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MadNes wrote:As far as gameplay, you may be able to find out for yourself.

http://forum.ex-illis.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2572&p=12807#p12807

This thread mentions bastion kicking around the idea of a 30 day free trial. Pop on and tell them ur interested.

so... you apparently have to "activate" your minis online with a code. what happens when you sell your minis on the secondary market like the swap shop here? can the other person use them or are the models just really ineffective paper weights? the thread mentions that stolen units can't be reregistered to another person due to the code being necessary so i'm assuming used sold ones have the same problem. Does the person have to keep every code just in case they sell their armies at a later date? can the code be "transferred" to the new user? i'm assuming that they can't reuse those codes (just like with electronic game DLC) since nothing would stop people from just posting them online and having multiple people use the same one. the models have little to no secondary value to gamers if they can't be resold to others.

You know I will. Athough, if I were smart, I would stop subjecting myself to all this flak. Guess I'm a massochist.

You n me both.

warboss wrote:
so... you apparently have to "activate" your minis online with a code.

I am suddenly completely devoid of interest in this game system. Thanks all!

Serial numbers are a stumbling block. I've checked out the software and well, can't do diddly.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

warboss wrote:
so... you apparently have to "activate" your minis online with a code.

I am suddenly completely devoid of interest in this game system. Thanks all!

I was taken aback by that as well, especially because I buy so many of my gaming figures secondhand. I'm interested in this hybrid game system, and the fluff seems appealing, but if I have to use brand new and official miniatures... That's simply not interesting enough to me anymore. What if I want to use a different proxy figure or create something unique of my own? The most fun I have outside of game-play is assembling and building miniatures, and if that's being restricted the game loses a lot.

Maybe we're missing something however and the above assumption isn't truly the case?

Also, MadNes, thanks for putting up with the all too common BS of this board to talk about this game. Like the game or not I find it informative and interesting and I would hope others do too. So thanks, and please do continue to keep us updated on the state of the game and models.

Activation codes are used to keep track of units for the purpose of - assigning battlepoints, renoun, the leveling system and spec'ing. They also work with the mustering program.

The whole point of the thread I linked to is; a user is asking about these issues, and bastion addressing them. If you read carefully, they are aware of these concerns and plan to address them in time.

Bastion gives you -
The rules
The army creation software
The fluff
The unit tacticas (read as codex)
The game software
(and soon) trial codes to proxy models

I don't think registering units is unfair. Especially at that price point.


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Neconilis wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

warboss wrote:
Also, MadNes, thanks for putting up with the all too common BS of this board to talk about this game. Like the game or not I find it informative and interesting and I would hope others do too. So thanks, and please do continue to keep us updated on the state of the game and models.

Thanks brother. Appreciate it.

MadNes wrote:Activation codes are used to keep track of units for the purpose of - assigning battlepoints, renoun, the leveling system and spec'ing. They also work with the mustering program.

The whole point of the thread I linked to is; a user is asking about these issues, and bastion addressing them. If you read carefully, they are aware of these concerns and plan to address them in time.

**snip***

I don't think registering units is unfair. Especially at that price point.

neither do i, as long as that registration is FULLY TRANSFERABLE. trying to kill the secondary market by making the online portion of the game mandatory AND not allowing used figs to transfer their online licenses would be a HUGE mistake. i realize the thinking behind this (used game sales don't benefit the company directly) but alot of gamers will see that as unreasonable.

listen, i appreciate you trying to answer the questions being raised here but you're getting something wrong in your zeal to defend the game you love... comments about a lack of detail on a giant base posted as advertising is NOT bs when it's the general consensus across different forums... taking offense at a company calling it's future userbase elitist nerds is NOT bs... bringing up the fact that the current company policy of mandatory online activation of minis making used models useless if it's nontransferable is NOT bs. you're the OP and an enthusiatic fanboi (not meant as an insult btw) and not an employee of the company... you've been involved with the game and its playtesting for a while and i think your enthusiasm is clouding your objectivity... either way, you shouldn't have to be addressing these issues. the company should have forseen them and addressed them PRIOR to releasing the game and publicizing it. this game may very well be the best game ever in terms of mechanics and more fun than mud wrestling megan fox... but some gamers will never give it a chance because of the company's corporate decisions.

we're all passionate about toy soldiers here... that's why we come to post on dakka. alot of us have played a ton of different games and seen companies come and go from the market... it's not hard for us to see what we consider the flaws in the company's strategy that THEY should have addressed and you're an unfortunately casualty in this. it's not too late to change these things so we'll see if they decide to listen to the complaints...

I can pledge that MadNes is not an Ex illis employee, I am. I thought this was obvious when I posted but I can understand the confusion. Although sometimes I feel he's doing a better job than I am.

We understand that our message have been misunterpreted, and we are sorry if anyone has felt offended. We have never meant to insult anyone.
That sentence on the wiki was far from reflecting our vision and the whole idea behind Ex illis.

The sentence has been corrected on our website. The wiki is still in Beta stage, there is A LOT of material on there, with our limited staff we didn’t have time to proofread everything yet, we are working hard on it, and this mistake definitely slipped our attention; thank you for your understanding.

What SHOULD be there is to say that Ex illis is about sharing; sharing the passion of wargaming with families and friends, sharing an awesome tactical moment against a good adversary, sharing a narrative universe to set your battles in. You know we could have made a video game or any other game you can play alone, against yourself or a computer, but we decided to build something much bigger and more involving that you don’t want to play alone. This is how we love to play and this is how we would like you to play Ex illis.

Since the concept is not exactly standard, it’s hard to make a mind about the game without seeing it, which is a shame because 90% of the critizisms come from people who never held an Ex illis miniature in their hands. And while we don’t pretend things are perfect, we’re quite proud of the game we made! If some of you will be at Gen Con (or similar events, we participate to quite a few) and like ask us a question or try the game, we’d love to meet you and have a good chat.

Having a (or several) good demo(s) is key to be able to « get » what Ex illis is all about, and that it might actually be a really fun game to play. Heck there are lots of players out there playing it and loving it, our good MadNes being a perfect example, so they must be up to something…


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warboss wrote: as long as that registration is FULLY TRANSFERABLE. trying to kill the secondary market by making the online portion of the game mandatory AND not allowing used figs to transfer their online licenses would be a HUGE mistake. i realize the thinking behind this (used game sales don't benefit the company directly) but a lot of gamers will see that as unreasonable.

I can reassure you, the second market issue is a concern for us too, and you don't have to worry, miniatures will be fully transferable with their registration code.

I didn't call it BS someone else did

I don't have to answer these questions, I choose to; A) I AM a fanboi of the game B) I enjoy the discussion. Sometimes, it does seem like people are pilling on, but I can handle it.

Most of the issues you mentioned we discussed to death, I've said my peace and have moved on, so...

The secondary marjet - Honeatly I would be surprised if bastion spent 10 seconds thinking about the registrations effect on the secondary market. But, like I said, the thread I linked to shows a player concerned about this topic. It then shiws bastion ackowleginthe issue and stating they will address it in time. Dunno what else you want from them.

As far as my objectivity being blinded, you should know I'm one of the first people to complainmon the exillis forums when something is not right / meeting my expectations. I'm not bastions drone, when I see a problem I mention it. When i post about it on their forum in a constructive way they listen. When I show sound reasoningand logical solutions, they implement them. Now, I'm not special, any one of you can go on the exillis forum and constructively offer suggestions to better the game or express concerns. Guess what, they will listen to you too. If your suggestions make sense they will implement them. But talk to the peoplw who have the power to make changes and give answers, I'm sure they would love to hear from you.


I'm alot of things homie, but a blind follower is not one of them. They won my adament support through awesome gameplay and even better customer service. Try em

http://forum.ex-illis.com/index.php

MadNes wrote: I didn't call it BS someone else did

MadNes wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neconilis wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

warboss wrote:
Also, MadNes, thanks for putting up with the all too common BS of this board to talk about this game. Like the game or not I find it informative and interesting and I would hope others do too. So thanks, and please do continue to keep us updated on the state of the game and models.

Thanks brother. Appreciate it.

lol, due to a mistake somewhere in your quoting of other messages, your post makes it seem like i did and i figured you were just being coy/sarcastic about it. my mistake. my opinion on the issues raised still stands in that they're not BS but legit.

Richard Coeur de Lion wrote:I can pledge that MadNes is not an Ex illis employee, I am. I thought this was obvious when I posted but I can understand the confusion. Although sometimes I feel he's doing a better job than I am.

We understand that our message have been misunterpreted, and we are sorry if anyone has felt offended. We have never meant to insult anyone.
That sentence on the wiki was far from reflecting our vision and the whole idea behind Ex illis.
**snip**
I can reassure you, the second market issue is a concern for us too, and you don't have to worry, miniatures will be fully transferable with their registration code.

thanks for coming here to clear it up the details. i think madnes's fingers were getting raw from typing.

MadNes wrote:
I'm alot of things homie, but a blind follower is not one of them. They won my adament support through awesome gameplay and even better customer service. Try em

http://forum.ex-illis.com/index.php

never said you were a blind follower, just maybe too passionate to be objective about some of the criticisms brought up from people with fresh eyes and not emotionally invested in the game. either way, the company via richard seems to be listening/addressing the constructive criticism and that's all i can ask. they may ultimately decide it's not in their best interests to follow the advice given here and that would be perfectly reasonable too.

@ warboss - when I found out about ex-illis, I was JUST like you. The SAME EXACT concerns. 4real.

I went to gencon last year checking for Malifaux and Arcane Legions. Upon first glance I also did not like:

Grid Based Movement
Unit. Registry
Rolling Dice replaced by a fate screen
Units leveling up
The soft faction system.
Etc.

I then gave it a REAL shot.cuz my sister was all geeked about the iPhone part. To my surprise I liked it... Really liked it.




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I dont gloss over the areas of concern because I'm passionate about the game.

I'm passionate about the game because my gaming concerns / needs have been well met.

When we finally see the big demon thing can someone start a new thread?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:When we finally see the big demon thing can someone start a new thread?

You betcha!

MadNes wrote: I didn't call it BS someone else did

Indeed, that would be me. Also, just to be clear, I don't have any sort of issue with any of the concerns being raised. I called a lot of the discourse BS because of the general tone of it, not the subject matter.

That being said it seems emotions are dying down and that's always good to see and good for the conversation as well.

Now if I could only listen to my own advice at times...

warboss wrote:

MadNes wrote:As far as gameplay, you may be able to find out for yourself.

http://forum.ex-illis.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2572&p=12807#p12807

This thread mentions bastion kicking around the idea of a 30 day free trial. Pop on and tell them ur interested.

so... you apparently have to "activate" your minis online with a code. what happens when you sell your minis on the secondary market like the swap shop here? can the other person use them or are the models just really ineffective paper weights? the thread mentions that stolen units can't be reregistered to another person due to the code being necessary so i'm assuming used sold ones have the same problem. Does the person have to keep every code just in case they sell their armies at a later date? can the code be "transferred" to the new user? i'm assuming that they can't reuse those codes (just like with electronic game DLC) since nothing would stop people from just posting them online and having multiple people use the same one. the models have little to no secondary value to gamers if they can't be resold to others.

Ew, ew, ew ,ew. I want nothing to do with that. Then again, I'm mathematical enough that I would be willing to calculate numbers by hand.

MadNes: I am curious about the price point you mentioned as being part of what swayed you. What are you comparing Exillis product to that makes the price point such a value?

grizgrin wrote:MadNes: I am curious about the price point you mentioned as being part of what swayed you. What are you comparing Exillis product to that makes the price point such a value?

$60 for 54 minis (including 2 big monsters and some [IMO] really nice cavalry) is a sweet deal. When you throw in the really nice laminated map, (REALLY HEAVY MATERIAL) and the fact that bastion provides their rules, software, equivalent of a codex and an army construction tool for free... that to me seems like a bargain.

or for $160 you could get all of that stuff, plus 20 plastic 9" x 9" tiles. My group has three sets of tiles between us and they are awesome for setting up big games. The last one we played was a 6 player game, three players per team. we had about 220 models on the board and finished the game in about 2 hrs... SO FUN.

The boxed sets are a nice price too. other than the baneret which is WAY overpriced, ($22 for 2 figs) all of the other boxed sets are a really sweet deal. Most human sized boxed sets come in squads of 8 and sell for about $27 bucks. The mangonel boxed was was especially nice, it came with two mangonels and 2 crews of 3 for $25 bucks.

The sets also give you tons of extra bits for conversions and what not. Its also cool that your units will level up and gain new abilities (renewing or changing the units core competency depending on how you spec them) every few games. Meaning as your guys level up you can develop new tactics and uses, so its like getting a new unit after a few battles.

oh and I know bastion catches tons of flak for the registration codes, but the codes allow you to level and spec your guys, apply renown and develop a real history (which will have in game effects when bastion releases the campaign mode) with each unit. Meaning, Archer unit A) can be spec'd out to be super marksmen B) can be spec'd out to do elemental damage C) can be spec'd out to shoot at longer distance D) can be spec'd out to shoot a higher volume of arrows, or any combination within. So I don't have redundant units if I don't want them.

Even better, your archers and my archers won't necessarily play the same way.

Not bad for a $60 starter set and a couple of boxes of reinforcements

Most human sized boxed sets come in squads of 8 and sell for about $27 bucks

Are they better models than GW models? GW sells models cheaper than that, so $27 for 8 immediately sets off warning klaxons in my mind. If they aren't up to GW snuff, I would not buy them. If they are monopose and moderately blobby like some of the models that I have seen in this thread, I would not even consider buying them.

oh and I know bastion catches tons of flak for the registration codes, but the codes allow you to level and spec your guys, apply renown and develop a real history (which will have in game effects when bastion releases the campaign mode) with each unit. Meaning, Archer unit A) can be spec'd out to be super marksmen B) can be spec'd out to do elemental damage C) can be spec'd out to shoot at longer distance D) can be spec'd out to shoot a higher volume of arrows, or any combination within. So I don't have redundant units if I don't want them.

Isn't this what GW does with wargear and characters, except instead of buying items and modeling the weaponry, with this new game you have a basic guy and remember by some number code that he has XYZ...? I do not see the appeal.

Well ph, I gotta tell ya, if ya don't like the look of the models there's nothing else Ex-illis can do for you. In truth, thats the same reason I don't play warmachine.

Personally, I like the look of ex-illis better than a comparable gw force like bretonia or empire. On a side note, I was looking into getting some lotr movement bases to see if I can double up my english units into a bretonian army.

As far as comparing wargear to leveling and spec'ing, you could make a comparison. However, I find wargear to be a bit more generic (in most instances) than spec'ing which is tailored to each individual unit. In General, there are way more options in the spec tree than wargear options for a unit. (particularly in fantasy). There is also something more gratifying about playing games and achieving the skill up, than just picking a type of gun or armor.

Oh and bastion has announced that they are developing an in game economic system. So on top of spec'ing and leveling, you will be able to purchase... You guessed it wargear! Hurray for options.

As far as remembering who has what, that is up to the creativity of the player. Bexause there is no wysiwyg or true LOS, you can convert your figs to your hearts content. You spec out your swordsmen as fire based, greenstuff fire to their swords, paint them in firey. Colors, name them in the software, "flame Swordsmen" (or something creative), color them in the software to match the paint scheme... Or try to remember the code...

MadNes wrote:Oh and bastion has announced that they are developing an in game economic system. So on top of spec'ing and leveling, you will be able to purchase... You guessed it wargear!

Excuse me, but WTF?

Let me get this straight:

To play the game:
1. I buy minis which aren't obviously better than GW (unlike Malifaux & Infinity)
2. I buy software (unlike any other minis TTG)
3. I have to register my minis with the manufacturer (unlike any other minis TTG)
4. I compete against players who literally credit card their way to better-performing stuff in-game
5. Opponent minis stats are a mystery, until they show me how 1337 they are in-game

Screw that.

It is hard for me to believe it, but these d-bags have managed to combine every loathsome a-hole d-head practice one can imagine into a single game:
1. licensed minis
2. MMORPG levling
3. Defective By Design DRM-like hooks
4. credit card gaming
5. non-WYSIWYG minis

Normally, I'm pretty live-and-let live, but the more I learn about this game, the less I like it.

I really hope this thing fails HARD, and will be bad-mouthing it at every chance. If this game model succeeds, there isn't anything that'll stop GW, PP, and the rest from following suit, and that simply won't be acceptable gaming practice.

Hrmmpph. Been lurking for a while on this forum, made an account to post on this thread (though didn't feel the need until now), but this is just so plain wrong that I have to dive in.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Excuse me, but WTF?

Let me get this straight:

To play the game:
1. I buy minis which aren't obviously better than GW (unlike Malifaux & Infinity)

I'll concede this point to you - this is a matter of personal taste, and you are entitled to that opinion. Although I have to admit that I have a weakness for realistic proportions - it makes the few heroic units look that much more epic. (Ever heard of dynamic range in songs, where volume just tops off at 11 all along? Makes everything anticlimactic, contrary to, lets say, well sound-engineered music or classical music).

2. I buy software (unlike any other minis TTG)

Patently false. The software, the wiki, the coloring tool so ingame units look like you painted them, the army builder software are all free. The builder and coloring can be used as soon as you have a miniature in your account.
Even so, if they made you pay once for the software, it would still be better than codexes which you have to buy every edition of (and all patches, the equivalent of codex updates and errata, are also free of charge and automatically integrated).

3. I have to register my minis with the manufacturer (unlike any other minis TTG)

A triviality. This permits them to track your miniatures, allowing you to assign a specific painting scheme to each at will, following their progression, acquiring skills and so on. The "DRM" side (as in, they still have control over your code, you don't) did instill some fear at first, but it seems that the next few updates are aiming at solving this problem, with a lending feature and trial feature being discussed, as well as a marketplace that has been discussed on the forums since beta began about a year ago. And so far, I haven't wanted to get rid of a single of my minis

4. I compete against players who literally credit card their way to better-performing stuff in-game

Sounds to me like you deliberately twisted Madnes' words. He specified an in-game economic system. That is, you can earn gold (maybe possibly even loot) after battles, which can then be used to possibly buy items, reassign specialty points, and I don't know what else. I am confident that the Bastion team knows not to make that universally hated mistake, microtransactions, that a few well-hated cashcow MMOs have been making lately - Ragnarok Online, I'm looking at you!

5. Opponent minis stats are a mystery, until they show me how 1337 they are in-game

Nope. There are very helpful helpscreens littered through the UI, that basically make all the game state info available to you at will. For instance, by clicking on a unit portrait you have access to all their current properties, statuses, moral states and statistics. But I've seen a few players who preferred to play in a fog-of-war mindset, who simply decided that neither player should access those functions during a game.

Screw that.

It is hard for me to believe it, but these d-bags have managed to combine every loathsome a-hole d-head practice one can imagine into a single game:
1. licensed minis
2. MMORPG levling
3. Defective By Design DRM-like hooks
4. credit card gaming
5. non-WYSIWYG minis

Well, #3 is basically a repeat of #1, you list #2 as if it was a bad thing, #4 is at best a wild-ass assumption, and #5...
Well, its true that it's not WYSIWYG, but I like that. I've made a lot of conversions that wouldn't have been allowed if I was playing in a system where LOS is determined by the actual sculpt. But it's also a bit WYSIWYG, which is also a nice added justification for having minis on the board that I didn't see mentionned so far - the zone system permits the use of a bulk system that is orthogonal to accuracy for range shooting and magic shooting, and which is also the basic mechanism for artillery attacks. Every miniature has a bulk value that is representative of the volume it takes up on the board. So just by looking at a zone's content, you can intuitively guess whether you should expect a lot of enemy hits, a lot of friendly fires, or anything in between, depending on how the zone is packed.

Normally, I'm pretty live-and-let live, but the more I learn about this game, the less I like it.
I really hope this thing fails HARD, and will be bad-mouthing it at every chance. If this game model succeeds, there isn't anything that'll stop GW, PP, and the rest from following suit, and that simply won't be acceptable gaming practice.

Well, the cat's out of the bag. You have a righteous, self-sufficient and hypocritical attitude and it seems like you self-select what you decide to hear as to maximise how much you hate it. You have clearly learned very few about this game so far - although I understand, I was a WoW fanboy for a long while, so I didn't even want to hear about the possibility of Age Of Conan, Warhammer Online, etc., possibly being good games.

You should broaden your horizons a bit, that should help you get rid of that attitude which, I guess, isn't helping you discover new things which could actually amaze you, be it ex illis or another game.
Maybe start reading an article like the melee mechanics, which could make you realise that intuitive rules doesn't mean the absence of depth of gameplay.

Edit: Unproper opening tag for the last quote

^ I'm glad that you can predict the future, that this game will be so customer friendly for all eternity...

All I've learned, comes from this thread. And it makes me sick to my stomach that such a game and company can even exist.

Good riddance, and hope to hear it's bankrupt sooner rather than later!

Maybe you are overreacting a wee bit.

Johnny... C'mon Johnny. Poor soul, he was just too high strung.

Love when you post John, but you gotta relax a little, you're gonna give yourself a heart attack.

Now, throw away that hater-ade and be nice. Calling people d-bags and a-holes just isn't the dakka way...





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Oh and as far as the game being consumer friendly forever... The trend is your friend brother.

They are customer friendly now. Thats what matters. If things change cross that bridge when you come to it.

Somebody give johnny a hug man

JohnHwangDD wrote:^ I'm glad that you can predict the future, that this game will be so customer friendly for all eternity...

All I've learned, comes from this thread. And it makes me sick to my stomach that such a game and company can even exist.

Good riddance, and hope to hear it's bankrupt sooner rather than later!

Well then, looks like you didn't even read my retort, because it looks like you're still a bit misled. Why are you does the game make you sick if what you think you know about it isn't even true?
I can't speak for them, but I remember this very friendly, business-oriented fanboy on their forums who kept suggesting such schemes, microtransactions and all. Overall, he had a lot of good ideas, but the Bastion team clearly felt the need to constantly reiterate that they are first, foremost and only a miniatures company. I think they might implement some of those ideas sooner or later (they're completely open to suggestions and constructive criticism, even on their own forums), but I don't doubt that they'll be free (although I wouldn't mind paying some more dev time by myself to have those tasty suggestions come sooner rather than later - still better than buying codexes, )

Anyway, I suggest you make a trip to their forums and voice your concerns, you can be sure you'll be heard, and I don't doubt you'll be surprised by their attitude.

Gamingly yours,
Aginor

Actually, I have a question about the game software, what happens when you want to make custom rules?

JohnHwangDD wrote:I really hope this thing fails HARD, and will be bad-mouthing it at every chance.

I would recommend finding somewhere else to do it, then.

You're welcome to your opinion on the game, but there is nothing gained by flinging poo at it just because you don't like the direction they've chosen to take with the game.



Edit: Meanwhile, I have removed a bunch of off-topic posts from this thread. While I'm inclined to think this thread has run its course, I'm leaving it open for now just on the off-chance that anyone else has on-topic discussion to add.

Please leave the hysteria at the door.

insaniak wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I really hope this thing fails HARD, and will be bad-mouthing it at every chance.

I would recommend finding somewhere else to do it, then.

You're welcome to your opinion on the game, but there is nothing gained by flinging poo at it just because you don't like the direction they've chosen to take with the game.

Thank you.

Well back on subject. The gameplay and mechanics for Ex Illis are just a mess. Rules contradicting other rules and keeping track of all these other rules is hard to remember.
There was a group called Beast of War on Youtube and they did reviews of box sets and the minis and they said they were fairly impressed. They brought the game designer into their studio and said they were going to make a video where people could ask their questions about the game mechanics and the games designer would answer the questions. Then they said they will do a video of a Ex Illis game demo with the game designer and see how the game works. They never did that. Those videos never came. Then about 4 days later,The Beast of War group then did a random user give away and gave away all (and i mean ALL) the Ex Illis stuff they reviewed to a lucky winner. I wonder why.

Then a week later, this video came out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ9oztrkSBs
A Game Demo video explaining how the game works. It is ridiculous combination of Miniature Wargame/Board Game/Computer Game that adds up to this confusing abomination.
The cost to get into this game cost more than a Assault on Black Reach Starter Box Set. People who decided to pay the price to get a starter box ended up returning it for it being too confusing. The story of the game is that it is a Historical/Fantasy game. That doesn't make sense.
What is the point of the minis if you have the computer game. You watch the video and answer that.

This video makes more sense and is more enjoyable than the Ex Illis Game Demo video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ4CDKozP48

Right now this game has small popularity and not a lot of people are playing it. It is kind of sad. :(

Now I'm even more confused by it. The fact that their is actually a PICTURE on screen, not just the stats, means that there is no point of the board, just a piece of paper is needed really. Why spend extra money that is not even needed. I'd rather use fantasy guys than the things that are shown... oh wait, you have to register your models.