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Monster Rain wrote:Oh, I didn't think there was any actual rancor going on there Femnaw.

Honestly, the post you responded to originally was in no way intended to be taken seriously.

Sorry, I anticipated snowballing (no pun intended, given thread topic) and then Pyriel validated my expectations by implying that I'm a Nazi.

Castiel wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Castiel wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Castiel wrote:I don't see why porn stars should be ashamed. Are you ashamed that you have sex?

Depends how good i was...

I saw these responses coming!

I could make another joke here but frankly it's too easy...

So is she.

Isn't the point that she isn't easy? She wanted to be paid...
I mean if you're a slag and make a load of home movies that's fine but selling them in a regulated industry environment and being paid for it just makes it bad?

Phototoxin wrote:i) Who's sasha grey/gray and ii) what's wrong with reading books?

She's an ex-porn star.
Nothing... people have some sort of moral crisis when they see an ex-pornstar helping promote reading...

I think I understand what's going on here with the people who are upset. Maybe their real problem is actually with reading. I think the journalist may have his facts a bit out of order.

i) Who's sasha grey/gray and ii) what's wrong with reading books?

ED: NVM read the article and now I'm curious!

Oh boy. Someone´s gonna have a lat of catching up to do tonight

Manchu wrote:Honestly, the post you responded to originally was in no way intended to be taken seriously.

Sorry, I anticipated snowballing (no pun intended, given thread topic)

I would describe Sasha Grey's porn work as ambitious. It was very infrequently my sort of thing, but I was always impressed by it.

Sorry, I anticipated snowballing (no pun intended, given thread topic) and then Pyriel validated my expectations by implying that I'm a Nazi.

Not at all, I would never imply that you are a nazi, I simply implied you like to gas jews in your basement.

Better her than a violent criminal.



edit: wait, Manchu isn't a nazi? Next you're going to tell me that biccat isn't a liberal!

Woe is me, for my world has shattered!

Pyriel- wrote:

i) Who's sasha grey/gray and ii) what's wrong with reading books? ED: NVM read the article and now I'm curious!

Oh boy. Someone´s gonna have a lat of catching up to do tonight

Should be fun right? Although, along with others in this thread, I can't say I'm a fan of Sasha Grey. She's pretty and all but her scenes are way brutal.

Manchu wrote:I think I understand what's going on here with the people who are upset. Maybe their real problem is actually with reading. I think the journalist may have his facts a bit out of order.

That would certainly flip the argument...

@purplefood: I just figure that if people read more books they might not be so upset about a porn star promoting reading. So clearly, the real enemy here is reading.

Manchu wrote:@purplefood: I just figure that if people read more books they might not be so upset about a porn star promoting reading. So clearly, the real enemy here is reading.

I wouldn't have minded if a porn star came to my school and started reading to us...

edit: wait, Manchu isn't a nazi? Next you're going to tell me that biccat isn't a liberal!

Of course hes not a nazi, I was just pulling his chain for him joking at me for calling him a nazi.
I think the lack of smileys on both parts might have confused some people.

Mel: Since this is the funniest thread on dakka in a long time couldnt you do like a mad feminazi (pun intended) plunge into it and stir gak up even more?

Oh boy, I´m getting out of popcorn already.

@purplefood: Just don't ask me to tell you what she read to me.

Pyriel- wrote:

edit: wait, Manchu isn't a nazi? Next you're going to tell me that biccat isn't a liberal!

Of course hes not a nazi, I was just pulling his chain for him joking at me for calling him a nazi.
I think the lack of smileys on both parts might have confused some people.

I was hoping I had piled enough sarcasm on that post to set off anyone's sarcasm detector...

Threads like this are great! starting off with a 'normal' topic and then devolving into brocken bit wars between people and somehow spiralling into Nazi germany and gassing people in your basement! all because a lovely young lady who happens to enjoy copious amounts of rough sex decided to read to kids in a school! wow! I couldn't script this stuff! but it sure is entertaining to see what everyone thinks about the person! I wonder how many moral radar's are just set to internet mode right now? :-)

please keep it up it's quite interesting! I must write a paper on this one day..... no, seriously! :-)

I was hoping I had piled enough sarcasm on that post to set off anyone's sarcasm detector...

To bad you didnt see my sarcasm making fun of your sarcasm

Does this mean there wont be any feminazi input in here by you? Not even for fun?

Threads like this are great! starting off with a 'normal' topic and then devolving into brocken bit wars between people and somehow spiralling into Nazi germany and gassing people in your basement! all because a lovely young lady who happens to enjoy copious amounts of rough sex decided to read to kids in a school! wow! I couldn't script this stuff! but it sure is entertaining to see what everyone thinks about the person! I wonder how many moral radar's are just set to internet mode right now? :-)

please keep it up it's quite interesting! I must write a paper on this one day..... no, seriously! :-)

Things, it seems, have unfortunately abated some. I´ll try to kickstart them once just for lulz, if it doesnt do the trick then bummer, we are out of thread or everybody just went to have dinner.

Pyriel- wrote: trick then bummer

I ardly know er

So, as a follow-up.

If I pay someone to have sex with me, film it, and then sell the tape is THAT legal, or is it prostitution?

If so, why?

I'm really trying to understand things.

Easy E wrote:So, as a follow-up.

If I pay someone to have sex with me, film it, and then sell the tape is THAT legal, or is it prostitution?

If so, why?

I'm really trying to understand things.

The tape you are making is speech, so the production of said tape is protected.

It's dumb, but it's constitutionally consistent. Since prostitution is commerce and not distributed as speech, it's not protected the same way. Sex itself is protected, but sex for MONEY is not. The money part is what allows it to be regulated by a state.

The reason this happened is because BOTH were illegal until the middle of the 20th century and people fought to get porn legalized using a successful first amendment argument. Prostitution hasn't been in many cases yet, so no ground has been gained. It's POSSIBLE that one could craft an argument that it's free assembly or something, but the money changing hands makes it commerce so it would be a hard case.

The best play to get both legalized would just be to lobby the states to change the law. I would bet money that it's legal everywhere within the next 100 or so years.

successful topic is successful...

However... in other news... I'm surprised Rented Tritium and I agree on a topic... ah well i guess there is one thing everyone can agree on... PORN

frgsinwntr wrote:successful topic is successful...

However... in other news... I'm surprised Rented Tritium and I agree on a topic... ah well i guess there is one thing everyone can agree on... PORN

I think you'll find that I'm actually a bleeding heart liberal when it isn't an argument about police authority.

You can respect a person who's involved in porn, and respect their right to their own choices, while still being disappointed in that choice and feeling sad for them.

For most of us, sex is a private matter we share with the person or people we love and are close to. Sometimes it's something we do more casually, for pleasure and relief of stress, and/or while looking for love and companionship. When you take this personal thing and make it a job, that at least looks like something of a sacrifice. The person has commodified their own intimacy and perhaps adulturated their exaltation and the physical expression of passion they are able to share with the person or people they care about. This can have negative consequences for their private sex life.

Now, the point which I believe Tritium is on, is that we need to be careful not to assume that all sex workers are damaged or in need of pity. Many of these folks make these choices of their own free will, and are still able to maintain functional and joyful personal relationships.

On the other hand, what he and his friends probably need to admit is that there are a lot of damaged folks in these industries too. People whose own personal lives and sexual health are negatively impacted by commodifying their bodies and sexual expression. And this is why a lot of us tend to react negatively- because we would not personally want to do that, and because we have known people who seemed to harm themselves by misuse of their own sexuality. It is an essentially empathic gesture to pity someone in porn. We should, however, still respect them as a human being and allow for the possibility that they have made the choices they wanted to and have kept their personal life and feelings intact and functional. We haven't walked a mile in their shoes, and can't really judge.

Mannahnin wrote:When you take this personal thing and make it a job, that at least looks like something of a sacrifice.

Not buying it.

I have a friend who loves driving cars for a lot of reasons. I don't pity him or feel sad for him when he becomes a professional racecar driver.

That argument utterly falls apart when you stop assuming that sex is magical symbolism.

On the other hand, what he and his friends probably need to admit is that there are a lot of damaged folks in these industries too

And I never said otherwise.

However there are damaged folks in LITERALLY EVERY INDUSTRY, so it's irrelevant.

There are people in every industry for the right reasons, there are people in every industry for the wrong reasons. There is nothing special about porn as an industry.

Rented Tritium wrote:
That argument utterly falls apart when you stop assuming that sex is magical symbolism.

Not really. You're substituting logical necessity for an argument from reason. Sex does not necessarily have to possess a necessary property of "magical symbolism" to be held as a magical symbol by large chunks of the population, who will thus find something unseemly about the pornographic industry given that it strips this symbolism away. Noting this unseemly reputation, and subsequently feeling sorry for people who have either been forced into porn by circumstance, or freely chosen it as a career doesn't necessarily relate to pornography itself, but its place in the society in which it is being produced.

Rented Tritium wrote:
However there are damaged folks in LITERALLY EVERY INDUSTRY, so it's irrelevant.

Well, no not really. If the pornographic industry contains a higher percentage of damaged individuals, especially individuals damaged by their participation in pornography, then it absolutely is relevant. Hell, the pornographic industry itself recognized, and worked to address it, following all the incredibly shady goings-on from the early days of the medium when there was even less of a distinction between a porn star and a prostitute/gigolo.

Rented Tritium wrote:
There is nothing special about porn as an industry.

That's nonsense. Very few other industries tap into, and work to leverage, a human desire so basic as sexuality. Advertising may use sex to sell, but pornography is the only legitimate industry that literally sells sex. Then figure in that pornography had close ties to the mob only 3-4 decades ago (as in, it was essentially an arm of organized crime), and you have a nice little niche for yourself in terms of industry character.

Lets get down to brass tacks here. There really isn't a debate going on here that's on topic surely?

I mean, blokes are arguing about porn and such, not about the fact that this bird is actually corrupting kids, because quite fething clearly she isn't. She is teaching them about reading. If the teacher at my nephews school has only EVER talked about math since she took the job, who cares if she happened to like getting ploughed on video beforehand? Its not even a sensible criticism whichever way you slice it. She was in porn, now she isnt. End of discussion surely?

Well, unless she is reading them books about felching whilst wearing a gimp suit, and mid lesson two men dressed as plumbers enter the classroom and jam the contents of their tool bag into her rear aperture.

Then she IS corrupting kids.

And that's very bad.

dogma wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:
That argument utterly falls apart when you stop assuming that sex is magical symbolism.

Not really. You're substituting logical necessity for an argument from reason. Sex does not necessarily have to possess a necessary property of "magical symbolism" to be held as a magical symbol by large chunks of the population, who will thus find something unseemly about the pornographic industry given that it strips this symbolism away. Noting this unseemly reputation, and subsequently feeling sorry for people who have either been forced into porn by circumstance, or freely chosen it as a career doesn't necessarily relate to pornography itself, but its place in the society in which it is being produced.

Feeling shame for people for what they do is something that happens inside YOU, not them. What YOU feel about people is YOUR baggage. They shouldn't have to deal with your baggage.

Rented Tritium wrote:
However there are damaged folks in LITERALLY EVERY INDUSTRY, so it's irrelevant.

Well, no not really. If the pornographic industry contains a higher percentage of damaged individuals, especially individuals damaged by their participation in pornography, then it absolutely is relevant. Hell, the pornographic industry itself recognized, and worked to address it, following all the incredibly shady goings-on from the early days of the medium when there was even less of a distinction between a porn star and a prostitute/gigolo.

And again, feeling shame for an individual person because of the people in their industry or because you know that other people will feel shame is nonsense. Stop applying YOUR baggage and feelings about an industry to other people's lives.

Rented Tritium wrote:
There is nothing special about porn as an industry.

That's nonsense. Very few other industries tap into, and work to leverage, a human desire so basic as sexuality.

Oh my ribs, I am laughing too hard, ow ow ow

Advertising may use sex to sell, but pornography is the only legitimate industry that literally sells sex.

That's a really fuzzy line you've got there. They literally sell images of sex. Some of them are real, some are simulated, some are animated. Even the real penetration isn't unique to porn considering Caligula and numerous french films. What you are arguing here applies to several non-porn industries.

Then figure in that pornography had close ties to the mob only 3-4 decades ago (as in, it was essentially an arm of organized crime), and you have a nice little niche for yourself in terms of industry character.

So did alcohol. If we banned stuffed animals, the mob would have ties to them too. Any time you ban something, the mob fills the gaps. That says more about how dumb we are for banning something than it says about the stuff itself.

And it says a lot about you that you'd bring up 40 year old mob ties to attack a vice.

Thansk for the info on commerce vs. speech.

Also, everyone knows reading to kids is a dumb idea. Then they might...like...form opinions and learn stuff you don't want them to learn.

I'd love it if Sasha Grey read to me...

I was about to make a comment about her reading me a bedtime story but then Google images reminded me that I was thinking Tori Black, not Sasha Grey and Sasha has tastes I'm not sure I'm good to go for.