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Battle_Brother_Bruening wrote:I think the idea and the science behind it is that the frequency at what the voice works... because it is different for each person .... reacts with the brain and nerves not with any psychic power like the warp and chaos.

Chaos is way worse than Bene Geserit,a psyker could deal with most opponents in Dune.

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:No they won't,in one of the Space Wolf novels a Greater Nurgling unable to compel a Marine to his side,destroys his personality and rebuilts it from scratch and even after that the old personality takes over after some time.In one novels Ragnars resist Slanneshi magic and doesn't fall under it's influence(a beatiful daemon basically try to make Ragnar fall for her beauty IIRC,but not sure about the info).

I wonder how will Power Armor resist strike from Weirding Way?
Psykers in 40k are deadlier than those you see in Dune.

The Voice doesn't change your personality or make you do self destructive things.

They could just say something like "Take off your Helmet" or something simple like that.

I wonder how are they going to do that to an Iron willed Marine who can resist deamons who have much better metods of doing that.
Greater Nurgling tried to do the same Voice thing to a Marine,but it failed,so he changed his personality.

Considering a Space Marine is a 2d6 roll from running away from a Tank Shocking Devilfish, I'm not so sure how the Voice affecting them is so far-fetched. Also, not all Astartes are so resistant to Daemonic influence you know.

The term 'Voice' referred to an audio-neuro control mechanism that enables the manipulation of speech to achieve complete control over a receiver It is perfected by the Bene Gesserit through the combined training of several advanced techniques.

With sufficient natural ability and training one could become more resilient to the effects of Voice, as was most famously seen with Paul Atreides. Other methods of resistence came through technology, such as the Cone of Silence.

Maybe there is no effect on the strong minded but I don't think it is similar to what the nurgling did... they affect the soul of a person

Monster Rain wrote:

Considering a Space Marine is a 2d6 roll from running away from a Tank Shocking Devilfish, I'm not so sure how the Voice affecting them is so far-fetched. Also, not all Astartes are so resistant to Daemonic influence you know.

These things happen because a Greater Daemon or Chaos God turns his attention to someone(Horus was corrupted by all chaos gods,while only Khorne nearly corrupted Sanguinius).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Battle_Brother_Bruening wrote:The term 'Voice' referred to an audio-neuro control mechanism that enables the manipulation of speech to achieve complete control over a receiver It is perfected by the Bene Gesserit through the combined training of several advanced techniques.

With sufficient natural ability and training one could become more resilient to the effects of Voice, as was most famously seen with Paul Atreides. Other methods of resistence came through technology, such as the Cone of Silence.

Maybe there is no effect on the strong minded but I don't think it is similar to what the nurgling did... they affect the soul of a person

And that is soul is the mind of a person.

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Considering a Space Marine is a 2d6 roll from running away from a Tank Shocking Devilfish, I'm not so sure how the Voice affecting them is so far-fetched. Also, not all Astartes are so resistant to Daemonic influence you know.

These things happen because a Greater Daemon or Chaos God turns his attention to someone(Horus was corrupted by all chaos gods,while only Khorne nearly corrupted Sanguinius).

Okay, what about the other nine legions of Astartes that went with Horus?

IvanTih wrote:

Battle_Brother_Bruening wrote:The term 'Voice' referred to an audio-neuro control mechanism that enables the manipulation of speech to achieve complete control over a receiver It is perfected by the Bene Gesserit through the combined training of several advanced techniques.

With sufficient natural ability and training one could become more resilient to the effects of Voice, as was most famously seen with Paul Atreides. Other methods of resistence came through technology, such as the Cone of Silence.

Maybe there is no effect on the strong minded but I don't think it is similar to what the nurgling did... they affect the soul of a person

And that is soul is the mind of a person.

That's a leap. What makes you think that?

Chuck norris or Gordan freeman.

Monster Rain wrote:Okay, what about the other nine legions of Astartes that went with Horus?

Horus had great influence over them,couple that with fact that Horus was very good with them,some disliked Emperor and one was nearly destroyed by the Space Wolves and that should do it.
One was also the one which was first corrupted by the Chaos Gods.

IvanTih wrote:
And that is soul is the mind of a person.

Yes but voice affects the brain not the mind... and to clarify what i said about being strong minded... they just have to have knowledge to be prepared and resist... but this is getting nit-picky.

IvanTih wrote:

Battle_Brother_Bruening wrote:The term 'Voice' referred to an audio-neuro control mechanism that enables the manipulation of speech to achieve complete control over a receiver It is perfected by the Bene Gesserit through the combined training of several advanced techniques.

With sufficient natural ability and training one could become more resilient to the effects of Voice, as was most famously seen with Paul Atreides. Other methods of resistence came through technology, such as the Cone of Silence.

Maybe there is no effect on the strong minded but I don't think it is similar to what the nurgling did... they affect the soul of a person

And that is soul is the mind of a person.

That's a leap. What makes you think that?

Because when someone dies the Soul is the thing that contains their mind in the Warp(Eldar for example,Human souls don't retain sentinence after death expect for strong psykers).

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Okay, what about the other nine legions of Astartes that went with Horus?

Horus had great influence over them,couple that with fact that Horus was very good with them,some disliked Emperor and one was nearly destroyed by the Space Wolves and that should do it.
One was also the one which was first corrupted by the Chaos Gods.

I don't see how any of that has anything to do with what we're talking about.

The fact that there are Chaos Space Marines would mean that they aren't as "Iron Willed" and immune to having their minds influenced as you're making them out to be. Hence, I think the Voice could work on them.

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Okay, what about the other nine legions of Astartes that went with Horus?

Horus had great influence over them,couple that with fact that Horus was very good with them,some disliked Emperor and one was nearly destroyed by the Space Wolves and that should do it.
One was also the one which was first corrupted by the Chaos Gods.

I don't see how any of that has anything to do with what we're talking about.

The fact that there are Chaos Space Marines would mean that they aren't as "Iron Willed" and immune to having their minds influenced as you're making them out to be. Hence, I think the Voice could work on them.

Okay,the Voice can take over them,but Psykers on the other hand can play with Bene Geserit,in short use them as puppets or destroy their brains.

I agree with psykers beating bene gesserit no way they would last.

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The scary, giant borg cubes that ravage the galaxy aren't even their militarized ones.

And what makes you think that.

Because Borg Tactical Cubes are far more heavily armored and have better weapons.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Borg_tactical_cube

The Borg cube that nearly destroyed the federation was like an exploratory vessel.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The scary, giant borg cubes that ravage the galaxy aren't even their militarized ones.

And what makes you think that.

Because Borg Tactical Cubes are far more heavily armored and have better weapons.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Borg_tactical_cube

The Borg cube that nearly destroyed the federation was like an exploratory vessel.

And it will fall before a single IOM ship.

I'm pretty sure that in a straight up Space Battle the Borg would hand the Imperium it's Power Armored Ass.

That is, if they can keep the Teminators out of their ships.

Hmmm... I wonder if Deflector Shields would stop Terminator Teleportation.

Monster Rain wrote:I'm pretty sure that in a straight up Space Battle the Borg would hand the Imperium it's Power Armored Ass.

That is, if they can keep the Teminators out of their ships.

Hmmm... I wonder if Deflector Shields would stop Terminator Teleportation.

Have Borg ever throwed teratons of firepower?
I think that shields from both universes stop teleportation.

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I'm pretty sure that in a straight up Space Battle the Borg would hand the Imperium it's Power Armored Ass.

That is, if they can keep the Teminators out of their ships.

Hmmm... I wonder if Deflector Shields would stop Terminator Teleportation.

Have Borg ever throwed teratons of firepower?

I really don't think it would matter.

They would lose a few cubes, obviously, but once they adapted to the lasers and learned the tactics of the Imperial Navy they'd take them apart.

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I'm pretty sure that in a straight up Space Battle the Borg would hand the Imperium it's Power Armored Ass.

That is, if they can keep the Teminators out of their ships.

Hmmm... I wonder if Deflector Shields would stop Terminator Teleportation.

Have Borg ever throwed teratons of firepower?

I really don't think it would matter.

They would lose a few cubes, obviously, but once they adapted to the lasers and learned the tactics of the Imperial Navy they'd take them apart.

That doesn't matter when they can't throw enough firepower to even dent a void shield.

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I'm pretty sure that in a straight up Space Battle the Borg would hand the Imperium it's Power Armored Ass.

That is, if they can keep the Teminators out of their ships.

Hmmm... I wonder if Deflector Shields would stop Terminator Teleportation.

Have Borg ever throwed teratons of firepower?

I really don't think it would matter.

They would lose a few cubes, obviously, but once they adapted to the lasers and learned the tactics of the Imperial Navy they'd take them apart.

That doesn't matter when they can't throw enough firepower to even dent a void shield.

I don't know where you come up with that stuff. Do you have sort of source that you're drawing this conclusion from?

Anything that could damage a AV12 vehicle can "dent" a void shield.

Lulz. Honestly, no other sci-fi universe is nearly as cool as 40k. Nor as tough.

Name one thing that could kill a chaos god or a c'tan from another universe

Monster Rain wrote:
I don't know where you come up with that stuff. Do you have sort of source that you're drawing this conclusion from?

Anything that could damage a AV12 vehicle can "dent" a void shield.

Here are some calcs.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=105295&highlight=40k
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123079
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125649
Games mechanics aren't used in debates because they don't accuratly depict the game fluff.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Lulz. Honestly, no other sci-fi universe is nearly as cool as 40k. Nor as tough.

Name one thing that could kill a chaos god or a c'tan from another universe

The god from Xenosaga,he was just looking at the universe and that caused major problems.

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
I don't know where you come up with that stuff. Do you have sort of source that you're drawing this conclusion from?

Anything that could damage a AV12 vehicle can "dent" a void shield.

Here are some calcs.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=105295&highlight=40k
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123079
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125649
Games mechanics aren't used in debates because they don't accuratly depict the game fluff.

Sure they are. Why wouldn't they be? And, I'm sorry, those links? Why in the hell would I want to read all of that? If you're trying to put this debate into some sort of strange, esoteric context it's not going to work. I use the term "debate" extremely loosely here.

Void shields can be damaged with conventional firepower, in fluff and game mechanics.

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
I don't know where you come up with that stuff. Do you have sort of source that you're drawing this conclusion from?

Anything that could damage a AV12 vehicle can "dent" a void shield.

Here are some calcs.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=105295&highlight=40k
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123079
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125649
Games mechanics aren't used in debates because they don't accuratly depict the game fluff.

Sure they are.

Void shields can be damaged with conventional firepower, in fluff and game mechanics.

We know that they can be damaged,but game fluff doesn't accuratly depicts it because of the dice(otherwise Marines would have much higher stats and grots would not be able to defeat Marines because of some lucky dice).

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
I don't know where you come up with that stuff. Do you have sort of source that you're drawing this conclusion from?

Anything that could damage a AV12 vehicle can "dent" a void shield.

Here are some calcs.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=105295&highlight=40k
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123079
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125649
Games mechanics aren't used in debates because they don't accuratly depict the game fluff.

Sure they are.

Void shields can be damaged with conventional firepower, in fluff and game mechanics.

We know that they can be damaged,but game fluff doesn't accuratly depicts it because of the dice(otherwise Marines would have much higher stats and grots would not be able to defeat Marines because of some lucky dice).

That is both arguable and largely irrelevant.

In the fluff then, a Lascannon or TurboLaser can damage a Void Shield. I imagine a Borg Cube has comparable, if not better gubbinz than that.

Monster Rain wrote:[url]

That is both arguable and largely irrelevant.

In the fluff then, a Lascannon or TurboLaser can damage a Void Shield. I imagine a Borg Cube has comparable, if not better gubbinz than that.

The ships have muchs stronger Void Shields than Titans on the other hand.In Execution Hour it is said that Titan could only scratch surface of an Imperial Cruiser.

The novels are really inconsistent man. I wouldn't want to use them as proof of anything, unless you'll allow for one World Eaters captain to be able to whoop up on a disgusting number of Word Bearers.

Monster Rain wrote:The novels are really inconsistent man. I wouldn't want to use them as proof of anything, unless you'll allow for one World Eaters captain to be able to whoop up on a disgusting number of Word Bearers.

Only because doesn't have some good cannon policy,but we use them.
Did you even read those links.

Wow you guys are really getting down to it.... getting all fancy shmancy.... but i agree with mnstr rain

Battle_Brother_Bruening wrote:Wow you guys are really getting down to it.... getting all fancy shmancy.... but i agree with mnstr rain

Read those links especially Caves of Ice which meshes very good with some other examples.

If I recall correctly the amount of damage a void shield can take goes up exponentially as the size of the vehicle its mounted on increases.

An Emperator Titan has exponentially tougher void shields then does a Warhoud.

The same would be true for Spaceborn Vessels.

In the fluff it would take an complete IG armored division to bring down a single Warhound Titan.