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Well I wouldn't worry about lack off support. There's alot of big things coming in the AoS pipeline being new releases and more campaign activity and GW stated in 2015 they have the next 5 years all planned for AoS releases so we'll definitely be seeing more constant support to come.

Also, as Future War Cultist and others have stated, there are places that are AoS > 40k. The hobby scene is completely random but AoS still has alot of popularity due to all the releases and supports it's been getting and 40k players it pulled in during 7th.

Will those players go back now with 8th? Sure, why wouldn't they? 8th is 40k with the AoS treatment they liked. Doesn't stop them from coming back though when the hype switches again and the pure AoS players that'll likely try out 40k now.

That's the beauty of the hobby. You play what you enjoy and there's no limits to your enjoyment but your own interests.

Baron Klatz wrote:
Gotta love all the AoS online places still having constant activity and streams of newbies and old hands joining but it's the local anecdotal evidence the anti-AoS crowd uses.

The reason that I don't give any of that online any real credibility is that when its our group in FB that has about 100 "members" but 4 of us play, that makes me skeptical of all online. If you went by facebook you would think we have masses of people playing weekly, we don't. I got in 1 game yesterday, (we dont play points, but I used 4 units of wolf riders (total of 20), 1 goblin chariot, 1 mtd chieftain, 1 spearchukka, and 1 solid unit of ardboys, because they are ardboys, I fought against 4 units of 10 kairic a-holes, 2 units of 10 tzaangors, and a gaunt summoner. cleaned their clock.) but that was 2 people playing.

That's fine but using "my local area" doesn't help either as that can't be used for the entire fanbase.

Do the members actual contribute or are they like lurkers?

Baron Klatz wrote:
That's fine but using "my local area" doesn't help either as that can't be used for the entire fanbase.

Do the members actual contribute or are they like lurkers?

if by lurker you mean weirdo in a tank top walking around with goblins in a box, then yes I contribute but no about half put something in once in a while, most just log in and do nothing,. The thing about local area (while you are correct its not the entire fanbase) is that if thats what you see and experience, then its pretty much your reality,. I have seen groups in places like England that have a large following but since thats thousands of miles away, it does me no good.

Haha, well I certainly don't think you're a weirdo.

It's fine to say it's a reality in your local area (why wouldn't you? No one wants to drive hours out of their way for a place with activity) my problem is saying AoS will be dead because a few areas don't play it or favor 40k over it when there's clearly places the opposite of that.

Baron Klatz wrote:
Haha, well I certainly don't think you're a weirdo.

It's fine to say it's a reality in your local area (why wouldn't you? No one wants to drive hours out of their way for a place with activity) my problem is saying AoS will be dead because a few areas don't play it or favor 40k over it when there's clearly places the opposite of that.

I don't think it will go away any time soon, but it certainly is not a good sign that it has not completely captured markets that used to be firmly in GW's hands. That is not entirely AoS fault, but it hurt more than helped in many places. AoS really reminds me most of D&D 4th edition (which I still run) in that I no one asked for it to be made, didnt want it to destroy what came before it. Its fun, but would never call it a "great" game. It split the fan base in ways a new edition of a game rarely does unless its a radical departure.

I don't think it'll go away at all.

Way too many IP and copyright benefits that the Old World couldn't give it and infinite space to build on.

It's only been two years and has done pretty well with big contributions to GW's huge profits. We'll have to see down the years how it'll continue to go but if keeps up the performance it's been doing it'll be the successful little brother of 40k and make back the fandom that wfb accumulated over 30 years.

Baron Klatz wrote:
I don't think it'll go away at all.

Way too many IP and copyright benefits that the Old World couldn't give it and infinite space to build on.

It's only been two years and has done pretty well with big contributions to GW's huge profits. We'll have to see down the years how it'll continue to go but if keeps up the performance it's been doing it'll be the successful little brother of 40k and make back the fandom that wfb accumulated over 30 years.

They have made some moves that I personally think are good, with having C7 do a AoS rpg, the boardgame tie ins, they are really trying to make a setting that appeals to people ( I dont think they did a good job out of the gate with it, and I dont think its nearly as good as the old world, but time will tell) I dont believe they will ever recover their former glory, warhammer lived in a vacuum more or less for its early years, it didnt have to compete with what AoS will, and that competition is really good. In many ways GW will have to content itself with being a fish in the pond, not the big fish in a little pond.

Oh, I very much agree with all of that.

They missed out on so much opportunities for a glorious start to the game and setting. The learned their lesson for 8th but AoS would've taken off immediately if the grand alliance books and handbook were initial releases and they made a "realm chronicles" fluff book to fully explain the setting, the 8 realms, the age of myth and the age of chaos.

Heck, starting in the age of myth with the mortal empires and majority of the factions being from the Old World would've made the transition seamless and then build up to the glorious Stormcast.Though Stormcast are a far better option for a starter set source due to ease of painting and building, I think a starter set with a collection of armored Lantic knights, Order Draconis Aelves and Duardin would've served the same purpose as well give a good grim tone to the setting as Order goes from loss to loss until the Stormcast arrive to turn the tide.

Also, agreed on GW being a fish in a pond or as I see it just another kingdom among many after their crumbling empire finally fell. I find this good as this means no more resting on laurels and letting games stagnate. They'll stay towards the top by working for it and making their games and systems top-notch and able to stand up to the opposition.

Baron Klatz wrote:
Oh, I very much agree with all of that.

They missed out on so much opportunities for a glorious start to the game and setting. The learned their lesson for 8th but AoS would've taken off immediately if the grand alliance books and handbook were initial releases and they made a "realm chronicles" fluff book to fully explain the setting, the 8 realms, the age of myth and the age of chaos.

Heck, starting in the age of myth with the mortal empires and majority of the factions being from the Old World would've made the transition seamless and then build up to the glorious Stormcast.Though Stormcast are a far better option for a starter set source due to ease of painting and building, I think a starter set with a collection of armored Lantic knights, Order Draconis Aelves and Duardin would've served the same purpose as well give a good grim tone to the setting as Order goes from loss to loss until the Stormcast arrive to turn the tide.

Also, agreed on GW being a fish in a pond or as I see it just another kingdom among many after their crumbling empire finally fell. I find this good as this means no more resting on laurels and letting games stagnate. They'll stay towards the top by working for it and making their games and systems top-notch and able to stand up to the opposition.

You know, now that you mention "turning the tide" I think that is really the biggest "change/feeling" in both AoS and 8th edition. Previous "grimdark" was all about the inevitable defeat, but the new stuff seems...more "optimistic" I admit, while I am more of a death/destruction kind of player, I did enjoy the stormcast making khorne their b**** in the starter set. There is something about the "good guys" not just barely clinging on, but going on the offensive that feels "right" after so long...maybe its just me.

I was thinking about a single thing that could boost popularity and sales. Imagine a hypothetical Guide to the Mortal Realms (for those of you familiar with the Guide to Glorantha): a 300 page, full colour, packed with setting information, no model photoshots, no battleplans, battalions, rules or anything that remotely addresses the gaming side - just text and pictures . It would be much better than the Realmgate wars books in terms of building up a setting knowledge base since you need to "only buy one book". Such a thing may render part of the battletomes obsolete(the first 1/3 - the army description), but I guess their sales aren't as great aswell due to the free core rules. I've never held or seen physically any of the older WHFB setting books like Lost and the Damned etc, but It is some knid of circulating common knowledge that they were immensely popular. One of the factors why 40k pulls so far ahead of 40k is that it still retains its setting knowledge base and 2 years from its launch AoS is still struggling in that direction. We all know that the setting is supposed to be as open as it could be, but perhaps it is finally time to address this matter...

I think a book that fleshes out all of the mortal realms, maps, places of interest, people of interest, Time of War rules... that this would be huge in attracting more attention.

Granted this will only really appeal to the narrative style players more so than the competitive players who largely don't care about background, but it would be huge none the less.

 auticus wrote:
I think a book that fleshes out all of the mortal realms, maps, places of interest, people of interest, Time of War rules... that this would be huge in attracting more attention.

Granted this will only really appeal to the narrative style players more so than the competitive players who largely don't care about background, but it would be huge none the less.

You would need creative people for this line of work. I can´t see GW pulling this of. When the new White Dwarf hit the stores everybody was hyped about it´s content including me. There were additional rules for Deathwatch Overkill, Blood Bowl, Imperial Knight: Renegade, etc. However the last issues were just advertisement material. GW is just too lazy nowadays to provide their customers with exciting new stuff for their games.

I would love a book like that. But is it not true that part of the appeal of AoS is that they can basically make it all up as they go along provided that it fits into the 8 realms and four grand alliance framework? They're not tied down by anything. Well, almost anything.

The book wouldn't be the be all end all of everything in the realms. It would expand on them greatly though. Right now there are very few points of interest in the realms from the "official material".

Remember that "official material" matters most to many people.

Indeed, always more room for the realms to be filled out so a fluff book (and upcoming rpg) can only do good!

Also a bestiary would be glorious.

You would need creative people for this line of work. I can´t see GW pulling this of.

You haven't read the AoS novels, battletomes or Hammerhal background book then.

GW has amazing ideas for the setting, we just need them all in one place!

What about the possibility that any slowing down of sales is just in anticipation of the second generals handbook?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
What about the possibility that any slowing down of sales is just in anticipation of the second generals handbook?

I think there's a lot to that, actually. Since most folks who follow AoS know it's coming "any time now," the more competitive players (which is probably the majority, still, in most places) are likely holding off to see what the points value tweaks are.

That said, the Path to Glory coming this week might be a nice stopgap for that (I know I'm picking it up, and its timing is actually pretty good since we're wrapping up a Skirmish campaign). I'm sure I'm not the only one excited by a new supplement, though I don't think it will have the impact GHB2 most likely will.

 Just Tony wrote:


Warmaster was dead on arrival. EVERY store I went to in a five county area could barely GIVE it away. Even when they clearance it out, it sat there forever. It didn't die because it wasn't supported, It died because it was awful and only a few diehards would play it. It went to Specialist Games so a few more dollars could be milked out of it without needing mainline support.

And your opinion of Warhammer Skirmish and Mordheim are noted, and I disagree with them wholeheartedly. Especially since damn near every faction/race was given Warband rules through Town Cryer. AOS isn't even REMOTELY the same game, so you can't say it gave people what they wanted in a Warhammer skirmish game.

I said AoS Skirmish gives players of AoS what they want in a skirmish game. Mordheim did NOT give everyone who played WHFB what they wanted in a skirmish game. The very structure of the rules were different, and while you can claim that Town Cryer put out a lot of rules for alternate forces they were not part of the main game, and the Specialist magazines were very difficult for a lot of players to get. I played Mordheim for many years.

I've spent quite a bit of money on 40k (and also Bloodbowl) these past 2 months. Now the dust is settling though, I am hankering after more AoS again and there's no doubt in my mind that AoS is going to be my main game moving forward still (I prefer the AoS rules to the 40k 8th rules).

Can't wait for my next tournament. A 100 capacity event in September! Also can't wait for GHBII and Path to Glory. Now with all the supplements I have steam and motivation to get my smaller projects up to certain levels (I.e get my Bloodbound and Troggoths forces complete for Skirmish, get my Death complete for Path to Glory).

40k has been super exciting since its release, but it's settling into my secondary game (not my primary) quite comfortably.

What about the other regulars on the AoS boards?

I'm literally 50/50 on both. When we get together it's always one game of each. Having said that, I've got two active AoS armies and only one active 40k army so right now AoS comes out slightly ahead.

40k has always been by and far the dominant game here.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
It's because unfortunately AoS was a failed launch, it had what it needed but stripped right out the gate. When they shut out their old players and kinda nuked the world it really left a bitter taste in people's mouth.

The other problem I see with AoS is that, who the gak is the target audience? Like not trolling here really wanna know who were they trying to appeal to with AoS, it sure as hell was not fantasy players.

I love the AoS game, is very fun with the few small game so have played and I have a full army planned and slow going to get it but, it's so dead at my store almost no one plays it, even our store manager has kinda given up on it.

AoS was made for those who like sifi.

I assume they thought, hey if we introduce sifi into fantasy people who like both will play it. Rather then no one likes it and ditches it.

But it is almost enjoyable if you do not play against the stormcast or the elves in wooden suits.

I played I think 6 time and so far I refused every game with anyone who has a stormcast army.... it almost makes it a fantasy game again.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
It's because unfortunately AoS was a failed launch, it had what it needed but stripped right out the gate. When they shut out their old players and kinda nuked the world it really left a bitter taste in people's mouth.

The other problem I see with AoS is that, who the gak is the target audience? Like not trolling here really wanna know who were they trying to appeal to with AoS, it sure as hell was not fantasy players.

I love the AoS game, is very fun with the few small game so have played and I have a full army planned and slow going to get it but, it's so dead at my store almost no one plays it, even our store manager has kinda given up on it.

AoS was made for those who like sifi.

I assume they thought, hey if we introduce sifi into fantasy people who like both will play it. Rather then no one likes it and ditches it.

But it is almost enjoyable if you do not play against the stormcast or the elves in wooden suits.

I played I think 6 time and so far I refused every game with anyone who has a stormcast army.... it almost makes it a fantasy game again.

I did not know nature fey spirits, dwarfs with flaming runes in there skin riding magma dragons Or a bunch dudes who turn into lightning bolts when they die were sifi.

An army of super paladins is too much for you? Aos is mythical/epic fantasy, it is more fantastical then the old world.

 Bottle wrote:
I've spent quite a bit of money on 40k (and also Bloodbowl) these past 2 months. Now the dust is settling though, I am hankering after more AoS again and there's no doubt in my mind that AoS is going to be my main game moving forward still (I prefer the AoS rules to the 40k 8th rules).

Can't wait for my next tournament. A 100 capacity event in September! Also can't wait for GHBII and Path to Glory. Now with all the supplements I have steam and motivation to get my smaller projects up to certain levels (I.e get my Bloodbound and Troggoths forces complete for Skirmish, get my Death complete for Path to Glory).

40k has been super exciting since its release, but it's settling into my secondary game (not my primary) quite comfortably.

What about the other regulars on the AoS boards?

It's been going on a similar path in my area, and all my friends and group of players who like AoS and attended multiple tournaments and event before 8th are still standing behind AoS, myself included. It is our primary game. BUT, and unlike you, I find the 40k's 8th edition rules an improvement over the AoS rules, and right now, the number of events dropped hard. So we're all preparing new armies for 40k, because it's basically the same game with slightly better rules. But we also keep working on our AoS, and I'm myself building a 2000pts Tomb King force like I've never seen anywhere before (I'll drop a pic on the project thread soon). We also have an AoS tournament in September, so that good... but if GHBII doesn't come out soon, and with better rules (PLEASE HAVE THE CHARACTER TARGETING RULE OF 8TH), I'm afraid less and less people are going to play.

But with GHBII, and the new sea/sky/cthulu Aelves, I'm confident things will lift off again.

Just putting this out there, but when I popped into my local GS this Saturday there was one game of AoS going on (I just saw stormcast) and after I had at them they're now almost sold out of Overlords. So with this evidence I think AoS is still doing well in my area but without asking anyone I still can't be completely sure.

Managed to make it to my FLGS for the first time in a while this weekend. Lots of 40k going on, but I was surprised to see a couple people looking at the AoS kits. We've got a lot of growing interest in my area, and I'm hoping to drum up a little more. I anyone happens to be in the Amarillo, TX area on August 5-6, stop by Amacon at the Amarillo Civic Center. I'll be demoing Age of Sigmar both days