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AnomanderRake wrote:There's no such thing as an overpowered Codex. Some Codexes are easier to play than others, but no Codex as a whole is inherently overpowered or underpowered. Well, except Tau. They're badly in need of an update.

I guess that depends on your definition of "over/under-powered", however I think it is difficult to say with a straight face that some armies do not have marked advantages over others assuming even commanders, there's a difference between being "harder to play" (e.g. Dark Eldar) and being outdated or underpowered (e.g. Eldar at the current time). Does this mean that the differences are insurmountable? No, but it does mean that, all things being equal, it's not an even playing field, which is what most would consider over/under-powered. It is difficult to accept for example, that Chaos Space Marines are just as capable as say, Space Wolves, which have many very identical units but are in general cheaper and have more wargear/special rules.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Nurgle wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kain wrote:

Joey wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:GK - Oh look, let's pay 10 points more for exactly the same unit, but with Psychic Hoods, Psychic Powers, Storm Bolters (So they can assault and shoot or shoot twice at 24") and Force Weapons.

If you're gonna QQ, at least get it right. They don't get Psychic Hoods and they cost a bit more than 10 points more per unit. Nice try though.

10 points more. If you're going to defend a blatently over-powered codex, at least read what people say.

I'm starting to get the suspicion that Walrus is one of those people who insist that the game is well balanced and that the deficiences of certain armies can be easily overcome with the proper amount of skill.

Yes he is. Ive been seeing his name pop up on alot of these fighting pages.

Reading comprehension will do you good in life, I suggest you try to use some in the future. Doesn't apply if you didn't even bother to read my response though.

Alright, calm down now, let's not go for the throat by attacking ones English skills.

I don't think any army is specifically over powered. I do think some armies desperately need updates: Tau, Eldar, CSM

Since the question was which is the MOST op, i would say Space Wolves just compared to the other SM armies. Underpowered would be tau. So many of their army choices are simply not competitive.
Out of the recently updated armies i would say nids have it pretty bad.

I think one of the undermetioned armies for weak in this thread are chaos marines. It doesn't seem to matter which brand or god they all seem to be hideously weak especailly against my deathwing

I wouldnt say their are OP and UP codex, yes some need updates but a quick FaQ could fix that.

Just look at the history of the game, each new rule set will give some sort of benefit to each army. 5th ed is all about power armour and tanks, this = marines.

4th was a whole different ball game and chaos were the kings, nids before them in 3rd.

I really do think it comes down to the ruleset and luck of the dice in the end game.

GimlisonofGloin wrote:I wouldnt say their are OP and UP codex, yes some need updates but a quick FaQ could fix that.

Just look at the history of the game, each new rule set will give some sort of benefit to each army. 5th ed is all about power armour and tanks, this = marines.

4th was a whole different ball game and chaos were the kings, nids before them in 3rd.

I really do think it comes down to the ruleset and luck of the dice in the end game.

Eldar were pretty up there the entire time, probably at the top at the end of 3E (Craftworld Eldar rules) and the end of 4E (Hooray Skimmerspam!). Nids weren't really a huge deal until the Nidzilla of their 4E book.

Trying to play IG against anything Eldar up until 5E was...not fun

4th was a whole different ball game and chaos were the kings, nids before them in 3rd.

I'm sorry but what? Did you play 4th edition? 4th edition was the "Skimmers are EPIC AWESOME" edition, where Tri-falcon Eldar and Fish of Fury Tau ruled the day and night respectively.

Nids were just taking second place in 4th

Trying to play IG against anything Eldar up until 5E was...not fun

IG was horrible for a long time, I feel for them getting their cheese at last, but it aint pretty still.

The thing about GK is that they can counter nearly everything in the game.

Want to Scout on them since you got first turn. Ain't gonna happen because they put down a couple of cheap markers.

How about Deep Strike? Nope, that's an automatic mishap if you try to deep strike near them.

OK, let's psychic them to death. Oh wait, all psychic tests at -4 because they have a backfield of four psifleman dreads. With a row of Psybolter razorbacks in front of them

As already mentioned, they can outshoot any assaulty army and out assault any shooty army. Hell, most of the time they outshoot my IG, which are supposed to BE a shooty army.

Then you add in their own psychic abilities that allow their vehicles to pretty much ignore shaken/stunned, increase their strength in hth, make all their NFW wounds Instant Death, and so on and so on and so on.

The only thing they have that is close to a weakness is that they have problems dealing with AV 14 vehicles. Well, until they assault them.......................................

dealing with AV 14 vehicles

S7 A2, H4 rending shots.

Melta warriors

2D6 penetration roll with rerolls on the damage chart

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

dealing with AV 14 vehicles

S7 A2, H4 rending shots.

Makes it possible, but it's no melta. Meltagun at 12" has over the chance of destroying LR than stationary Psycannon and over 4 times the chance over moving Psycannon.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Melta warriors

Only on Coteaz lists, but there you will see lot of them. Coteaz lists have no problem whatsover with AV14. When later I'm talking about GK, assume I'm not talking about Coteaz Henchman armies.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:2D6 penetration roll with rerolls on the damage chart

Pray tell me, what GK unit gets re-rolls on damage chart on enemies? (Hint: Greatsword doesn't)
Only thing in Codex that mentions damage chart as far as I can see is Venerable Dreadnought...

But personally I think that GK has enough tools that it won't crumple over AV14. 5-man Non-moving Purifier squad handles LR just as well as tactical combat squad with single melta does. Same goes for paladins (except they can move). If you're using strikes or normal termies, you just need to double the numbers.
GK definitely don't handle AV14 as well as many other armies do, but they have to have some weaknesses.

My guess is that when 6th edition comes, there will be some penalty for multiple shaken/stunned results which means Fortitude will drop in value and Necron Living Metal will get relatively better.
Which they really need, everyone knows that Necrons are tier 3 army at best, as you can see from their current tournament records

Fake-edit: For the sarcasm-impaired among you, Necrons are definitely tier 1 army with multiple undercosted units (Wraiths, Scarabs, Lord on CBC/Scythe just to name few) . I guess reason why they're not cried out for being OP is that they're harder for newbies to play.

Gargantuan wrote:The three most OP armies according to internet "wisdom" appears to be

1: Grey Knights
2: Space Wolves
3: Imperial Guard

I would have to agree with this

grey knights are stupid

Pray tell me, what GK unit gets re-rolls on damage chart on enemies? (Hint: Greatsword doesn't)

Than I was cheated by a GK, ugh.

I'm in a good posistion where i'm the one that knows the rules better than the gk player. in his defence, he was playing them before they turned....interesting.

Luide wrote:[My guess is that when 6th edition comes, there will be some penalty for multiple shaken/stunned results which means Fortitude will drop in value and Necron Living Metal will get relatively better.
Which they really need, everyone knows that Necrons are tier 3 army at best, as you can see from their current tournament records

Fake-edit: For the sarcasm-impaired among you, Necrons are definitely tier 1 army with multiple undercosted units (Wraiths, Scarabs, Lord on CBC/Scythe just to name few) . I guess reason why they're not cried out for being OP is that they're harder for newbies to play.

Necrons OP? Dude, are you having trouble beating Necrons with your army? You're probably just doing something wrong, I see this a lot with people who aren't used to them - they have "tricks", but once you understand the counters to their tactics a GK army shouldn't lose to them. (Might tie.)

Tell me what's giving you problems.