules (1/2 on turn one, rest on subsequent turns) like the Codex: Space Marines.

Reduced cost on Chaplains.

I'd LOVE to get sternguard with the different amunition.

Here is what i would like to see.
Basic Rule book
Eternal warrior activates on a 4+

Daemons
Perhaps allow the second half of the army to come in on turn 2, or some sorta ability that allows you to give +1 to reserve rolls

Eldar
More devastating psy powers(there the master of the warps, but the warp fearful space wolves out class them in warp power!???)

also giving back template weapons to warp spiders please

cheaper guardians, +1 bs to most everything else. From what i understand, shouldnt eldar be a super elite hit and run force? i beleive that eldar should be able to hit extremely hard but die to a stiff wind if they get caught.

Necrons
The Best anti psyker abilities in the game (this race is out to zap the warp from reality, but has 1 anti psyker option, and it sucks in every way)

as i constantly mentioned, rewording of the WBB rule that is not just slappin in FnP. The way i would like to see it is that it activates a the end of phase, before morale test are taking, and after that you calculate casualties for morale. this takes care of needing some sorta fearless/stubborn thing and keeps them unique.

New Nids
wings cheaper all around, and give a option for wings on the Alpha warrior and at least option for nades on a couple units.

Orks
A option for flash gits to get a upgrade to increase BS
More random weapons and vehicles
somehow incorporate Tellyportas

all i can thik of at the moment

tacooo wrote:
Eldar
More devastating psy powers(there the master of the warps, but the warp fearful space wolves out class them in warp power!???)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying too! Best psykers in the 40K universe and thier powers are not very good!? Most needed change for eldar, IMO.

Eldar Own wrote:

tacooo wrote:
Eldar
More devastating psy powers(there the master of the warps, but the warp fearful space wolves out class them in warp power!???)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying too! Best psykers in the 40K universe and thier powers are not very good!? Most needed change for eldar, IMO.

Well, another army who has incredibly weak psychic powers and isn't at all like that in the fluff are the GK, do you think the logic could work for both? Also, I agree with Tacooo. SW are way too OP in psychic powers.

On eldar, though: I'd make them more tricky, but less powerful with weapons. I'd even consider giving them AP3 S3 catapults instead of 12" assault bolters.

crazypsyko666 wrote:
On eldar, though: I'd make them more tricky, but less powerful with weapons. I'd even consider giving them AP3 S3 catapults instead of 12" assault bolters.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing the strength for less AP, but i think getting AP3 is unlikely.

Drop pod assault/ I really wish that it said may drop half instead having to drop half. Would make the drop pod a much better option I think so you're not dropping a bunch of pods onto an empty board.

These aren't exactly what I'd call necessary changes, but they are things that I think would make Orks a little more colorful.

If there were an option for Squiggoths to be used, possibly as a Monstrous Creature or the like, that would be pretty neat, as the only Squigs you see now are the Tankbusta Bomb-squigs. It's a bit of a shame, seeing as how Squigs and Squiggoths are described as being an ever-present part of the Ork ekosystem.

Possible Squiggoth Statline:
65 points
Elite, 1 Monstrous Creature (uses MC rules in 40K rulebook)
Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet of Foot
WS 5 BS 0 S 6 T 5 W 4 I 1 A3

Gains an additional +2 attacks on the charge rather than +1
Roll a D6 at the beginning of every turn; on a 1 the Squiggoth has gone beserk and rampages through the nearest unit, friend or foe. Automatically move the Squiggoth to the closest unit; treat the unit as it it has been Tank Shocked, but inflict 1d6 wounds (no armor saves, cover and invuln. saves apply) automatically at the Squiggoth's strength. If the unit fails the morale check, inflict another 1d6 wounds.

Increase the Armor on the Looted Wagon to F12 S12 B10. Keep everything else the same.

Standard changes to Flash Gits, like everyone else (Less points or More Dakka for free)

And just for fun, I'd like to see some rules for the Clans. If individual Space Marine chapters can get their own codex, then the Clans should have some kind of special rules attached. Here are my ideas.

Goffs: Have the ability to swap Fast Attack or Heavy Support slots for additional Troop slots on the FOC (i.e. no Fast Attack but 9 Troops options on the FOC). +1A.

Evil Sunz: May switch out 2 Troop slots for either 2 additional Fast Attack or 1 Heavy Support slot on the FOC. Embarked models may move and assault as normal after disembarking, but are at -1A and -1I in Assault if they do.

Bad Moons: Any Ork or vehicle with a Big Shoota may replace it with a Kustom Mega Blasta for no additional cost. Additionally, Ork Boy mobs may include 2 additional Big Shootas, Rokkit Launchas, Burnas (in the case of Kommandos), or KMBs for +10 points a model; this allows up to 4 heavy weapons per squad of Boyz.

Snakebites: +1 Toughness. May exchange up to 2 Fast Attack, Troops, or Heavy Support slots for 2 additional Elites slots on the FOC; may field Squiggoths in herds of 3 as a single Elite choice

Blood Axes: All units gain the Preferred Enemy special rule if playing against Space Marines, Imperial Guard, or Inquisitorial armies; may take up to 2 Kommandos as a Troops choice. All units gain the Move Through Cover and Counter Attack special rules.

Deathskulls: May choose to copy any 1 rule from any of the other Clans. If the army includes a Looted Wagon, you may use the rules for the vehicle that the Looted Wagon was made from instead of the standard Looted Wagon rules (i.e. a Looted Chimera may count as a Chimera rather than a Looted Wagon.) If done so, however, the looted vehicle's BS is reduced to 2 for all weapons.

Freebooters: Any Ork army that is a custom clan may choose 1 of the rules from another clan to count for their army. Additionally, they may choose from two of the following Freebooter-only rules (one if they have chosen a rule from another Clan):
- May exchange up to 2 Troops slots for 2 additional slots of Elites or Fast Attack, or 1 Heavy Support.
- May take Killa Kans or Dreadnoughts as Elites Choices as well as Heavy Support.
- May take Flash Gits as a Troops choice; additionally, may take Kaptin Badrukk as an HQ choice instead of an upgrade(treat as an IC)

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:
On eldar, though: I'd make them more tricky, but less powerful with weapons. I'd even consider giving them AP3 S3 catapults instead of 12" assault bolters.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing the strength for less AP, but i think getting AP3 is unlikely.

Well then why not AP4 S3?

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:
On eldar, though: I'd make them more tricky, but less powerful with weapons. I'd even consider giving them AP3 S3 catapults instead of 12" assault bolters.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing the strength for less AP, but i think getting AP3 is unlikely.

Well then why not AP4 S3?

I wouldn't mind this, as long as they kept assault. Maybe guardians could choose between the ones they have now and ones with S3 AP4?

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:
On eldar, though: I'd make them more tricky, but less powerful with weapons. I'd even consider giving them AP3 S3 catapults instead of 12" assault bolters.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing the strength for less AP, but i think getting AP3 is unlikely.

Well then why not AP4 S3?

I wouldn't mind this, as long as they kept assault. Maybe guardians could choose between the ones they have now and ones with S3 AP4?

I dunno, S4 seems a bit OP'd for a race that's supposed to be fairly weak in their S/T. I even think the Avatar is underpriced to an extent. (Just compare it to a Bloodthirster. You'll see what I mean.)

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:
On eldar, though: I'd make them more tricky, but less powerful with weapons. I'd even consider giving them AP3 S3 catapults instead of 12" assault bolters.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing the strength for less AP, but i think getting AP3 is unlikely.

Well then why not AP4 S3?

I wouldn't mind this, as long as they kept assault. Maybe guardians could choose between the ones they have now and ones with S3 AP4?

I dunno, S4 seems a bit OP'd for a race that's supposed to be fairly weak in their S/T. I even think the Avatar is underpriced to an extent. (Just compare it to a Bloodthirster. You'll see what I mean.)

Racial S/T has nothing to do with weapon S. i'd like to see shuriken catapults become S3 with rending personally.
And an Avatar gets shot alot more before charging, Bloodthirsters can appear from nowhere within spitting distance of an enemy, maybe thats what your paying points for hmm?

i would give sternguard BS 5 and vanguard WS 5. i know this would be unfair but considering their storylines they really should have it.

taylorton147 wrote:i would give sternguard BS 5 and vanguard WS 5. i know this would be unfair but considering their storylines they really should have it.

Yeah but then you'd have to increase the BS and WS of the captians and then off the higher BS and WS army's leaders and basically everything.

dayve110 wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:
On eldar, though: I'd make them more tricky, but less powerful with weapons. I'd even consider giving them AP3 S3 catapults instead of 12" assault bolters.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing the strength for less AP, but i think getting AP3 is unlikely.

Well then why not AP4 S3?

I wouldn't mind this, as long as they kept assault. Maybe guardians could choose between the ones they have now and ones with S3 AP4?

I dunno, S4 seems a bit OP'd for a race that's supposed to be fairly weak in their S/T. I even think the Avatar is underpriced to an extent. (Just compare it to a Bloodthirster. You'll see what I mean.)

Racial S/T has nothing to do with weapon S. i'd like to see shuriken catapults become S3 with rending personally.
And an Avatar gets shot alot more before charging, Bloodthirsters can appear from nowhere within spitting distance of an enemy, maybe thats what your paying points for hmm?

Hold on, lemme get my box



Yes, but the Avatar of Khaine outclasses the Bloodthirster in so many ways.
WS: Even,
BS: Avatar by +1,
S: Bloodthirster by+1,
T: Even,
W: Even,
I: Avatar by +1,
A: Bloodthirster by +1,
Ld: Even
Sv: Even
With ranged attacks, for a lesser power, (S7 AP2 on a BS4 IC) add +20 points to the Bloodthirster (which could buy me another Bloodletter) is lesser by 1 stat value in both ways to an ability the Avatar gets for free. Did I mention the Avatar gets the highest chance to attack first, given that the Bloodthirster can't charge when he warps in? However, the biggest problem I have with the Avatar (and the whole reason for this rant) Is that the Avatar costs 155 points. A blood thirster with the appropriate upgrades to put him on-par (deathstrike) with the Avatar's other abilities makes him 270 points. that's 115 points in the Eldar's favor, which is almost enough to buy another Avatar of Khaine.

Unfair? I think so.

Okay, now that I'm done with my rant, I'd like to mention that the only place where the bloodthirster really shines (and Khornezilla in general) is when you give it wings. Khornezilla can be one of the most mobile Daemon force in existence.

Forgive me if someone has already said this: I wish that they would say explicitly that Shrike gives whatever unit he is with the infiltrate USR so the ing rules lawyers would shut up and leave me alone

I think we all can agree the #1 thing to change in all codexes is official clarification of rules.

crazypsyko666 wrote:I think we all can agree the #1 thing to change in all codexes is official clarification of rules.

Yup.

crazypsyko666 wrote:
Yes, but the Avatar of Khaine outclasses the Bloodthirster in so many ways.
WS: Even,
BS: Avatar by +1,
S: Bloodthirster by+1,
T: Even,
W: Even,
I: Avatar by +1,
A: Bloodthirster by +1,
Ld: Even
Sv: Even
With ranged attacks, for a lesser power, (S7 AP2 on a BS4 IC) add +20 points to the Bloodthirster (which could buy me another Bloodletter) is lesser by 1 stat value in both ways to an ability the Avatar gets for free. Did I mention the Avatar gets the highest chance to attack first, given that the Bloodthirster can't charge when he warps in? However, the biggest problem I have with the Avatar (and the whole reason for this rant) Is that the Avatar costs 155 points. A blood thirster with the appropriate upgrades to put him on-par (deathstrike) with the Avatar's other abilities makes him 270 points. that's 115 points in the Eldar's favor, which is almost enough to buy another Avatar of Khaine.

Unfair? I think so.

So i have +2 on your stats and you have +2 on mine, pretty equal if you ask me so there is no outclassing there.
If you play a Bloodthirster appropriately you can warp in behind cover and still get to charge with a full compliment of wounds.
Where as the Avatar must slog it across the board taking lascannons to the face.
Not to mention that you can get into combat much faster than i can so get to kill more units.
These facts alone are IMO worth the points increase, if i had an avatar with wings that could DS then i'd expect them to be the same cost. As it is the Avatar is incredibly slow and usually gets shot to pieces if the opponent knows what's good for them.

Does the Bloodthirster have a 3+ armour sv and a 4+ invulnerable? As I'm 70% sure that the avatar does.

dayve110 wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:
Yes, but the Avatar of Khaine outclasses the Bloodthirster in so many ways.
WS: Even,
BS: Avatar by +1,
S: Bloodthirster by+1,
T: Even,
W: Even,
I: Avatar by +1,
A: Bloodthirster by +1,
Ld: Even
Sv: Even
With ranged attacks, for a lesser power, (S7 AP2 on a BS4 IC) add +20 points to the Bloodthirster (which could buy me another Bloodletter) is lesser by 1 stat value in both ways to an ability the Avatar gets for free. Did I mention the Avatar gets the highest chance to attack first, given that the Bloodthirster can't charge when he warps in? However, the biggest problem I have with the Avatar (and the whole reason for this rant) Is that the Avatar costs 155 points. A blood thirster with the appropriate upgrades to put him on-par (deathstrike) with the Avatar's other abilities makes him 270 points. that's 115 points in the Eldar's favor, which is almost enough to buy another Avatar of Khaine.

Unfair? I think so.

So i have +2 on your stats and you have +2 on mine, pretty equal if you ask me so there is no outclassing there.
If you play a Bloodthirster appropriately you can warp in behind cover and still get to charge with a full compliment of wounds.
Where as the Avatar must slog it across the board taking lascannons to the face.
Not to mention that you can get into combat much faster than i can so get to kill more units.
These facts alone are IMO worth the points increase, if i had an avatar with wings that could DS then i'd expect them to be the same cost. As it is the Avatar is incredibly slow and usually gets shot to pieces if the opponent knows what's good for them.

I do tend to believe that initiative is the most important stat in the game, however (In a CC unit) and given an Eldar army, with Eldrad I've seen a guardian squad take out a bloodthirster in a single round of shooting. I don't think they should have that kind of CC power if they can just SHOOT IT to the ground. Also, putting it behind cover isn't always an option, give that it's an MC that's larger than most structures. Have you ever played with Demons? It's really not as simple as you try to make it sound. The difference that I've given that really pisses me off is the points. Oh, and Bloodthirster is one of the largest gun-magnets available in the game. Given that it's not a tank, it's a magnet for EVERY gun in the game. It looks and sounds far more imposing than an Avatar of Khaine, let me tell you, and given its size, not that hard to shoot at.

This is just my opinion, take it however you want. Actually, the only thing I'd change in the Bloodthirster is to give it hellblades. The Avatar just needs about a +30 points increase, IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

phantommaster wrote:Does the Bloodthirster have a 3+ armour sv and a 4+ invulnerable? As I'm 70% sure that the avatar does.

They both do. Bloodthirster has Iron Hide and the standard Daemon inv. save. Avatar comes with the same thing.

Maybe not 30pts, a little less.

Eldar Own wrote:Maybe not 30pts, a little less.

25?

crazypsyko666 wrote:
I do tend to believe that initiative is the most important stat in the game, however (In a CC unit) and given an Eldar army, with Eldrad I've seen a guardian squad take out a bloodthirster in a single round of shooting. I don't think they should have that kind of CC power if they can just SHOOT IT to the ground. Also, putting it behind cover isn't always an option, give that it's an MC that's larger than most structures. Have you ever played with Demons? It's really not as simple as you try to make it sound. The difference that I've given that really pisses me off is the points. Oh, and Bloodthirster is one of the largest gun-magnets available in the game. Given that it's not a tank, it's a magnet for EVERY gun in the game. It looks and sounds far more imposing than an Avatar of Khaine, let me tell you, and given its size, not that hard to shoot at.

This is just my opinion, take it however you want. Actually, the only thing I'd change in the Bloodthirster is to give it hellblades. The Avatar just needs about a +30 points increase, IMO.

Eldrad is 210 points, guardian squad is 80 minimum +support weapon cost (which you must take) so at 290 minimum points, i'd expect them to kill a bloodthirster. If you can't hide something behind a building you need better terrain, at the FLGS there are several multi-story buildings and ruins able to conceal a bloodthirster. BTW i have played with deamons, and if the opponent wasted a turn of shooting taking out one thing it only means my troops will be ripping them to shreds in my turn.

Orks
Change don't press that! to either the vehicle can't move or shoot that turn; 1-3 cannot move, 4-6 cannot shoot
Give the option for a bosspole on both flashgitz and meganobz
Lower the price of flashgitz, or keep the price the same but include some of the bonuses in their profile or have snazzguns count as twin linked, thanks to the sheer amount of firepower spewing forth, jsut something
Change Glory Hogs to must shoot, or assault the nearest vehicle IF IN RANGE, and give them tank hunter back
Give the option to put snotlings in grot herdz, WS2 BS0 S2 T2 W1 I1 Ld4 no wargear, changing the name to runt herdz and change runtherdz back to slavers
Update the wording of WAAAGH!!!! and prophet of the WAAAGH!!! to make them less ambiguous(sp?) in the 5th edition
Put burnas as a heavy weapon choice in boy mobs, 15 points seems reasonable, but not allowing a mix and match of heavy weapons
The choice to give a Big Mek a deffkopta for 25-35 points
Not all of these things, just a few would be cool.
EDIT: Drop pods in the form of roks with 3D6 scatter 2D6 casualties per drop and the special rule of 2D6 S7 ap- hits on any unit or vehicle they hit as a dedicated troop choice for boyz mobs, also no guns on them as i doubt they would survive entering the atmosphere

Tau
Give kroot Stealth, and change Kroot guns to Assault 1 weapons or give them fleet, their meant to be stealthy cc troops, not shoot or run or assault troops
Update all the target priority test garbage out of the codex
lower the cost of fire warriors, or give an upgrade for +1 bs, or give them defensive grenades standard
Make vespid not suck, i'm not sure how to do this but they need a major overhaul
Make the gun drones off of vehicles not count as another killpoint once the vehicle is popped
Give the option to replace a gun drone on a vehicle with a shield drone to give the vehicle an obscured save one turn a game like a smoke launcher
Lower the cost of stealth suits 5 points mabye

Only two armies i play reasonably often but i know necrons and DE just plain need new codexes, and the inquisition could use new ones as well, so i don't expect my armies to get new codexes anytime soon.

DE Scourges gain Relentless... Splinter Rifles become 18" Assault 2... Hellions have Punishers... Mandrakes equipped with pistols and scissorhands...

And that didn't even require a 10+ year codex to write

I would echo the sentiment of DiscoVader/number9dream regarding clan-specific powers for Orks - they would work in a similar way to BT Emperors Champion vows, in that they would each have a points cost. A Freebooterz warband could purchase any two Clan marks.

Just a few ideas for a couple of them:

Evil Sunz:
Faster! FASTER!!!: All vehicles count as having RPJ, including Bikes and Deffkoptas.

Bad Moons:
Wall of Dakka: Each firing unit gets D6(or D3?) extra shots in the Shooting phase. The extra shots are resolved using the profile of the most numerous weapon in the unit.

Goffs:
Smash Dem!: When assaulting, all Ork units gain an extra +1 Attack, in addition to any other normal bonuses.

Deathskulls:
Blue Warpaint: All ork units get an invulnerable save of 6+.

Snakebites:
Savage Orks: Yeah, +1 toughness is cool. Maybe Fearless? Substitutes Biker units for Boar Boyz.

BloodAxes:
Sneaky Gitz: 'Move Through Cover' is a good idea - how about +1 Initiative?

I would also like to see some version of the following Battlewagon upgrade:

Grot Turret: 1 Big Shoota Turret per Battlewagon may take a grot turret - this increases the BS of the Big Shoota in question to BS3. In addition, I would make all Big Gunz upgrades automatically count as 'Grot Turrets', giving them BS3.

In addition, I would like to see Burna Boyz be more effective vs Vehicles in CC. The fluff states that they are used to slice through vehicle hulls, but in practice this is nigh on impossible. How about giving them 2D6 for amour penetration when using the Cutting Flame in CC against a vehicle?


As I said, just a few thoughts.