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 Swastakowey wrote:
Ok he doesn't seem like a bad deal then... Who knows what he might do. Even if once every few games he causes a unit to die its probably just worth having.

At 60 points, if he ever forces a unit off the table, or into another unit he's almost certainly made his points back. Armor of Misery + Mask and DJ = -6 LD for that check as well, so you can very reliably DS a unit in on a raider and make one of your opponents units disappear. You might want several DJs to do it, but as soon as you cause that wound it's game over. The synergy with Armor of Misery and WWP is just phenomenal when you think about it. You're not going to blow up a death star, as any player worth their salt is going to find a way to make them fearless. However, you could pretty easily wipe out a backfield unit.

The fact that those LD debuffs also favor the shadowseer's powers are nice too. That one unit can potentially kill 2 units a turn.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Ok he doesn't seem like a bad deal then... Who knows what he might do. Even if once every few games he causes a unit to die its probably just worth having.

He's not bad for an MSU objective grabber either. Only 60 points, so you can send him out to hide near an objective and snipe fools from halfway across the table. It will probably take more than 60 points of your opponent's army to take him out. He's got a S6 3 shot gun with Precision Shot, so he can threaten weak buff characters in units pretty well too.

He also comes stock with Precision shots, which is great because he can target special weapons and unit Leaders like SGTs. He's got great Synergy with other units as well especially Trueborn and regular warriors.

Just a overall phenomenal unit really.

The Crescendo is also really heavy with the special Characters, I mean it's a full force right there. 3 Death Jesters, 3 Shadowseers, a Solitaire, 3 Units of Harlequins, Skyweavers and Voidweavers. Then just take a normal CAD with that.

The Solitaire in that formation has a 3+ invulnerable reroll, and you can get a 3+ invulnerable again through wargear.

Go with Dark Eldar or Eldar for the Anti-Air , you've got all you need.

I'm wondering if forgeworld will open up any eldar vehicles for the Harlequins, being able to just add night wing interceptors would be amazing! Two shuriken cannons, and 2 Bright lances on a 145 point vector dancing flyer is nothing to shake a stick at!

I'm wondering which warlord table to roll on for the best overall results. The dark table is more trolltastic, but the twilight table has some solid options on it as well. Not much of a fan of the light table, personally.

What's the consensus here?

The Dark Table is amazingly trolltastic.

Warlord tables.

The first three results on all the tables are the same, so regardless of which table you pick there is a 50% chance you get one of the 'standard results' Of the first three results I think the first one is arguably the best, the third does allow for a lot of extra movement. If you have the detachment that lets you assault after running you can move+1, run+1, assault +1 for an extra three inches of movement per turn. Probably not getting all three until turn 2+

I think the light table is the most tactically useful.

4- Steal initiative almost guaranteed, this can be very useful in formats that make FB a big deal [ ITC format ]
5- Give d3 units scout/deep strike/ scout
6- remove units redeploy or put them in reserve

considering the fragile nature of harlequins, all of those are good deployment mojo against many armies.

Twilight, I think 4 is quite good as it gives you lots of control if the game ends or not, lots of matches have been changed in outcome based on a game ending or not ending.
5 is good for your warlord killing things, but nothing else.
6, cannot assault after but gives good mobility- could be useful if warlord is in a shooty unit.

Dark-
4- warlord has to be in base contact for it to work, considering harlequins are pretty killy the stuff still in base contact is probably immunte to morale tests at the end of assault, the fear part is nice.
5-if your warlord is still alive, and your warlord/its unit are near something to shoot it might give you a few extra points. Maybe contest an objective, get a kp, get linebreaker, last chance for slay the warlord or something. requires warlord lives through whole game though...
6-obviously trolltastic but also pretty situational, may not ever happen in a game making it kind of worthless.

Light is my table of choice personally, they have a much bigger effect on your game than any of the other ones in my opinion.

Still trying to figure out the best accompaniment to the Crescendo Formation for Dark Eldar, it's a expensive formation ,but worth it I think.

Just can't quite get the points costs right on it.

Hollismason wrote:
Still trying to figure out the best accompaniment to the Crescendo Formation for Dark Eldar, it's a expensive formation ,but worth it I think.

Just can't quite get the points costs right on it.

Honestly, I can't think of a single way to make it work. At the most bare of bare bones, you're looking at 1300 points for that formation. Realistically ~1450-1500. 350 points is an Archon w/agonoizer+armor of misery, a barebones warriors unit, and a razorwing Allied detachment.

The Voidweaver and Skyweavers combine for about 300 points of bloat that prevents any decent ally options. You could run 2 naked Harlies w/out transports and save ~170 points, but why?

To cover this formations weakness, you really need an AA option. Best I can come up with is going CWE for a Farseer Jetbike and Spirit Stones, Jebike squad, Aegis w/quad, Crimson hunter for ~450. DE version would be Archon w/Shadow field, 2 x Naked Warriors, 2 x Razorwing @~450. That's assuming you can figure out a decent load out for the formation at 1400. I don't think the re-roll 1's is worth it to cripple your allie selection so much.

*Edit* @1295 for the formation DE allies could be Lhamas, 2 x naked warriors, Raider w/sails + night shields 3 Razorwings. I think that's going to be the best you can do, and then you have to cut a LOT from the formation to do it

It's not just the reroll 1s though it also includes a run and charge special ability.

It's difficult point wise even with the Harlequin Masque, because you're required to take the 2 Fast Attack, and 1 HS , 3 Compulsory Troops.

Tough on the wallet and points.


Also, I'm noticing a restriction that models can take 1 item from the Enigmas of the Black Library, here's the question though can more than one Enigma be taken in a army. That will be interesting.

Hollismason wrote:
It's not just the reroll 1s though it also includes a run and charge special ability.

It's difficult point wise even with the Harlequin Masque, because you're required to take the 2 Fast Attack, and 1 HS , 3 Compulsory Troops.

Tough on the wallet and points.


Also, I'm noticing a restriction that models can take 1 item from the Enigmas of the Black Library, here's the question though can more than one Enigma be taken in a army. That will be interesting.

Trick with the Mask is that you get to take 2 starweavers as FA not dedicated transports. Saves 220 points (assuming you were going to take the transports anyway). Also lets you take as many (or few) DJ's and Shadowseers as you want.

Still no codex, so I'm not 100% clear on what benefits the Mask gets outside of re-roll warlord traits. The run -> Charge is nice, but you have to ask yourself if it is worth 220+ points? Especially when you have a pretty good transport to that can just drop you off beside the target and/or WWP wherever you want.

I'm more curious is if you can have more than 1 of the same type of Enigmas of the Library , they've got some weird wording on the may take 1 of the Enigmas.

Waiting on codex, so can't really weigh in on that one. Solitaire def says may take one, but usually the unique or only one per detachment clause in codices are on the specific armory page. Haven't seen that/those pages, so can't say for certain.

Yeah that's what I thought was unusual, almost all other codexes are like " May take from X" and then the list for X states 1 per army.

Apparently, the black library has multiple copies of all its texts, but your harliquin library card only lets you check out 1 item at a time.

-Matt

The Crescendo formation is where it's at. I love the formation + eldar (small CAD). It's done really well in the two games I've played with it. Expensive, but I'm finding that harlequins are more of a solid army of themselves with a cad / allies to shore up any weaknesses (read: anti-air).

I'll probably have an article up on torrent of fire later this week detailing some info / ideas.

 Rypher wrote:
The Crescendo formation is where it's at. I love the formation + eldar (small CAD). It's done really well in the two games I've played with it. Expensive, but I'm finding that harlequins are more of a solid army of themselves with a cad / allies to shore up any weaknesses (read: anti-air).

I'll probably have an article up on torrent of fire later this week detailing some info / ideas.

Make sure you put the link up here.

I think the Harlequin normal special CAD and the Dark Eldar Real Space raider Cad is where it's at. At first I was lke ugh gotta use Crescendo but it's to much of a point sink

Just overall a better fit it seems.

2x Death Jesters
2 x Shadow Seers
1 Solitaire
3 Troupes
1 x9 Troupe
1 x 5 Troupe
1 x 5 Troupe
Starweaver
Starweaver
VoidWeaver

It just leaves so many points left over.. it sucks that you can't charge on the 2nd turn etc.. What's the Detachments special rules, just reroll warlord.

Hollismason wrote:
I think the Harlequin normal special CAD and the Dark Eldar Real Space raider Cad is where it's at. At first I was lke ugh gotta use Crescendo but it's to much of a point sink

Just overall a better fit it seems.

2x Death Jesters
2 x Shadow Seers
1 Solitaire
3 Troupes
1 x9 Troupe
1 x 5 Troupe
1 x 5 Troupe
Starweaver
Starweaver
VoidWeaver

It just leaves so many points left over.. it sucks that you can't charge on the 2nd turn etc.. What's the Detachments special rules, just reroll warlord.

So asking for clarification over on warseer, but it looks like "Pressing Crescendo" is on the detachment, not the formation.

Discussion from Warseer:

Q: [request for info on] FOC special rules for the Harlequins ... and that thing of the webway walker (d3 units get one: scout/infitrate/DS) is it a warlord trait or a universal rule for them

A: Emissary of Cegorach (reroll Harlequins traits) & run/charge from turn 2.

It's the 5th trait of the Light table

That interpretation was my initial understanding, and part of my confusion about your insistence to run the full formation instead of the detachment. So you might get your cake and eat it too...

If it's the detachments special rules, then yeah gonna be taking that instead.

I have my codex - ask anything you might want to know!

How big is it?

Anything in there the rumours didn't cover?

Nothing missed that I have seen thus far from the rumours - apart from the psychic disciple, relics and the warlord traits, its all been in WD.

Its a full codex in size and the colour sections and artwork are fantastic - amazing in some cases.

Lots of different colour schemes - some seemingly aimed at those who cant or don't want to do the checks/diamonds.

I got a LTD edition myself (I am a harlequin fan from the 80's) and the painting guide is one of the few I have seen which I feel is worth it. The decks of cards are also very nice as are the objectives.

Having read this thread through, I'm absolutely sure that an IC from another codex can't join a unit from the dex and benefit from the rising crescendo rule.

There is literally no way this is the case.

And without meaning to sound harsh to who said it (Hollinmason?) as you don't understand the rules for detachments I think you will be found incorrect on this.

It's only units that are part of the formation that benefit from the rule. IC's are separate units, even when joined to a unit.

Jk

 Massaen wrote:
I have my codex - ask anything you might want to know!

Can you have more than 1 of the same type of Enigma in the army?

Nope - it specifically says no more than one of each one per army

That makes sense. What's the regular special detachments special rule.

Just reroll warlord trait and run+charge

Good enough for me!!

My current idea for my lists

Shadowseer w/ Mask of Secrets , Level 2
Solitaire w/ Haywire
Death Jester x 2

Troupes
10 Harlequins w/ 2 Carress, 2 Kisses, 2 Embrace
10 Harlequins w/ 2 Carress, 2 Kisses , 2 Embraces
8 Harlequins w/ 2 Carress, 2 Kisses, 2 Embrace

Fast Attack
1 Star Weaver
1 Star Weaver

H. Support
Void Weaver :(

Dark Eldar Real Space Detachment

Succubus w/ Armour of Misery , Archite Glaive
Troops
5 x Warriors w/ Blaster
5 x Warrior w/ Blaster

F. Attack
3 Raiders w/ Dark Lance , Nightshields
Razorwing
Razorwing


This is why I think Dark Eldar and Harlequins are the perfect match. I can use the Starweavers for the Kabalite Warriors w/ a Death Jester , then purchase Raiders for the Harlequins in full squads. You don't even have to get anything fancy.

Massaen wrote:Just reroll warlord trait and run+charge

Amazaballs. Have an exalt. With that, I officially can't see the reason in ever running the Cegorach's Revenge formation ever, for any reason.

Hollismason wrote:Good enough for me!!

My current idea for my lists

Shadowseer w/ Mask of Secrets , Level 2
Solitaire w/ Haywire
Death Jester x 2

Troupes
10 Harlequins w/ 2 Carress, 2 Kisses, 2 Embrace
10 Harlequins w/ 2 Carress, 2 Kisses , 2 Embraces
8 Harlequins w/ 2 Carress, 2 Kisses, 2 Embrace

Fast Attack
1 Star Weaver
1 Star Weaver

H. Support
Void Weaver :(

Dark Eldar Real Space Detachment

Succubus w/ Armour of Misery , Archite Glaive
Troops
5 x Warriors w/ Blaster
5 x Warrior w/ Blaster

F. Attack
3 Raiders w/ Dark Lance , Nightshields
Razorwing
Razorwing


This is why I think Dark Eldar and Harlequins are the perfect match. I can use the Starweavers for the Kabalite Warriors w/ a Death Jester , then purchase Raiders for the Harlequins in full squads. You don't even have to get anything fancy.

I'd go slightly differently, but very close to same.



Stick the warriors in a bunker w/ comms relay, make sure scourges and Razorwings come on when you need em as well as have the option to take second turn and null deploy. I like the archon instead of the succubus only because of Shadow field. When you assault that nasty beatstick squad, he can tank a challenge and allow your squad to kill the rest in the first round. Second round, spill over AP2 wounds take care of Mr. beatstick.