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Sucks dude, i hope you do well with it. Gotta say I love the NHS.

yeah, i don't see myself getting rich off of private commissions and freelance studio work...
that is why i live in the Third World...
i live two blocks from the beach, surf in the morning, hangout with a girl in the afternoon, and paint all night...
it's a good life...
there is no way i could afford to live in Redondo Beach (where i am from) on what people and companies pay for commissions, and my rates are on par with Winterdyne's...

like him, i am also booked about six months in advance, so the clients are out there, but pretty much everyone wants a lower price than the initial quote...
it is sad that people don't see the hard work that goes into developing the skills to do high-end mini painting...
thousands of hours of thought, research, and pushing beyond the comfort zone are where the results come from, not some magic bean...
when people want to hire a Golden Demon winner for competition quality work, and expect to pay rates at the lower end of the spectrum, it does get exasperating, but it is a normal part of the business...

cheers
jah

Commission painting is frustrating. Often for both sides.

I've only experienced it from the other side, but the underlying problem just seems to be people only taking themselves into account in a given situation. Which just isn't something that is ever going to work in a professional context. The client isn't buying some mass produced item off the shelf from a Walmart, and the painter isn't working retail where they can be a flake and have a 'whatever man' attitude.

I saw a painter who did good work and said they did commissions. I asked them how soon they could start, how long they think it would take, how much they would charge to paint a model like the models they had taken pictures of. I tell them what the general range of my budget is so they understand what kind of money is on the table.

They quote 25-30 euro a model. I say fine. They indicate that there will be a price break if I want numerous models painted. Fine by me, steady work can be worth more and them offering a bit of a break means they want the money.

They ask what color scheme, I say I want them to paint them exactly like they painted the models in the pictures.

My only real nit-picky demand was that I get a test figure painted first, and project is approved based on that, then project will be done in batches with payment being broken down per batch. The extra shipping is obviously on my head. This way the size of the bag either side might be left holding is much smaller. They say they have no problem with it.

I get the test figure. Color scheme is not the same. They post a picture of the mini on a forum, and people post that the color isn't the same as their other models. They say the client requested it. Which I did not. I explicitly requested that it be the same. Paint job was good though, so I kept my mouth shut. The only thing I complained about was that the model wasn't glued into the base in a perpendicular manner (i.e. they glued it in and then didn't prop it up so it is looking at the ground), and the complaint was just asking them to make sure they took care to make sure the models were glued in perpendicular to the ground on future models so people could more easily see their good paint jobs. I also indicated the sword on the model was bent in transit, but I bent it back without issue. Not a complaint, just a data point for them related to how their packaging worked out.

I submit the batch details to the painter, trying to group like minis with like to make their job easier, asking if they agreed or wanted to change.

They then send me an email saying that they usually make 30 to 35 euro a model, so will paint them at 30 per model as a price break. Which is NOT what they said at the start. While I did not ask for a price break... they are now playing reindeer games in relation to what they've said previously. Oh, and it turns out that faces also cost 3 euro extra. If they had asked for 40+ euro a model at the start, they would have gotten 40+ euro a model. Commission canceled: I don't trust you. I am not about to find out what sort of horror story of reindeer games I'm in for once this commission gets partially finished.

That's why I and most other places will maintain an email chain for the job, so both sides have records, and honour whatever firm quote is given for the job. If the job is broken into multiple quoted then I can do what I like with pricing between those quotes. Sounds like you did all the right things as a client. For my part I'm sometimes asked to match older work, it's easier if I have the older model in hand otherwise, consistency can only really be guaranteed within a batch- variances of mixes, lighting, application, heck, even mood can impact the result slightly but occasionally perceptibly.

Always best to pull out of the deal in those cases sounds like one of the cowboy types who start work then start adding on prices and messing you around then they deliver a bodge job. For the business side as a client i want to get all that out the way before any work even starts so i understand exactly what it will cost me and any deposit i need to pay up front and that shouldn't change unless the client starts requesting more. Though in that case it feels like trouble when work begins and the client starts wanting major changes to their original idea like they requested a character model painted and then they start asking for an uber custom base job with all these extra bells and whistles like at first it was the regular base with some gravel on it and then they come back with "Actually i want him standing on the ledge of a mountain surrounded by severed heads and skulls with eagles flying around him!".

Think personally I'd avoid asking for somebody to match their own work mostly because that photos tend to look different to models so it's not actually going to look the same when i see it in person and because for me i feel like I'd rather have something created from my own vision i can understand why people would want something that looks like some of your own work those example photos are awesome but i see it more as examples of techniques you can do.

everyone wants that top notch paint job or any art really then you hit them with a realistic number for your work and people get bent on the price i am an artist myself not just mini painting and every time i quote someone for any of my work i get the same thing people think because its a "fun" job or the fact it comes easier too you or your a buddy that you don't deserve a reasonable amount for your work .. quality dose come with a price ..anyone who has painted a full army knows what kinda of work is involved in it now you want a higher quality paint job triple that time frame and that's where the money is i guess my point is if you want quality art pay for it because the alternative too that is probably not going to be what you wanted

So.. this all sums up to this?

 flabluker wrote:
everyone wants that top notch paint job or any art really then you hit them with a realistic number for your work and people get bent on the price i am an artist myself not just mini painting and every time i quote someone for any of my work i get the same thing people think because its a "fun" job or the fact it comes easier too you or your a buddy that you don't deserve a reasonable amount for your work .. quality dose come with a price ..anyone who has painted a full army knows what kinda of work is involved in it now you want a higher quality paint job triple that time frame and that's where the money is i guess my point is if you want quality art pay for it because the alternative too that is probably not going to be what you wanted

Well most artists do get paid less largely because they are doing it because of a personal interest and they find it fun.

winterdyne is a world class painter and doing freelance commissions gets paid less than your average unskilled to semi-skilled factory worker.

I tend to think it's not the fact that people want a lot for nothing, I think it's more that they don't realise they are asking for a lot and thus aren't expecting the high price. They either don't realise the effort that goes in to putting together a whole army (or even a single unit) and even on the off chance they do realise how long it would take themselves to do it, they probably think a pro could do it significantly faster when really it's only moderately faster (barring the few freaks who churn out entire good looking units in a few hours ).

I think as long as you present yourself as "well it's going to take me about this long and thus it will cost about that much". Anyone who doesn't understand that is just a moron or someone who hasn't worked a day in their life. If someone asks me how much something will cost, I'll only lead with the dollar amount if I'm trying to scare them away from hiring me

 Thairne wrote:
So.. this all sums up to this?

Have an exalt sir