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I just started off on Warhammer 40'000, and I do feel like it's hard at the beginning to start off. Not so much about the price, but more of the fact that as a newbie, I want all the cool things, like the Vindicators and Stormravens. The trick is, in my opinion, to pace yourself with your purchases as you start off. Once you have a well bodied army, you can start buying the stuff that is nice, but isn't needed.

It's started to happen for me & my friends. We're a bunch of college kids & money can be a bit tight. We've all recently started playing Malifaux which is a good deal cheaper.

AresX8 wrote:At least it's not as expensive as MTG on a competitive level (where the game is worth a damn).

I mean, just look at these deck costs:

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=794494
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=793620
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=793626

Based on those decks, I'd say competitive play is where the game stops being worth a damn. If the top 8 of both those tournaments have an average of ~2.7 Jace, the Mind Sculptors each, and 10 of those 16 players are playing variations on the same "Caw-Blade" deck with the same colours, the same special characters and the same sword, wouldn't you say that detracts from the game?

Gitkikka wrote:When will it be too expensive?

About five years ago.

That's the boat I'm in: I just can't make the justification to myself for a lot of the prices. $50 for 5 terminators, 5 plastic models still on the production sprue? Madness.

I will admit that the release of Dark Eldar managed to spur me into buying for a time, but I am confounded by what was going on there, as a company strategy.

The initial waves of DE plastics were costed like they were released years ago (literally, compare Warrior and Wych boxes at 10 figures for $25 to comparable Eldar boxes at over $30 for 10). Plus, I bought my whole army at a 30% off sale.

AresX8 wrote:Trust me when I say this:

At least it's not as expensive as MTG on a competitive level (where the game is worth a damn).

I mean, just look at these deck costs:

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=794494
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=793620
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=793626
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=793633

And keep in mind those decks become illegal (meaning you can't use them in a tournament) every two years by October or so. I used to be a diehard MTG player, then I switched to 40k because of how damned expensive MTG is compared to 40k. With 40k, I can spend the amount in deck #1 to build almost 3 1500 point painted armies WITH extra bitz for wargear. I'd take that anyday over pieces of cardboard.

In fairness, you are making an apples to oranges comparison there: the high prices you're seeing aren't caused by the cost from the company, but by the secondary market. GW makes miniatures, not collectibles. The value in MtG cards comes not only from their potency in-game, but from their rarity. Put another way, that $100 Jace isn't making WotC particularly more profit then the 5 cent commons.

Interestingly though, even when one compares GW products to collectibles, the price comparison doesn't really favor GW particularly. For example, HeroClix are (very roughly) in the same scale, but are sold: assembled, painted and with a multi-part, functional base as well as an individual card, all for about $2.40 per figure. That is, cheaper then even very cheap GW infantry like the new DE model range, which requires you to do all the expensive bits (assembling, painting and so on).

This really drives home just how out-of-whack GW's pricing scheme is, that even with shifting almost all of the labor costs, their products are still prohibitively expensive on a per-unit basis.

It's already too expensive to continue in the GW hobby by paying Aus retail prices.

I only buy new stuff if I HAVE to have it (as in, not having it makes my list illegal).

The rest, if I would like to have it, and it can be got for 50% from a net dealer, it gets done that way. Other than that, I scratchbuild.

Deeks2010 wrote:
Im collecting the entire 2nd company of space marines with additional tanks etc the same as the picture in the codex space marines

I like buying Ferrari's and then complaining about how expensive they are compared to Honda Civics.

I don't know. At best GW seems like a Cadillac or BMW. I mean, they make good
quality models with interchangeable parts that benefit from ubiquity. I'm tempted
to call them Toyota.

The Porsche comparison just never flew with me.

Dashofpepper wrote:Its already crossed that point for me.

I *am* a hardcore gamer, but the price of the models makes no sense - I don't really get the hobbying portion of the game, I appreciate the gaming portion of the game. So paying $4-5 per plastic model that I have to cut off the sprue myself, assemble myself, paint myself....is obscene. $50 for *maybe* $1 worth of plastic is horrendous.

I have a terminator army with 73 guys in it, if it goes up in flames...I will not be replacing it, :(

Mr. Burning wrote:

There won't be a cut off for most, people will just adjust their purchases accordingly. I don't know what GW's thinking is with repackaging the Orc boyz. Do they expect people will now simply pay almost twice as much and buy two boxes just to get the number of figures they could a month ago? I don't think it will work like that, most people just accept getting less for their money.

The orks I bought ten years ago for 40k are double boxed compared to the ones they sell today, people just don't seem to care.

chromedog wrote:It stopped being too expensive for me when I stopped buying at retail prices.

Now, if there's something I want, I'm prepared to wait for up to a year for it to hit 2nd hand markets.

Generally, with the codex release cycle and "new shiny" factor, models get dumped onto that market relatively quickly once the novelty wears off.

AGREE!

NAVARRO wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Just costed my Orc and Goblin army at todays prices- £620. Holy crap. That is crazy.

.

I'm afraid to do the math for my collection, I would probably sell it all and buy a vacations house

Then you need to sell it and buy the vacation home, that is a much better hobby and if the naysayers are right, GW will sink soon, so better to get out of the market,

Lanrak wrote:Hi all.
The GW hobby (tm) priced me out years ago.
As I have found much better value for money elsewhere, they could been seen as doing a favor to the gaming community in general.

GW plc spends over half its pre tax profits on B&M stores recruiting new gamers.
But spends so little trying to retain customers ,most of the long term gamers move to other companies .

(Mantic are absolutly ace IMO. )


TTFN

Agreed, why does GW need brick and mortar stores anyway? They say they are not competing with existing stores, but they certainly seem to enjoy building stores in areas with existing gamers(probably built up by the FLGS).

GW is not Apple.

malfred wrote:I don't know. At best GW seems like a Cadillac or BMW. I mean, they make good
quality models with interchangeable parts that benefit from ubiquity. I'm tempted
to call them Toyota.

The Porsche comparison just never flew with me.

I don't know about Porsche vs Ferrari or Hyundai. GW's Wars of the Roses models are rubbish compared with Perry Brothers'.

I hit my cutoff about 3 years ago.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Deeks2010 wrote:
I'm collecting the entire 2nd company of space marines with additional tanks etc the same as the picture in the codex space marines

I like buying Ferrari's and then complaining about how expensive they are compared to Honda Civics.

I understand your point, It was never my intention when I started out to start such a lengthy project, and I am doing it on the cheap, buying second hand, broken damaged items and then sourcing replacement bits etc, but just like everyone one here, when they started out, I bet most of them didn't expect to be still playing the game 15-20 years later, and experience such huge increases in prices, and expect to be spending so much on it.

I will continue in the hobby/game for many reasons, not just because I have already invested hundreds of pounds into it, but primarily because of the satisfaction it brings me, playing, learning, being creative and spending some real fun time with my children away from a TV screen or games console, but there is a limit on how much we as a family can afford to invest in this game, I know I don't "NEED" the entire 2nd company of space marines as Its hard to field such a large army unless playing Apocalypse games, equally though Ferrari drivers cant drive the car on any road in UK legally over 70mph so why buy a super car? I bet its for very similar reasons I bought my army, the fun, enjoyment and satisfaction it brings them.

Even in my short time playing and modeling there has been one price hike, and there will be more later this year no doubt, I simply asked when will it become too expensive for some people and when do you think GW will hit breaking point and price themselves out of the market totally, which would be a great shame, as many of those that have posted on this thread, they have some fantastic background stories, some brilliant ideas, and amazing quality crafted Minni's. But from what I can see, absolutely pants marketing sense.

AresX8 wrote:
Each deck is it's own thing, but some share colors. If you own a playset of Jace, the Mind Sculptor (who is about $100 by himself [yes, I know, a piece of cardboard worth $100], which is the reason why the decks are so high in cost), then building a super competitive deck just got a whole lot easier as a large portion of the competitive decks use him. But still, ~$400 worth in 4 cards is absolutely ridiculous.

So how much are Beta Black Lotus' worth now? I'll probably cringe for selling mine for $100/ each...

agnosto wrote:

AresX8 wrote:
Each deck is it's own thing, but some share colors. If you own a playset of Jace, the Mind Sculptor (who is about $100 by himself [yes, I know, a piece of cardboard worth $100], which is the reason why the decks are so high in cost), then building a super competitive deck just got a whole lot easier as a large portion of the competitive decks use him. But still, ~$400 worth in 4 cards is absolutely ridiculous.

So how much are Beta Black Lotus' worth now? I'll probably cringe for selling mine for $100/ each...

Unlimited Edition is worth about $1.3k, but it really depends on the condition. I've heard some Alpha copies go for $10k+, but that's with the card being completely mint. The feasibility of the card actually going for $10k+ is highly unrealistic, but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did so.

Here's an auction that you can watch: http://cgi.ebay.com/BLACK-LOTUS-BETA-MAGIC-MTG-EXCELLENT-/220750682892?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365c41b0c#ht_500wt_1156

AresX8 wrote:
Unlimited Edition is worth about $1.3k, but it really depends on the condition. I've heard some Alpha copies go for $10k+, but that's with the card being completely mint. The feasibility of the card actually going for $10k+ is highly unrealistic, but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did so.

Here's an auction that you can watch: http://cgi.ebay.com/BLACK-LOTUS-BETA-MAGIC-MTG-EXCELLENT-/220750682892?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365c41b0c#ht_500wt_1156

I think I just became ill. Ah well, I needed the beer money back in college....

Misguidance wrote:

(And as for it being more expensive now- when I first got into the game a blister of 3 spearmen cost £3.50. So that was *still* £35 per unit of 10

No... That would be £35 for a unit of thirty.

3 spearmen in each blister... Come on... Is basic maths dead?

A unit of ten would have cost £11.60.

So you could have bought a unit of 15 metal spearmen for £17.50.

It's not the affordability, it's the sticker price shock.

It's going into the shop and looking at a kit like Raveners and going, "They cost HOW MUCH?!?!?"

I can afford £27 for three Raveners if I want, but my mind refuses to believe they are worth it.

Kilkrazy wrote:It's not the affordability, it's the sticker price shock.

It's going into the shop and looking at a kit like Raveners and going, "They cost HOW MUCH?!?!?"

I can afford £27 for three Raveners if I want, but my mind refuses to believe they are worth it.

EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING(sorry for the caps its just price rage)

i have been playing/moddleing for about 21-22 years and GW has sqeazed very little blood from this stone in the last 5 years, I point blankly refuse to pay £22.50 for a set of marine that cost me £10 only a short time ago... AND THEY ARE THE SAME BOXSET?? now £15.00 i would pay, that is fair, and GW still makes a profit.

Termies are the same thing, i have a DW army i want to Update, but at £27 a boxset.. well im not sure.
the new GK ones have almost twice as much in the box, and cost 50p more, well done GW

OK, so at first I wasn't going to respond, but this topic has my interest now, so here's what I have to say.

First off, the law of Supply and Demand means that GW will feel free to raise prices as long as they continue to make a profit doing so. There will always be some people who stop buying when prices go up, yet there will be others who continue to buy. There is a line somewhere out there where enough people stop buying that GW will be forced to lower its prices. But they haven't reached it yet as I see it.

Second, this really is a rich man's game. If you don't have a lot of money, you play cards (regular cards) or you play chess. So right away, the game is designed so that if you have some extra money, you will put some into the game every now and then. GW, if it makes smart business decisions, has more products for you in case you happen to have more disposable income. The game does encourage you to spend money on it. Regularly. But I think everyone here has realized this.

That said, I want to make a point which I don't think has been made just yet. The OP wanted to know at which point price increases require one to drop out of the hobby. So here's the question I pose - what is "the hobby?" If the hobby is playing the game, you can continue to play with what you have indefinitely even if you never buy another model. Maybe your army is small, but there is no reason you can't play small games.

The question: is buying stuff what makes you enjoy the hobby? If you are all about buying stuff, you are bound to run out of money in any hobby. I admit, I like getting new models as much as the next guy, but that joy, the joy of taking a box of models home, is fleeting. The real fun (for me) is in playing. Hanging out with friends. Imagining the world.

If you are like me, you have unpainted models at home anyway. And some of you, like me, have quite a few. A good attitude for those like me would be to finish enjoying what you already acquired (painting, playing) before buying more. What I am saying is that the buying is just the first step of the fun. The second is painting. The third is fielding. The fourth is mastering the play options and tactics a unit offers. With these goals in mind, even a small army can yield a great deal of joy over a long time.

And who knows? You may enjoy the hobby MORE because you will have divorced the idea of spending on the hobby from enjoying the hobby.

Yes, very true.

That's why I made a resolution this year to catch up with the lead mountain rather than buy any new stuff.

yep we all have far more to build and finnish, than we need to buy

The price of the models wouldn't be nearly so bad if you didn't need so damned many of them to play.

From a display perspective the pricing isn't horrible (be better if they didn't screw you on a lot of the bits and include one of something per box). It's only really when you add up the cost of the army that things get messy.

As for me, I'm out. I may buy some more figs for display (still want to make an iRhino at least), but the cost of the game is too damned high.

It's about there for me. I can't come up with a decent playable force I like for under $400, and that's at 25-35% off retail. That's just really really hard for me to do. Which is a shame, because I absolutely love this hobby.

There really isn't another game like 40k. Malifaux, Warmahordes, etc etc just does not interest me at all.

My buying habbits have changed over the years. Back in 3rd 40k I would purchase anything that looked awesome. At one point I had 3 landraiders in a boxes but did not even have a space marine army. Fast forward to today. I still have a pile of unpainted stuff but it is limited to the army I am currently working on. With one exception...AOBR stuff. I have amassed an Ork army and odd Marines from lowball ebay auctions.

It has made my mind up on the future of my fantasy armies. They will be elite small model count armies or not at all.

Requia wrote:
(be better if they didn't screw you on a lot of the bits and include one of something per box).

I can't tell you how many Catachan Command Squad Boxes I have bought just to get a few bits here and there. Bitz Barn is a viable optiuon, if they weren't out of what I want all the time.

Its not cheap but then it never has been.

Stating that model x cost £10 x years ago doesn't really cover it for me. I think that that models GW sell now a substantially better than they were when they were £10.

When you factor in inflation over a 10-15 year period there has been a general rise in prices of 50% (at least in the UK). So the price seem to be justifiable to me.

Of course if you are comparing GW with other manufactures then yes the are pricey (whether they are to you taste or not). That cost is driven by the retail chain they hold (which is vital in the UK and merely important in other markets). With out the shops there would not be the huge cost, but with out the shops there would not be the huge demand (HHHobby wise) for GW product. At this point GW can not operate without these shops.

Having said this there is discrepancy in the range - single metals for £9.75 (GK special weapons being a good example, is that 1 or 2?). But I would suggest that this comes from the comparatively low numbers of metals now sold by GW. When they sell box sets with all options then the odd metal will be less required.

So as you can see I can happily justify GW to myself, thats not to say that I buy any GWs products and indeed haven't for 6+ months. This is because like allot of the old geezers that have posted before I have a huge backlog that needs justifying to the Mrs...... er I mean painting.

Another question to discuss: (Economies of scale aside) Why are other compaines charging similar rates for metal models as GW do?, and yet do not maintain a retail chain?

Porche indeed?

notprop wrote:Its not cheap but then it never has been.
When you factor in inflation over a 10-15 year period there has been a general rise in prices of 50% (at least in the UK). So the price seem to be justifiable to me.

The price of these guys is justifiable? :(

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440079a&prodId=prod900162a

notprop wrote:

Porche indeed?

Thankyou, notprop

DarknessEternal wrote:I like buying Ferrari's and then complaining about how expensive they are compared to Honda Civics.

I happen to drive one of those.


King Ghidorah

Pacific wrote:

notprop wrote:Its not cheap but then it never has been.
When you factor in inflation over a 10-15 year period there has been a general rise in prices of 50% (at least in the UK). So the price seem to be justifiable to me.

The price of these guys is justifiable? :(

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440079a&prodId=prod900162a

notprop wrote:

Porche indeed?

Thankyou, notprop

As I say to me. Every ones financial curcumstance will colour their POV. I do okay so can get what I like (if the Mrs doesn't catch on what I am a doing).

I can't see the pic at work so naturally will assume that it is very complimentary. Thank you

Deeks2010 wrote:Following this years price hike due to tax levels increasing, and no doubt additional price rises in future months/years, I was wondering when it would get to the point that GW eventually priced themselves out of the market.

When will it come to the point that people just say "how much? im not paying that for a model kit" or something similar, for instance GW recent price increases put the price of a 5 man devastator squad up to £20.50 in the UK that £4.10 per model, quite expensive really if you think about it.

Im collecting the entire 2nd company of space marines with additional tanks etc the same as the picture in the codex space marines and this will cost somewhere in the region of £1,200(if you bought it all from GW) to build let alone the paint and glue and time put into it. thats a heck alot of money for what is simply some plastic/metal models.

Now I know that if I dont like the idea of paying that much then I dont have to get into the hobby, but I have, I also shop around for alot of stuff cheaper than GW prices, I was just wondering when would it get to the point for some of you to say enough is enough and not to buy anymore?

Ellis

I think it depends on if you are a person just starting or someone who has models already. It seems to me that if you have models already you are probably more likely to continue buying at current or higher prices because you can already play and you can pick up thing here and there to fit into your already existing armies or you can take your time and build a new army over months or years.

The problem with higher prices in my opinion is more pronounced when you are dealing with new players entering the game. This is because they need (or at least will feel some pressure) to start playing as soon as possible and therefore will notice the total cost of an army much more quickly. This could be a serious hindrance to new people getting into the hobby. I realize we all joke about how mommy and daddy will continue to shell out for their kids to buy new stuff but a lot of potential new players will be adults or their parents really will not be willing to shell out that kind of money.

Either way rising prices are certainly bad for GW in the long term.