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How do you identify?
Male / Transitioning to male
Female / Transitioning to female

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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I am a man transitioning to double-man.

Club can't even handle me right now.

Also I have two boners when I think about bolters.


So, let me get this straight: You don't think anyone could reasonably by offended by this joke? Because if so, that shows a shocking lack of empathy for other people.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 JNAProductions wrote:

So, let me get this straight: You don't think anyone could reasonably by offended by this joke? Because if so, that shows a shocking lack of empathy for other people.


On the internet, someone being offended about the word "boner"? I'm certain someone can.

It's the internet. "Being offended" is the longest-running ARG.

I have empathy. But I also don't think "boner" has harmed this person at all, and I believe you're being over-dramatic over it.

Which is kind of weird.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

See, you're focused on the boner.

I'll let her speak for herself, but it really seems to me the issue is that you're making light of transitioning, using it purely as fodder for joke material. It'd be similar to making a joke about lynching with a black person.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 JNAProductions wrote:

I'll let her speak for herself, but it really seems to me the issue is that you're making light of transitioning, using it purely as fodder for joke material. It'd be similar to making a joke about lynching with a black person.


I've made no references to this person's transition process.

I don't know how many gold medals you've got in "mental gymnastics", but you're Olympics material making that reference.

Are you quite done? Or would you like to reference the Holocaust?

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







We are quite done. Seriously that's enough please, you have both said your piece so let that be an end to it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 01:29:10


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Made in us
Squishy Squig






Male, but I sometimes become one with paint fumes and identify as an A-10 at those times...

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Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Wargaming simply does not have the same appeal to women and girls that it does to men and boys.

The same reason romantic comedies have fewer men and boys in the theaters. It's just a thing. No one's "pushing them away", in fact it's been quite the opposite and the women that do play games have been playing prior to any of these demands for change.

There's no magical formula here. And the obnoxious losers and creepy weirdos at the table aren't going to get chicks to play with them, no matter what gets posted on social media or what models have boobs.

.


It isn't "just a thing", though. The colour blue is just a thing. Why is that particular wavelength of colour understood by us as blue? Cultural definitions of "blue" aside, it's ultimately... just a thing. The wavelength is. Nobody decided that it should be.


But which demographics in a particular society that engage with wich particular forms of cultural works is definitely not something that just is, it's subjected to values and material factors.
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Like ideological state apparatus.

'Edgy' people are almost always in fact simply pushing the maintenance of the status quo.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Wargaming simply does not have the same appeal to women and girls that it does to men and boys.

The same reason romantic comedies have fewer men and boys in the theaters. It's just a thing. No one's "pushing them away"


Went through a STEM major in college, had plenty of guys quote the same line at me there, got to watch as they steadily pushed out every, single, woman, from my major, by being caustic douche nozzles. And no, it wasn't something I could just fix, I called a number of them on it repeatedly, they always went right back to "It's just a joke". Then had to spend the last two years of college listen to them whine about how there were no women in the college to associate with.

So no, I don't believe you that this is purely a preference thing. I've gotten to see how people at the game store react to my wife, and it's rarely in a socially competent way, while at least better than openly malicious, is generally enough to chase people off in short order. Though funny enough, it's been infinitely better with the bunch of newbie folks I've been playing 40k with recently rather than the typical crew at the more established stores, so perhaps there's hope for the hobby regardless. That group also included someone who'd be effected by the wording of this poll if I'm not wrong, and holy gak were they concerned about how they'd be taken. Which is hardly a surprise when people readily demean them on boards like this, I hope our group chatter wasn't nearly as off putting as some of what's come up in here would have been.

Hell, speaking of jokes, my predecessor at my first job pretty well ensured they wouldn't extend his contract with a couple of jokes including the classic "I like my coffee like I like my women, ground up and in the freezer". The VP remembered that joke from him clearly four years into my time there when she told me about it while we were discussing social weirdness in the programming community. Some of the jokes yall make just suck, and jokes in bad taste will impact people's opinion of you.
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

My wife is a manager in a software firm, and she has to fight twice as hard as the men in her workplace for respect. She has had some really foul things said to her in the past, had a manager she liked and respected tell her he was surprised she succeeded in her promotion because she is just a small woman, and been told by him that that is why he did not promote her, as well as finding out she was being paid less (about 15% less) than men doing the same job in the same organisation (which in fairness they corrected with no fuss).

Her experience in gaming is that a bossy bloke always tries to backseat game her experience, telling her what to do and "helping" in a really patronising way. I see this at my D&D table too, my group was almost all women at first, and the only dude there would constantly try to boss the others into taking certain actions on their turns or browbeat them into doing whatever he wanted them to do. It has gotten a lot better, and he is not an obnoxious person actually, but it was like his assumption was that none of the women would know how this stuff is supposed to work.

I don't think people do this stuff out of badness, but it is the expectation they build up over years and years of social programming. I think it is getting better though. I certainly have come across more women who are comfortable taking part in various roleplaying or wargaming hobbies in the last few years.

   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Lack of option in the pole for non-binary people.

Regarding people's behavior, there's something to be said for dealing with that phase we seem to go through in High School where stuff that is terrible is funny, and saying terrible things is a reasonable substitute for a sense of humor.
   
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Raging Ravener





Lovecraft Country

If nothing else, thanks to this poll for letting me know Victoria Miniatures exists.

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Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




My partner [female] also experiences "Back Seat Gaming" where she is 'Helped' to play by overly flirtatous and patronising men.

It took a few months at beating them at magic before that stopped - She doesn't play 40k outside of the home enough or with the same group enough for the experience to have faded their sadly.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
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Powerful Ushbati





United States

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Sadly you’ll always get creeps creeping.



This stuff happens. We're typically talking about a group that is completely deficient in the social graces. I'm not surprised to hear your wifes story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Future War Cultist wrote:

Anyway, over the last 5 years or so I’ve seen a marked increase in the number of women getting into the hobby. Well, in my area at least. And it’s a good thing. I welcome increasing diversity in the hobby.

And at the same time I’ve been seeing more female representation in the miniatures; dark eldar, Stormcast, nighthaunt, genestealer cults, and now the new sisters of battle. And they’re better represented too. No longer are they just eye candy in bikini armour; they’re ‘legit’, if you understand what I mean.

And I see a sort of chicken and the egg scenario here; is GW making more female minis because more women are getting into their product? Or are more women being drawn into the hobby because of the increasingly better representation of them? Is it both? Or is it irrelevant? At any rate, it’s something I can’t help but ponder.


But how many women will buy the new sisters compared to men?

Most of the female players I know, or have met over the years have played marines/guard/tyranids/orks or chaos. I don't see to many of them looking for female dominated armies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/05 04:13:23


 
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






That sounds like the minis increasing and improving representation of women is irrelevant to them. That there’s some other reason for more women getting involved. Changing social opinions?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 04:13:45


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa


 Future War Cultist wrote:
Also, that sounds like the minis increasing and improving representation of women is irrelevant to them. That there’s some other reason for more women getting involved. Changing social opinions?


Why do you say that the percentage of - to tie it into the thread - female 40k fans on Dakka has been growing? Personal anecdote, or something else? I'm not disagreeing, I have no data at all other than what this poll says. I don't really remember if it's trended upward over the lifetime of the poll.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/05 04:13:58


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




The few tournaments I attend have somewhere in the region of 1 in twenty female players, who are almost always exclusively the partners of another player there. [But who are playing in their own right, mind.]

The local gaming store which I attend/help out at does most of it's business in 40k, and has more female customers buying 40k related things than the amount that show up at tournaments, but it's still a small percentage. I'd struggle to say it's really 'improving.'

None of the female 40k players I've met have sisters armies. Tyranids seem suprisingly popular.

40k is certainly nothing like MTG in terms of it's recent attempts to attract and retain female players, I feel this is due to a few factors -

Wizards prominently highlights design level members of the team that work on the game that are female. They write articles, attend events etc.
Wizards does the same to its pro players who are female.
They've also gone overboard on this Arena steaming thing recently, and the streamers are of a wide variety of backgrounds. - Being able just to flick on Twitch and watch lots of girls playing the game is bound to be somewhat reassuring for other girls wanting to get in the hobby + They can start online without the need for in person interaction/harassment.

I watch a lot of Warhammer Youtube content, and I'm only aware of one prominent female youtuber for 40k games - And all the other channels I watch with dozens of reoccuring and one off guests - Once again the guests arn't female. It can't be terribly welcoming searching the internet to discover that pretty much no girls play the hobby and [to the best of my knowledge] none of the people that write the rules or get interviews with GW are either.

These things are all fixable - Just by GW.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






I’m not specifically talking about women in Dakka. I’m talking about women in the wider community. Specifically, the increase of women in my local gaming community.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 04:14:15


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Oh, I see what you mean now.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Rather surprised there's been a surge of comments trying to make things more inclusive for girls in war-gaming. What somebody decides to enjoy should be their own choice rather than the choices of any internet group. Personally I think girl war-gamers tend to be less competitive than their male counterparts on average which might explain the lack of women in tournaments.

As far as the game goes there's a few girl painters with their own youtube channels though I haven't watched in forever. Will more female models help? Depends on each individual woman I think but usually girls I've seen play anything but sisters of battle but it may be due to ease of access and old models.

Of course I've known girls that like sexy women, yaoi or don't mind anime boob physics. I mean anime has female representation but groping is a common joke in anime yet that probably isn't enough to discourage women watching. I also agree with warhammer 40k getting more male players and usually with several exceptions at my local gw the female players are a girlfriend, wife, sister or mother and usually quits if the male she's attached to does.

I honestly think if you want to attract a lot of women you'd probably have to anime-ize 40k make a few of the primarchs in 30k effeminate men engaging in acts of love or "love" with other primarchs.

I'd also like to make a point the gw makes great strides for female gamers sometimes at the cost of alienating long time male players. Some years back there was one girl introduced to warhammer by a few dudes and she played but eventually seemed to give up and move on. So much effort was placed on her including getting quite the haul of new models at the Christmas exchanges we have and she still later left.

Keep in mind when she was still new and tried flirting with a dude till it ended up he was getting married and she went outside for a bit i found it funny that the store manager told me id get kicked out of the shop if i ever made her feel uncomfortable. The reason that was brought up was when she left I said "woah! She's cute!". Yes I know I should be flailed for thinking a woman is cute. I rarely talked to her since and every conversation with her became incredibly forced, neutered and uncomfortable for me because i didnt want to get a store ban. Oh and the average girl at said gw gets treated better by a significant margin than any of the men. But I guess we'll get into that data so maybe another time. In fact guys are far bigger jerks to each other at the gw so I should be talking about elitist jerks that ruin things in the store for everybody else. Hardcore players are more than just white guys here and honestly there are so few women I don't think many do competitive.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/06 07:30:17


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Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






Reposting this because there’s feth all wrong with it:

Anyway, over the last 5 years or so I’ve seen a marked increase in the number of women getting into the hobby. Well, in my area at least. And it’s a good thing. I welcome increasing diversity in the hobby.

And at the same time I’ve been seeing more female representation in the miniatures; dark eldar, Stormcast, nighthaunt, genestealer cults, and now the new sisters of battle. And they’re better represented too. No longer are they just eye candy in bikini armour; they’re ‘legit’, if you understand what I mean.

And I see a sort of chicken and the egg scenario here; is GW making more female minis because more women are getting into their product? Or are more women being drawn into the hobby because of the increasingly better representation of them? Is it both? Or is it irrelevant? At any rate, it’s something I can’t help but ponder.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/06 11:10:39


 
   
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[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

It's still quoted above, but looks like it was removed accidentally when all of the OT chatter was cleaned out of the thread. So no, there was nothing wrong with that post.

 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

I dont get it, what do you mean transitioning?

Edit - Oh i get it, it says identify, i thought it said what are you.

Edit - Nvm i don't get it, how does a male transition to a male?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 12:14:45


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Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Stormatious wrote:
I dont get it, what do you mean transitioning?

Edit - Oh i get it, it says identify, i thought it said what are you.

Edit - Nvm i don't get it, how does a male transition to a male?


It means you start as a female, and you transition to a male.
Logically it should actually go under female as one is still a female at that point, imo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 12:19:36


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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

To everyone who's making light of transgender folk-please stop.

Some people are cisgender, born in a body that matches their gender expression. That's fine, and it's easy to be happy in your proper body. I personally fall under this category.

Some people are transgender, born in a body that does not match their gender expression. And it royally sucks to be dealing with a body that doesn't match how you feel. Luckily, modern medicine is capable of hormone therapy and top and/or bottom surgeries that can help someone be in their proper body.

Some people are gender fluid, when their gender isn't consistent. They might express as male one day, and female the next.

Some people are non-binary, identifying as neither male nor female.

And all of that is okay-while transgender or others on the LGBTQ spectrum have struggles that people not on it don't have, they're still people who deserve respect and NOT mocking.

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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Well personally I think yeah they should be treated well (though it depends more how nice said trans person or whoever is) but the whole gender fluid, non-binary and to an extent Trans stuff sounds more like a disorder. I have a disorder and that's ok. I have autism and am lucky enough to be fairly high functioning. Yes it sucks to have a disorder and you often get made fun of. We're all nerds and awkward though so I assume we've all been made fun of at one point. Some people are just jerks. That's life man. You can't let it get you down.

Because i'm nice however i'll go along with the gender people identify as in the choices. I only wish people could've been more respectful of my disorders but at least they understood medication would help.

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In My Lab

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well personally I think yeah they should be treated well (though it depends more how nice said trans person or whoever is) but the whole gender fluid, non-binary and to an extent Trans stuff sounds more like a disorder. I have a disorder and that's ok. I have autism and am lucky enough to be fairly high functioning. Yes it sucks to have a disorder and you often get made fun of. We're all nerds and awkward though so I assume we've all been made fun of at one point. Some people are just jerks. That's life man. You can't let it get you down.

Because i'm nice however i'll go along with the gender people identify as in the choices. I only wish people could've been more respectful of my disorders but at least they understood medication would help.
Being trans is not a disorder. I'm sorry that people weren't understanding of your issues, but that's no reason to make light of someone else's struggles.

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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 JNAProductions wrote:
 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well personally I think yeah they should be treated well (though it depends more how nice said trans person or whoever is) but the whole gender fluid, non-binary and to an extent Trans stuff sounds more like a disorder. I have a disorder and that's ok. I have autism and am lucky enough to be fairly high functioning. Yes it sucks to have a disorder and you often get made fun of. We're all nerds and awkward though so I assume we've all been made fun of at one point. Some people are just jerks. That's life man. You can't let it get you down.

Because i'm nice however i'll go along with the gender people identify as in the choices. I only wish people could've been more respectful of my disorders but at least they understood medication would help.
Being trans is not a disorder. I'm sorry that people weren't understanding of your issues, but that's no reason to make light of someone else's struggles.


Except it is entirely normal to make light of people who are different. Comedians do it all the time. It is likely something that is very important in normalising minorities in the eyes of society at large and combating prejudice.

What is important is that it is done without malice and isn't hurtful, just like it is with literally everyone, right up to and including white, hetero, males. As someone who hasn't made comments and doesn't identify as transgender, you aren't placed to comment from either perspective, and therefore are getting offended on behalf of somebody else, which is a behaviour that's widespread online, and is what really has to stop.

Demographically speaking, I'm about as "normal" as it gets. White, male, straight. All the things. But I do also suffer with a life limiting chronic illness, which does mark me out as somehwhat of a minority. I cannot tell you how irritating it is when somebody, no matter how well meaning, steps in and makes decisions for me on my own capabilites without consulting me. Arguing on behalf of a group you aren't part of is much like this. Equality is fighting your own battles, not having people think they have to fight them for you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 17:37:33


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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Philadelphia PA

 Azreal13 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well personally I think yeah they should be treated well (though it depends more how nice said trans person or whoever is) but the whole gender fluid, non-binary and to an extent Trans stuff sounds more like a disorder. I have a disorder and that's ok. I have autism and am lucky enough to be fairly high functioning. Yes it sucks to have a disorder and you often get made fun of. We're all nerds and awkward though so I assume we've all been made fun of at one point. Some people are just jerks. That's life man. You can't let it get you down.

Because i'm nice however i'll go along with the gender people identify as in the choices. I only wish people could've been more respectful of my disorders but at least they understood medication would help.
Being trans is not a disorder. I'm sorry that people weren't understanding of your issues, but that's no reason to make light of someone else's struggles.


Except it is entirely normal to make light of people who are different. Comedians do it all the time. It is likely something that is very important in normalising minorities in the eyes of society at large and combating prejudice.

What is important is that it is done without malice and isn't hurtful, just like it is with literally everyone, right up to and including white, hetero, males. As someone who hasn't made comments and doesn't identify as transgender, you aren't placed to comment from either perspective, and therefore are getting offended on behalf of somebody else, which is a behaviour that's widespread online, and is what really has to stop.

Demographically speaking, I'm about as "normal" as it gets. White, male, straight. All the things. But I do also suffer with a life limiting chronic illness, which does mark me out as somehwhat of a minority. I cannot tell you how irritating it is when somebody, no matter how well meaning, steps in and makes decisions for me on my own capabilites without consulting me. Arguing on behalf of a group you aren't part of is much like this. Equality is fighting your own battles, not having people think they have to fight them for you.


Wow, I never thought I'd see such a wordy defense of bigotry.

You don't have to be disabled to see someone bullying a disabled person and say "that's wrong stop it." You don't have to be "upset" or "triggered" to act like a decent human being.

And oftentimes it is having a person/people in the community already standing up and saying something is wrong to get change going. If someone new to the LGS tells someone to stop being a jerk they may or may not get the reaction they want. If the top X-wing player, a guy who runs the best tourneys and is well known, tells someone to cool it they're much more likely to get traction. Even if the top player is a white guy and not part of the minority involved.

What is important is that it is done without malice and isn't hurtful


And that's why this whole thread went off the rails, because the whole "I identify as a helicopter' meme is intended to be hurtful and mock a struggle people go through.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 18:29:05


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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

@scarletrose: Yeah but what bothers me most about my condition is when people treat me as a child much like people do with mentally disabled people. Give it a guess which side tends to do that and no it's not the side I tend to be on. It's basically like being between a rock and a hard place. You either get people feeling sorry for your problems and treating you like a victim/child which can't make their own decisions or you get people that are either inconsiderate or just don't know how to handle your problems. Honestly i'd probably prefer the latter because at least they treat me like an adult.

I get the whole helicopter talk people are saying is a bit of a jerk move on their part. For me I just find the 50 genders thing to be a bit excessive to say the least.

--------

Anyway to get back on topic I still don't see many women at the GW. When I go on Saturday and sunday which are some of the busiest days there's just not much. If we got 2 or 3 women on Saturday that'd probably be a lot. Compare that to like 20 guys coming and going throughout the day. I feel no reason to try hard to get women into the hobby honestly. I get that it's an un-tapped demographic and that can be good but you risk alienating your current player base by changing the lore and things too much. I mean do you guys remember the backlash when they tried to give Link from Zelda brown hair or James bond blonde hair and this was years ago. Established franchises with hardcore fanbases are some hard things to shift. Just to give you an idea what if they decided to remake the Alien series and make Ripley a man. Jesus there'd be backlash and that's normal for beloved franchises that span decades. Hardcore fans are just that way.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 18:48:37


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