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Primaris Deathwatch sounds quite fluffy, actually. I approve.

 Melissia wrote:
Primaris Deathwatch sounds quite fluffy, actually. I approve.

Melissia's seal of approval

Perhaps I must now haha. Time to sculpt some shoulder pads

Long time no see, youre one of the few users I used to know that I have yet to say hello to since returning from my self imposed dakka exile while I was finishing college. Howve you been?

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Funnuy enough Im a minotaurs guy too and I take the opposite dtance- I see the minotaurs as probably the very first adopters of the Primaris.

Why?

A) counter balance to Roboute. He can call in his Ultras for anything at any time. It's incredibly useful having another pocket Astartes chapter that answers to you, and not him.

B) like wise the Ultras have just been hugely boosted with tje new Primaris Astartes- it only makes sense to ensure that yournown forces are at at least the same level of capability as your potential enemies.

C) being so closely tied to the high lords means that they can be reinforced immediately, meaning that they probably get access to the very best of the best astartes using thier geneseed...

D) The gene seed of which Ive always liked the thought of being originally World Eater geneseed. Which given that Cawl made Adyartes from all 20 primarchs already makes you wonder if maybe some of the high lords have known what
he was doing for a long time. Some of the other chapters from around the time of the cursed fonding seem alot like prototypes, or experimental releases leading up to this.

E) Or perhaps Roboute himself likes having an extra force of Astartes beyond the Ultras to call upon at his leasure. The Ultras cant be everywhere at once, and the Minotaurs have an excellent skill set. Very much justifiable to give them the primaris treatment.

You know Robute is the head of the High Lords, so he'd already have them at hand

After losing their beloved Captain Tycho, fighting off Orks, Nids and Daemons, my 3rd Blood Angels immediately welcome their new Primaris Brothers, and throw them in to the front lines.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Funnuy enough Im a minotaurs guy too and I take the opposite dtance- I see the minotaurs as probably the very first adopters of the Primaris.

Why?

A) counter balance to Roboute. He can call in his Ultras for anything at any time. It's incredibly useful having another pocket Astartes chapter that answers to you, and not him.

B) like wise the Ultras have just been hugely boosted with tje new Primaris Astartes- it only makes sense to ensure that yournown forces are at at least the same level of capability as your potential enemies.

C) being so closely tied to the high lords means that they can be reinforced immediately, meaning that they probably get access to the very best of the best astartes using thier geneseed...

D) The gene seed of which Ive always liked the thought of being originally World Eater geneseed. Which given that Cawl made Adyartes from all 20 primarchs already makes you wonder if maybe some of the high lords have known what
he was doing for a long time. Some of the other chapters from around the time of the cursed fonding seem alot like prototypes, or experimental releases leading up to this.

E) Or perhaps Roboute himself likes having an extra force of Astartes beyond the Ultras to call upon at his leasure. The Ultras cant be everywhere at once, and the Minotaurs have an excellent skill set. Very much justifiable to give them the primaris treatment.

You know Robute is the head of the High Lords, so he'd already have them at hand

yup, hoenstly I think there's something to be done with the minotaurs on this, with the rise of Gulliman have they been supplanted by the Ultramarines? have they fallen into the orbit of a high lord whose not nesscarily buddy buddy with Gulliman. Are they Gulliman's "strong left hand" while the UMs are his right hand? lotta potential

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


You know Robute is the head of the High Lords, so he'd already have them at hand

Of course- but several things are worth thinking about.

1) Roboute is now leader of the high lords, but even acter a century of sitting there thats a pretty sudden change, and the ties of patronage and favors didn't suddenly disappear either. Chances are anyone who was a highlord and now isnt because of Roboute still commands ALOT of power.

2) further, The minotaurs and ultramarines are noted as having something of a rivalry with the Ultramarines and have insulted Marneus Calgar. Whobnows just how willing the Minotaurs themselves would be to be commanded by Roboute?

Considering those two things I think the Minotaurs are very likely to continue to be in partnerships with the other high lords.

And as long as its kept reasonable Roboute might even be okay with that status quo. Letting the other high lords have thier toys keeps up the appearance of Roboute just being a regent, not a new Emperor...

The Sons of Dantioch are extreme backwards in their tech as they have refused most of the new tech since the horus heresy they still keep to their primachs (loyal) words that MKIII is the best designed armour for their combat roles So unless you can get primaris marines in MKIII armour the manufactorums in the Schadenhold wont be able to keep them supplied with vital equipment

So to answer the question we will accept the technology on how to make primaris marines but we shall now keep in mind me might need to talk about maybe altering our powerarmour supplylines but the chaptermaster and the forge priests will agree that after 10000 years of producing MKIII the machinespirit will not be pleased and might die after its long and loyal service to the emperor

SO we would accept the tech but becouse of logistic reasons we might abstain of recruiting primaris marines for standard battleroles.

It's strange, reading through this thread, because there are two ways to view it.

In terms of players talking about a game, it would appear most people still want to be Wolverine and not Cyclops. The ego of your average fella' sees goodness and naiveté as the same thing, and wants to be the rebel who plays by his own set of rules, only to turn out to always be right in the end.

In terms of this being in-universe characters with these opinions, it would gladden the heart of my World Eaters to see such rampant dissension amongst the Imperial ranks. The Primarch already had a nearly impossible task ahead of him, and as he attempts to be the face of authority and deliverer of light, the paranoia and suspicions of the debased modern Astartes instinctively recoil from that light, and choose to walk the path of the renegade. Horus is gone, but the Heresy is apparently far from over, and Chaos has many friends amongst the Primarch's supposed allies.

My marines are all about Bernie or bust


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, you said Primaris

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Howve you been?

Stressed out, overworked, underemployed. Have only just now, after a break basically since late fifth edition, started to get back in to 40k. Have started assembly on scouts for my 1st and 10th Blood Angels list.

I don't really like what Primaris represent-- being GW's next step up on its perpetual attempts to create Marines to the Marine'th power. But like it or not, they're a thing in 40k now. And if they were to be justified to exist without facing suspicion anywhere outside of ultramarines and their successor chapters, I'd say Inquisition or Deathwatch would be the best place for them, since both will take marines from almost any walk of life as long as they're willing to serve with distinction.

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoiler:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Funnuy enough Im a minotaurs guy too and I take the opposite dtance- I see the minotaurs as probably the very first adopters of the Primaris.

Why?

A) counter balance to Roboute. He can call in his Ultras for anything at any time. It's incredibly useful having another pocket Astartes chapter that answers to you, and not him.

B) like wise the Ultras have just been hugely boosted with tje new Primaris Astartes- it only makes sense to ensure that yournown forces are at at least the same level of capability as your potential enemies.

C) being so closely tied to the high lords means that they can be reinforced immediately, meaning that they probably get access to the very best of the best astartes using thier geneseed...

D) The gene seed of which Ive always liked the thought of being originally World Eater geneseed. Which given that Cawl made Adyartes from all 20 primarchs already makes you wonder if maybe some of the high lords have known what
he was doing for a long time. Some of the other chapters from around the time of the cursed fonding seem alot like prototypes, or experimental releases leading up to this.

E) Or perhaps Roboute himself likes having an extra force of Astartes beyond the Ultras to call upon at his leasure. The Ultras cant be everywhere at once, and the Minotaurs have an excellent skill set. Very much justifiable to give them the primaris treatment.

You know Robute is the head of the High Lords, so he'd already have them at hand

yup, hoenstly I think there's something to be done with the minotaurs on this, with the rise of Gulliman have they been supplanted by the Ultramarines? have they fallen into the orbit of a high lord whose not nesscarily buddy buddy with Gulliman. Are they Gulliman's "strong left hand" while the UMs are his right hand? lotta potential

Lot of potential indeed, but I wouldnt hold my breath on it being explored.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

Spoiler:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


You know Robute is the head of the High Lords, so he'd already have them at hand

Of course- but several things are worth thinking about.

1) Roboute is now leader of the high lords, but even acter a century of sitting there thats a pretty sudden change, and the ties of patronage and favors didn't suddenly disappear either. Chances are anyone who was a highlord and now isnt because of Roboute still commands ALOT of power.

2) further, The minotaurs and ultramarines are noted as having something of a rivalry with the Ultramarines and have insulted Marneus Calgar. Whobnows just how willing the Minotaurs themselves would be to be commanded by Roboute?

Considering those two things I think the Minotaurs are very likely to continue to be in partnerships with the other high lords.

And as long as its kept reasonable Roboute might even be okay with that status quo. Letting the other high lords have thier toys keeps up the appearance of Roboute just being a regent, not a new Emperor...

Well Robute has already shown to not be like Calgar to the point Calgar kinda has an issue with him. The Minotaurs could not have a problem with him at all. He could leave them with the Lords, because its not like he'd be worried about them considering he has the Custodes at his command now days, what threat could they pose?

the issue between him and Calgar seems more in Calgar's mind, seeing slights that aren't there, fear of not being good eneugh etc. that combined with the fact that Gulliman's things have a near holy reverance for most Ultramarines but for Gulliman it's just his old stuff. it'd be like if jesus came back and we found the Holy Grail, while people are all going ape over the Holy Grail, Jesus is just like "ohh hey my cup, hey take this and go get me some beer would you?"

Ah, I see.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Ah, I see.

\
doesn't mean it can't lead to some tension but it'd be more along the lines of *Calgar turns of Gulliman, and gives some long winded explination listing all his slights* followed by Gulliman looking at him funny, face palming and saying "DUDE! I WAS COMPLIMENTING YOU!"

Which is unfortunate. As he is right now, Guilliman is... kinda boring, to me. But that's another topic entirely; let's get back to primaris.

 Melissia wrote:
Which is unfortunate. As he is right now, Guilliman is... kinda boring, to me. But that's another topic entirely; let's get back to primaris.

there's some intreasting stuff that COULD be done with Gulliman (dark Imperium is worth reading if you haven't already) but I'm of the mind we won't see much done with him. generally GW doesn't do much with ANY of their characters, I can't think of many chars with a mini that have a deep compelling back story too. most of the real intreasting 40k chars tend to be characters designed for a novel. not table top special characters who later appered in a book

Yeah, but IMO he's the least intersting character released thus far for tabletop, and I include the other primarchs in that.

From a fluff perspective I'd have to imagine the Exorcists don't have any. There's no way on mars they were possessing marines with daemons to purge the ranks somewhat

I'm taking opposite approaches with my two homebrew chapters.

My codex-compliant Knights of the Ardent Flame will, for the foreseeable future, refuse Primaris reinforcements.
Practically this is because I already had a road map for where I want this army to get, model-wise, but I also like to think of it this way:

My army consists largely of the 3rd company, who were in the process of replenishing heavy losses following a campaign against a Tyranid splinter fleet (so making use of scouts and 9th/10th-company reserves), right around 999 M41.

So when the events of the Gathering Storm happened and Guilliman shows up and shakes up the Imperium they actually wind up resentful rather than inspired. After all, they were working hard to rebuild their chapter/company on their own - who is this primarch to show up and tell them they're going about it wrong, and to start doing things 'his' way? It's very much a lesson in "never meet your hero" for this chapter and they are suspicious and distrustful of Guilliman and all the change he calls for.



Now on the other hand my Blood Angels successors, the Bronze Angels, embrace the change. This is another instance of me taking fluff cues from how I'm planning out army building/model purchases. I only went for 'fast' models for this army so that it played differently from my other marine forces, so I came up with fluff reasons to explain away the lack of tanks, slow models like terminators, etc. by having the Bronze Angels be a fleet-based chapter with limited resources. They are always on the move and considered by the Inquisition to be borderline heretics (because they embrace the Black Rage), so they have problems with logistics, etc. which means they favour units that can deploy rapidly and they eschew all else.

In looking to expand this army, though, the Primaris range seems like an interesting opportunity so I've figured a way to work out some fluff to allow it.

Having been recalled to Baal to aid the Blood Angels in their hour of need, they were present when Guilliman showed up with reinforcements. Being religious fanatics they, like many others, view him as an incarnation of the Emperor's will and are willing to bend over backwards to please him. This combined with suffering heavy losses when aiding the Blood Angels means that they accept Primaris reinforcements (and other additions) readily.



So that's two takes on it, driven by a combination of purchasing decisions/practicality and fluff intermingling.

As for official chapters, well, I decided to make my Space Wolves up as Egil Ironwolf's great company...shortly before he died. So I've since decided to collect the company as a historically re-created 'snapshot' from their time prior to all that unpleasantness on Fenris - so no Primaris.

On the other hand, I've been wanting for a while to collect a small batch of Aurora marines because I like the way they look, but it was always hard to justify starting another marine army that would essentially wind up too similar to one I already own. And then the Primaris come along... So I'm going 100% Primaris for them as a fun, small-scale project.

My BA 3rd company will be all over them, as with all BA they need all hands on deck now.

My stonefists chapter won't have a problem with the primaris reinforcements, but the primaris will have a problem with them, the feeling being one of incredulity, as in, 'how could you guys let it get this bad', and thus stomp around with a strong sense of superiority, provoking the original marines to ever more reckless - not to mention suicidal - feats in battle.

My Blood Ravens have intergrated Primaris Marines as they have forged a natural partnership with Gulliman's new crop of Historians

Templers, well yes they need all hands on deck. There's a mega crudade on.. We need to get on that stuff!

Space wolves yes. Hour of need.
They might not be perfectly wolfy but the chapters survival at stake.

I'm not sure how the official lore will treat this, but (my) Pedro Kantor will be furious.

You've secretly had VII Legion gene-seed this whole fething time? You fully knew that almost every single one of our battle-brothers were lost. The Crimson Fists of the Second Founding, chosen by Dorn himself, were nearly eradicated.

While we stared into oblivion and feared (yes, feared) for the future of our entire chapter, you were buried in a fething forgeworld somewhere sitting on stockpiles of Dorn's blood. HERESY. You knew our loses yet withheld our birthright. HERESY. You tinkered and spliced with the most sacred relic to an Astartes, the gene-seed of their Primarch, hoping you could surpass the designs of the Emperor of Mankind. HERESY.

We don't want your fething gift. They weren't born around Rynn's World. They didn't pass our trials. They haven't plunged their left gauntlet. They weren't bleeding on the walls, they weren't hewn at the gates, and they can't recite the Oath of Rynn. Everyone involved with this betrayal of our chapter will be put to the fist, and unless every last VII Legion gland is returned to the rightful Sons of Dorn, even Guilliman himself may suddenly feel quite sleepy again...

(That's my take on Pedro's response!)

Iron Mike wrote:
I'm not sure how the official lore will treat this, but (my) Pedro Kantor will be furious.

You've secretly had VII Legion gene-seed this whole fething time? You fully knew that almost every single one of our battle-brothers were lost. The Crimson Fists of the Second Founding, chosen by Dorn himself, were nearly eradicated.

While we stared into oblivion and feared (yes, feared) for the future of our entire chapter, you were buried in a fething forgeworld somewhere sitting on stockpiles of Dorn's blood. HERESY. You knew our loses yet withheld our birthright. HERESY. You tinkered and spliced with the most sacred relic to an Astartes, the gene-seed of their Primarch, hoping you could surpass the designs of the Emperor of Mankind. HERESY.

We don't want your fething gift. They weren't born around Rynn's World. They didn't pass our trials. They haven't plunged their left gauntlet. They weren't bleeding on the walls, they weren't hewn at the gates, and they can't recite the Oath of Rynn. Everyone involved with this betrayal of our chapter will be put to the fist, and unless every last VII Legion gland is returned to the rightful Sons of Dorn, even Guilliman himself may suddenly feel quite sleepy again...

(That's my take on Pedro's response!)

except Pedro KNEW THEY HAD IT, keeping some of the tithed geneseed for new foundings is how they've done it for ten thousand years

In regards to the topic's original question: Heresy!

My Marines would see as some sort of mistake, as the Astartes are clearly the purest and most powerful warriors of the Imperium. These so called "Primaris" are clearly imposters, or worse.



I actually do like the models, most of them anyway. Very imposing in terms of appearance.

Fluff wise, I would like to see a civil war break out within the Imperium, with Roboute leading one side, and the Administratum leading the other (all I could think of when Roboute came out was all the Imperial higher-ups who would react badly, realizing that their places in the upper echelons of Imperial society are at risk!)

BrianDavion wrote:

Iron Mike wrote:
I'm not sure how the official lore will treat this, but (my) Pedro Kantor will be furious.

You've secretly had VII Legion gene-seed this whole fething time? You fully knew that almost every single one of our battle-brothers were lost. The Crimson Fists of the Second Founding, chosen by Dorn himself, were nearly eradicated.

While we stared into oblivion and feared (yes, feared) for the future of our entire chapter, you were buried in a fething forgeworld somewhere sitting on stockpiles of Dorn's blood. HERESY. You knew our loses yet withheld our birthright. HERESY. You tinkered and spliced with the most sacred relic to an Astartes, the gene-seed of their Primarch, hoping you could surpass the designs of the Emperor of Mankind. HERESY.

We don't want your fething gift. They weren't born around Rynn's World. They didn't pass our trials. They haven't plunged their left gauntlet. They weren't bleeding on the walls, they weren't hewn at the gates, and they can't recite the Oath of Rynn. Everyone involved with this betrayal of our chapter will be put to the fist, and unless every last VII Legion gland is returned to the rightful Sons of Dorn, even Guilliman himself may suddenly feel quite sleepy again...

(That's my take on Pedro's response!)

except Pedro KNEW THEY HAD IT, keeping some of the tithed geneseed for new foundings is how they've done it for ten thousand years

He knew of the tithed gene-seed needed to ensure the future of the Adeptus Astartes as a whole, but he didn't know that some reclusive Martian tech-mage was hoarding hidden, undocumented LEGIONS worth for <insert any reason here really, they all pale in comparison to replenishing an entire Second Founding chapter.> What if Guilliman wasn't revived? Not an abstract line of thinking, since he'd been dead for 10 000 fething years. He would have just kept "researching" for eternity while the Crimson Fists teetered on the brink. Tithed gene-seed is an understandable necessity, a colossal cache of stolen gene-seed is an exterminatus-level heresy. It was given to Cawl by Guilliman? Wrong primarch melon-fether. He was NEVER our "spiritual liege" and Dorn's genetics were NEVER his to give, least of all to some unknown data-spitting servo-abomination a millennia ago.

(Pedro sure does seem upset!)

Iron Mike wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Iron Mike wrote:
I'm not sure how the official lore will treat this, but (my) Pedro Kantor will be furious.

You've secretly had VII Legion gene-seed this whole fething time? You fully knew that almost every single one of our battle-brothers were lost. The Crimson Fists of the Second Founding, chosen by Dorn himself, were nearly eradicated.

While we stared into oblivion and feared (yes, feared) for the future of our entire chapter, you were buried in a fething forgeworld somewhere sitting on stockpiles of Dorn's blood. HERESY. You knew our loses yet withheld our birthright. HERESY. You tinkered and spliced with the most sacred relic to an Astartes, the gene-seed of their Primarch, hoping you could surpass the designs of the Emperor of Mankind. HERESY.

We don't want your fething gift. They weren't born around Rynn's World. They didn't pass our trials. They haven't plunged their left gauntlet. They weren't bleeding on the walls, they weren't hewn at the gates, and they can't recite the Oath of Rynn. Everyone involved with this betrayal of our chapter will be put to the fist, and unless every last VII Legion gland is returned to the rightful Sons of Dorn, even Guilliman himself may suddenly feel quite sleepy again...

(That's my take on Pedro's response!)

except Pedro KNEW THEY HAD IT, keeping some of the tithed geneseed for new foundings is how they've done it for ten thousand years

He knew of the tithed gene-seed needed to ensure the future of the Adeptus Astartes as a whole, but he didn't know that some reclusive Martian tech-mage was hoarding hidden, undocumented LEGIONS worth for <insert any reason here really, they all pale in comparison to replenishing an entire Second Founding chapter.> What if Guilliman wasn't revived? Not an abstract line of thinking, since he'd been dead for 10 000 fething years. He would have just kept "researching" for eternity while the Crimson Fists teetered on the brink. Tithed gene-seed is an understandable necessity, a colossal cache of stolen gene-seed is an exterminatus-level heresy. It was given to Cawl by Guilliman? Wrong primarch melon-fether. He was NEVER our "spiritual liege" and Dorn's genetics were NEVER his to give, least of all to some unknown data-spitting servo-abomination a millennia ago.

(Pedro sure does seem upset!)

Actually he has every right to use that gene seed. Gulliman did not insistute this program as "Primarch of the Ultramarines" he did it as Lord Commander of the Imperium and heads of the Lords of Terra. as Such Gulliman is well within his rights to order gene seed produced for a new founding. prior to the Ultama founding there where 26 seperate space Marine foundings. all produced the same way, with limited numbers of geneseed being used to produce MORE geneseed.

But that doesn't mean the non-ultramarine chapters will see it that way. Nor do they have to. Them being offended and angered by this is WELL within the nature of 40k's setting.

Dark Apostle Jerumiah of the Word Bearers initially scoffs at the claims of taller, faster, stronger Loyalist marines. Perhaps the whimsies of a Sorcerer with too much time gazing into the Warp...? However, after encountering them during a raid in Imperial territory, he must give pause. The Octed mentioned a son of the Anathema would rise and renew their hated enemies, but very little of the details. Too late does he realize what it meant for the doomed raid, and for his plans in the future.
He's about to order slaves to clean up the mess (he killed the Chaos Marine giving him the message in a fit of rage), when he pauses. His thoughts drift to the events of Horus's rebellion, to the scheming of Erebus to corrupt the Warmaster and the other Legions. How easy it was to show his naive cousins the truth, to push them against the False Emperor and his so-called plans for Humanity. These new "Primaris" Marines, as they are called, have greater capabilities than their predecessors, yes, but lack the experience. True, they've been versed in the "dangers" of Chaos. But was Horus not versed in the dangers of the Warp? Just how much do they truly know of the Primordial Truth? How much knowledge do the pure-bred brethren keep from the new stock of aberrants? How much trust is vested in them? Is there a way to erode said trust, and instead turn them to the Truth, perhaps swell his own Warband's numbers with reinforcements?
Jerumiah dabs his fingers in the pool of blood and reaches for skin parchment. From the ancient Colchisian runes, a plan forms. Slowly but surely, a malicious smile forms upon his face...