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lord marcus wrote:


Why exactly are they horrible?

Kenshin did a good job discribing it, but here is also a problem with WGF. Often there renders are ten times better then the final result. I hope this won't be the case but I have yet to see different.

JOHIRA wrote:Well, yeah, but on the real stuff the ridges look like they'd stick out at most a few millimeters. On the mini it looks like they stick out a few inches. I think in my elementary school music room we had some percussive instruments that you rubbed with sticks that resemble his armor. He could tuck his spare pens into the ridges so after the battle he's ready to write a haiku. I'm not criticizing the design, I'm criticizing the execution.

Ah, conceded. I didn't realise it was so over-exaggerated on the ashigaru. It's strange because the samurai hit a nice balance between realism and visibility on its ridges.

kenshin620 wrote:Oh btw I decided to ask TMP about the telephone yaris. They actually say this isnt too far off. They still look thick too me though

My shortstaff (not quite a rokushaku-bo, it's only 5'8" tall) is big enough in diameter that I can just barely touch my thumb to my middle finger, and I have big hands. Remember, we're talking about shafts that you don't want to bend easily (the better to kill you with), not flexible shafts like you see in a modern kung-fu movie (the better to NOT kill you with).

Yep. Lion's on the money about the shaft. They are thicker and heavier than you might expect.

Bo, jo, hanbo etc are 1.25-1.5" diameter. Your TMP boys' claims that at least 2" diameter is proper reveal them to be a pair of mall ninjas who raided the hardware store for pine dowelling. And if there really were yari with 2.5" diameter shafts like the sculpt - and I'm not aware of even temple offerings with shafts that thick - isn't it funny that none of them have survived as antiques or appear in any illustrations?

Making the shafts as rediculously thick as they have does no one any favours: Were they realistically-proportioned but fragile, like the Perry pikemen, then those wanting sturdier weapons could replace the shafts with brass rod. Were they slightly-oversize, like with the yari samurai, then those wanting better-scaled weapons could replace the shafts with brass rod. But with the super-oversize shaft on the yari ashigaru you get a super-oversized grip and a super-oversized spearhead, so they look ugly no matter what you do.

Sorry, but you are WAY to harsh on these previews.
Sure there are some flaws (of which I have pointed out quite a few) - but the overall feel is, IMHO, actually up to par with Perry (which have one of the top five best Samurai ranges available).

Here is a page I published several years ago:
http://hem.spray.se/kendoka/samurai/ashigaru.htm

Taking some of WF previous releases into account, this line MIGHT well end up rubbish - but IF they manage to produce affordable plastic miniatures at the quality shown in the previews (with crisp, easily painted detail etc.) it will be a Smash Hit - and I'll buy a few hundred to boost my armies


FYI:
I have 20 years of experience (somewhere between 5-10.000 hours in the dojo) practicing mainly kendo
but also iaido, jodo, naginata, tameshigiri and kyudo (but neither yari nor teppo).
I own katanas, kyudo bows and several naginata (both new and from mid 1400),
have been collecting samurai miniatures since 1995 - and books on the subject for even longer.
Also I believe I have a rather good understanding on both sculpting and the human anatomy.
In total, I would claim that I should be rather capable to judge these previews.

Hmm this is quite odd. Nowhere on their official site do they show their updated ashigaru box set. Yet they do on warstore. Looks like they split into two boxes of 25 each instead of one with 30. One is for melee and the other is for ranged. Still dont like the 3D colored art. Also I dont know whats up with the "mirror" box style. Wouldn't it be better to have all the text in similar spots?

Most interesting it would be to see why they made the split.

lord marcus wrote:Most interesting it would be to see why they made the split.

My theory is probably they could not fit in all the sprues to have a completely homogeneous unit of either type in one set

Theres finally some actual models now. Its typical WGF details. Not sure on how accurate some of those poses are






More http://wargamesfactory.com/announcements/assembled-samurai

After seeing the actual models I have to stand by my first assessment and say these are just not good. The poses just feel off to me and seem unatural at best, also it has been my experience that WGF models faces are often flat when it comes too paint time. They look good in pictures but when you go to paint the models often they are devoid of a lot of true detail. I was hoping to like these but saddly I personally think I won't carry then.

Need to see some stood up in a row for a comparison shot with other companies.

These would be OK if there were no other ones out there for use, but how many historical samuries are we seeing out there? None to many, if any. Most of them have some demons and moster stuff attached to thier ranges, leading to these guys as filler models for the other games.

The poses are incredibly stiff.

And this guy's leg is magically protruding through his armour...

insaniak wrote:The poses are incredibly stiff.

And this guy's leg is magically protruding through his armour...

Oh my god, it's like a bad suit of armor in Oblivion.

Sprue shot is out now for those interested. Looks like there are a lot of fragile, finnicky parts

lord marcus wrote:Most interesting it would be to see why they made the split.

I think it's a pretty clear example of why give folks two options when you can sell two kits. I don't hold that against them, as it's still a good deal per fig, but I don't doubt that's why they made the change.

insaniak wrote:The poses are incredibly stiff.

And this guy's leg is magically protruding through his armour...

That is truely terrible. What kind of quality control in in place when that kind of a flaw gets though!

kenshin620 wrote:Theres finally some actual models now. Its typical WGF details. Not sure on how accurate some of those poses are

Guy on the right has the same bad pants, in reverse. What the heck is going on over at WGF?

kenshin620 wrote:Sprue shot is out now for those interested. Looks like there are a lot of fragile, finnicky parts

True, but that was going to be the case no matter what when dealing with soldiers with these kinds of weapons and decorative elements. Looks like it's broken up nicely for those who want to kitbash.

Overall, I am very unimpressed. Some of the details are nice and they give you alot of options in the kit, but these seem like a step down from the vikings which -while simpler and with some small shortcomings- didn't have the stiff poses and unforgivable leg/armor flaws of these figs.

Again, WGF proves that they're either incapable or unwilling to have sharp-cornered details on their miniatures. It's like all their parts inexplicably were tossed into a tumbler.

Still not a awful batch of bits, but the lack of sharp details really limits how many bits I can use before the model becomes sub-par.

That leg clipping through the armor is just inexcusable. That alone kills my faith that WGF cares about their product.

Isnt WGF a Chinese company now? Who else makes plastic Samurai?

Apparently, their "justification". Still not good enough for me though

Regarding the legs in question, please refer to Samurai rotating image #1 on our web site (http://www.wargamesfactory.com/announcements/3d-samurai-preview). The Samurai’s leg comes out between the two sections of the thigh armor (Kusazuri). When fighting on foot most Samurai did not wear (Haidate). The legs were done in two separate pieces to achieve maximum detail. The line where the two leg pieces glue together may be causing this confusion.

Maximum being subjective

kenshin620 wrote:The legs were done in two separate pieces to achieve maximum detail.

Well, that was a fail...

On closer inspection, it actually appears that the leg isn't protruding through the armour... The joint where the two leg halves meet up makes it look like the full plate finishes in the middle of his body, and then the next plate starts and has the leg sticking through it. Looking at the original render, what is actually happening is that the joint is running through the plate. What appears to be a second plate is the rest of the first one, and the edge of that plate is pushing up against the leg... but because of the soft detailing, that edge isn't real clear. So one plate pushing against a leg, with a joint running up it becomes two plates, one of which appears to run behind the leg.

SO not a total fail of sculpting, just a side-effect of soft detail on the final model.

So ultimately still not really acceptable.

I don't buy thier explaination, unless there's historical precedence for having a split in the protective over-tunic-armor piece (whatever it's called) over one leg and not the other.

Not buying it either. There does not appear to be an edge that is resting against the outstretched leg. Take a look at the second picture. The leg also appears to be going through the armor, and the mould line is nowhere near it. The "gap between components" explanation sounds like crap to me. Also, why don't they just post another angle? That would solve the problem.

Nice Samurai. Very realistic.

Guildsman wrote:Not buying it either. There does not appear to be an edge that is resting against the outstretched leg.

It is there in the render. The cast just blunts the edge so it merges into the leg.

Also, why don't they just post another angle?

Why bother? Whatever angle you show them from, they're still going to be stiff and awkward, with soft details and an indeterminate scale...

I received my order of 7 boxes of samurai & 1 free sprue (for a total of 180 minis!) and I must say I am pleased. The renders & 3-ups do not do the actual 28mm mini justice. They seem to have more detail, there is no leg going through armor, and the bits options are abundant!

I'd recommend at least a box or two for those wanting to convert a Warhammer army into either Nippon or a samurai styled army. Even Space Marines!

I've gamed & modeled for many years (decades) and with the right skill & some conversion work these can look really really good.

At least they are cheap and will fill ranks quick for large armies!

I'll post painted pics soon!

krazynadechukr wrote:I received my order of 7 boxes of samurai & 1 free sprue (for a total of 180 minis!) and I must say I am pleased. The renders & 3-ups do not do the actual 28mm mini justice. They seem to have more detail, there is no leg going through armor, and the bits options are abundant!

I'd recommend at least a box or two for those wanting to convert a Warhammer army into either Nippon or a samurai styled army. Even Space Marines!

I've gamed & modeled for many years (decades) and with the right skill & some conversion work these can look really really good.

At least they are cheap and will fill ranks quick for large armies!

I'll post painted pics soon!

I'll be looking forward to seeing pictures of models people have built, painted or not, so please do post.

I kinda like the idea. move some bits around and you can make chosen and cultists.... But I really need to see the final models first.

krazynadechukr wrote:
At least they are cheap and will fill ranks quick for large armies!

I'll post painted pics soon!

I'd be equally interested in unpainted pics. If you're willing to post some of those also, it'd be much appreciated.

Personally I like the artwork. Tell me though, did the Ashigaru make a habit of only recruiting people with incredibly large heads? Or do they just have very small bodies?

H.B.M.C. wrote:... did the Ashigaru make a habit of only recruiting people with incredibly large heads? Or do they just have very small bodies?

After seeing antique japanese armour IRL I would think the latter is true...

... but I think Dixon Miniatures is betting on the "large heads" idea:
http://hem.spray.se/kendoka/samurai/ashigaru.htm

I got some WGF Hoplites and a Persian sprue from The War Store during their Black Friday sale. Very nice looking and affordable. People are complaining about the low-budget art on WGF boxes? Perhaps they'd like to pay more for the whole box of models to have that improved. The only thing that counts is how good are the models. The WGF Shock Troops, Hoplites, etc. cost a fraction of what plastic minis cost from many other companies, I have no complaints.

Well ashigaru are out, two flavors of bowmen/gunners (they say archibus???), and long yari (huge banner is HUGE, why you take so much space , also you better look elsewhere if you want other weapons)





And BoW has a review of their samurai. Keep in mind this is BoW


http://www.beastsofwar.com/historical-battles/ancient-battles/wargames-factor-samurai-unboxed/

Checked the review yesterday at BOW and I must say there's some nice bits in there.