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KingCracker wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

chowderhead13 wrote:Can anyone Mathhammer what would happen if I punched this thing in the face with Ghazzy?

with 7 charging attacks, hitting automatically assuming no movement, on average less than 40% chance to kill, or need probably three turns of charges to ensure a kill result. Hitting on 4's, less than 20%, or about 5 charges. Hitting on 6's, you'll need about 15 charges to kill it.

And thats just beyond silly. Ghaz excels at smashing vehicles, and pretty much anything else as well

Exactly. Ghazzy is awesome at killing AV14, and yet this massive wedge of cheese comes in and messes with my Ghazzy. Mathhammer this: 10 Nob bikers, on the charge, all PK with a Waaagh! Banner. Let's see how that does.

This thing pretty much eats every anti-tank weapon in the eldar army. I imagine i'll see a rise in fire prisms combining there power for a strength 10 Ap1 shot against this in the future if forced to play against this.

This thing is absurd.....

Exactly. Ghazzy is awesome at killing AV14, and yet this massive wedge of cheese comes in and messes with my Ghazzy. Mathhammer this: 10 Nob bikers, on the charge, all PK with a Waaagh! Banner. Let's see how that does.

Well, the Waagh banner has no bearing on vehicle hits, but assuming a charge to get the extra attacks and Furious Charge bonus, assuming the Achilles is stationary, 700pts of Powerklaw Nob Bikers with 40 S9 attacks will inflict an average of 1.1 kill results (so they should kill it), it it has moved, they have will inflict 0.55 kill results, if it moved over 6", they will inflict 0.1852 kill results, or about 1 every 5.4 turns.

Basically, if it's S9+ and doesn't rely on lance or melta, you're looking at needing 200% more attacks to kill the thing than you would a normal land raider. If it's S8 relying on Lance or Melta, don't bother trying. Even for S10 AP1 guns, you're looking at needing about 50-60% more shots to kill the thing.

Well, considering it's IA only, I guess it's time to break out the Str D weapons.

BaronIveagh wrote:Well, considering it's IA only, I guess it's time to break out the Str D weapons.

Achilles Data Sheet wrote:A Land Raider Achilles is also a Heavy Support choice in a Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Black templars, Codex: Space Wolves or Codex: Dark Angels.

Taken from here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/achilles.pdf

BaronIveagh wrote:Well, considering it's IA only, I guess it's time to break out the Str D weapons.

Just because it is an Imperial Armour unit doesn't mean it's designed for Apocalypse games. It's technically a heavy support choice for normal games where you wouldn't have Superheavies and the like to bring out Str D guns.

The thunderfire cannon isn't really that good....And the multi-meltas don't have good range.... I see no particular threat from it, aside from getting in the way

I will admit, the thunderfire cannon MIGHT be okay at anti-infantry with those blast templates....But then again, maybe not

If this thing really does get into codexii, I sincerely hope it costs more...It's ridiculous.

The threat is the fact that trying to kill it takes a crapton of firepower, but ignoring it means you'll soon end up with 2 multi-meltas in your lines, blowing your tanks up left and right.

It would be fine if, like a Monolith, it could be ignored, but it simply poses too much of a threat if you leave it unchecked.

Avatar 720 wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:Well, considering it's IA only, I guess it's time to break out the Str D weapons.

Achilles Data Sheet wrote:A Land Raider Achilles is also a Heavy Support choice in a Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Black templars, Codex: Space Wolves or Codex: Dark Angels.

Taken from here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/achilles.pdf

Yeah, I read it, believe it or not when I played against one yesterday. However, this is being released for an IA book, and I might point out that IA also says that the Thunderbolt is a HS choice for IG and that Chimeras can replace their ML with AC, but I've generally found most places won't let you play with them.

If IA is suddenly tourney legal, I'm going to add some fliers to my regular TT IG army.

Ahh well, at least Blood Angels can't have it...

But, sadly, neither can my Daemonhunters. Poo.

Kanluwen wrote:Defeats the purpose of the vehicle when you add a turret.

I have to agree.

That said, I would have liked to have seen them give some ability to traverse up and down. Right now it's very much a case of "Quick men! Shuffle slight to the left - it can't track us!".

I think it does traverse up and down. The way it's situated very much reminds me of a Sturmtiger, and that had the internals set up so it could traverse up and down, and even had limited horizontal traversal.

I just would've preferred a more centre-line mount and a more obvious ability to angle it upwards - that way it could be equal parts artillery and assault gun.

Samus_aran115 wrote:The thunderfire cannon isn't really that good....

The more people that think this, the happier I am.

I love this tank. The whole "immune to melta" thing seems a bit much, but I suppose that since IG have enjoyed the option in IA for so long it only makes sense that the Emperor's Finest get the same treatment.

Only problem: I had the idea of a TFC-equipped Land Raider about two years ago. Does GW owe me money?

Monster Rain wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:The thunderfire cannon isn't really that good....

The more people that think this, the happier I am.

What I don't understand is how 60">4x3" could ever be 'not really that good', like ever!

ChrisCP wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:The thunderfire cannon isn't really that good....

The more people that think this, the happier I am.

What I don't understand is how 60">4x3" could ever be 'not really that good', like ever!

Nah, the TFC blows.

I read it on the internet.

There is only one thing I like about this abomination...the fact that they finally painted and showed something from a chapter that I thought was forgot, the minotors(might have misspelled the actual chapter name I think it could possible Minotorus.


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Monster Rain wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:The thunderfire cannon isn't really that good....

The more people that think this, the happier I am.

I love this tank. The whole "immune to melta" thing seems a bit much, but I suppose that since IG have enjoyed the option in IA for so long it only makes sense that the Emperor's Finest get the same treatment.

Only problem: I had the idea of a TFC-equipped Land Raider about two years ago. Does GW owe me money?

Well..technically if you had posted it and given them proof, they could owe you something.
But you have to be able to prove that it was you that came up with the idea before they put a patent on it and such.
Not gonna state how I know this since last time i brought it up, no one believed me.

Oh I'm just joking around. I have had the idea of a LR mounted TFC for a while, but I'm not quote crazy enough to harass GW about it.

lol. Was just giving you a heads up just in case you where.

Now back on topic. is there ANYTHING in the chaos force that can stop this? Maybe perhaps a Summoned Daemon? I know nothing about how to play apoc, but want to eventually get into it when finances come around.

Melissia wrote:

MrGiggles wrote:
Well, give that my Orks don't get anything with Melta or Lance, it's rather meh for me.

Actually it still hurts you. Those S10 power klaws go from 1/3rd chance to 1/6th IF they penetrate (which is what, 1/3rd of the time?).

shrike wrote:so thats...1/18th? ouch. And that's IF you hit, so if they move 6" (which they probably will), that's a 1/32nd chance of destroying it. If they move 12"...whoah. that's 1/68th. that would take 11 ghazghkulls to kill. IF they charge. worst-case scenario- if they're stuck in combat, so no charge bonus...14 ghazghkulls.
that mathammer really hurts.
[EDIT]: That's 3150pts spent on killing a 300-point LR that moved 12".

that.


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Miraclefish wrote:Ahh well, at least Blood Angels can't have it...

But, sadly, neither can my Daemonhunters. Poo.

allied.

Samus_aran115 wrote:The thunderfire cannon isn't really that good....And the multi-meltas don't have good range.... I see no particular threat from it, aside from getting in the way

I will admit, the thunderfire cannon MIGHT be okay at anti-infantry with those blast templates....But then again, maybe not

If this thing really does get into codexii, I sincerely hope it costs more...It's ridiculous.

Yeah, that tactic worked fine... when it was artillery... Now it's mounted on a vehicle, no techmarine to bounce bullets off of, and, in a pinch, the machine spirit can pop a round or two out of it, too. It is kind of like a vindicator, people either stay away from it, or they shoot it, either way it becomes a priority target. so all those lascannons, missile launchers, railguns, etc, that used to take out one unit, suddenly become scared and they either move or concentrate fire. if you're not being fired upon by your enemy's uber-weapon, now you may have the chance to take some of them out!

basically unstoppable, unless you have
a) a list specifically designed to do so,
b) shot/charged everything at your dispossal at it. (in which case it would)
a) shrug it all ff and continue
b) laugh that you just spent X turns killing a 300pt unit, and now the rest of your army is slaughtering your men.
lose/lose situation (for you, anyway)

This is the worst model ever. It is totally cracked and defeats the purpose of the game to take an indestructible model.

nice MODEL, bad RULES.

It's not indestructible. No more so than the Monolith which dies all too frequently to things. Yeah, the Achilles is faster. It's also 65 more points.

Monster Rain wrote:It's not indestructible. No more so than the Monolith which dies all too frequently to things. Yeah, the Achilles is faster. It's also 65 more points.

It is also harder to kill, got better weapons and is'nt in an outdated codex.

Monster Rain wrote:It's not indestructible. No more so than the Monolith which dies all too frequently to things. Yeah, the Achilles is faster. It's also 65 more points.

The Achilles is actually significantly more sturdy than the Monolith. A monolith is still vulnerable to immobilization on glances and destruction by S8 Ap1 weapons.

Furthermore, because of -1 modifier, it takes *twice* as many lascannons to take down an Achilles as it does a monolith (72 BS3 lascannons to take down an achilles versus 36 for a Monolith)


So yeah, it *is* significantly more survivable than the monolith.

For significantly higher points.

With far more versatile weaponry and greater threat range, a transport capacity, in an army that can take a lot more armor to support it too.