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The souls are very digestible. Ask Slaanesh..

Which is why they are kept in an infinity circuit/soul stones in the first place. They can be taken out of the can too

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:So they've finally ruined the mystery of the Tyranid invasion? How disappointing. Still, a dozen galaxies means the time lapse between each wave will be astronomical. The Imperium should have plenty of time to prepare.

What mystery did they ruin, exactly? They've always been described as an extra-galactic threat. The mystery was their origins, which is still there.

Also, your statement assumes that each galaxy was consumed by separate fleets. If it was one big fleet, which is more likely, there would be no time lapse between waves. And if there is a time lapse, it would be in the billions of years. Humanity would be gone in that amount of time (Tyanids would have been most of the way to this galaxy even when the War in Heaven happened), and the Tyranids wouldn't need to bother with trying to fight them away from the resources they want.


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Ascalam wrote:The souls are very digestible. Ask Slaanesh..

Which is why they are kept in an infinity circuit/soul stones in the first place. They can be taken out of the can too

The Doom of Malan'tai is quite fond of eating souls. It's what it does. It destroyed Malan'tai by sitting in the infinity circuit, munching on souls, while gaining UNLIMITED POWAH.

A few things:
1)the creature the Nids use to travel FTL (cant remember the name) causes huge gravometric, tectonic and electrical disruptions on the planet/planets that they 'target', this even without anything else, would give a HUGE warning to the IoM.
2)As stated earlier, the Nids prefer to travel slower when in-system. In Courage and Honour (I think, one of the Ultrasmurf books anyway) the Hive Fleet takes months to move from the outer edges of the system to Tarsis Ultra, and while this is happening, astropoaths are still able to send some sort of communication through the Warp (well the ones who havent scratched out their own eyes just before their heads explode enyway )
3) someone mentioned much earlier in the thread that the Hive mind is 'curious', im sorry but that is BS. Cant remember the reference, but Tigurius managed to gain insight into the HIve mind and he describes it as something along the lines of 'a soulles hunger, devoid of any other emotion' (feel free to correct me on the actual quote)
4)The Necron fleet that made it to Mars...was pretty much the first time anyone in the IoM had ever even seen a Necron ship, let alone see what their weapons could do/how durable their armour was/maneuvaribility of their ships etc. considering all that is known about that now, are you really suprised a lightining raid (that bypassed the majority of the defences IIRC) by the most powerful ships in the 40k universe (compared to their tonnage) managed to make it through?

there were a couple of others but its 3am here so i cant remember them, and apologies for any typos.

Revenent Reiko wrote:1)the creature the Nids use to travel FTL (cant remember the name) causes huge gravometric, tectonic and electrical disruptions on the planet/planets that they 'target', this even without anything else, would give a HUGE warning to the IoM.

The Narvhal was one of the dumbest changes they made in 5th edition. I preferred it when Tyranids just always moved at sublight speed. Reinforced the slow but unstoppable consuming of a system. Like a slow sledgehammer.

Revenent Reiko wrote:2)As stated earlier, the Nids prefer to travel slower when in-system. In Courage and Honour (I think, one of the Ultrasmurf books anyway) the Hive Fleet takes months to move from the outer edges of the system to Tarsis Ultra, and while this is happening, astropoaths are still able to send some sort of communication through the Warp (well the ones who havent scratched out their own eyes just before their heads explode enyway )

Black library books are pretty questionable as fluff references. Authors tend to 'forget' specifics if it helps their narrative. Even Dan Abnett does. Fluff for the Shadow in the Warp says all but the most powerful astropaths go insane or die when it approaches, and even the powerful astropaths are spending all their abilities trying to not go insane.

Revenent Reiko wrote:3) someone mentioned much earlier in the thread that the Hive mind is 'curious', im sorry but that is BS. Cant remember the reference, but Tigurius managed to gain insight into the HIve mind and he describes it as something along the lines of 'a soulles hunger, devoid of any other emotion' (feel free to correct me on the actual quote)

True, but also don't forget that he's a human tryign to understand an utterly alien intellect, something never before encountered. It's not a stretch that Tigerius, while he touched and saw the Hive Mind itself, he simply does not understand it.

Yeah the Narvhal (ty for the name) is a ridiculous addition, theres even some fluff somewhere when an IoM fleet just killed all of them in a Hive fleet so it had no chance of getting to any other system ( )

with you on the questionable reference, Im guessing thats fluff from the Nid codex about SitW?I just dont see how they can block out the Astronomicon...although if Terra were besieged (unlikely as that may be) we would quickly run out of psykers to power it.

While i agree with you about the unknowable alien mind....i just cant see the Hive Mind being 'curious'. And even though Tigurius may not be able to feel its more complicated emotions, hunger is easy, and if thats all he felt it kinda seems there isnt going to be that much else if that makes sense?

I wasn't really defending the whole hive mind being curious, just saying, just because Tigerius is a powerful psyker, he might not be the kind of psyker who would understand an alien mind, and the hive mind is the most alien of all.

Sorry that some of you took my comments to seriously, they were meant as a joke. I too like to discuss what could happen, and I love the fluff.

-Loki- wrote:I wasn't really defending the whole hive mind being curious, just saying, just because Tigerius is a powerful psyker, he might not be the kind of psyker who would understand an alien mind, and the hive mind is the most alien of all.

o no i totally understand where you are coming from (and agree with you), apologies if i came across confrontational, it was really late and my politeness takes a noticeable dip when im tired



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Humbaba wrote:Sorry that some of you took my comments to seriously, they were meant as a joke. I too like to discuss what could happen, and I love the fluff.

my bullets-points werent meant to mirror yours Humbaba sorry, they were just general points i was making from the thread.
actually your first point is very valid, GW is a company and wont ever give us an answer to this (unless the entire franchise goes completely under, in which case we might get some hastily written, poorly thought out answers)

-Loki- wrote:

Ascalam wrote:The souls are very digestible. Ask Slaanesh..

Which is why they are kept in an infinity circuit/soul stones in the first place. They can be taken out of the can too

The Doom of Malan'tai is quite fond of eating souls. It's what it does. It destroyed Malan'tai by sitting in the infinity circuit, munching on souls, while gaining UNLIMITED POWAH.

Can I make a blatant plug for my Doom of Malan'tai unleashed for Apocalypse thread at this juncture?

-Loki- wrote:
What mystery did they ruin, exactly? They've always been described as an extra-galactic threat. The mystery was their origins, which is still there.

The mystery as to why they were coming. The whole idea of whether or not they were fleeing, were coming after having devoured their galaxy, simply trying to find over sources of food after stalemating in their own galaxy. Simply saying 'they consumed over a dozen galaxies' reduces the interest I find in them. Especially since they're like to lose.

Also, your statement assumes that each galaxy was consumed by separate fleets. If it was one big fleet, which is more likely, there would be no time lapse between waves. And if there is a time lapse, it would be in the billions of years. Humanity would be gone in that amount of time (Tyanids would have been most of the way to this galaxy even when the War in Heaven happened), and the Tyranids wouldn't need to bother with trying to fight them away from the resources they want.

They've been coming from different directions, but yeah that was just an assumption. Maybe.

Darth Bob wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I just know for a fact that every armed Imperial soldier would come to sol if it meant saving the Emperor from being nom'ed.

According to Kryptman, that might not be enough.

Kryptman is probably over egging the pudding to increase next years budget!

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:The mystery as to why they were coming. The whole idea of whether or not they were fleeing, were coming after having devoured their galaxy, simply trying to find over sources of food after stalemating in their own galaxy. Simply saying 'they consumed over a dozen galaxies' reduces the interest I find in them. Especially since they're like to lose.

Except none of that has been revealed. They flatly state there's about a dozen galaxies that they've destroyed. How does that in any way tell you they're running from something, or that they were a biological weapon that got out of hand, or were a colony of mutant ants that got too big for their boots, or that they're an intergalactic cleaning mechanism, or whatever other theory people have about them? None of that has been ruined simply by stating how many galaxies they overran before the Milky Way.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:They've been coming from different directions, but yeah that was just an assumption. Maybe.

The hive mind is said to be intelligent. If they have a significant force comeing from the void, and two thrusts into the eastern fringe got beaten back, it's easy to assume they figure a different route of attack would be better. Just go around and attack from somewhere else. They don't have to be moving in straight lines.

I think th nids will get destroyed, the hive fleets will get destroyed

About an earlier point of the C'tan Void Dragon "killing off" the Tyranids, yeah, there's a problem, rumor has it in the fluff that another C'tan god (The Outsider) controls the Tyranids, and are in fact helping the Necrons (Even though the Necrons at one point wiped out a small part of the Nids of Hive Fleet Gorgon) and it seems very possible that, with the help of the Necrons, the Nids and Necrons could very well destroy the Imperium (Keep in mind, the rumor was not confirmed yet, from my understanding, and there has been no Tyranid-Necron cooperation that I've seen in the Nid Codex, and so the rumor is just that- a rumor). Though it could just so happen that the Outsider and the other C'tan gods are not on good terms, or maybe the Deceiver wants him out of the picture (Likely because of his (Or perhaps the Eldar Laughing God's) role in the C'tan devouring each other and his aspiration the rule the C'tan by himself), so the other C'tan may know of the Outsider's role in the Tyranid invasion, and wanted him dead, or just hated his use of living subjects instead of souls trapped in metal.

Now, the Tyranids know exactly how to get to Terra, that is, if the Astronomicon is there, because they were attracted to our galaxy by either the Astronomicon (Likely) or they were (Gulp) on the run from something and happened upon our galaxy as a safe haven full of biomass, or that, but without the running.

AwesomeFex wrote:About an earlier point of the C'tan Void Dragon "killing off" the Tyranids, yeah, there's a problem, rumor has it in the fluff that another C'tan god (The Outsider) controls the Tyranids, and are in fact helping the Necrons (Even though the Necrons at one point wiped out a small part of the Nids of Hive Fleet Gorgon) and it seems very possible that, with the help of the Necrons, the Nids and Necrons could very well destroy the Imperium (Keep in mind, the rumor was not confirmed yet, from my understanding, and there has been no Tyranid-Necron cooperation that I've seen in the Nid Codex, and so the rumor is just that- a rumor).

Highly doubt it. Because The Outsider hates all other C'Tan and hates his servants.

Asherian Command wrote:

AwesomeFex wrote:About an earlier point of the C'tan Void Dragon "killing off" the Tyranids, yeah, there's a problem, rumor has it in the fluff that another C'tan god (The Outsider) controls the Tyranids, and are in fact helping the Necrons (Even though the Necrons at one point wiped out a small part of the Nids of Hive Fleet Gorgon) and it seems very possible that, with the help of the Necrons, the Nids and Necrons could very well destroy the Imperium (Keep in mind, the rumor was not confirmed yet, from my understanding, and there has been no Tyranid-Necron cooperation that I've seen in the Nid Codex, and so the rumor is just that- a rumor).

Highly doubt it. Because The Outsider hates all other C'Tan and hates his servants.

Ah, so then the latter part of the quote (Just added) may prove of some accuracy, no?

There's an easy way to disprove the 'The Outsider is the hive Mind' theory.

The hive mind is a psychic entity in the warp. The Outsider is a C'tan. The C'tan don't understand the warp at all. The C'tan are also not psychic, in fact, they are quite vulnerable to psykers. There's also hints in codex Necrons that they cannot survive in the warp.

The Outsider isn't the hive mind.

-Loki- wrote:There's an easy way to disprove the 'The Outsider is the hive Mind' theory.

The hive mind is a psychic entity in the warp. The Outsider is a C'tan. The C'tan don't understand the warp at all. The C'tan are also not psychic, in fact, they are quite vulnerable to psykers. There's also hints in codex Necrons that they cannot survive in the warp.

The Outsider isn't the hive mind.

D'oh! Foiled again! But, great show of fluff knowledge, my friend, I'm not really a Necron guy anyway, so I don't know much of their fluff, only some Nid fluff. I do have a friend that is into Necrons, I don't know if he has joined, I told him about Dakka, haven't seen him around yet.

Presenting, a piece of evidence to support the idea that Tyranids would not go anywhere near Terra due to there being a C'tan on Mars...

The star map in the 3rd/4th edition tyranid codex.

Note that one of the major hive fleets is very, very careful to totally avoid going anywhere near an "anomaly" that is directly smack in the centre of it's invasion path... the fleet splits in 2 to avoid it then rejoins once it's passed.

The anomaly of course, is a blurry pic that llooks exactly like some sort of artificial necron world.

So, this is an example of a full-strength major hive fleet not just being completely unwilling to fight even a single necron-constructed world, but also being unwilling to get anywhere near it.

The hive mind clearly knew exactly what it was, and went to great lengths to avoid it at all costs. I've always seen that part of the codex as evidence that Necrons are the only thing in existence that the hive mind is afraid of.

Except that the 5th edition code specifically says that the Tyranids are being drawn to Terra by the astronomican. Whether there's a C'tan there or not, there's a big light saying 'SOMETHING IS HERE'. While it's not the focus of every hive fleet, there's two on their way, Scylla and Charybdis.

scarletsquig wrote:Presenting, a piece of evidence to support the idea that Tyranids would not go anywhere near Terra due to there being a C'tan on Mars...

The star map in the 3rd/4th edition tyranid codex.

Note that one of the major hive fleets is very, very careful to totally avoid going anywhere near an "anomaly" that is directly smack in the centre of it's invasion path... the fleet splits in 2 to avoid it then rejoins once it's passed.

The anomaly of course, is a blurry pic that llooks exactly like some sort of artificial necron world.

So, this is an example of a full-strength major hive fleet not just being completely unwilling to fight even a single necron-constructed world, but also being unwilling to get anywhere near it.

The hive mind clearly knew exactly what it was, and went to great lengths to avoid it at all costs. I've always seen that part of the codex as evidence that Necrons are the only thing in existence that the hive mind is afraid of.

That's no moon... It's a space station...

I'm about 99% certain that that anomaly is the Dyson Sphere within which the Outsider is imprisoned. A scrap of writing elsewhere in the codex details it and says that either it is about 32,000,000 times the size of Terra, or it has an infinite albedo range. What an albedo range is, I haven't the foggiest, but. This means that Hivefleet Leviathan is moving around The Outsider, so he couldn't have created them. IMO.

3) someone mentioned much earlier in the thread that the Hive mind is 'curious', im sorry but that is BS. Cant remember the reference, but Tigurius managed to gain insight into the HIve mind and he describes it as something along the lines of 'a soulles hunger, devoid of any other emotion' (feel free to correct me on the actual quote)

That'd be me. To adapt you must experiment, the hive-mind is a collective consciousness of all tyranid creatures. It has created many "special" types of 'nids to deal with certain situation's like; the parasite of morton, old one eye, the red terror, doom of malon tai, swarmlord. I would say that most of the tyranid attributes the Imperium faces today have been "special" at some point. Maybe, some experiment to see if it is effective at defeating its food.

To say that it only has the feeling of hunger is very naive, that is like saying a lion is not curious at times. If it sees a new creature it might stick its nose in and mess around with it and maybe take a nibble to see if it is edible. The lion would not go in with all its got and maybe get itself hurt maybe even killed. if it is edible and doest hurt the lion to much then it will go ahead and have at it. If the prey is to dangerous, it will move on. So I would say that this galaxy is in the nibbling stage as of now, Tyranids are sending in advanced fleets to see what we do. Poking and prodding to feel for our weaknesses. These special tyranids adapt for the good for the rest of the race so it is better prepared for when it arrives.

The Tyranids probably also know if it is a mineral they can use. If its not, there's no point wasting biomass attacking it, so they ignore it.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

3) someone mentioned much earlier in the thread that the Hive mind is 'curious', im sorry but that is BS. Cant remember the reference, but Tigurius managed to gain insight into the HIve mind and he describes it as something along the lines of 'a soulles hunger, devoid of any other emotion' (feel free to correct me on the actual quote)

That'd be me. To adapt you must experiment, the hive-mind is a collective consciousness of all tyranid creatures. It has created many "special" types of 'nids to deal with certain situation's like; the parasite of morton, old one eye, the red terror, doom of malon tai, swarmlord. I would say that most of the tyranid attributes the Imperium faces today have been "special" at some point. Maybe, some experiment to see if it is effective at defeating its food.

To say that it only has the feeling of hunger is very naive, that is like saying a lion is not curious at times. If it sees a new creature it might stick its nose in and mess around with it and maybe take a nibble to see if it is edible. The lion would not go in with all its got and maybe get itself hurt maybe even killed. if it is edible and doest hurt the lion to much then it will go ahead and have at it. If the prey is to dangerous, it will move on. So I would say that this galaxy is in the nibbling stage as of now, Tyranids are sending in advanced fleets to see what we do. Poking and prodding to feel for our weaknesses. These special tyranids adapt for the good for the rest of the race so it is better prepared for when it arrives.

ok i understand what you are saying about the lion.However, the Hive Mind does not 'experiment', each new or special creature is a designed evolutionary change brought about by an alien intelligence unlike any other. Yes it is so that these creatures have all been 'created' specially for a given task/planet/for use against specific species. This is not experimentation, and is not driven by curiosity, it is hunger pure and simple. The reason a lion will probe and test to see if it can get a meal is because it is unable to force an evolutionary change and must therefore work with what it has. This is not to say however that the proces by which a special creature or strain does not come about through 'experimentation', ie trying something and if that doesnt work then add something new (for example adding fat reserves when in a cold climate), but it is not out of curiosity that this comes about.

And how can i be naive when im quoting (kind of, i dont know the exact quote) from official fluff

I do agree with your idea of what the Hive Mind is doing though, it is testing our defences, but this is not because it is curious, its because the Great Devourer is hungry

Codex Imperialis suggests that some viruses on Earth and other worlds could have been early Tyranid organisms, and they're all part of something much bigger.

SO MAYBE THEY'RE THERE ALREADY!!!

Daba wrote:Codex Imperialis suggests that some viruses on Earth and other worlds could have been early Tyranid organisms, and they're all part of something much bigger.

SO MAYBE THEY'RE THERE ALREADY!!!

Daba wrote:Codex Imperialis suggests that some viruses on Earth and other worlds could have been early Tyranid organisms, and they're all part of something much bigger.

SO MAYBE THEY'RE THERE ALREADY!!!

What, like the Fenrisian Kraken?

and the Catachan devil.

Probably a few others in the fluff here and there..

To those that complain about the Narvhal addition, think about space:

Proxima Centauri, the closest star to earth (not inc. the Sun) is 4.24 light years away, thats 2.49248392 × 10^13 miles.

'nids come from outside the milky way, the nearest galaxy to the milky way (not necessarily the one 'nids come from) is the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy (btw, I am not including the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, as this is 'technically' becoming part of the milky way), which is 75,000 light years away, or 4.40887486 × 10^17 miles.

What is in the space between these galaxies? not much at all, maybe some minute, insignificant, microscopic concentrations of the important elements, but mostly just an empty vacuum.

The nids, being organic, will eventually die from natural causes, and since I doubt they can recycle their dead 100% perfectly down to the last atom and molecule, they will have long since snuffed it before they even reach the halfway point. And besides the point, if we assume nids have never had warp travel, without it iit would take them so long to get here (even assuming that they left well in advance so they wouldn't be late) that by the time they reached our galaxy, human civilization would be long, long dead, as would probably the tau & eldar & orks, in fact, most of the life in the milky way would be long long dead before they showed up.

They need warp travel, otherwise by the time they get here the restaurant would be closed

Also, @lindsey40k, that was the funniest thing I've seen all day

Leigen_Zero wrote:To those that complain about the Narvhal addition, think about space:

Proxima Centauri, the closest star to earth (not inc. the Sun) is 4.24 light years away, thats 2.49248392 × 10^13 miles.

'nids come from outside the milky way, the nearest galaxy to the milky way (not necessarily the one 'nids come from) is the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy (btw, I am not including the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, as this is 'technically' becoming part of the milky way), which is 75,000 light years away, or 4.40887486 × 10^17 miles.

What is in the space between these galaxies? not much at all, maybe some minute, insignificant, microscopic concentrations of the important elements, but mostly just an empty vacuum.

The nids, being organic, will eventually die from natural causes, and since I doubt they can recycle their dead 100% perfectly down to the last atom and molecule, they will have long since snuffed it before they even reach the halfway point. And besides the point, if we assume nids have never had warp travel, without it iit would take them so long to get here (even assuming that they left well in advance so they wouldn't be late) that by the time they reached our galaxy, human civilization would be long, long dead, as would probably the tau & eldar & orks, in fact, most of the life in the milky way would be long long dead before they showed up.

They need warp travel, otherwise by the time they get here the restaurant would be closed

Also, @lindsey40k, that was the funniest thing I've seen all day

I once read a novel where an alien species used the same thing as Tyranids to get around, but explained much better. Essentially, gravity is everywhere, with the universe pulling us in every direction equally. When you go near a planet, that gravity pulls you slightly more in that direction. Using an element called cavorite, they were able to nuetralise gravity behind them, meaning the entire universe is pulling them in one direction. They further excellerated themselves by slingshotting around black holes, using the cavorite to shield them from the gravity. they were able to excelerate to many times the speed of light.