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I think that plasma kink may be intentional. There are already lots of threads stating that plasma is always the best option. With that higher overheat chance in specific situations, that may not be so true anymore.

Unless you're firing on a unit with T7 there's really not a lot of need to supercharge the plasma gun anyway. I think if it's a choice to do it then the consequences should be worse than when it wasn't optional. For me, it's not worth it.

I supercharge when firing on vehicles and multi wound units, when I need the extra damage more so than the extra strength.

 Geifer wrote:
As you just noted, they're both X. Not X, Y and Z. Just X.

All within the same framework, keywords, and the same subsection of the framework, faction keywords.

In purely logical terms, they are the same thing.

Edit: To expand on this:

All Imperial Factions share the Imperium keyword. Logically, the ability to share a faction keyword is allowed even if there are other, different keywords.

The respective keywords are discrete. <Regiment> does not refer in any way to Astra Militarum. Keywords are ordered, but discrete.

The rule guiding the insertion of faction keywords is not regulated. Literally the same keyword can be chosen,

Logically, there is nothing to stop Marines and Guard from having the same keyword. Logically, if you were to apply the same keyword, there would be no way around treating Guard and Marine units differently based on this keyword.

If you want a format which disallows this, you would need something that refers to the respective faction, say:

Regiment: Fists of Bull0
Chapter: Fists of Bull0
Maniple: Fists of Bull0

That's X,Y and Z as used above.

Fists of Bull0 by itself is always X.

Absolutely not.

I have a pet duck, I name him Hawk McTalons. He is still a duck.

A Regiment is not a chapter is not a knight household is not a craft world is not a chaos warband.

That argument has been done and mods have told everyone to move on. No need to dig it back up.

Is it worth renaming this thread title to say "Designers Notes" so that when the actual FAQ comes out it's clearer?

 xttz wrote:
Is it worth renaming this thread title to say "Designers Notes" so that when the actual FAQ comes out it's clearer?

That would just give credence to the people who say we shouldn't actually use the rulings given here during gameplay because for some unfathomable reason only documents specifically titled "FAQ" are official official.

That's a fair point xttz, but I think since there isn't any other FAQ right now it shouldn't be confusing atm. And as someone else noted, their normal "FAQ" documents are actually misnamed as they're more errata than anything else so this one is named appropriately for once!

Did we ever get any war scrolls for 8th, if so where?

Went to the GW website to see the new FAQ. They don't have FAQs no more. They are called Rules Errata now. So therefore I guess this can be called FAQ since GW don't call them FAQs no more.

Just guess I have to teach myself now not to go by FAQs now. Problem solved.

 loki old fart wrote:
Did we ever get any war scrolls for 8th, if so where?

GW seems to avoid the free rules model they use for Age of Sigmar with 40k. The 12 pages of core rules are free, but any unit rules are found in the indices.

There has been rumors of a 40k army builder from GW some time in the future. How that will look, if it's free or paid content, and whether it will contain unit rules or just calculates cost is currently unknown.

Supposedly there will also be data sheets in new unit boxes. No way to tell yet if they are complete or cut down.

 Geifer wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
Did we ever get any war scrolls for 8th, if so where?

GW seems to avoid the free rules model they use for Age of Sigmar with 40k. The 12 pages of core rules are free, but any unit rules are found in the indices.

There has been rumors of a 40k army builder from GW some time in the future. How that will look, if it's free or paid content, and whether it will contain unit rules or just calculates cost is currently unknown.

Supposedly there will also be data sheets in new unit boxes. No way to tell yet if they are complete or cut down.

Yeah I thought as much. So much for the new leaf.

No free unit rules? Bite me. There goes much of my goodwill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Still, let's see what battlescribe can do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, an Index only costs $25 rather than the usual stupid $80 hard cover? That is a nice change. Though much cheaper in pounds. : (

I suspect that free dataslates will be available later on, just not at release so they can cash in on people buying the indexes. Its a lot of revenue they would lose out on if people could get things easily from the onset. They also put a lot more work into the 40k relaunch dataslates than they did AoS launch warscrolls (like actual playtesting, for example).

Yeah, "cash in" is the kind of impression I get from this release. Not that it's a bad move for their bottom line. 40k is popular enough and let's be honest, the price of the indices is fair. Even the rulebook is a better priced than the 6th ed and 7th ed books. But GW follows a pretty transparent* strategy if you look at the starter sets. The big, expensive one comes first with not a hint of the smaller ones to get sales out of people who would buy a smaller one but are OK with getting the big one if that's the only starter set, as well as some people on the fence. Then they try to get money out of everyone else by releasing cheaper starter sets.

I don't know we'll ever see free rules as in Age of Sigmar, because I think GW is very aware 40k is popular enough that they don't need free rules as a marketing tool. That may actually be the case. I don't know. I can only speak for myself. Because of how they went about the 8th ed release, they got 20€ out of me for the Marine index and that's it. With free data sheets they could have sold me a Scions start collecting box (for Inquisition) and a Rhino or Razorback kit (for my Sisters of SIlence). However, 8th ed seems to be pretty well received, so I'm going to assume for now I'm part of a minority. And if that's the case, as in GW is happy with their sales, they have no reason to release free rules for 40k.



* As in tinfoil hat transparent, not informing customers of future releases transparent.

As has been mentioned loads, using phrases like "cash in" is largely redundant when we're talking about a company that exists to sell stuff. They exist to cash in on their own launches. New editions make money selling rules back to people who already owned rules. It's a cycle they've done and done again.

The main money issue is really that people built it up in their heads unit rules would be free, despite GW saying from the off that unit rules would cost. It's smart on their part, as it's a larger existing player base and means at least £15 from every player out there to keep up, even if they opt to use only the Battle Primer rules. HUGE cash injection.

The only thing that smarts for me is the dumb errors in my FW Index.

While I largely agree, it's not quite as simple as that now that GW is doing marketing again. They've been working hard at creating the image of "New GW" you can trust and with Age of Sigmar they have trained people to expect free basic rules. They have stated from the beginning that the Indices will hold the unit rules, but have to my knowledge never explicitly ruled out free rules.

It's not just people building it up in their heads. That's part of it, but GW did nothing to dispel the notion that they may release free rules and are only trying to sell people books that are also released. GW is still very tight-lipped and very selective about near future releases.

 Geifer wrote:
While I largely agree, it's not quite as simple as that now that GW is doing marketing again. They've been working hard at creating the image of "New GW" you can trust and with Age of Sigmar they have trained people to expect free basic rules. They have stated from the beginning that the Indices will hold the unit rules, but have to my knowledge never explicitly ruled out free rules.

It's not just people building it up in their heads. That's part of it, but GW did nothing to dispel the notion that they may release free rules and are only trying to sell people books that are also released. GW is still very tight-lipped and very selective about near future releases.

Not ruling out free unit rules and not even hinting they'll come aren't the same. :-) They said unit rules would cost. They said the base rules would be free and 12 pages. Anything beyond that is what people have brought to the metaphorical table themselves.

Given how easy it is to find those rules free online, and with them being included in future boxes & reboxes, I would be surprised if GW didnt make a direct resource for free rules since realistically they will already be free for a small amount of extra effort.

GW will not give out something for free they can charge for. The only reason we have any sort of free download rules is to give JUST enough to get interest, and force someone to pay for the book proper. That will never change. Nor will it change that they will try their best to get you to buy something you already have simply by adding either a single weapon option only available on the new sprue, or by invalidating a book forcing you to buy a new one. The current indices will sell really well, and every single person who has one will have to turn around and buy a new book within months from now. Mark my words. And as far as I can see, they've simply shifted the problem areas rather then eliminate them entirely.

Really glad they released it so quickly!! Clarifies a lot of stuff.

Personally I like how they specifically mentioned the plasma interaction. For the last two weeks it has always been "OMG plasma overcharge spam is totally broken" now we have something that can help limit its power and it becomes "this is BS, plasma is not as broken as it was before"

Personally I like how they made it so things like re-rolls are less valuable in certain situations and the much more rare modifiers are more powerful.