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Dark Reapers are amazing, Take a warlock to conceal them or place in cover giving them 2+ saves.

They pump out insane fire power.

Put them in a Bastion - squad of 10. Profit!

 lambsandlions wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:


Sup Command Detachment
4 Troop Master - 4 Embrace 4 Fusion

One transport has 3 Masters in it. Others have a HQ and 5 Troops

Dark Reapers rain hell on most killy thing they have turn 1 so there hopefully wont be any issues getting into CC. Sky Weavers go after any troops not in transports, easily do a turn 1 charge if needed to harassing them with all the shooting. Second turn all the charges. Starweavers charge the targets first so they take the brunt of the overwatch. Biggest thing to watch for psykers and try to kill them ASAP or have vehicles be the closest model as mortal wounds crushes the army. (And shadowseers help stop it)

So I am curious how survivable the reapers are. For 360 pts they area juicy target and kinda easy to kill. How do they compare to two ravagers which are 50pts less but more survivable?. The reapers are better vs infantry and flyers but the ravagers are better against vehicles and monstrous creatures.

2+ save in cover, which they always will be in cause of terrain. I moved some points around. Grabbed a Farseer. They will sit near dark reapers. They can give them reroll all hits and give them luck, so 5+ Feel no pain. That with a 2+ armor should make it very hard to get rid of them. Think my last list was invalid.over 2k anyways, as Battlescribe is having issues giving me correct points for more then 3 dark reapers. So to this one, I lost 2 Reapers, 2 Bikes, 1 Troop Master. Gained a Farseer. Not sold on Solitaire yet. Can easily get rid of him for 2 more dark reapers, which I honestly think is better. Also could fit in more fusion pistols.

7CP - 1994PTS

Battalion Detachment

HQ:
Shadowseer
ShadowSeer
Farseer Luck Guide

Troop:
5 Player - 5 Embrace 3 Fusion
5 Player - 5 Embrace 3 Fusion
5 Player - 5 Embrace 3 Fusion

Elite:
Solitiare

Fast Attack:
4 Skyweavers - 4 Zephyrglaive

Heavy:
7 Dark Reapers 1 Exarch - 8 Reaper Launcher

Dedicated Transports
4 Starweaver Transport

Sup Command Detachment
3 Troop Master - 3 Embrace 3 Fusion

Ravagers not rangers.

Do not underestimate the Solitaire. He can do work that no other unit can do, it isn't an easy targetable unit like Reapers are and he can hit targets that they cannot fire on (characters? Hidden units?).

I wouldn't field DR with Harlequins neither, both because of personal taste (i play 100% Harlequins) and for army balance reasons. They are slow and on foot where the rest of the army is fast and mounted on vehicles. Maybe a squad of 4-5, but they're good against things that Harlequins already manage well, what we're lacking is anti-horde weapons. Reapers don't help in that sense (and I field 2x5 of them in Ynnari, so I'm not underestimating them).

Wyldcarde wrote:Ravagers not rangers.

That's what I get for posting so early. thanks, fixed my post. Neeevermind ha.

Bloodshade wrote:Do not underestimate the Solitaire. He can do work that no other unit can do, it isn't an easy targetable unit like Reapers are and he can hit targets that they cannot fire on (characters? Hidden units?).

I wouldn't field DR with Harlequins neither, both because of personal taste (i play 100% Harlequins) and for army balance reasons. They are slow and on foot where the rest of the army is fast and mounted on vehicles. Maybe a squad of 4-5, but they're good against things that Harlequins already manage well, what we're lacking is anti-horde weapons. Reapers don't help in that sense (and I field 2x5 of them in Ynnari, so I'm not underestimating them).

Hows he going to do the work that a troop cant do though? Not saying hes bad, just he isn't as killy as id have hoped. Im sure he could rip though a tac squad or the like, but on other characters he doesent do much as they are more survivable.

That's the point of taking them though in Harley army. They can sit at the table edge and be able to shoot just about everything. They shoot the things that could pop our transports before they get to where they need to be. They never need to move so I don't think that's an issue.

Unless super close, Harley has a huge issues with armor. Fusion helps but you need a lot to get there and light it up, and a lot of shots. I dunno what armies you fight, but hordes isn't much of a problem since the amount of attacks the squad gets. Plus we have a lot of mid to low STR shooting to thin them out first. Reaper also help out switching to 2 shot mode.

str00dles1 wrote:
Hows he going to do the work that a troop cant do though? Not saying hes bad, just he isn't as killy as id have hoped. Im sure he could rip though a tac squad or the like, but on other characters he doesent do much as they are more survivable.

It's not the tough kill that the Solitaire allows you to do, but the strategic one, due to him being such a small fast dude that ignores any intervening thing on the board. You can aim with him to kill the (usually) fragile, bonus-giver character that you could NEVER touch otherwise.
Other that being good on his own, dunno if you expected him to be like Hulk or something, but in my universe 8 (10 once in a game) Attacks hitting on 2+ with either caress or kiss are worth considering and having in the list.

str00dles1 wrote:
That's the point of taking them though in Harley army. They can sit at the table edge and be able to shoot just about everything. They shoot the things that could pop our transports before they get to where they need to be. They never need to move so I don't think that's an issue.

Giving your enemy a static, obvious threat where the rest of the army is lightning fast, easy to hide and reposition is the point of taking them?
Reapers are good, probably the only busted eldar unit, but having them flashing at the table edge waiting for the enemy to target them is not my vision of how harlequins should work.
You're praying the enemy to feed on them without the protection they get instead with Eldar or Ynnari armies.

str00dles1 wrote:
Unless super close, Harley has a huge issues with armor. Fusion helps but you need a lot to get there and light it up, and a lot of shots. I dunno what armies you fight, but hordes isn't much of a problem since the amount of attacks the squad gets. Plus we have a lot of mid to low STR shooting to thin them out first. Reaper also help out switching to 2 shot mode.

Go tell that to ork mobs. Or some IG infantry. They take your hits, without crumbling, kill some in return, then disengage and blast you with other units (or kill you outright if orks, you probably don't know how many attacks have each).
Harlequins have zero chances to win against that type of troop, the horde one. I have 60+ S6 hits between skyweavers, starweavers and voidweavers, I have kept the 3 void in list just for the D6 "AI" shots, but I still have to go even close to get the Ork list I'm facing the most, not the mention AM's 100 conscripts lists and similar, which are currently the most powerful in the meta.
I'm glad you normally face elite armies and have a good time fighting those due to Harley's strengths. But the strongest lists are currently those spamming hordes, it's wise to tech against them.

One reason I was thinking ravagers over dark reapers is because with everything in starweavers the reapers are a little exposed to anti infantry shooting that normally wouldn't bother you. The reapers do work with Yvraine (stronger than a farseer for sure). Wish the reapers had a open top transport. Maybe a wave serpeant to keep them safe and redeploy them.

 Bloodshade wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Hows he going to do the work that a troop cant do though? Not saying hes bad, just he isn't as killy as id have hoped. Im sure he could rip though a tac squad or the like, but on other characters he doesent do much as they are more survivable.

It's not the tough kill that the Solitaire allows you to do, but the strategic one, due to him being such a small fast dude that ignores any intervening thing on the board. You can aim with him to kill the (usually) fragile, bonus-giver character that you could NEVER touch otherwise.
Other that being good on his own, dunno if you expected him to be like Hulk or something, but in my universe 8 (10 once in a game) Attacks hitting on 2+ with either caress or kiss are worth considering and having in the list.

str00dles1 wrote:
That's the point of taking them though in Harley army. They can sit at the table edge and be able to shoot just about everything. They shoot the things that could pop our transports before they get to where they need to be. They never need to move so I don't think that's an issue.

Giving your enemy a static, obvious threat where the rest of the army is lightning fast, easy to hide and reposition is the point of taking them?
Reapers are good, probably the only busted eldar unit, but having them flashing at the table edge waiting for the enemy to target them is not my vision of how harlequins should work.
You're praying the enemy to feed on them without the protection they get instead with Eldar or Ynnari armies.

str00dles1 wrote:
Unless super close, Harley has a huge issues with armor. Fusion helps but you need a lot to get there and light it up, and a lot of shots. I dunno what armies you fight, but hordes isn't much of a problem since the amount of attacks the squad gets. Plus we have a lot of mid to low STR shooting to thin them out first. Reaper also help out switching to 2 shot mode.

Go tell that to ork mobs. Or some IG infantry. They take your hits, without crumbling, kill some in return, then disengage and blast you with other units (or kill you outright if orks, you probably don't know how many attacks have each).
Harlequins have zero chances to win against that type of troop, the horde one. I have 60+ S6 hits between skyweavers, starweavers and voidweavers, I have kept the 3 void in list just for the D6 "AI" shots, but I still have to go even close to get the Ork list I'm facing the most, not the mention AM's 100 conscripts lists and similar, which are currently the most powerful in the meta.
I'm glad you normally face elite armies and have a good time fighting those due to Harley's strengths. But the strongest lists are currently those spamming hordes, it's wise to tech against them.

Yea they are static, but that's the idea. they have the farseer, so they get a 5+ FNP and 2+ armor so they are pretty safe. If the enemy wants to attack them, then that's fine. Isnt the army all about misdirection/phantasims/illusions Please attack my well defended guys as all my crazy clowns run up the board free and clean.

End of the day though, its a different play style.

Only just had a chance to go over all the 8th stuff...

One clear benefit I see is that, with Troupe Masters as HQ, it's really easy to fit in the extra Detachments for the +1 CP.

Is it me or are Death Jesters not that great anymore? Choosing one model to flee first is no where near as good as making a whole unit flee off the side of the board... If so, that's a great shame because, as I mentioned, 2 DJs and a Solitaire (who seems excellent) would be great in the Elites Detachment.

I know Harlies don't have much choice, but does anyone have any units they recommend as must-haves? What about support units from Eldar/Dark Eldar? I've seen Hemlocks mentioned...

The must-haves seem to be running your Troupes in Starweavers. Starweavers are definitely a must-have.

 The Shadow wrote:
Only just had a chance to go over all the 8th stuff...

One clear benefit I see is that, with Troupe Masters as HQ, it's really easy to fit in the extra Detachments for the +1 CP.

Is it me or are Death Jesters not that great anymore? Choosing one model to flee first is no where near as good as making a whole unit flee off the side of the board... If so, that's a great shame because, as I mentioned, 2 DJs and a Solitaire (who seems excellent) would be great in the Elites Detachment.

I know Harlies don't have much choice, but does anyone have any units they recommend as must-haves? What about support units from Eldar/Dark Eldar? I've seen Hemlocks mentioned...

I recommend adding DL Ravagers and/or Razorwing Jetfighters for long-range fire support to a bunch of Troupes in Starweavers.

Solitaire has Masque now, so can board transports with squads.

PUFNSTUF wrote:
Solitaire has Masque now, so can board transports with squads.

Can also benefit from Troupe Master and Shadowseer auras. Neat.

This is a big buff for the Solitaire. Riding in a Transport is great (but unneeded at the end of the day). However, it lets us place 1 less unit-drop during deployment, which is awesome.

Being able to ride in a starweaver is a pretty nice buff. Not only can it add 3" to the solitaire first turn movement but it actually addas more because you are less likely to have to place him somewhere behind your other units. We have a pretty low unit could t to begin with and this does help us go first. Since he is riding with the starweaver he can act as an overwatch sponge.

Dark Reapers have one really really important ability. They always hit on a 3+ no matter what. So you can start them hiding behind something and then move them out to shoot. I put them with a Warlock and Yvraine. Soul Bursting them allows for a ton of shots at 48"

The exarch with a Tempest Launcher looks really good 2d6 shot, I just keep rolling 5 shots for it... stupid dice.

So the Solitaire receives a buff but the Death Jester is just perfectly fine as it is? Hopefully he'll receive some form of buff in the future.

I'm looking for ideas for making foot Harlequins survivable/viable. I don't think starweavers should be mandatory and with the range of options from the Shadowseer (more difficult to wound, more difficult to hit, much faster) as well as a good amount of LOS blocking cover it may be possible.

The benefits of foot Harlequins would mean that we can take care of hordes a bit better, as a squad of 12 Harlies with Embraces can sure blend guardsmen and Orks - 25.3 wounds on average on Guardsmen and 19.1 on Orks (that's shuri pistols included)

The reasons we don't take those squads is because they are squishy, can't be put into a starweaver and are somewhat expensive.

Any ideas on keeping them alive and getting them there? Considered distractions with other units but distractions are temporary, as soon as you play the army once you know what to hit first.

The Solitaire got a word change that clearly was missing in the index. I wouldn't necessarily consider it a buff.

Death Jester, as bad as he is, is the only unit who can shoot a Character instead of the nearest unit. No other Harlequin unit has this. I would say that's a pretty good perk.

We just need more models in general for the Harlequin army.

teknoskan wrote:
The Solitaire got a word change that clearly was missing in the index. I wouldn't necessarily consider it a buff.

Death Jester, as bad as he is, is the only unit who can shoot a Character instead of the nearest unit. No other Harlequin unit has this. I would say that's a pretty good perk.

Actually I think the Solitaire made sense without the keyword. In the codex it says they don't belong to a masque but travel from one to another - makes perfect sense for them not to have the keyword and pushes their loner theme. So I don't think it was an oversight but a fully intentional change and the keyword added is a straight up buff, it let's him do more.


The death jester would for me benefit from either giving -1 ld to target or making target take a ld check even if they are fearless (using 7th terminology but you get what I mean).

The Shadow wrote:Only just had a chance to go over all the 8th stuff...

One clear benefit I see is that, with Troupe Masters as HQ, it's really easy to fit in the extra Detachments for the +1 CP.

Is it me or are Death Jesters not that great anymore? Choosing one model to flee first is no where near as good as making a whole unit flee off the side of the board... If so, that's a great shame because, as I mentioned, 2 DJs and a Solitaire (who seems excellent) would be great in the Elites Detachment.

I know Harlies don't have much choice, but does anyone have any units they recommend as must-haves? What about support units from Eldar/Dark Eldar? I've seen Hemlocks mentioned...

Well the army only really builds one way with very minor variations. As for non Harley, id always take Dark Reapers personally. In a 2k list, I also got a farseer. she sits by them, gives them rerolls to hit and 5+ feel no pain roll. Very good backfield support to take some heat off your star weavers full of murder clowns

Aren73 wrote:So the Solitaire receives a buff but the Death Jester is just perfectly fine as it is? Hopefully he'll receive some form of buff in the future.

I'm looking for ideas for making foot Harlequins survivable/viable. I don't think starweavers should be mandatory and with the range of options from the Shadowseer (more difficult to wound, more difficult to hit, much faster) as well as a good amount of LOS blocking cover it may be possible.

The benefits of foot Harlequins would mean that we can take care of hordes a bit better, as a squad of 12 Harlies with Embraces can sure blend guardsmen and Orks - 25.3 wounds on average on Guardsmen and 19.1 on Orks (that's shuri pistols included)

The reasons we don't take those squads is because they are squishy, can't be put into a starweaver and are somewhat expensive.

Any ideas on keeping them alive and getting them there? Considered distractions with other units but distractions are temporary, as soon as you play the army once you know what to hit first.

Don't think you can really. that's just now how they play, or the elder in general. Like the normal elf stereotype, they are fast and deadly, but very fragile. As is, not a low of options.

Also the talk on the Deathjester, hes never worth taking. Even if he can target characters, if you badly want that, take 5 Rangers. They can at least do the same, with farther guns and cause mortal wounds with more shots and only 25 more points. The faction over all has enough to play, but it really needs a solid 6 more units to really give it options. Just like the Talons of the Emp faction. You have 3 nuns with guns, 2 custodies, contemptor, land raider, and rhino and that's it. We are in the same boat.

I think people overlooks that a Deathjester can shoot from a Starweaver with no penalty, functionally giving you a triple Shuriken cannon gunship, with one of them hitting on 2's and giving extra shenanigans.
Not that bad, right?

str00dles1 wrote:

The Shadow wrote:Only just had a chance to go over all the 8th stuff...

One clear benefit I see is that, with Troupe Masters as HQ, it's really easy to fit in the extra Detachments for the +1 CP.

Is it me or are Death Jesters not that great anymore? Choosing one model to flee first is no where near as good as making a whole unit flee off the side of the board... If so, that's a great shame because, as I mentioned, 2 DJs and a Solitaire (who seems excellent) would be great in the Elites Detachment.

I know Harlies don't have much choice, but does anyone have any units they recommend as must-haves? What about support units from Eldar/Dark Eldar? I've seen Hemlocks mentioned...

Well the army only really builds one way with very minor variations. As for non Harley, id always take Dark Reapers personally. In a 2k list, I also got a farseer. she sits by them, gives them rerolls to hit and 5+ feel no pain roll. Very good backfield support to take some heat off your star weavers full of murder clowns

Aren73 wrote:So the Solitaire receives a buff but the Death Jester is just perfectly fine as it is? Hopefully he'll receive some form of buff in the future.

I'm looking for ideas for making foot Harlequins survivable/viable. I don't think starweavers should be mandatory and with the range of options from the Shadowseer (more difficult to wound, more difficult to hit, much faster) as well as a good amount of LOS blocking cover it may be possible.

The benefits of foot Harlequins would mean that we can take care of hordes a bit better, as a squad of 12 Harlies with Embraces can sure blend guardsmen and Orks - 25.3 wounds on average on Guardsmen and 19.1 on Orks (that's shuri pistols included)

The reasons we don't take those squads is because they are squishy, can't be put into a starweaver and are somewhat expensive.

Any ideas on keeping them alive and getting them there? Considered distractions with other units but distractions are temporary, as soon as you play the army once you know what to hit first.

Don't think you can really. that's just now how they play, or the elder in general. Like the normal elf stereotype, they are fast and deadly, but very fragile. As is, not a low of options.

Also the talk on the Deathjester, hes never worth taking. Even if he can target characters, if you badly want that, take 5 Rangers. They can at least do the same, with farther guns and cause mortal wounds with more shots and only 25 more points. The faction over all has enough to play, but it really needs a solid 6 more units to really give it options. Just like the Talons of the Emp faction. You have 3 nuns with guns, 2 custodies, contemptor, land raider, and rhino and that's it. We are in the same boat.

Personally I think the whole point of the shadowseer is to make troupes worth taking on foot. It can't really keep up with starweavers, unless inside one of course. It has two abilities aimed at keeping things alive and another one at making them go faster. I think with the right support troupes on foot can be fast enough to get into combat and maybe not be durable but survive until they get there.

Question is of course to find the right things to support them.

 DanielFM wrote:
I think people overlooks that a Deathjester can shoot from a Starweaver with no penalty, functionally giving you a triple Shuriken cannon gunship, with one of them hitting on 2's and giving extra shenanigans.
Not that bad, right?

I ran him this way before. Actually two of them in two separate starweavers. It worked out ok... but 150 points was a lot to sink into that. Especially when I could take another starweaver, and still have points left over.

Aren73 wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

The Shadow wrote:Only just had a chance to go over all the 8th stuff...

One clear benefit I see is that, with Troupe Masters as HQ, it's really easy to fit in the extra Detachments for the +1 CP.

Is it me or are Death Jesters not that great anymore? Choosing one model to flee first is no where near as good as making a whole unit flee off the side of the board... If so, that's a great shame because, as I mentioned, 2 DJs and a Solitaire (who seems excellent) would be great in the Elites Detachment.

I know Harlies don't have much choice, but does anyone have any units they recommend as must-haves? What about support units from Eldar/Dark Eldar? I've seen Hemlocks mentioned...

Well the army only really builds one way with very minor variations. As for non Harley, id always take Dark Reapers personally. In a 2k list, I also got a farseer. she sits by them, gives them rerolls to hit and 5+ feel no pain roll. Very good backfield support to take some heat off your star weavers full of murder clowns

Aren73 wrote:So the Solitaire receives a buff but the Death Jester is just perfectly fine as it is? Hopefully he'll receive some form of buff in the future.

I'm looking for ideas for making foot Harlequins survivable/viable. I don't think starweavers should be mandatory and with the range of options from the Shadowseer (more difficult to wound, more difficult to hit, much faster) as well as a good amount of LOS blocking cover it may be possible.

The benefits of foot Harlequins would mean that we can take care of hordes a bit better, as a squad of 12 Harlies with Embraces can sure blend guardsmen and Orks - 25.3 wounds on average on Guardsmen and 19.1 on Orks (that's shuri pistols included)

The reasons we don't take those squads is because they are squishy, can't be put into a starweaver and are somewhat expensive.

Any ideas on keeping them alive and getting them there? Considered distractions with other units but distractions are temporary, as soon as you play the army once you know what to hit first.

Don't think you can really. that's just now how they play, or the elder in general. Like the normal elf stereotype, they are fast and deadly, but very fragile. As is, not a low of options.

Also the talk on the Deathjester, hes never worth taking. Even if he can target characters, if you badly want that, take 5 Rangers. They can at least do the same, with farther guns and cause mortal wounds with more shots and only 25 more points. The faction over all has enough to play, but it really needs a solid 6 more units to really give it options. Just like the Talons of the Emp faction. You have 3 nuns with guns, 2 custodies, contemptor, land raider, and rhino and that's it. We are in the same boat.

Personally I think the whole point of the shadowseer is to make troupes worth taking on foot. It can't really keep up with starweavers, unless inside one of course. It has two abilities aimed at keeping things alive and another one at making them go faster. I think with the right support troupes on foot can be fast enough to get into combat and maybe not be durable but survive until they get there.

Question is of course to find the right things to support them.

Is worth it when she jumps out of a transport and effects your troop master and like 2 units of troupes yea. I mean feel free to try them on foot, but I think you will end up disappointed. They can get chewed up simple bolter fire since them being in cover has 0 benefit or a vindicare can snipe the shadowseer and ruin your -1 to wound. They are a precision strike force, so you need to pick your battles. The transports lets you get where ever you really need turn 1, then turn 2 assault to where you need. Marching up the board will get you less guys there and they will control the battlefield on where you charge

@str00dles1 - fair enough. I'll try to make it work but I see your point. I guess I wish there was more than one list that we could field and more than one way to play our army.

I always liked the fluff of Harlequins running up the battlefield at impossible speeds, with death jesters providing supporting fire in such a way that the troupes could get nice and personal.

Whereas with that we play like any other eldar - load up the close combat guys in a skimmer, zoom up there and jump out and slaughter. It almost feels like I'm playing Dark Eldar and not Harleuins, but there we go. I suppose all Eldar are essentially the same with minor taste differences.

On another note, the Solitaire close to a troupe Master now does 4.6 wounds average to a captain in gravis armour/ Necron Overlord - enough that with only a little fire support they should die in a single turn. So yay - aside from the most heavily armoured characters the solitaire can reliably drop them. But it needs supporting.

A consensus here seems to be that ''Rising crescendo'' is the better mark than ''Ynnari''. I'll integrate one detachment with 2 HQs and 3 Troupe units in Starweavers into my Craftworld/Ynnari army. Any experience there?

 wuestenfux wrote:
A consensus here seems to be that ''Rising crescendo'' is the better mark than ''Ynnari''. I'll integrate one detachment with 2 HQs and 3 Troupe units in Starweavers into my Craftworld/Ynnari army. Any experience there?

I have a lot of experience being annihilated by Quinns due to Rising crescendo - does that count?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
A consensus here seems to be that ''Rising crescendo'' is the better mark than ''Ynnari''. I'll integrate one detachment with 2 HQs and 3 Troupe units in Starweavers into my Craftworld/Ynnari army. Any experience there?

I have a lot of experience being annihilated by Quinns due to Rising crescendo - does that count?

I'm not looking for a full flushed ''Rising crescendo'' army but only for a detachment.