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2011/05/19 17:32:39
Subject: Re:Just sent this to Games Workshop. I suggest everybody do the same!!
Pfft, keep on defending them.
It doesn't stop the fact that we can and will say what we want, even if you want to be the company yesman and spokeperson for a bunch of !@#tards. GW is shafting us as customers and players, we don't like it and we're going to do what we want to about it. YOU don't like that, thats tough.
Bottom line, FETH them!
Balls to you big daddy!
I ain't never coming back!
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2011/05/20 01:04:04
Subject: Re:Just sent this to Games Workshop. I suggest everybody do the same!!
My letter, a little bit more long winded than I intended but I hope will get the point across. It's going in the mail, on paper, back to the UK which I hope will raise its efficacy above that of an email.
Spoiler:
To whom it may concern,
I am writing as a twenty year fan of Games Workshop regarding the recent change in policies enacted by the company. First, let me say that I was absolutely delighted by the recent Dark Eldar, as well as Orc & Goblin, releases. The former range is (although it seems strange to say concerning the subject material) quite beautiful, and I believe the designers and sculptors have set a new benchmark in design quality.
So with this in mind it has pained me to see the recent sequence of policy changes enacted by Games Workshop. Chiefly among these is the new rule preventing UK sellers from posting to locations outside of the UK. I am currently living and working in South Korea, and my hobby activities have only been made practical by orders from UK independent retailers. Without this option, there is only a single independent stockist in the entire country. This retailer does not hold the entire range, and furthermore is more than 5 hours travelling time from where I live. While it may indeed be possible for me to receive Games Workshop product from family members sending private mail, this new policy has added a massive inconvenience and I am sure will curtail many of my future purchases. I can understand I only represent a minor demographic for Games Workshop, but nevertheless there is a dedicated group of hobbyists who live within the country. Most are ex-pats like my self, but there are also a growing number of native players who are being pulled into the hobby themselves. It is un-doubtable that there is a massive untapped market here in Northern Asia, and this new move has the potential to snuff it out in its infancy.
The second, no less important, point I would like to raise concerns the latest increase in pricing. While I am excited at the prospect of new resin models, as Games Workshop customers we had previously been lead to believe that such a move was made at least in part due to its cheaper production costs (so that the company would no longer be at the whims of increasing metal prices). Why then, have the latest price lists revealed as much as a 25% increase in prices? I have always done my best in the past to defend the price increases against my doubts, on the basis of production and development costs, and the quality of the models which Games Workshop produces. However, I have found my self aghast at these latest price increases. Furthermore, while Games Workshop does not price it’s miniatures significantly above those of other manufacturers (at least in most cases), it is set apart by the number of models which are required to take part in a standard game. The new Warhammer Fantasy Battle 8th edition, while a fantastic set of rules and a great book in its own right, has tipped the balance firmly in favour of large blocks of infantry. That this has coincided with a reduction in the number of miniatures in a single boxset (with orcs for example, and an increase in the relative price per orc) has led me to question whether a new force is economically feasible. I am an adult with a comfortable amount of disposable income, but I fear that this latest increase may have taken me beyond the tipping point. I shudder at the thought of parents given a bill for what there child’s new army might cost, at even the minimum level to play as Games Workshop recommends it. Although I don’t wish to go on a tangent at this point, I look through the companies range of products, and I don’t see the ‘skirmish’ size games which were present when I started the hobby myself, and which acted as a gateway for both myself and so many others to get into the hobby and be ‘bitten’ by the GW bug.
Games Workshop has been an important part of my life. It might sound strange to people who are outside the hobby, but the community aspect, the enjoyment of playing, modeling, and reading about the fantastically created universes have provided me with massive enjoyment over the years. It is for this reason that I write this letter; not only because the changes will affect my own hobby on a personal level, but also because one day I hope that my own children will be able to experience the same enjoyment that I have been lucky enough to experience. The new changes seem completely irrational to me and without any logic concerning the long term future of the company. While they may generate profit over the short term, these policies as well as others (whose inclusion I have forgone in order to try and keep this letter concise – it could have been longer!) I fear will result in an uncertain future for Games Workshop. Most certainly it places a big question mark over my own future involvement in terms of purchasing new products, and I am fortunate in that regard that I already have a significant collection. I feel sorry however for those who do not.
Thank you for taking the time to read my letter, and I hope it (or at least the sentiments it contains) will be passed on so that the subjects it broaches upon may be discussed further. Due to my location, I do not expect a written reply, and so have included my email address.
Pacific wrote:My letter, a little bit more long winded than I intended but I hope will get the point across. It's going in the mail, on paper, back to the UK which I hope will raise its efficacy above that of an email.
I did a quick read of your "letter." I will ask you one question.
What benefit do the owners of GW get from your suggestions? The answer? TBQH, nothing. In the end GW is an operating business. The end goal of all operating businesses is to increase the wealth of owners. Unless you can provide suggestions that increase the wealth of owners, nothing is going to happen.
Anyway, on to the following points.
1.) Massive untapped market in Northern Asia. Perhaps. But truth be told they're better off focusing on BRIC countries with even bigger potential, and should completely ignore stagnating western countries (Western Europe, the US, and Australia, and Korea/Japan while we're at it.) That said, if you really wanted GW stuff, you can order from GW Japan.
2.) You complain about prices. GW products are luxuries. Luxuries have relatively static price-elasticity. Therefore it is beneficial to GW to increase prices. Additionally, all countries across the world, with the noticeable exception of Japan, are experiencing inflation. That in and of itself is reason to raise prices of GW products.
3.) These changes are thought out strategically, and discussed through many many internal meetings, and probably with the board of directors. The individuals behind the changes have far more knowledge about GW, its current status, and its future than you do. Please do not be so arrogant as to think GW has an "uncertain future," just because you, an insignificant selfish individual does not like what the company is doing, and feels that you need to quit. The reason these decisions are made are to make sure GW can continue in the future. Seriously. What company makes strategic decisions to end their own life.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/20 01:32:29
What 'bout my star?~*
2011/05/20 01:36:15
Subject: Re:Just sent this to Games Workshop. I suggest everybody do the same!!
Pfft, keep on defending them.
It doesn't stop the fact that we can and will say what we want, even if you want to be the company yesman and spokeperson for a bunch of !@#tards. GW is shafting us as customers and players, we don't like it and we're going to do what we want to about it. YOU don't like that, thats tough.
I hate to say this (I didn't want to admit it to myself - denial syndrome) but Grot6 may well be right (you can spare me the 'I told you so' speech though you probably won't ). If GW are responsible for the closure of BoW's Youtube account - I won't be quiet about it...
Pacific wrote:My letter, a little bit more long winded than I intended but I hope will get the point across. It's going in the mail, on paper, back to the UK which I hope will raise its efficacy above that of an email.
I did a quick read of your "letter." I will ask you one question.
.
I think it's possible to reply to points constructively, without coming across as a little overly aggressive. It might be an idea to read through your posts in future, and remember that we are all here to discuss something that we take part in as a pleasurable past time.
1.) Massive untapped market in Northern Asia. Perhaps. But truth be told they're better off focusing on BRIC countries with even bigger potential, and should completely ignore stagnating western countries (Western Europe, the US, and Australia, and Korea/Japan while we're at it.) That said, if you really wanted GW stuff, you can order from GW Japan.
I can't see how removing the potential for any foreign market can be seen as desirable. Yes the market in Korea is in its infancy, but the country's economy is growing, the middle class is expanding rapidly within the country and relatively low costs of living and taxation rates mean that many people have a large amount of disposable income. This situation already exists, there is a huge potential customer base, whereas huge numbers of people within the BRIC exist near or even under the poverty line, and for whom the prospect of obtaining any kind of GW-esque product would be simply unimaginable. I would argue that the creation of a South Korean market in the short term (along with the already existing market in Japan) would provide a solid foundation within Northern Asia for when the burgeoning middle class in China grows enough to make investment their worthwhile.
Yes I can order from GW Japan (or even GWUK for that matter) but the price would be significantly higher (with extra taxation and postage) than I am willing to pay. This is a personal matter, although I know I am not alone in that regard.
2.) You complain about prices. GW products are luxuries. Luxuries have relatively static price-elasticity. Therefore it is beneficial to GW to increase prices. Additionally, all countries across the world, with the noticeable exception of Japan, are experiencing inflation. That in and of itself is reason to raise prices of GW products.
3.) These changes are thought out strategically, and discussed through many many internal meetings, and probably with the board of directors. The individuals behind the changes have far more knowledge about GW, its current status, and its future than you do. Please do not be so arrogant as to think GW has an "uncertain future," just because you, an insignificant selfish individual does not like what the company is doing, and feels that you need to quit. The reason these decisions are made are to make sure GW can continue in the future. Seriously. What company makes strategic decisions to end their own life.
Price increases have been expected, and moaned about, in the past. What makes this one a little different (as I mentioned in my 'letter') is that it comes on the back of a change to a new material which would supposedly have lead to a reduction in production costs. And it's not just the price increase which I think has lead to so much ire this time around, it's the fact that it's been acting in concert with the changes in the game and how the core range rules have been adapted to maximise this disparity. The orc boyz boxset being just one example, a reduction in the number of models per box while keeping them at the same price. The change to WFB 8th edition makes large units of this model type desirable, and yet to make a solid block (and just one unit in your army) the customer is looking at around $150.
Yes it is possible to play the game by spending less money, but the rules are designed specifically for 2000pts+, and find a WD battle report recently that has less than 3000pts a side. Youngsters coming into the hobby will pick the 'horde' of GW product as the ideal option, and their parents will be faced the choice of a monumental bill, or just to say 'no' and pick one of the myriad of other hobbies available to youngsters these days. When I first got into the hobby, there were other options - the MB games for instance, and a variety of skirmish games. It got us in the through the door, and bitten by the 'GW bug', and I am sure that many other gamers of my age group went through the same thing. In relative terms, the prices have long since passed from pocket money territory, and into the realms of major investment. Fewer and fewer parents will take that risk (as evident by the dropping sales), and that can only hurt the long term viability of a company that is attempting to target younger customers. This has been compounded by the switch to one-man stores, which reduces the ability of the GW store to act in an effect way in bringing fresh blood into the hobby.
This brings me to your 3rd point. I advise you to have a read of the blog below and see what you think about the decision making aspect of the company. It does not paint a rosy picture.
Ultimately, I don't think I am being selfish or self centred at all in writing that letter. I genuinely feel these recent policy changes will damage the long term eligibility of the company, and it is for much that reason than my own personal inconvenience I decided to pen (or 12pt Calibri at least) to paper. And, I know that I am not alone in that regard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/20 02:51:14
I am writing to complain about a number of announcements or alterations to business practices made by your company over the last week.
Firstly, you have announced further price increases that are far above the level of inflation. In many cases, products have increased in price by as much as 25%. I don’t believe I really need to draw your attention drawing to the current economic climate, but living costs have increased significantly whilst many people have seen their salaries cut or frozen (in my case, both!). I have read that Games Workshop now believe in charging a premium price for what they believe to be premium products. Such an attitude is reprehensible and disrespectful to customers who have been supporting your company for many years. However, regardless of whether or not I believe I am getting value for money, the simple fact is that you have now priced me out of your hobby.
Secondly, you have announced that your metal miniatures will now be produced in resin which also appears to warrant a price increase despite the fact that resin is a cheaper material. This is a further indication of a pricing strategy based around “willingness to pay” rather than a price that reflects the cost of materials, wages and overheads.
Thirdly, you have banned UK retailers who stock your products from selling outside of the European Union. This prevents hobbyists in Australia and some other countries from buying your products at anything approaching a realistic price. The cost of a Space Marine Tactical squad in Australia is $62 which works out at approximately £42.00. Would you honestly pay £42.00 for 10 small plastic miniatures? Many of us communicate with our fellow Australian hobbyists over the internet and they make a contribution towards the fantastic atmosphere in the Warhammer community. Yet you seem determined to cripple this section of your fan base and drive them out of the hobby.
Fourthly, I understand that you will now only announce up coming releases a week before they go on sale. The veil of secrecy that has descended over your future releases has become an irritation for many Warhammer fans. Not knowing when specific models will become available makes it very difficult to plan and build an army. However, there had been emails two months or so in advance announcing an incoming army or range of products which did at least offer some clues. Now it seems there will be nothing. This appears to me that you simply want people to make knee jerk purchasing decisions at the point when they finally get to see a new release, rather than plan out their hobby and developing structured armies. Aside from anything else, it also shows a greater willingness on your part to ignore the Warhammer community and only speak to us when you have something to sell.
A considered response on these matters would be greatly appreciated. I have been collecting and playing Warhammer for over twenty years and though I have no wish to leave the hobby, I refuse to support a company that appears to be only interested in satisfying its shareholders at the expense of listening and communicating with its customers.
lukewild1982 wrote:What a shame about so many of the reactions of people. I do not really undersand most of your points of opposition. I do not have access to personal accounts of Games Workshop but have enough business knowledge that to realise that releasing a new range in miniatures will result in an influx of sales and I am not really sure where you point in questioning that would be. Your moaning at the fact that people are ranting and seem to be blind to the fact that your moaning about people ranting.
I don't really play games anymore and merely enjoy painting and modeling from that vast array of companies we have available to us, so in many ways I have already protested with my wallet.
Apparently my opinion on White Dwarf is not the case and its full of fascintating articles and in depth writings, I am deeply sorry for missing the issue that contained this in the last 3 years and would love a back issue if anyone has it.
Some people have attacked this thread and for reasons I still can't really see. If you firm fans of GW and want to defend them then thats fine and completely your right to do so, also I see many many reasons for you to do just that. Sadly though your talking to people in an extremely rude and oppinutive way and I think maybe this thread that I started needs to be closed before it gets out of hand. We are attacking GW for the reasons we have all stated, your attacking individuals for their opinions. I thinks that puts it simply enough. I urge anyone to stand up and be heard when they feel that things are not being done correctly and I urge those to write to the ones responsible for that.
There's this new trend the last few years that I've noticed in gaming circles that I call "extreme fanboyism." I first noticed it in the MMORPG universe, but it's definitely spread to other games. It's when people will blindly defend objectively terrible things because they like the corporation that makes them. It's a really weird phenomenon, and has pretty scary social implications that people are so willing to blindly defend corporations.
As for me personally, I've spent the last 18 months slowly collecting a Space Wolves army. Luckily, I have all the metals I need for the army already. This weekend I am picking up the last models I need to "finish" my 2500 points, and calling it a day. Next year I was actually planning on spending my tax return to pick up an entire second army at retail, either Sisters of Battle if they actually came out, or Orks. Those plans have been cancelled, as I can't support a company that treats their customers with this much utter contempt. An annual price increase is bad enough... but couple it with lowering your production costs (and model quality, imo) and that's where I need to draw the line.
There's people in this thread defending GW, claiming that we don't know what their profit margins are like, and surely their only responsibility is short-term profit. I have a hard time believing the former, as other companies are consistently putting out great models at lower prices. As for the latter, I think failing to plan for the long-term should be punished, not rewarded.
2011/05/20 19:33:19
Subject: Just sent this to Games Workshop. I suggest everybody do the same!!
Concern: 40K is a hobby that I enjoy but the increasing cost and apparent sloppiness of the rules updates appears to be causing a general disaffection with 40K.
Appearances:
1. GW is doing a ham-fisted money grab. This may not be the fact but increased unit prices, decreased model counts per box and decreased rules cost per fig lead to an increased cost of investment to get a viable force.
2. GW lack of proper playtesting OR GW desire to create an artificial desire for new product. The latest and greatest given ham-fisted or untested advantages leads to an increased desire to buy the flavor of the month but eventually leads to disaffection once people realize that their significant investment will be rendered ineffective within 2 or 3 later releases.
Risk: My continued support of this as a hobby is contingent on other opponents maintaining an interest in this hobby. Because of the increased cost and apparent disregard to the aforementioned concerns/appearances, I am concluding that the 40K universe is at risk.
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2011/05/20 19:47:01
Subject: Re:Just sent this to Games Workshop. I suggest everybody do the same!!
Please increase prices more. I am having difficulty finding enough people to play Warmachines with. I think that if you could increase your prices by at least $3 per item more; I would be able to find more people willing to try Privateer Press products. I also appreciate every thing you have done to alienate female gamers. My wife is very interested in the "Haley" war caster available from PP. I am excited to introduce her to a game in which she can field a majority female army in order to satisfy her own imagination.
Please ignore your player base. Raise prices.
Thank you,
SS
PS.
This is not a joke. If GW is going to destroy their Witch Hunters line and ruin the game for me and mine. Then I want it to go away entirely. I need people willing to play the games I am interested in and that means the total and utter destruction of all GW products. Keep it up GW!
). If 
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Da red ones go fastur!!!