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Augustus wrote:I like unpainted armies, it makes it easy to spot the people who aren't worth playing! You're not the only one op!

Painting armies is work. It's not done solely for personal enjoyment, it's also done to share in a community, and specifically with an opponent, and possibly spectators. The idea, that 'I don't like work, and for me the hobby is just play' is just a flacid excuse for being undisciplined. Go play a PC, console, board or card game then, there's loads of Warhammer ones now! Painting is clearly an important part of the hobby.

I wont play people with unpainted armies.

I never play anything unpainted.

Unpainted armies are why I have essentially abandoned Privateer Press games (even in PP sanctioned events), usually those people can't even paint 3 models much less the 75 or so needed for 40k. That is truly pathetic.

I don't care what other people do for fun, especially in their own space but in stores and in public, it's a terrible showing. To the op, you are right, it's frustrating, but know the world is peopled with peasants, and you are not one of them, or alone, KEEP PAINTING Brother!

The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

augustus5 wrote:

Augustus wrote:I like unpainted armies, it makes it easy to spot the people who aren't worth playing! You're not the only one op!

Painting armies is work. It's not done solely for personal enjoyment, it's also done to share in a community, and specifically with an opponent, and possibly spectators. The idea, that 'I don't like work, and for me the hobby is just play' is just a flacid excuse for being undisciplined. Go play a PC, console, board or card game then, there's loads of Warhammer ones now! Painting is clearly an important part of the hobby.

I wont play people with unpainted armies.

I never play anything unpainted.

Unpainted armies are why I have essentially abandoned Privateer Press games (even in PP sanctioned events), usually those people can't even paint 3 models much less the 75 or so needed for 40k. That is truly pathetic.

I don't care what other people do for fun, especially in their own space but in stores and in public, it's a terrible showing. To the op, you are right, it's frustrating, but know the world is peopled with peasants, and you are not one of them, or alone, KEEP PAINTING Brother!

The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

I'd say he's more defining his hobby. You don't like his hobby so to you he's an elitist jerk. To him your the lazy peasant who can't be bothered to paint.

Luckily, both of you can still go have fun, and find people to play. Although, I have to admit, if you both walked in on the same day, I'd play the guy with the painted army. Nicer scenery to look at as I get massacred.

Skarshak wrote:As much as i'd like to see a painted army, i can totally understand if its not all painted up! Many opponents i play against are in various stages of completing their respective armies... especially those of us who play horde armies!

What I do hate however is proxies... it just erkz me! But thats another chat for another time/thread!

This is probably the closest anyones got on here to sharing my opinion. It's less about unfinished and more about lack of progress that I dislike.

I play the game because I enjoy modeling and I get a second use out of these models; if there was no game I know I would not be spending $60 per tank that's for sure! I'd go buy cheaper tanks with more detail from Trumpeter or tanks with INSANE detail and size for around the same price from Tamiya. As the models build up in my Space Marine "To Do" box, I see a VERY large number of hours of work a head of me as NEARLY my entire 2nd Company is in there; plus the makings for 1st, and a feeble start to 7th. And my guard army has many MANY models calling out to me to finish; there is easily 2500pts fully painted in my Guard, and probably another 1000 sitting beside me on a shelf , and if I go digging into the infantry boxes in the closet with the Marine box... Maybe I SHOULD look at painting forces for selling... anyway. I know and understand the pains of painting, mostly cause I enjoy em. I like the beauty this game can show; SPECIALLY when I have my camera about and there are painted models.

When I scroll down to Battle Reports on this site, and see "APOC PICS HEAVY" and I open it and see an entire game of unpainted scenery and models, I admit I breath a couple curses about these players and the poster. But when I go to the local game store for a throw down match, I don't generally drag my camera along. I do prefer using painted models 100% but sometimes, you only have SO much time in the month to play/paint so you gotta take some exception to just have some fun.



I think one of the discouraging things to new comers is the number of people that both piss and moan about having to paint their models and those that piss and moan about people NOT painting their models. There's a growing lack of encouragement in 40k towards painting. I find it *&^$ing hilarious when I walk into the store and someone goes "GUIS YOU GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT!" and I see them showing some 50 year old product/technique from model rail building thinking that this was just invented for war game models. One that springs to mind was when GW started to release their new washes recently... well that's a couple years ago now; regardless I had a good laugh in a store when some the guys were freaking out over it.


I was happy with the local GW's rule of no unpainted armies on the front tables, have to use tables in the back if you have even a single unpainted model ((of course when nothing's going on they let it slide)).

augustus5 wrote: The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

Heh, I chuckled when I read 'baboon'

So, are you saying a hobby cannot be defined or perhaps that anyone can define any hobby any way they want?

J'santai Khan wrote:NOW WAIT JUST A MINUTE HERE FELLOWS!!! You mean to tell me that after spending tremendous amounts of time & energy on painting ALL of my minis, that it is perfectly 'OK' to walk in to the FLGS and plunk down minis that are not even primered!?!?! WHO KNEW?!?!?

Don't worry, you're still ahead of the game. people with unpainted armies get to play on the tables with cardboard scenery and unpainted GW grey plastic trees. We reserve the nicely modeled scenery for the guys with painted armies.

Joking: I'd never put unpainted scenery on my tables. Peasants, paupers, and Princes all get to play on the nice ones.

Ssgt Carl wrote:

augustus5 wrote: The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

Heh, I chuckled when I read 'baboon'

So, are you saying a hobby cannot be defined or perhaps that anyone can define any hobby any way they want?

Anyone can define the way they want.
But they also should respect and tolerate other definitions.

Especially the part where i mentioned, warhammer is not built upon the painters alone, but the very different type of customers
that made GW nice and fat as it is today.

Dude, I'm the OP. What I field will always be fully painted. I don't have a single figure atm that I have not painted (except maybe the weapons on my Wave Serpent, doing that this games night). I meant that our ever expanding collections are works in progress.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Artanis wrote:
Paints are so prohibitively expensive though

$6USD for a regular GW pot over here means every time I think about buying paint I look at more models I could be buying instead.

I'll get around to painting eventually, it's just a huge investment in time and patience. Plus it takes ages to get half decent.


Spend a saturday or two at your store's painting table. It's what I did, haven't bought a single thing on painting except for a fine detail brush.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/29 14:00:18

Look he has at least purchased one brush, and mooched paints brushes primer etc while at a retail business. how dare we not fall into line with his way of thinking.

I see posts like this one and hope that it is someone being a TROLL. Because it is actually better than the other option of this guy being as socially inept as the tone of his posts would indicate.

Artanis wrote:Paints are so prohibitively expensive though

$6USD for a regular GW pot over here means every time I think about buying paint I look at more models I could be buying instead.

I'll get around to painting eventually, it's just a huge investment in time and patience. Plus it takes ages to get half decent.

This guy... is so respectable. I really ought to mail you all my paints when i quit warhammer.
You really deserve it.

I exalted your post but im not really sure what it does xD

Ssgt Carl wrote:

augustus5 wrote: The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

Heh, I chuckled when I read 'baboon'

So, are you saying a hobby cannot be defined or perhaps that anyone can define any hobby any way they want?

I think that the hobby is defined by the player. Every person has their own idea of what the hobby is too them. If somebody chooses to play with a few friends, ultimately they must decide upon some guidelines for house rules, or ways to determine rules questions, whether or not they would use the INAT FAQ, and whether they have paint/comp guidelines. The bigger the group or club becomes, the more important it is to establish these types of guidelines. Tournament organizers also need to set guidelines based upon what they want, or what they think will work best for the people who will be coming to the event. So, the hobby must be defined within those parameters. The hobby need not be defined for every player everywhere, and that is what I'm hearing from some of the people here.

Normally, I would not judge somebody for the way they choose to play the game or define their hobby, but there have been a couple people in this thread, that are defining the hobby for everyone, and doing it in a nasty sort of way. We all have found something we enjoy about wargaming, we all don't like the same things about wargaming. What I have done, with the baboon comment, is not to judge somebody based on how they enjoy their hobby, but to rather judge one who sought to judge others based on their hobby preferences.

@_@ nicely written

theunicorn wrote:

Dude, I'm the OP. What I field will always be fully painted. I don't have a single figure atm that I have not painted (except maybe the weapons on my Wave Serpent, doing that this games night). I meant that our ever expanding collections are works in progress.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Artanis wrote:
Paints are so prohibitively expensive though

$6USD for a regular GW pot over here means every time I think about buying paint I look at more models I could be buying instead.

I'll get around to painting eventually, it's just a huge investment in time and patience. Plus it takes ages to get half decent.


Spend a saturday or two at your store's painting table. It's what I did, haven't bought a single thing on painting except for a fine detail brush.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/29 14:00:18

Look he has at least purchased one brush, and mooched paints brushes primer etc while at a retail business. how dare we not fall into line with his way of thinking.

I see posts like this one and hope that it is someone being a TROLL. Because it is actually better than the other option of this guy being as socially inept as the tone of his posts would indicate.

Really? I don't think of it as mooching at all.

I invite anyone to come into my store and take advantage of our paints and modeling supplies every week. Veteran or beginner, I don't care. Use the paints, help yourself to the glue, ask if you need files, pinning drill or clippers and we'll supply them. Lots of other stores do the same. Hardly mooching when it's a behavior that's encouraged by the retailer. If the store doesn't care, why should you?

I had a really bad first experience with painting.

When I bought my first miniatures, I felt ready. I had chosen a colorscheme (Red armor, gold highlights/shoulder plates, silver rods and skeletal column, spent hours looking at online blogs, and was hoping to do my models justice. I bought oil-based paints because they were the ones at the store. Unfortunately, I didn't know one little thing.

Oil-based paints don't get thinned very well by water.

My few miniatures looked like chunky blocks (Because I didn't want to "thin" the paint nearly at all, I was paranoid about how the paint wouldn't adhere like my first disasters). At first, I thought the paints were fine, painting was supposed to be this hard, etc. When I took out my miniatures at the LGS to try out a practice game (And ask for hints on fixing the problems), the person there told me that my painting sucked. I told him that I was trying to get better, at which point he pretty much said, "Yeah, well, go do that before playing me." I just said "okay" and left the shop.

I started painting my army again a year later, since at first I didn't feel like painting again after hearing official confirmation that I was just doing it wrong. At least now I know what to look out for on the paints I buy.

I understand what it's to be against an unpainted or badly painted army, because I had to sit there at my desk staring at them and trying to make them look acceptable. It looks ugly from both sides. I just wanted to say that sometimes, a person's pride in their force doesn't translate well to the tabletop.

That type of perseverance is what makes GD winners, that or he'll become someone great / important.

Respect + 1 ( Artanis )

My favorite is plunking down a warhammer FANTASY army on a table and watching all the fantasy players gasp in horror.

I don't like to put a mini on the table that isnt painted to the best of my frankly atrocious ability, its the best i can do though and thats good enough for me. But its only my own army i care about in the painting side of things, if someone doesnt want to paint their army, meh whatever, long as its wysiwyg then i'm just happy to have a fun game.

Everyone forks out a tonne of money for their minis, and just because they dont paint them as far as i can tell shouldnt stop them from enjoying the part of the hobby they want to participate in, or enjoy.

augustus5 wrote:

Ssgt Carl wrote:

augustus5 wrote: The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

Heh, I chuckled when I read 'baboon'

So, are you saying a hobby cannot be defined or perhaps that anyone can define any hobby any way they want?

I think that the hobby is defined by the player. Every person has their own idea of what the hobby is too them. If somebody chooses to play with a few friends, ultimately they must decide upon some guidelines for house rules, or ways to determine rules questions, whether or not they would use the INAT FAQ, and whether they have paint/comp guidelines. The bigger the group or club becomes, the more important it is to establish these types of guidelines. Tournament organizers also need to set guidelines based upon what they want, or what they think will work best for the people who will be coming to the event. So, the hobby must be defined within those parameters. The hobby need not be defined for every player everywhere, and that is what I'm hearing from some of the people here.

Normally, I would not judge somebody for the way they choose to play the game or define their hobby, but there have been a couple people in this thread, that are defining the hobby for everyone, and doing it in a nasty sort of way. We all have found something we enjoy about wargaming, we all don't like the same things about wargaming. What I have done, with the baboon comment, is not to judge somebody based on how they enjoy their hobby, but to rather judge one who sought to judge others based on their hobby preferences.

As Luna pointed out, nicely written indeed.

I think you've hit the nail on the head about where this sort of disagreement comes from and that is the definition. I suppose I do believe there is.. let's see, I'll call it a definitive ideal in miniatures wargaming. That is to a masterful tactician with a beautifully painted army on stunning terrain. I certainly have not lived up to this ideal (and almost certainly never will) but I like to continue to try. But yeah, I guess that is defining it for everyone.
I will make an effort not to speak for anyone else here. If I came off in any of my earlier posts as if I thought anyone was somehow 'lesser' because they didn't paint their figures. At the same time, I don't think it should make me so terrible or arrogant that I wish they would. I wouldn't judge someone because they didn't mow their yard. I understand there may be reasons; they don't have time, mower is broken, health, or maybe they just enjoy watching tv more than mowing so they choose that activity over the latter. Flawed human I am though, I'll probably end up thinking "Come on, you know? Mow your yard man. It's so much nicer for everyone."
I don' think there is anything wrong with doing the hobby they way that pleases you the most but I guess I have never subscribed to the idea (in anything, not just gaming) that one has reached the ideal, simpy because they are happy the way they are. I see how this can be taken as a slight because it seems like I am saying "you have failed at gaming because you have chosen not to do everything you could." This isn't what I mean. By all means, do the hobby the way you have fun and don't let anyone make you feel bad for not doing it the same way you do but simply because you have fun doing it one way is doesn't mean there isn't a more ideal way. Doing something the ideal way is rarely the funnest, hence the reason so few of us are ideal. I understand that if I say I think you should paint your figs I might be percieved as arrogant or an elitest. Perhaps you can see that trying to define gaming however you like best seems to me like you're refusing to admit you're not perfect. Niether of those assumptions is correct but I guess, being human, we don't know everything (and this is meant to be more with humor and not seriousness) so come on, you know? Mow your yard.


*Edit* I just realized I wasted like 10 minutes of painting time writing this. Dangit!

Put simply some people are hardcore into the painting aspect and refuse/don't have the time to paint, others love the game but refuse/don't have the time to paint. So for me(and my most epic opinion)is that its that persons overpriced plastic cocaine, let them do with it as they please, if they want to put the minis on upside down and melt a limb, go ahead, if they want to have 10000 points of awesomely painted Imperial Guard and never put them on the game table, well it was their choice and they are enjoying Warhammer as they see fit, so please respect others choices in the game and move on with your day.

TL;DR:They spent the money on their mini's not you, so quit whining about it and move on with life, no use bursting a vessel over it.

Ssgt Carl wrote:This isn't what I mean. By all means, do the hobby the way you have fun and don't let anyone make you feel bad for not doing it the same way you do but simply because you have fun doing it one way is doesn't mean there isn't a more ideal way. Doing something the ideal way is rarely the funnest, hence the reason so few of us are ideal. I understand that if I say I think you should paint your figs I might be percieved as arrogant or an elitest. Perhaps you can see that trying to define gaming however you like best seems to me like you're refusing to admit you're not perfect. Niether of those assumptions is correct but I guess, being human, we don't know everything (and this is meant to be more with humor and not seriousness) so come on, you know? Mow your yard.


*Edit* I just realized I wasted like 10 minutes of painting time writing this. Dangit!

The simple truth is unpainted models are harder to distinguish than painted models and are a game-impacting burden on opponents. No player has the right to force a burden on an opponent or decide what level of burden is acceptable to force upon opponents. I paint my models and follow 100% WYSIWYG so I never burden my opponents. Opponents to have the right to accept the burden in order to play the game or refuse the game. If I was the one forcing a burden on opponents due to my own actions, especially one that impacts gameplay I would respect my opponent first by asking if I can use my unpainted models or if he would rather play someone else. It doesn't matter if I think playing unpainted models or proxies is an acceptable burden or not. My opponent should have every right to decline a game where gameplay is degraded in some way with no fear of being called names like elitist or baboon.

Unpainted models are hard to distinguish the weapons from across the table and hard to distinguish squads in lots of situations. It directly impacts gameplay. unWYSIWYG models and proxies and token stand-ins impact the game way worse. If I want a good gaming experience i will play the person whose army least harms the game, which means a fully painted and distinguished force first... an unpainted army second, An un WYSIWYG army 3rd and a token/proxy army 4th. or, I may decide to not play an army if I simply feel the lack of appearance will impact the game to an unreasonable level. Don't tell me justy because you are willing to do the mental acrobatics needed to keep track of unpainted and undistinguished units that I should be expected to.

Personally, I am glad there are plenty of events which require fully painted and WYSIWYG models for participation so I can play fair and balanced games without one person gaining an advantage by forcing a burden on their opponent. This notion of 'I play the game and the game is MY hobby' is nonsense because unpainted models degrade the game and impact the gameplay and make it unfair for your opponent.

Wardragoon wrote:Put simply some people are hardcore into the painting aspect and refuse/don't have the time to paint, others love the game but refuse/don't have the time to paint. So for me(and my most epic opinion)is that its that persons overpriced plastic cocaine, let them do with it as they please, if they want to put the minis on upside down and melt a limb, go ahead, if they want to have 10000 points of awesomely painted Imperial Guard and never put them on the game table, well it was their choice and they are enjoying Warhammer as they see fit, so please respect others choices in the game and move on with your day.

TL;DR:They spent the money on their mini's not you, so quit whining about it and move on with life, no use bursting a vessel over it.

I think this kind of misses the point that this is a social hobby. Perhaps how you choose to do things matters because, for most people involved in gaming, it isnt just them.

No one can tell you how to spend your hobby time.

I (somewhat) enjoy painting enough to put paint to a model, and I generally try to paint one squad a week, which has gotten easier with my Shameless Plug-I mean Painting Blog. Don't know what came over me there. >.>

Anyways, I would prefer if both armies were fully painted, but I also prefer going without sleep so I can have more time for fun. Tried going without sleep back in High school, just started sleeping there instead.

Caffiene, my friend. Java is your friend (for a little while at least..)

Can we avoid the name calling and digs at each other please !

I understand people have differing views on what is and isn't cool/the way it should be, but it is still just toy soldiers.

Or, as one of my mates puts it, "Man Dollies!" I love my man dollies, I do.

Personally, I prefer to paint my army to the best of my ability, but that's just because I enjoy fielding a fully painted force, and I love how good they look on the table. However, I'll also field an unpainted/painting in progress model or squad without much qualm, because if it's unpainted it just means I've only recently bought it and haven't had the time to finish painting it yet.

Then again, given that I'm pedantic enough in my painting that I don't fully assemble my models until they're painted, I usually only field unpainted tanks that I can put together without glueing and pull apart again later anyway. ¬_¬

If someone wants to field an unpainted army against me, I'm okay with that too. I prefer seeing fully painted or at least in-progress armies, because damn, they look so much better, but hey, I understand that not everyone has the time or desire to paint their stuff. It's not that much of a big deal to me.

And I'm still inexperienced enough in the hobby that, unpainted or not, I'm still not really able to tell units apart by sight yet, and so will still be asking "What the hell is that unit and what scary crap does it do?" of pretty much anything anyway, hehe.

Only read the first page of this, but one comment 'Its not your hobby, its a hobby' from eldarnoob. Yes thats true, but i don't think your paintball analogy works. Playing a tabletop wargame has different areas, modelling, painting, fluff, playing etc. And there is no obligation to do all of them, some people just paint and would never even think about playing. I think the number of people with un-painted armies is probably greater than the number of people who hate seeing unpainted models, if it really bothers you that much, you have two options, ignore it/stop playing or paint for them. I would love to have a fully painted army, and there is no good reason why I don't, I have the time to paint, its just really really boring. Once i got everything out and read to paint, got a drink and then couldn't be bothered so put it all away, another time i was home alone for 3 days, so had full use of the best table for painting, so i got everything out and planned to get quite a lot done over those 3 days, and ended up finishing a few details on a Rhino, and doing the first 3/4 stages of two other rhinos, because other things (anything) is just more enjoyable than painting.

What you need to consider really, is that you might not like someone having a painted army, but they might not like painting (or have the time, skill etc) and painting models against your own will certainly takes a lot more effort than playing/watching a game against unpainted models.

Painted toy soldiers is a tradition going back over 3,000 years.


Middle Kingdom Egyptian Model Soldiers c.1500 BC

People who don't want to play with painted models are starting a new tradition, that's all.

I don't see how it ever could appeal to people who want to play with painted soldiers.

It's pretty easy to see both sides of the argument. On one hand, I know how to paint and make my models look how I want them to. I got into the hobby because of painting, because I liked the challenge in trying to paint like the guys in 1992 white dwarf mags.

It seems very plausible to me that people buy models because of how they look painted, wanting to reach that goal, falling short, and simply quitting for not wanting to put in the work, laziness, the learning curve, whatever. Painting, while often fun, can often be a chore if you want to get results. Especially banging out squad after squad; it is easy to get tired of painting. So in that respect, I can see why people don't paint their stuff.

Maybe it's a matter of pride for me, but I wouldn't get onstage and sing or play an instrument in front of people without having my performance at a presentable level. I wouldn't write the LSATs unless I'd studied. I won't field a sea of grey units, because if I have the ability to make those units look hot, or at least acceptable, I want to do that so I can be proud of my handiwork when I put them across from my opponent.

I don't have a problem playing against a sea of grey--I don't think my gak doesn't stink enough to cop attitude with people who don't paint their stuff--but at the same time, it's kind of sad and disappointing to see it month after month. After a while, there's not a ton of excuses to not making at least gradual progress on your stuff. if you can spend hours a day poring over army lists and making three different forces in army builder for every 50 pt increment from 750-2500, you can spend ten or fifteen minutes a day putting a basecoat down, or doing some highlighting, or whatever.

You can't make people take pride in their armies, or their bodies, or themselves. But you can set an example. Being a dill weed who will castigate someone for being a lazy fatass or having an unpainted force or no self esteem doesn't do them any favors, and worse still, makes you a sorry and petty human being. A real man sets the example and encourages people to reach their potential, he doesn't meet his own standards and tell people who haven't to f*ck off.

Option 3 - buy nicely painted figures off ebay cheaper than unpainted (although I guess some will consider that "cheating" to....sigh)

Option 4 - get someone else to paint them for you - not cheap (as above).

I don't enjoy using unpainted or just undercoated black figures but I also don't have time, inclination or skill to paint my figures (took me 15-20 years of wasted time, effort and plenty of ruined expensive models to realise that mind you).

I will take time to compliment people of cool painted minis and as I mentioned ealrier it might also be helpful for some poeple to explain to those starting out or in the early days what gets them stoked about painting, maybe give them tips and encourage them........

augustus5 wrote:
The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

You've got to chill out. If anyone's coming off as elitist and nasty in this thread, its you. I dont see why you feel the need to come after people who say they wont play against unpainted armies, who cares? There's nothing more strange about that than those who are saying they wont paint because of resale values.

Theres no reason to call anyone a baboon. You say the hobby is defined by the individual player, yet berate someone for their own definition, the very thing you're arguing against. Take a step back.

Las wrote:

augustus5 wrote:
The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

You've got to chill out. If anyone's coming off as elitist and nasty in this thread, its you. I dont see why you feel the need to come after people who say they wont play against unpainted armies, who cares? There's nothing more strange about that than those who are saying they wont paint because of resale values.

Theres no reason to call anyone a baboon. You say the hobby is defined by the individual player, yet berate someone for their own definition, the very thing you're arguing against. Take a step back.

I agree with augustus5. I don't care if you refuse to play someone for having unpainted models, but you shouldn't berate people who don't enjoy the same aspects of the hobby as you.

Selected excerpts from the offending post:

"people who aren't worth playing"

"just a flacid excuse for being undisciplined"

"truly pathetic."

"in stores and in public, it's a terrible showing"

"the world is peopled with peasants"

Las wrote:

augustus5 wrote:
The nerve of this baboon. Not only do you come off sounding like an elitist jerk, you manage to try to define what the hobby is supposed to be for everyone else. I'm glad you avoid playing people with unpainted armies, because I'm sure playing a game with you would be no fun at all.

You've got to chill out. If anyone's coming off as elitist and nasty in this thread, its you. I dont see why you feel the need to come after people who say they wont play against unpainted armies, who cares? There's nothing more strange about that than those who are saying they wont paint because of resale values.

Theres no reason to call anyone a baboon. You say the hobby is defined by the individual player, yet berate someone for their own definition, the very thing you're arguing against. Take a step back.

Pretty much agree. I find it amusing that champions of choice (like the choice to take a hobby that DOES include painting and just ignore that part) will berate someone for choosing to only play against people who have the same dedication to the hobby. Not "your" hobby or "my" hobby but "THE" hobby, which unequivocably involves painting regardless of your own personal preferences and/or abilities. Feel free to ignore that part of the hobby as I can't force you to put paint on your models but don't tell me that it isn't a traditional, legitimate, and beneficial part of the experience. Just be man enough to admit you're simply ignoring that part of it instead of trying to redefine it for everyone according to your personal whims. I play against people who don't paint all the time in friendly games and don't really care but I'll only attend tournies that have a painting requirement. If I'm paying to play, I want eye candy on the table. The OP put it best (and I'll expand on it)... you can run around the woods in camo with an empty gun in a box and call your sport "paintball" because you're just not into the "shooting" thing and firing your gun makes it "used" so its resale value decreases... but don't be surprised if people prefer not to play with/against you or simply tell you you're doing it wrong.