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 Crablezworth wrote:
A stand alone force that lacks an HQ choice...

A force who's detachment doesn't have any HQ slots to fill.

Codex: Harlequins overview.
Space clowns. Not wave serpents.

I bought the Codex this weekend. I like it.
A local independant shop had it to my surprise, i kind of expected it a week later...

The units are not OP, but they are allright.
And the formations make it complete.
And in the current meta one thing is of utmost importance: speed.
And Harlequins really do have speed.

If you field a complete Harlequin army (masque) you can re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 with the whole army.
An army with what effectively is a 4+ save (including vehicles and 3+ solitaire) , that is not a bad thing at all.
Also all models may run and charge in the same turn and the warlord (if a troupe master) may re-roll warlord trait.

There are also smaller formations that give run+fleet for an infantry formation or re-roll jink saves for a jetbike/skimmer formation.

Ik have been waiting for this codex for a long time.
I have unpainted Harlequins from 1st to current edition and both eldar and dark eldar models (lots of (harlequin) jetbikes, transports, infantry) to work on a big Harlequin project.
But there never was a good reason to start this project.

Now there is a good reason.
The Codex is not what i hoped it to be, too few units, still no mimes, no great harlequin (the lord and the opposing player of the solitaire), but it is enough to make something i like.
I plan to build a Harlequin army with Eldar and/or Dark Eldar as allies (not the other way around).
Eldar will be on jetbikes, Dark eldar on raiders or jetbikes.

Are they intended to be an army? I thought they were like assassins, designed as a bolt on detachment for Eldar and Dark Eldar armies? Never considered using them as a stand-alone force tbh.

Yes, they're a standalone army. That's why they have their own codex instead of a codex supplement or a dataslate.

 Crablezworth wrote:
A stand alone force that lacks an HQ choice...

An HQ choice isnt necessary.

f you field a complete Harlequin army (masque) you can re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 with the whole army.

I assume that just Harlequins in the specific formation /detachment whatever and not anything that is in your army ?

Anything being from any Codex - like say Dark Eldar Shadowfields

 Mr Morden wrote:

f you field a complete Harlequin army (masque) you can re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 with the whole army.

I assume that just Harlequins in the specific formation /detachment whatever and not anything that is in your army ?

Anything being from any Codex - like say Dark Eldar Shadowfields

Yeah, you're right, it only applies to members of that specific detachment.

 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, they're a standalone army. That's why they have their own codex instead of a codex supplement or a dataslate.

In the proud tradition of other stand alone codex's like inquisition, legion of the damned and assassins...

*edit oh and militarum tempestus and imperial knights

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, they're a standalone army. That's why they have their own codex instead of a codex supplement or a dataslate.

In the proud tradition of other stand alone codex's like inquisition, legion of the damned and assassins...

I like how you only name the digital ones, but leave out Imperial Knights and Militarum Tempestus.

Wait, did that guy just say he has the codex? You magnificent bastard! I'm not going to be able to get mine for weeks, you say the masque detachment gives rerolls of 1 on saves? I hadn't heard that benefit listed anywhere. How did I miss that? It make me exceptionally happy

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, they're a standalone army. That's why they have their own codex instead of a codex supplement or a dataslate.

In the proud tradition of other stand alone codex's like inquisition, legion of the damned and assassins...

I like how you only name the digital ones, but leave out Imperial Knights and Militarum Tempestus.

Sorry, forgot about those, I'll add those two.

The codex (from what I've read of it mind you) seem like a fairly fun deal along the lines of assasins, inquisition, etc.

However, what's getting my goat lately is the tournament scene basically not supporting these as stand alone products due to their restrictions on detatchments and the like. Limiting formations I think is needed but not giving any allowances to these stand alone forces means that you can almost never field them except as a 1-2 trick pony i.e. forget the inquistion codex in a competitive setting by itself, roll a standard dex and just use 1-2 buffers from the inquisition if you really need them. Gone are the days of a full inquisition force. You just don't have enough stuff to deal with all the things out there. (i.e. lack enough FoC's like fortifications or low box not to mention any fliers or mc's)

Heck, even GK suffer from this as that dex has so few unit selections that you almost always end up taking allies to make it competiive (major tournament competitve, not talking about local fluff games)

Long rant aside, I think the major tournaments need to start making allowances for some of these stand alone dex's to be allowed greater ability to ally with itself at the very least or have expanded FoC slots as what GW is doing vs what the major tournaments are doing is clashing more and more.

 sudojoe wrote:
The codex (from what I've read of it mind you) seem like a fairly fun deal along the lines of assasins, inquisition, etc.

However, what's getting my goat lately is the tournament scene basically not supporting these as stand alone products due to their restrictions on detatchments and the like. Limiting formations I think is needed but not giving any allowances to these stand alone forces means that you can almost never field them except as a 1-2 trick pony i.e. forget the inquistion codex in a competitive setting by itself, roll a standard dex and just use 1-2 buffers from the inquisition if you really need them. Gone are the days of a full inquisition force. You just don't have enough stuff to deal with all the things out there. (i.e. lack enough FoC's like fortifications or low box not to mention any fliers or mc's)

Heck, even GK suffer from this as that dex has so few unit selections that you almost always end up taking allies to make it competiive (major tournament competitve, not talking about local fluff games)

Long rant aside, I think the major tournaments need to start making allowances for some of these stand alone dex's to be allowed greater ability to ally with itself at the very least or have expanded FoC slots as what GW is doing vs what the major tournaments are doing is clashing more and more.

What gets my goat is calling long dataslates codex's. Codex should be synonymous with faction in my opinon for the simple reason that allies exist as an option anyway. My preferences is still always going to be one codex vs another codex (codex = faction) outside of casual/fluff games.

Is the lack of an HQ really that much of a deal breaker for people? Calling Harlequins "not a codex" just doesn't make sense to me. They got 4 new units, warlord traits, unique command benefits and a unique psychic discipline. The level of customization on the basic troupe is such that you can field dozens of different weapons configurations that will allow you to specialize them against different targets. It seems like a codex to me.

By that same logic, Blood Angels and Space Wolves shouldn't be considered codexes either, because they are just basically Marines with a couple unique characters and special units bolted on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sudojoe wrote:
The codex (from what I've read of it mind you) seem like a fairly fun deal along the lines of assasins, inquisition, etc.

However, what's getting my goat lately is the tournament scene basically not supporting these as stand alone products due to their restrictions on detatchments and the like. Limiting formations I think is needed but not giving any allowances to these stand alone forces means that you can almost never field them except as a 1-2 trick pony i.e. forget the inquistion codex in a competitive setting by itself, roll a standard dex and just use 1-2 buffers from the inquisition if you really need them. Gone are the days of a full inquisition force. You just don't have enough stuff to deal with all the things out there. (i.e. lack enough FoC's like fortifications or low box not to mention any fliers or mc's)

Heck, even GK suffer from this as that dex has so few unit selections that you almost always end up taking allies to make it competiive (major tournament competitve, not talking about local fluff games)

Long rant aside, I think the major tournaments need to start making allowances for some of these stand alone dex's to be allowed greater ability to ally with itself at the very least or have expanded FoC slots as what GW is doing vs what the major tournaments are doing is clashing more and more.

Exalted.

and yes, i AM very lucky to have the Codex.

I went to a local shop for an x-wing tournament and to my surprise i saw the Harlequin Codex and all the new models standing (the Troupe, the Skyweavers and the Starweaver/Voidweaver), so i just bought it all :-)

Had a bad dice-day of x-wing, but a good battle due to the Harlequin stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And in regard to it being a complete codex:

Most of the artwork is new (other than in most codexes)

There are several complete masques different painted differently in the coxex (other than in most codexes, where it is mostly one colour for all and a few models painted differently)

The warlord traits are very Harlequin and the units are new and they will do.

The codex is quite complete, but it is rather minimal.

In the background i would have liked more details regarding the different dances they perform.
In the rules i would have liked regular jetbikes and, as i mentioned before, the mimes and the troupe master (great harlequin, the laughing god), especially because the last one is so important in the background.
The complete focus in regard to the most powerfull model is on the solitaire now, but IMO that is not right.

I really wish GW would go back to pushing out rulesets that push options and niche things. Since Chapterhouse, they've been nuking all units without kits which sucks. But then they seem to be going further and nuking options not on the standard sprue. I can't give an Archon a Power Lance because its not on sprue? Wtf? I could understand no axe, maybe. I don't even need it to be cost-effective (Power Lance on an Avenger Exarch? Probably the worst option, but looks badass. Glad I can - and do). But I want the options.

I could see the Troop Master being unlikely to carry an axe, but a Lance would look sweet. Heck, the Skyweaver lance on a Troop Master might look freaking awesome (may do anyways). But its not on the sprue. So its not in the rules. And with GW moving more to clampacks, this could get much, much worse. Just look at the trends and rumors in WHFB.

That said, its still a lot more customizable than my Warmahordes or Infinity.

And they released an Harlie codex. I'm fine if it can never win a battle. It means I can take that unit of Harlies that my Craftworlders/Exodites/Corsairs/someday Dark Citiers keep being seen with, and give them a fitting transport in a bound list!

... Or so we thought. The options for bound, apparently are:
-Minimum 7 in one troupe, too big for their DT
-Minimum 3 units, but each can be in its own DT
-Unbound

So my options remain what they've always been since 7th came out: unbound, or ally DE for a Raider or WWP.

And converting some DE to be Harlies - in -training is a lot less reasonable now that Harlies have their own codex.

(Preferred difference - Troup formation require DJ *or* Shadowseer)

So the TLR is:
I'm very happy that Harlies got a codex! That said, the progression of limiting choices, even while adding units, is distasteful. And the codex was so close to being exactly what I wanted.

7/10 GW imo.

It seems like you missed a few formations that expand on said options, and make the list more flexible.

And I for one like that whole "formations, not units" styling. it reduces minmaxing and enforces that at the very least armies will be slightly varied, unlike the horribly outdated FoC charts. (though the new army-spesific charts are interesting at times)

If 'Expands', you mean gives me the option to take things I didn't want, but no troups, yeah, I missed a bunch.

Of the other 2 that allow a Troup, one requres 3 Troups (two formations have that requirement), and the other requires bikes, but doesn't allow a Shadowseer or Death Jester.

Figured I didn't need to list all 6.

I'm glad you enjoy the formation-style army building. Different strokes for different folks.

"It's a complete army!"
"It can't compete on it's own."

Then it's not a complete army. It's a supplement.

It can compete on its own, this army has more haywire options per capita than anyone besides tau with fire warriors! They have weapons that wound or glance without needing to wound or attempt armor pen, they have invulnerable saves all over the place, their psyckers have a primaries that makes it impossible to shoot them from more than 24" away! Fast open topped transports, dedicated mobile long range firepower, the ability to completely destroy enemy moral( better than the dark eldar even) what is out there they cannot answer? In order for wave serpents to even shoot at them, they need to get within charge range. Boggles the mind.

This may become my next army. I'm absolutely inlove and will gladly run these as their own. Don't mess up and they can easily take out a Grey Knight Army. You need only to stay away from their shots and get the upper hand and they'll easily crumble behind the Quins in combat/DJ shots. And above all that, they look awesome as hell!

I will build a Harlequin army.
I will build a complete army (1 solitaire, 3 death jester, 3 shadowseer, 3 troupe, 2 skyweaver units, 1 voidweaver).

Eldar jetbikes as allies, instead of the rules for Harlequin jetbikes i hoped for. But this will do fine.

I will paint Eldar and Dark Eldar as allies, but will build those so i could take them as primary detachment if i wanted to (and take Harlequins as allies).

the_scotsman wrote:
Unless the rules for the Shadowseer, Death Jester, Masque and Enigmas turn out to be some level of absolutely absurd, that is.

If you bring Harlequins, you need your opponent to have:

-No high toughness Death Star units (wraith guards, spawn, Bikers, Grotesques, whatever) and no Monstrous creatures (wraithknights, Riptides, Dreadknights) because everything's gotta be REALLY scared of S3/4 AP - melee attacks.

-NO Superheavies, because harlies rely on some incredibly piddly anti tank options in terms of volume of fire. A IK would probably take three turns to shoot down with a full 2000pt harlequin army

-No flyers, because anti-air options don't exist. Or flying MCs for that matter. That's okay those aren't common.

-No ignores cover. Because all the vehicles foot infantry and bikes rely pretty heavily on cover saves.

-No invisibility, because it makes your uber high WS pointless. But nobody takes that power anyway.

They just seem like an army of everything that is the absolute worst stuff to take in the game right now. I get that you're supposed to make up their weaknesses with Eldar and DE, but in what situation would I not just want Dire Avengers in a WS or Kabalites in a Raider over harlequins? The only armies I can think of that wouldn't have to specifically try to construct a list for the harlies to stand a chance against are guard and sisters.

Sometimes I wonder, when they come out with the Necron rules and the Harlequin rules back to back, does anyone at GW play test anything? Or even talk to each other?

My son runs Eldar, so I grabbed a few White Dwarfs. And the Harlies look like a perfectly viable force. I think you will want to Batttle Brother in some DE or Craftworlders though. As far as AT, Harlies look to have "Haywire, and plenty of it!" as their best, first answer.

My strongest objection, is they will be a royal Pain to paint!