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Well that is why i haven't bought a single wraithguard yet.

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Sheck2 wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Not only are they the same price but with more options but they are plastic which is a lot better than metal IMO. They'll be easier to assemble and convert. I'll probably add some to my upcoming army, after a Trygon of course.

Kurgash wrote:I don't know whether to be excited or meh. Yay new plastic tomb spyder, possibly monstrous size now. Boo all these rumors of GW rethinking Necrons in their entirety, fluff and all. Yay for new concept art which could mean a new codex is along the way sometime. /wrists for Jerkoff Johnson being mentioned along with Necrons and fluff.

The necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

BrookM wrote:Waaay too much of a wishlist for the most part.

I agree

ShumaGorath wrote: necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

The first one is contradictory, but i don't see how curing cancer relates to interstellar travel. It's entirely possible for a culture to put more research into one field of science than another. Yes, it's unlikely that an advanced civilisation would only have a level of medicine comparable to our own, but not directly contradictory.

In my opinion, the Necron Fluff doesn't need a reimagining, but it definitely needs a clean-up. Stuff about affecting humanities genetics 60 million (or is it 600 million?) years before the current timeline simply makes no sense, as the evolution of humanity would be impossible to predict or even affect so far in the past.

(ps, Shuma - This is the contradiction you should use for an example. If they can fiddle with our genetics to create the pariahs, 59 million, 950 thousand years before we evolve, they can modify their own genes to increase resistance to radiation and cancer.)

Vladsimpaler wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:T-Hawk? Hmm...

I bet you that they pull a Space Hulk with this one..

"No, it's not a Thunder Hawk, we promise!"

"Surprise! LOL

Oh btw we only have a limited #...until we find some in our warehouse. "

Quoted for truth.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kurgash wrote:I don't know whether to be excited or meh. Yay new plastic tomb spyder, possibly monstrous size now. Boo all these rumors of GW rethinking Necrons in their entirety, fluff and all. Yay for new concept art which could mean a new codex is along the way sometime. /wrists for Jerkoff Johnson being mentioned along with Necrons and fluff.

The necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

Re-write the C'tan a bit, yeah. Keep the same image the Necrons have of soulless killing machines that are slowly waking up all over the imperium and harvesting the populace to feed their gods and maybe work in some new CC units, like flayed ones mixed with tomb spyder bodies, that would just be crazy as hell

Eldar Own wrote:NEW ORK DREADS!! I dont like the models at the moment. It better be plastic !!!!!!

Can you put a month on this? If its relatively early, i wont bother with my SM dread conversion, but i'll go ahead with it if its later on.

Smart money is on March - GW said they'd be releasing new Ork, Guard, and Marine kits with the release of Battle Missions.

Brother SRM wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:NEW ORK DREADS!! I dont like the models at the moment. It better be plastic !!!!!!

Can you put a month on this? If its relatively early, i wont bother with my SM dread conversion, but i'll go ahead with it if its later on.

Smart money is on March - GW said they'd be releasing new Ork, Guard, and Marine kits with the release of Battle Missions.

Brilliant!! Thanks Brother SRM. I've heard of the battle missions release. I may still do a conversion though, it'll be cool to have a fully converted model.

Eldar Own wrote:

Sheck2 wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Not only are they the same price but with more options but they are plastic which is a lot better than metal IMO. They'll be easier to assemble and convert. I'll probably add some to my upcoming army, after a Trygon of course.

And this is why GW is charging high prices for their plastics because they know many people will buy them no matter what. Yes they are in plastic, but they should be so much cheaper than what GW is charging for. GW have said numerous time, when then can do things in plastic, the prices will be so much cheaper, instead of just saving pennies. We are saving what? $5 or so than buying 3 individual metals. It's just price gouging, and price gouging just pisses me off. Not shure if I will be getting them or not.

Davor wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

Sheck2 wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Not only are they the same price but with more options but they are plastic which is a lot better than metal IMO. They'll be easier to assemble and convert. I'll probably add some to my upcoming army, after a Trygon of course.

And this is why GW is charging high prices for their plastics because they know many people will buy them no matter what. Yes they are in plastic, but they should be so much cheaper than what GW is charging for. GW have said numerous time, when then can do things in plastic, the prices will be so much cheaper, instead of just saving pennies. We are saving what? $5 or so than buying 3 individual metals. It's just price gouging, and price gouging just pisses me off. Not shure if I will be getting them or not.

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

ShumaGorath wrote:

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

Even if plastic would be more expensive, plastic models weight much less than metal ones

ergotoxin wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

Even if plastic would be more expensive, plastic models weight much less than metal ones

Your right, I should of used a volume measurement.

Tin is just shy of ~8 dollars a pound right now, pewter is primarily tin. Oils hanging around 80 dollars a barrel (I can't find how much a barrel weighs, but I get the feeling it's more than 80 pounds). It'a ll kind of academic though, I can't seem to find the direct cost of plastics or pewter so I have no idea.

ShumaGorath wrote:

ergotoxin wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

Even if plastic would be more expensive, plastic models weight much less than metal ones

Your right, I should of used a volume measurement.

Tin is just shy of ~8 dollars a pound right now, pewter is primarily tin. Oils hanging around 80 dollars a barrel (I can't find how much a barrel weighs, but I get the feeling it's more than 80 pounds). It'a ll kind of academic though, I can't seem to find the direct cost of plastics or pewter so I have no idea.

From wiki: * Oil barrel: 42 US gallons, 158.9873 litres,[6] or 34.9723 Imperial (UK) gallons

If I count right oil should be a lot cheaper than pewter, but on the other side we have no idea about the costs of oil procession and plastic production. So I guess we should better get back on topic

while i agree that plastic minis *should* be cheaper than metal equivalents (and GW used to agree as this was one of their big metal to plastic conversion selling points), i'm not sure comparing the prices of oil in a barrel (which needs to be highly processed to get to the polystyrene plastic we actually see in the end product) and pewter (which is just poured into a mold and spun) is helpful. technically, the big rock outside my window and the kitchen countertop are made of the same thing but that doesn't meant that they have anything close to a same relative worth.

warboss wrote:while i agree that plastic minis *should* be cheaper than metal equivalents (and GW used to agree as this was one of their big metal to plastic conversion selling points), i'm not sure comparing the prices of oil in a barrel (which needs to be highly processed to get to the polystyrene plastic we actually see in the end product) and pewter (which is just poured into a mold and spun) is helpful. technically, the big rock outside my window and the kitchen countertop are made of the same thing but that doesn't meant that they have anything close to a same relative worth.

Good point, perhaps this is a better cost comparison, a bag of plastic army men cost around $2.00 and usually contains 50 soilders,and are roughly the same size as your average 40k troop choice,wich comparitivly cost between $25.00 and $35.00 a box,containing 10 minis,now of course their exsist some qaulity differences,design diffences and such.
But if we are to look at the simple raw materials and amounts used,surely GW is marking their prices WAY up.

FITZZ wrote:Good point, perhaps this is a better cost comparison, a bag of plastic army men cost around $2.00 and usually contains 50 soilders,and are roughly the same size as your average 40k troop choice,wich comparitivly cost between $25.00 and $35.00 a box,containing 10 minis,now of course their exsist some qaulity differences,design diffences and such.

'Some' quality differences is understating it somewhat.

GW is paying for design, sculpting, mould-making, and casting of multi-part, highly detailed plastic kits, which has to pay for itself over a comparatively short lifespan before being replaced by the next hotness.
The company producing your bag of plastic army men is (in most cases) paying for the casting (in China or Taiwan) of a single-part sculpt that was originally made in the 1970's, by either buying out the moulds from the last company to produce them, or simply grabbing a pack of a competing company's soldiers and making a mould off them. No expensive design or sculpting stage, minimal production costs, cheaper material (since they use a lower-grade plastic), cheaper packaging, and no promotional costs.


Miniatures' value is down to far more than just the cost of the materials.

I understand your points Insaniak,and agree with most of them.
My initial point was simply concerning material cost,and true the makers of "little green army men" do use a lower grade plastic and of course that is reflected in the super low cost.
However,the direction of previous post seemed to be that of cost of raw materials,and when that is the factor taken into account (GWs packaging and promotional cost not withstanding) I still can't help but belive that their kits,no matter how nice,are just a tad pricey.

So has anyone any idea what is involved in 'plastic crisis suit redo'?

Are they going to release the forgeworld crisis suits in plastic (come oooooon hazard suit) or add more components to the kit or recast the entire crisis suit or simply add in another one or two special chars?

Hopefully it's an across the board overhaul, i'm sick to death of cutting and greenstuffing the knee joints...

Firstly: If we're going to see "plastic Crisis suit redo", it wouldn't be the Hazard suit...unless they add the Hazard suit into the main codex as a Commander/Bodyguard option.

Most likely? We'll either see a rerelease of the Commander box, with the special issue weapons done in plastic
OR
We'll see a scanned, plastic CAD version of the XV-89 and its variants.

My fingers are crossed for the second. The XV-89 is gorgeous and makes me want to do Tau everytime I see it.

Hopefully it will be based on one of the actual pieces of concept artwork, all of which are better than what they decided on. Or at least it will hopefully have proportions that actually follow the art in the codex.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kurgash wrote:I don't know whether to be excited or meh. Yay new plastic tomb spyder, possibly monstrous size now. Boo all these rumors of GW rethinking Necrons in their entirety, fluff and all. Yay for new concept art which could mean a new codex is along the way sometime. /wrists for Jerkoff Johnson being mentioned along with Necrons and fluff.

The necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

Why do people keep saying the c'tan eat souls? Nowhere in the fluff does it state that, and in fact states the exact opposite, that when the C'tan consume life the souls are cast adrift in the warp, making a feast for random warp entities. The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

ShumaGorath wrote:Hopefully it will be based on one of the actual pieces of concept artwork, all of which are better than what they decided on. Or at least it will hopefully have proportions that actually follow the art in the codex.

Ditto that. I love crisis suits, but the current ones are much too squat and blocky.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Incorrect. The current ones are $20 each in blisters, so the new ones are less expensive. However, some of us might consider any model that you want many of in order to make large units expensive at $15 or $20 each.

Additionally, if Wraithguard are considered expensive at $15 each, why wouldn't Raveners be considered expensive at $15 each? It's all relative. What's expensive to one person may not be to another, but in general as you can see from other posts here, many hobbyists consider models that are purchased in quantity for squads to be quite expensive if they are $15 or $20 each. In fact, depending on the models, some things that are considerably less expensive are considered too expensive by a large number of hobbyists, like the Greatswords mentioned earlier. It depends on the models and the general conscensus of the hobby community, doesn't it?

Why do people keep saying the c'tan eat souls? Nowhere in the fluff does it state that, and in fact states the exact opposite, that when the C'tan consume life the souls are cast adrift in the warp, making a feast for random warp entities. The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

People just assume souls because "life energy" is an utterly idiotic concept when separated from the concept of the warp or souls.

I think we got the point there BrassScorpion (JK)

The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

Yeah, and Superman is better than Batman and Kirk is better than Picard. Honestly, what does this "nerd fight" over background material have to do with news and rumors about new models in 2010?

BrassScorpion wrote:

The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

Yeah, and Superman is better than Batman and Kirk is better than Picard. Honestly, what does this "nerd fight" over background material have to do with news and rumors about new models in 2010?

Not a heck of a lot.

This 'rumor' had a lot of wishlisting in it to begin with.

Please keep this rather thin reed on topic...