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I don't like the idea of people using tax dollars to pay for drugs, but I also don't like a lot of gak the gov't spends money on. What pisses me off on a very personal level is the busloads of people from Chicago and other parts unknown who show up in Minneapolis on the first of the month to grab their checks from the State of Minnesota and then head home to spend the money.

Crablezworth wrote:If I couldn't even get a job at mcdonalds I could see myself selling drugs on a corner.

If you can't get a job at McDonalds you need to reconsider your life choices since the 3rd grade.

Troy wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:If I couldn't even get a job at mcdonalds I could see myself selling drugs on a corner.

If you can't get a job at McDonalds you need to reconsider your life choices since the 3rd grade.

...and thanks for joining us as we return to our program Myths That Won't Die. Today Troy shows us a myth, that anyone can get a job at McDonald's if they just apply.

I think this comes form them hiring teens in High School. It becomes the idea that anyone can work there. Whether or not job openings exist is unimportant because it just a fast food joint, right? I have a friend who was a regional director for McD's and he would go off anytime people acted like fast food places were just there to hire people that had no where else to go. As if it was there job to give anyone a job because people sneer at them.

Troy wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:If I couldn't even get a job at mcdonalds I could see myself selling drugs on a corner.

If you can't get a job at McDonalds you need to reconsider your life choices since the 3rd grade.

Well, these days, you can overqualify for a job at mcdonalds too easily.

This is quite the interesting subject that has a sigificant impact on our lives. Usually the first thing to do in situations like this is determine what exactly welfare is and why it was created in the first place.

From the bit of research I did, welfare actually started early in civilization, ~1000 AD. From their (old civilizations) view, welfare is just the idea of helping those who were poor. A simple and humble idea, those who are well off should help others who are in a troubled time during their lives. The way funds and payment was transfered between those with money to the poor was sketchy at best as records were not kept well or at all until the Medieval era. But during this time, there was no system set up by the government to give money from their coffers to those in need but instead was given to a paticular group (like a church or individual) who distributed it to the locals. It was not until the 19th century when Europe established the Poor Law Amendment Act which introduced workhouses. These workhouses were places to provide jobs and accommodation to those who could not support themselves. At this point is when an organized system for various states around the world began to be introduced.

Now that we are talking about the United States here, interestingly but understandably the US did not have a welfare system until the Great Depression. Much of the system today was created in response to the Great Depression. At this point, all welfare money was raised and distributed by the federal government to the States. This gave no incentive for States to release people off of welfare as they lost federal funding when this happened. But in 1996, Bill Clinton signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act which gave reasons and purpose for those on welfare to get off and contribute to society by, among other things, giving a flat rate of federal aid to the States. According to data, which can be found on Wikipedia: Welfare, from 1996 to 2006, welfare payments have decreased, which was the point of the whole legislation. Critics explain that the reasons why welfare payments decreased was because of the strong economy from 1996 to the early 2000s. But in 2009, new legislation, the Economic Stimulus Act of 2009 or American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 or ARRA would overturn the 1996 act by returning federal funding back to being based of the number of individuals using welfare. This is based off the Keynesian macroeconomic theory that economic resessions, which private spending is lower, should be picked up by the government by increasing spending, which is a major factor in the balloning national debt this year.

With that small bit of historical information, I think I feel like I can answer this question a little bit better. The idea for welfare seems to stim from the idea that we generally care for those who are a bad spot. So with that in mind, I am inclinded to say that drug testing welfare recipients is not a good idea as it adds needless complications to those who are already in a bad spot. But as we know, there are those out there who take advantage of welfare because they do not aspire to do anything with their lives, so they will gladly accept money to continue a selfish existance. So on that fact, drug testing would help weed out those who are using the money in ways not ment to be used. So, a direct glance at just adding drug testing to the equation does not give a straight answer to if we need to include this or not. Instead of a drug test, though, I believe we need to return back to the original idea signed by Bill Clinton and focus on giving incentives to hire those in the lower socioeconomic status. While this maybe ultimately not solve the issue with abusers using the system, it would ween many off of welfare which is a win-win situation for everyone in this nation.

So to answer your question, "Is drug testing welfare applications unconstitutional?"...I am inclined to say that I am not sure. But we should be looking at other reasons as to why those who are on welfare continue to stay on welfare and abuse it instead of adding additional rules to the system.

I was laid off from Target (where I unloaded trucks and stocked shelves) a year and a half ago, when I already was a licensed attorney.

There's even a theory about economics call the "Hot Waitress Index." The idea is, especially in big cities, attractive women can find work as hostesses, models, promoters, etc. in good times. In bad times, that dries up, and they start looking for waiting work.

It trickles down, so that even your local Applebees now has the girls that used to staff the hip bistro or upscale bar.

Once again I find myself wishing that I was a pretty girl.

Ahtman wrote:

Troy wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:If I couldn't even get a job at mcdonalds I could see myself selling drugs on a corner.

If you can't get a job at McDonalds you need to reconsider your life choices since the 3rd grade.

...and thanks for joining us as we return to our program Myths That Won't Die. Today Troy shows us a myth, that anyone can get a job at McDonald's if they just apply.

I think this comes form them hiring teens in High School. It becomes the idea that anyone can work there. Whether or not job openings exist is unimportant because it just a fast food joint, right? I have a friend who was a regional director for McD's and he would go off anytime people acted like fast food places were just there to hire people that had no where else to go. As if it was there job to give anyone a job because people sneer at them.

Someone who doesn't speak English and has no formal education can get a McDonalds job here, any swinging dick born here can do it. If you can't, best to give up on that game called life right now.

What's amazing about capitalism is the second someone receives a pay increases, most people believe they deserve it and couldn't comprehend taking a cent less.

The most money I've ever made in a day was about $2200 and I can assure you I didn't deserve it. But deserving it or not didn't matter, it was pure causality.

remilia_scarlet wrote:

Troy wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:If I couldn't even get a job at mcdonalds I could see myself selling drugs on a corner.

If you can't get a job at McDonalds you need to reconsider your life choices since the 3rd grade.

Well, these days, you can overqualify for a job at mcdonalds too easily.

"I see you have a bachelor's degree and are a certified geologist. Sorry but all our employees have at least a PhD."

Old oil patch joke circa 1983.

Crablezworth wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Ive been in the DHS a few times in my life, trust me, they would save ALOT more money doing that, and dumping people that cant NOT fail the tests, then just continuing to pay them hundreds every month in money

I'm just curious, when those individuals with drug addictions/habits get kicked off social assistance and end up incarcerated, who's paying for that? Is it cheaper or more expensive now?

So your way to fix it, is to just ignore it and give them free munchies?? Seriously? You wouldnt want to know what my plan would be if I were in charge, itd be considered pretty terrible, but it would work

Monster Rain wrote:Once again I find myself wishing that I was a pretty girl.

I often wish you were a pretty girl as well.

Troy wrote:Someone who doesn't speak English and has no formal education can get a McDonalds job here, any swinging dick born here can do it. If you can't, best to give up on that game called life right now.

Again, you show your ignorance. MCDonalds would actually prefer that other guy because they know what his salary requirements are going to be (hint: less than a college graduate). There is a reason McD's has High School students and the people you mention. They don't just hire anyone. In fact having a college degree will exclude you most likely. In this economic climate they have more people applying than they have jobs. they may always need people, but that is due to high turnover, but they are still have more applicants than positions generally. Obliviously YMMV depending on location, but in general it isn't as simple as you are imagining it to be. Your statement is also comes off as vaguely xenophobic and/or racist.

Oh, and I know they don't always higher native speakers, but I haven't run into ones that spoke no English whatsoever. At least not on the front line, but if the people making the food choose to speak another language to each other why would I care anyway as long as the person that took my order took my order right and they made the food properly? Who cares if the guy putting the sammich together isn't the best English speaker in the world? More often than not I get my food and it is right and it isn't as if I speak every language fluently.

Yea actually its alot harder for anyone with more then a highschool diploma to get a job at a McDonalds or similar.

KingCracker wrote:Yea actually its alot harder for anyone with more then a highschool diploma to get a job at a McDonalds or similar.

it's hard to get a job at mcdonalds with just a highschool diploma. I never understood why.

I just saw an ad on TV, there is a government program that is now providing people with free cell phones and service! What the F!

I had some lady run up a tab at my bar and try to pay it with one of her child support cards. I didn't even notice what it was until it was rejected. I told her she must have given me the wrong card, her response was "No that's the right card, it always works at Applebee's".

It must work there because they also serve food.

This lady is a secretary at a law office, has like three kids probably with the same amount of baby daddies (hopefully someone is watching them because she is constantly at my bar until 2am or until some guy is drunk enough to take her home) and just got free housing! She's making a decent wage and is still sucking off the government teet. Not only that but she is apparently routinely eating and drinking at Applebee's on my tax money.

I don't know what is worse, that the government is so blind that can do it, or that she has such an overinflated sense of entitlement that she believes that she deserves it.

I WANT WELFARE REFORM!

We have cards like that, but it's illegal to use them for anything other than fresh produce. No alcohol, snacks, smokes or sweets are the main things it mentions.

The problem was a lot of the staff just tallied her items up and took the total of the voucher off (£3.50), even though her eligible items came only to about £1.40 and the rest was booze and cigarettes. This only stopped when a new staff member questioned it, calling me over and we both read it and said "Nope, can't use it for the Lamberts".

Cue hissy fit about how she was allowed to use it prior, cue me pointing out the bit telling me to call the police.

But eh, she's only one of many.

KingCracker wrote:Yea actually its alot harder for anyone with more then a highschool diploma to get a job at a McDonalds or similar.

if you want more than a McDonald's salary yes.

Corporate welfare reform would be nice too. It's all well and good to whine about people abusing the system but some perspective is necessary. This lady sounds like a real piece of work but I don't hear any complaints about oil companies getting billions in subsidies.

That's like screaming at an ant eating crumbs off your floor while not noticing the dudes stealing your tv.

That's what I can't stand about america, tax the rich, for the love god.

Crablezworth wrote:Corporate welfare reform would be nice too. It's all well and good to whine about people abusing the system but some perspective is necessary. This lady sounds like a real piece of work but I don't hear any complaints about oil companies getting billions in subsidies.

That's like screaming at an ant eating crumbs off your floor while not noticing the dudes stealing your tv.

That's what I can't stand about america, tax the rich, for the love god.

They aren't subsidies they are tax breaks, but otherwise you're 100% correct.

Crablezworth wrote:
That's what I can't stand about america, tax the rich, for the love god.

I'm liking the sound of The Love God.

Max Brooks (Author of WWZ as many know in that other thread) wrote that many Americans don't support taxing the rich more, due to seeing themselves as the Rich in potentia.

I have no idea on the trueness of this, but it sounded nice.

Troy wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Yea actually its alot harder for anyone with more then a highschool diploma to get a job at a McDonalds or similar.

if you want more than a McDonald's salary yes.

This isn;t that difficult, and multiple people have stated it. If you have above a HS diploma, it is actually more difficult to get a job at fast food. We haven't been saying you would get a crappy low paying job at fast food, but that you wouldn't get the job at all. At this point I can only assume your stubbornness is just you having a spot of fun with us or that you have a better chance at getting a job at McDonald's than those trying to explain this to you.

Ahtman wrote:

Troy wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Yea actually its alot harder for anyone with more then a highschool diploma to get a job at a McDonalds or similar.

if you want more than a McDonald's salary yes.

This isn;t that difficult, and multiple people have stated it. If you have above a HS diploma, it is actually more difficult to get a job at fast food. We haven't been saying you would get a crappy low paying job at fast food, but that you wouldn't get the job at all. At this point I can only assume your stubbornness is just you having a spot of fun with us or that you have a better chance at getting a job at McDonald's than those trying to explain this to you.

Having actually been in this position, one can indeed downscale with creativity.

Troy wrote:Having actually been in this position, one can indeed downscale with creativity.

Putting you then at 1 of 4 or more people wanting that position, if you are lucky. So now not only are you having to lie to get a job at McDonald's, you also still have no guarantee of getting a job there. Which goes back to pointing out how your insight into the situation is poorly thought out.

MrDwhitey wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:
That's what I can't stand about america, tax the rich, for the love god.

I'm liking the sound of The Love God.

Max Brooks (Author of WWZ as many know in that other thread) wrote that many Americans don't support taxing the rich more, due to seeing themselves as the Rich in potentia.

I have no idea on the trueness of this, but it sounded nice.

I think that's true, I mean mtv has a show about showing off rich people houses/cars/stuff. It may as well be consumer porn. There's plenty of churches and televangelists that preach the gospel of prosperity, which basically equates to give the church money, pray a lot and one day you'll be rich. There's another side that seems to think the american dream is alive and well and the existence of even one self made millionaire/billionare is proof that anyobe can do it and there's no such thing as luck or circumstance.

Look at the tea party, the people running the show are billionaires who hate regulation of any kind and they've managed to convince poor to middle class people that government is useless but they should make sure to vote tea party, the president is a secret muslim socialist, every wealthy person is somehow a job creater and poor people are the reason the economy is bad...

mattyrm wrote: There was a story on the BBC website that said 97% of disabled people on benefits could work.

Can you find a link to this? I always like to read reports from the Department of Made-Up Statistics.

People can make up statistics to prove anything, 14% of people know that.

Nah, people can misinterpret and abuse statistics to artificially lend weight to any argument they want.
Sadly, only 5% of people know this.

Troy wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Yea actually its alot harder for anyone with more then a highschool diploma to get a job at a McDonalds or similar.

if you want more than a McDonald's salary yes.

Here's an example from my experience.

After I graduated from college I moved back home, and tried to get a job at one of the local restaurants as I wanted something temporary. I didn't have a car, so that limited my choices, but there was a pretty good selection within the 5 or so miles I was willing to bike. I started applying to places like Applebes's and Fridays, and a couple family owned spots only to be turned down every time. I then moved on to fast food, I don't remember all of the places I tried, but it included at least Subway, KFC, and McDonalds (all very close to my parents' place): all of these places turned me down.

After this I applied for a position as a personal trainer at a nearby health club, I had no experience in PT, and was not certified, but I was reasonably fit and had been active in athletics for something like 10 years at that point. Not only did they offer me the position in the first interview, I got three more offers at the next three interviews for similar positions at different clubs; all offering to pay for my certification. Aside from the difference in industry, the major difference between McDonald's and these health clubs was that McDonald's paid $8.25 an hour, with irregular hours, while the PT position paid $30 an hour with 30 guaranteed hours per week.

The health clubs had reason to offer me the positions, because they could expect me to stay on for some time as $30/hour was a decent wage, McDonald's had no incentive to hire me because they knew I would be gone, without notice, as soon as I found another job. I mean, it wasn't like I would have given a damn about my manager's opinion of me.

Yep, have to agree with dogma here - I was recently turned down for a part-time (I'm a student) job at McDonalds. I've just started a new job that is far better-paid, and way more challenging (building lighting rigs, PA systems, video-walls etc. in concert venues), and I got that just on the strength of my CV and experience, with only a cursory interview. The guy basically told me I had the job when he called to invite me.

Funnily enough, most employers try to match potential employees with the available vacancies, based on skills and experience - McD's, being a multi-billion dollar international juggernaut is no exception. They don't just take anyone.

The other thing to note is that, for many people, while McDonald's might pay you enough to survive, it is still tantamount to white space on your resume in that a lot of employers will regard it as tacit to unemployment. Now, you can work at McDonald's and, say, intern somewhere relevant to your career. But, as should be obvious, that is easier said than done when considering conflicting schedules, especially when that high school kid applying for his first job doesn't have any such issue.