Primaris Marines (Now with Stats!)

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**BunkhouseBuster**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
In terms of models I like them. Unlike the SIGMARINES, the absurd Centurions or other jazz we've gotten recently, these things actually look decent. Proportions are (mostly) there (I still think they got way too much leg day) so unlike the Centurion or Dreadknight it isn't horrible to look at.

However the whole concept weirds me out. It runs into the same problem as Centurions in that it's trying to fill a niche that's unnecessary (I'm assuming these guys will be somewhere in between a Terminator and a Marine in terms of durability and firepower). Not to mention the just-released Custodes could have filled the same role in the army if it was really that needed. Lore-wise, it's a total ass pull. And finally from a collector's perspective, it runs into all sorts of little niggles as they will look out of place in my own marine armies, but are similar enough that I don't feel justified starting a new collection just for them.

Custodes are their own niche, and still (probably) better than any Astartes, even the Primaris.

I get the feeling that the ranking of power and durability will go Scouts -> Tactical Marines -> Primaris Marines -> Terminators -> Centurions -> Custodes. Custodes are as tough as Centurions in 7th edition rules, but have access to better wargear in the fluff. My guess is that this will stay the same, at least for the time being, with Custodes still being much tougher than standard Astartes.

**Roknar**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
In terms of models I like them. Unlike the SIGMARINES, the absurd Centurions or other jazz we've gotten recently, these things actually look decent. Proportions are (mostly) there (I still think they got way too much leg day) so unlike the Centurion or Dreadknight it isn't horrible to look at.

However the whole concept weirds me out. It runs into the same problem as Centurions in that it's trying to fill a niche that's unnecessary (I'm assuming these guys will be somewhere in between a Terminator and a Marine in terms of durability and firepower). Not to mention the just-released Custodes could have filled the same role in the army if it was really that needed. Lore-wise, it's a total ass pull. And finally from a collector's perspective, it runs into all sorts of little niggles as they will look out of place in my own marine armies, but are similar enough that I don't feel justified starting a new collection just for them.

There's a lot I don't like about the nu marines, but I can get over it as long as I can convince myself that they're just truescale marines with more appropriate stats then they used to have.
If I stop to think about about what they really are it falls apart.

Still, they are better than other similar moves they have pulled in the past and likely still will.

**NoiseMarine with Tinnitus**

I was going to start a true-scale CSM project soon. No need to fiddle with plasticard now.

I think GW did a good thing here by not making them Super Duper Marines, keeping stats respectable whilst introducing a superior Marine kit without invalidating existing armies.

Also, the FAQ states the DG which are incoming have equally been upscaled too.

Happy days.

**Kandela**

Oh boy, it's really out.
I have a fear that Primaris Marines might be a power creep that will outperform everything for the sake of being "new".
Hope more armies will get upgrade to their weapon range - being stuck with radium 18" against those bolter rifles and Tau plasmas will be no fun

**Roknar**

TheLumberJack wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
In terms of models I like them. Unlike the SIGMARINES, the absurd Centurions or other jazz we've gotten recently, these things actually look decent. Proportions are (mostly) there (I still think they got way too much leg day) so unlike the Centurion or Dreadknight it isn't horrible to look at.

However the whole concept weirds me out. It runs into the same problem as Centurions in that it's trying to fill a niche that's unnecessary (I'm assuming these guys will be somewhere in between a Terminator and a Marine in terms of durability and firepower). Not to mention the just-released Custodes could have filled the same role in the army if it was really that needed. Lore-wise, it's a total ass pull. And finally from a collector's perspective, it runs into all sorts of little niggles as they will look out of place in my own marine armies, but are similar enough that I don't feel justified starting a new collection just for them.

This is why I think they are just slowly redoing the scale of the marine armies, may take a few years but eventually I feel this will be the norm for marines size

They already said they won't be the only ones and that they will be getting vehicles to match so yea.
I don't seem them updating marines anymore from here on out. This resembles the abandoned factions from AoS too much, which are equally not redundant and you can still use them.

**Strg Alt**

The Uber-Marines look good but that was to be expected. They remind me of a poor man´s Tactcal Squad, if you just perceive them from model aesthetic pov.
These guys resemble old-school Thousand Sons without any heavy or special weapons. Even the Sarge hasn´t access to power weapons of any kind. That´s just boring.
I have still 16 Tacticals to paint and these guys just don´t scratch my itch.
Furthermore a lot of marines will develop inferiority complexes because of the bolt rifles and better statline of Roboute´s boys.
Being more elite than elite was the domain of Veterans/Terminators. Well, that´s now a thing from the past.

**Marmatag**

I'm shocked people are talking about the firepower here with some level of worry.

A heavy bolter fires STR5 -1 AP, with 3 shots, at 36"

Are you afraid of heavy bolter marines? If not, you shouldn't be afraid of these. Unless they get some sick wargear options, they're just an admission that your tactical squads are bunk.

**Verviedi**

Kandela wrote:
Oh boy, it's really out.
I have a fear that Primaris Marines might be a power creep that will outperform everything for the sake of being "new".
Hope more armies will get upgrade to their weapon range - being stuck with radium 18" against those bolter rifles and Tau plasmas will be no fun

Don't worry. With Triaros Armored Conveyors presumably being given to us in Fires Of Cyraxus, we won't have to suffer much longer*.

Skitarii Rangers may actually become viable due to AP -1, as well.

*Fires Of Cyraxus not guaranteed to actually come out

**Pancakey**

TheLumberJack wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
In terms of models I like them. Unlike the SIGMARINES, the absurd Centurions or other jazz we've gotten recently, these things actually look decent. Proportions are (mostly) there (I still think they got way too much leg day) so unlike the Centurion or Dreadknight it isn't horrible to look at.

However the whole concept weirds me out. It runs into the same problem as Centurions in that it's trying to fill a niche that's unnecessary (I'm assuming these guys will be somewhere in between a Terminator and a Marine in terms of durability and firepower). Not to mention the just-released Custodes could have filled the same role in the army if it was really that needed. Lore-wise, it's a total ass pull. And finally from a collector's perspective, it runs into all sorts of little niggles as they will look out of place in my own marine armies, but are similar enough that I don't feel justified starting a new collection just for them.

This is why I think they are just slowly redoing the scale of the marine armies, may take a few years but eventually I feel this will be the norm for marines size

I think you hit the nail on the head. Also how is this going to effect 30k? Will 30k only have small-rines?

**Popsghostly**

These marines are so much better because they are like the movie marines we read about in the fluff. They are physically bigger and have more wounds.

Can't wait to see what the new terminators look like and that new dreadnought too.

**Kellevil**

I think one of the worst parts of this, lore wise, is the fact that if I want to do an army completely made of the new scale marines I will never be able to use any of the old characters.

If they had just re scaled the line you could just wait for the resculpt of your favorite character. Now if you go all new marines you wont be able to use Tiggy or any of the cool old characters. At least not without them looking out of place next to all of the bigger dudes.

**SilverAlien**

So primaris marines are sternguard with an extra wound an, only kraken rounds, and none of the other options. This may be one of the more pointless units in the game, unless they are hideously undercosted.

Also, can we acknowledge Cawl spent 10k years for an extra wound and a fancy looking bolter than only fires kraken rounds.

**Marmatag**

SilverAlien wrote:
So primaris marines are sternguard with an extra wound an, only kraken rounds, and none of the other options. This may be one of the more pointless units in the game, unless they are hideously undercosted.

Also, can we acknowledge Cawl spent 10k years for an extra wound and a fancy looking bolter than only fires kraken rounds.

Haha i was saying the same thing.

It would have been far cooler to have created new primarchs from the Emperor's DNA, to be raised by Roboute Guilliman.

Although these will be a welcome addition to Grey Knights, for instance, since we don't really have good TAC options, and PAGK are overcosted garbage.

**TheLumberJack**

Roknar wrote:
TheLumberJack wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
In terms of models I like them. Unlike the SIGMARINES, the absurd Centurions or other jazz we've gotten recently, these things actually look decent. Proportions are (mostly) there (I still think they got way too much leg day) so unlike the Centurion or Dreadknight it isn't horrible to look at.

However the whole concept weirds me out. It runs into the same problem as Centurions in that it's trying to fill a niche that's unnecessary (I'm assuming these guys will be somewhere in between a Terminator and a Marine in terms of durability and firepower). Not to mention the just-released Custodes could have filled the same role in the army if it was really that needed. Lore-wise, it's a total ass pull. And finally from a collector's perspective, it runs into all sorts of little niggles as they will look out of place in my own marine armies, but are similar enough that I don't feel justified starting a new collection just for them.

This is why I think they are just slowly redoing the scale of the marine armies, may take a few years but eventually I feel this will be the norm for marines size

They already said they won't be the only ones and that they will be getting vehicles to match so yea.
I don't seem them updating marines anymore from here on out. This resembles the abandoned factions from AoS too much, which are equally not redundant and you can still use them.

Exactly. I think from here on out they won't update any existing marine armies. Then in a year they will stop making more of the old style marines, so once they sell out they sell out. Then in 2 years they will stop updating rules for non primaris marine units and then they will slowely fade away. We will lose the older models and all the special chapters, but we will finally just have one single marine army

**Slayer-Fan123**

1. So they fire Kraken rounds standard. That's okay I guess.
2. With that, 2 attacks, and 2 Wounds, these guys are basically a bully unit. The question is if that's a role I wanted.
3. Rainbow Warriors are still around!!!

**Luciferian**

Did anyone else notice that they have racing stripes?

**Zodd1888**

Bitter TSons player here.

Knockoff Rubricae with more wounds, attacks, a rending bolter, and pistols to shoot into CC? Cool.

2 PP lower? Not cool.

They're basically even as is in and you can see that from the Rubric set at how an extra 5 guys cost 6 PP. The ability to potentially cause a mortal wound doesn't seem worth the extra points considering the extras the big dudes get.

**MechaEmperor7000**

If that does happen, at least my current marines can cosplay as "in scale" numarines with my old Bloodthirster.

Anyone remember him? eh? Eh?

**TheLumberJack**

Zodd1888 wrote:
Bitter TSons player here.

Knockoff Rubricae with more wounds, attacks, a rending bolter, and pistols to shoot into CC? Cool.

2 PP lower? Not cool.

They're basically even as is in and you can see that from the Rubric set at how an extra 5 guys cost 6 PP. The ability to potentially cause a mortal wound doesn't seem worth the extra points considering the extras the big dudes get.

They made it sound like chaos is getting some upgrades though. I think they plan on using these and new chaos models to further differentiate the loyalists from the traitors even more

**Kanluwen**

Zodd1888 wrote:
Bitter TSons player here.

Knockoff Rubricae with more wounds, attacks, a rending bolter, and pistols to shoot into CC? Cool.

2 PP lower? Not cool.

They're basically even as is in and you can see that from the Rubric set at how an extra 5 guys cost 6 PP. The ability to potentially cause a mortal wound doesn't seem worth the extra points considering the extras the big dudes get.

Q: What's the difference between your basic Rubricae Squad and the Primaris Marines?

A: The Sorcerer.

That's why they're 2 PP lower and why your extra 5 Rubricae cost 6PP(the same as Primaris Marines).

Oh, also your Inferno Boltguns have Rend -2.

**Vaktathi**

The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

**TheLumberJack**

Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

I think all units are getting this makeover

**Kanluwen**

Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

What role do Scions play for Guard? What capability gap do they fill?

What about Ratlings? After all, people keep telling me to "just use Special Weapon Squads" instead if I don't want Ratlings...

**Luciferian**

Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

It seems stupid because reimagining SM as a whole is exactly what they're doing, and they're only rolling it out this way to make it a gradual and gentle transition as opposed to making everyone's SM armies obsolete all at once.

**Hanskrampf**

Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

You can't replace the enitre Space Marine line-up, including all special flavours of Marines and vehicles, in one go.
So GW starts of with (at least) Tacticals, Specialist Teams, Assault and a Dreadnaught. Maybe even a few Hero characters, as you can play a Primaris only army.
In two-ish years, we will only have Primaris Marines, as the story advances further and Primaris Marines replace more and more portions of the chapters. Mark my words.

**TheLumberJack**

Hanskrampf wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

You can't replace the enitre Space Marine line-up, including all special flavours of Marines and vehicles, in one go.
So GW starts of with (at least) Tacticals, Specialist Teams, Assault and a Dreadnaught. Maybe even a few Hero characters, as you can play a Primaris only army.
In two-ish years, we will only have Primaris Marines, as the story advances further and Primaris Marines replace more and more portions of the chapters. Mark my words.

I exalted you so that in 2ish years your words wil be marked

**Roknar**

Luciferian wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

It seems stupid because reimagining SM as a whole is exactly what they're doing, and they're only rolling it out this way to make it a gradual and gentle transition as opposed to making everyone's SM armies obsolete all at once.

And doing it in the most cockamamie way possible in true GW fashion.

**Vaktathi**

Hanskrampf wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

You can't replace the enitre Space Marine line-up, including all special flavours of Marines and vehicles, in one go.
So GW starts of with (at least) Tacticals, Specialist Teams, Assault and a Dreadnaught. Maybe even a few Hero characters, as you can play a Primaris only army.
In two-ish years, we will only have Primaris Marines, as the story advances further and Primaris Marines replace more and more portions of the chapters. Mark my words.

oh I'm sure that's exactly what will happen, but they didnt need fluff or distinct rules for all this.

They redid the entire Dark Eldar line in one go in 5E, radically altering the visual nature of the army and replacing the entire lineup of models, and didnt need any weird fluff or rules to make that work.

**Roknar**

Hanskrampf wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

You can't replace the enitre Space Marine line-up, including all special flavours of Marines and vehicles, in one go.
So GW starts of with (at least) Tacticals, Specialist Teams, Assault and a Dreadnaught. Maybe even a few Hero characters, as you can play a Primaris only army.
In two-ish years, we will only have Primaris Marines, as the story advances further and Primaris Marines replace more and more portions of the chapters. Mark my words.

Sure you can. They're starting completely from scratch with a new edition and a new codex.
All they had to do was give marines the new profile and guns, rename a few things and release the new tactical marine box.

**G00fySmiley**

SilverAlien wrote:
So primaris marines are sternguard with an extra wound an, only kraken rounds, and none of the other options. This may be one of the more pointless units in the game, unless they are hideously undercosted.

Also, can we acknowledge Cawl spent 10k years for an extra wound and a fancy looking bolter than only fires kraken rounds.

probably like a kid in school, he was occupied doing other things and when rowboat asked him how the project was going he already had last year's volcano so he made it a little bigger to hold more coke and alkeselzer,

he did a bang-up job taking credit for the working resurrection armor that the elder got working. and since teacher girlyman was greartful he gave the project an A and went into production probably disappointed in the halfassery but not wanting to hurt cawl's feelings.