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 Khornate25 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I have to ask : could this lead to a battlescribe data ? I would really love it if it was on battlescribe one day,.

It is! Or at least the first draft is.

The main forums for the project are on Heresy 30k, and there’s a thread developing the BS files here:
http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/topic/10966-8th-ed-legiones-astartes-battlescribe-roster/

Mastery of the Blade: When fighting an enemy in the Fight phase with the same Weapon Skill, and equipped with a sword, a model
with this Trait may add 1 to their Hit rolls.
• Covenant of Death: If at the end of the game, the opposing force has an equal or greater number of units remaining than an army that
includes a Dark Angels detachment, the opposing force gains +1 VP.

Mastery of the Blade needs changing to
"Any Power sword, Terranic greatsword, Calabanite warblade, combat Knife, Relic Blade (that is a Sword) and Chainsword"

Covenant of Death Needs removing as it was a balance factor added to remedy the DA greater use of powerful weapons, which in 8th they no longer have.

Dark Angels models have access to the following wargear:
1: Any model with access to the Melee Weapons list may choose a Calibanite warblade as their choice from the list.
2: Any Character with access to the Melee Weapons list may choose a Terranic greatsword as their choice from the list.
3: Any Astartes unit with access to Plasma guns may replace these with Plasma repeaters. If this is chosen, all such weapons in the unit must
be replaced.
4: Any Astartes unit with access to Grenade launchers may take Stasis grenades as an additional choice when firing the weapon. If this is
chosen, all such weapons in the unit must be upgraded.
5: Any Astartes unit with access to Missile launchers may take Stasis missiles as an additional choice when firing the weapon. If this is
chosen, all such weapons in the unit must be upgraded.
6: Any Astartes or Dreadnought unit with access to Heavy bolters or Twin heavy bolters may take Molecular acid shells as an additional
choice when firing the weapon. If this is chosen, all such weapons in the unit must be upgraded.

1: Change to "may replace any power sword with a Calabanite warblade for no extra cost"
2: Change to "any Character may replace their close combat weapon with a Terranic greatsword"
3: yep
4: Add "for no extra cost"
5: Add "for no extra cost"
6: Change to "Any unit with the legiones astartes "Dark Angels" keyword and armed with a Heavy bolter or Twin heavy bolter, may upgrade to Molecular acid round for 5pts per model for "infantry" and 15pts per model for "vehicles" with the "dreadnought" keyword.


Calabanite Warblade: Str +1 Ap-3 Dam1: 4pts
Terranic Greatsword: Str +2 Ap -3 Dam D6: 20pts, the D6 wounds is to replicate the Instant death, Ap -3 is because its a power sword variant.

Stasis Grenade launcher and Stasis missile launcher gives access to the Stasis grenade Strategem.

Molecular acid round: Str- AP D6 heavy 3 Dam 1.
This weapon wounds on a 2+, unless it is targeting Vehicles, in which case it wounds on a 6+.
Twin Heavy Bolter with molecular acid round, heavy 6 otherwise the same.
Changed the Ap to D6 to replicate the 50/50 chance that it ignores all armour in the game.

Plasma Reapeater: Str6 AP -2 Rapid fire 1 Dam 1 range 18"
Overcharge: Str7 AP-3 Rapid fire 2 Dam 2 Range 18" "gets Hot"
Slightly increased the range and reliability of the repeater as for the cost, it sucks, removed assault as it was a salvo weapon before not an assault weapon, now for 23pts per model you get a more reliable weapon.

Warlord Traits: I will be doing one for each of the wings.

Ironwing:
Add The Ironwing keyword to all units in the army.
Interlocking fire: Change to "when each vehicle that is bought as part of a sqaudron fires at the same target, they have +1 to hit"
Exterminators: When a friendly "Dark Angels" unit targets an enemy Unit within 12", it add +1 to wound as long as it is using Rapid Fire, Assault or pistol weapons, including grenades, this has no effect on weapons with a fixed to wound roll (such as poison weapons)
Goliaths of War: When a Dark Angels "Dreadnought" with the "Ironwing" keyword targets an enemy vehicle it can Re rolls any failed wound rolls of 1

Re rolling wounds is simply too powerful, I have more to come.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ravenwing Protocals:

Knight commander:Add: May re roll to wound against models with a Toughness value of 5 or more and that do no have the "vehicle" keyword.
Search and Destroy: Bikes and models with the Fly keyword may fall back and shoot, In addition they gain the flanking Manoeuvres ability when they move off the of any table edge.

Flanking Manoeuvres: During deployment, you can set up this unit moving around the flanks instead of placing it on the
battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases the unit can join the battle - set it up so that all models in the unit are within 7” of a battlefield edge of your choice and more than 9” from enemy models, this rule may be used by any Bike or models with the fly rule that moved off the table in the previous turn.

Hunt them Down: Models in this army with the Bike or Fly keyword may move and fire heavy weapons without the -1 to hit penalty.

Scour the Land: Characters in this detachment can take rad grenades.

UPDATE - New LA and Legions files ready!

All Documents for this project can now be found in an open Google Drive at : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1c3k0CgT0mK7usziANPHjYKL30doamz3R


Legiones Astartes Army List v 2.20 Change Log


Fixed a typo for Tartaros Terminator Armoured characters not specifying Tartaros Armour.

Centurions and Praetors in Terminator Armour no longer have access to the Protective Wargear list.

Fixed some odd power values for the Command Squad.

Added the option for Tactical Support Squads to take additional chainswords.

Librarians now generate their powers explicitly from the Librarius discipline.

Added Heavy chainsword to the Melee weapons list.

Sergeants can no longer take specialist ranged weapons in Terminator Squads.

Sergeants in Legion Veteran Tactical Squads can no longer take paired Lightning claws or specialist weapons.

Legion Veteran Squad Sergeants can now take melta bombs.

Added the MC Boltgun to the ranged weapons list as a Praetor only option and adjusted the datasheet to match.

Split the bolt pistol and chainsword upgrade options for Centurions and Praetors to remove ambiguity on upgrades.

Split the bolt pistol and chainsword upgrade options for Centurions and Praetors to remove ambiguity on upgrades.

Combi-bolter has been added to the Combi-weapons list.

Added the grenade harness option to the Legion Praetor in Terminator Armour.

Chaplains now get a power weapon (crozius) in addition to their other wargear, rather than replacing their chainsword.

Added the combat shield option to Command Squads that are not in Terminator Armour.

Added the Jump Pack Assault ability to Praetors, Centurions Command Squads and Apothecarions if they take jump packs.

Changed the Breacher Squad datasheet to fix the Legion Sergeant’s wargear options.

Fixed a typo in the Techmarine datasheet referring to the C-Beam cannon.

Added the Light c-beam cannon to the points table.

Added the Cortex Controller option to the Forge Lord Consul.

Fixed the wording of the Librarian Consul so they can now get Force Weapons even when in Terminator Armour.

Reworded the Destroyer Sergeant’s melta bomb option to not include reference to older version of the army list.

Updated the Destroyer Squad to have a 12” move and the Jump Pack Assault ability when equipped with Jump Packs.

Added option for one Attack Bike in the squadron to take melta bombs to fit better with previous builds.

Added the Talon ability onto the Leviathan Dreadnought datasheet.

Changed the Dreadnought Drop Pod from BS 3+ to BS -.

Added the option for Damocles Command Rhino to take a Pintle weapon.

Dropped Techmarine to PL3 to differentiate from Forge Lord

Added option for Sky Hunter and Sky Slayer sergeants to take Pistols.

Edited Apothecary text to give a Jump Pack Apothecary the Jump Pack Assault ability.

Added the ‘Field Commander’ rule to clarify that Master of Armour can only be taken in a detachment using Armoured Breakthrough.

Fixed error in Land Raider Battle Squadron listing & clarified equipment upgrades for Land Raider Proteus and Achilles. Reduced Proteus to PR19 to reflect the loss of the 40k ‘Heavy’ ability.

Changed Achilles-Alpha to PR20, in line with its points value.

Changed the Keywords for Sicaran variants to bring them in line with each other.

Changed the Astartes Battlecannon to cost 29 points, in line with the ususal Astartes/Militarum weapon cost difference.

Added ASTARTES keyword to Sky Slayers and DROP POD keyword to Kharybdis.

Edited wound bands and Leadership for Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor.

Edited Contemptor Cortus to only allow one C-Beam Cannon per talon.

Reduced Caestus base points to 170 to compensate for the cost of the 30k weapons options.

Added cameleoline to the Vigilator

Added Sicaran Punisher, Omega and Arcus from Index:IA and the FW website.

Chapter Approved 2017 points costs updates to Librarians, Terminators, Tarantulas, Artillery, Flyers and various weapons. I’ve currently left the LoW costs as they are pending discussion.

Clarified that Breacher Shields affect armour saves only.

Added the Field Control rule to limit Servo-Automata to one unit per Techmarine

Reduced the power rating cost of Legion Tactical Squads.

Reduced the Reaper Autocannon to 15 points, in line with C:CSM

Changed Breaching Charge to be a copy of AM Demolition Charge, bringing it in-line with how 8ed Grenades function.

Changed Plasma Blaster to only inflict one mortal wound per 1 rolled so we don’t kill Contemptors with it!

Added the Unstoppable Fury ability to all Legion Dreadnoughts that can take dual Melee weapons.

Clarified the rules for taking Dreadnought Drop Pods for single Dreadnoughts.

Reduced base cost of Cortus Dreadnoughts to 84.

Reduced the base cost of Recon squads by a point to reflect the limited use of their mandatory shroud bombs, and updated their Concealed Positions rule in line with SM Scouts.

Changed all basic marine choices to have cheaper additional marines (including Heavy Support squads).

Updated Legion Artillery power ratings, points values and the listing to reflect the latest whirlwind cost decrease and to include the relevant keywords.

Updated Fury of the Legion to be more restrictive in who can use it and only cost more for Tac Support.

Clarified and edited points costs for the different missile launcher types (rad-only launchers discounted)

Clarified which vehicles have access to Machine Spirit as an upgrade and which have it included.

Reduced the PL cost of Centurion Terminator armour to 2.

Gave Mortis and Contemptor-Mortis dreadnoughts the Helical Targeting Array ability to give them an actual purpose! Also updated their base points cost to reflect this.

Updated Xiphon to have the option for Ground-Tracking Auguries as per 7ed.

Altered Consul points costs in line with Darog’s suggestions.

Edited equipment options of the Primaris Lightning to allow it to be equipped in the same way as 7ed models. Modified the rules and points costs for Kraken penetrator missiles and sunfury missiles.

Augury Scanners are back! Feedback required on the rules. Bear in mind that the interceptor side of the rules is now covered by a Stratagem.


Legions v 2.20 Change Log


Added a first draft of the Blackshield rules! (Yay, Woo!)

Added clarifications to the various points tables relating to what the asterisk means.

III - Added rows to the points tables for Palatine Blade and Reaver Attack Squads with Jump Packs.

IV - Perturabo has his bombardment back, and his wrist cannon (and points) have been modified.

IV - Corrected Tyrant Terminators to include the Omniscope from 8ed, and reduced their points cost to make them competitive with Iron Havocs.

IV - Corrected Iron Havocs to have hardened armour.

IV - Modified the Hail of Fire stratagem to better reflect the previous incarnation.

IV - Changed the special ability of shrapnel bolts and the olympia bolt cannon (points cost changed).

VI - Fixed Hvarl Red-blade to have a 6” standard Tartaros move.

VI - Edited Healing Balms to only heal, rather than revive, models.

VI - Added points costs for Caster of Runes and Speaker of the Dead upgrades.

VI - Updated Leman Russ to grant use of the Howl of the Death Wolf stratagem.

VI - Given Leman Russ and Legion Vets in his army the Warriors Mettle rule and adjusted points costs to reflect this.

VI - Fixed a formatting issue where the Yimira stasis bomb’s profile was not visible.

VIII - Updated Night Raptors to include the Jump Pack Assault rule.

IX - Updated points cost for Inferno Pistol in line with Chapter Approved

X - Added the Gun Them Down! Rule to Iron Hands Immortals

XIII - Edited Gahlen Surlak to revive on a 3+ and his Augmented units to never hold objectives.

XIII - Updated World Eaters’ Unstoppable Wave in line with the suggestions in the thread.

XV - Updated all Thousand Sons psychic powers to published powers, in line with the suggestions in the thread.

XVI - Revised rules to represent their previous outflank capability - Reavers now have Flanking Manoeuvres, and a small points increase. Horus grants Flanking Manoeuvres and has a points increase. Black Reaving gives it’s fleet bonus to units using this ability.

XVI - Changed Death Dealer to function similar to the 7ed version. Removed the +1Ld bonus to balance this.

XVI - Fixed Tybalt Marr so his weapons are master-crafted.

XVII - Updated Word Bearers’ Charismatic Leadership to work better with multiple detachments.

XVII - Updated Gal Vorbak to have Rending Claws (as per Daemonettes) as a weapon option, but still along with chainswords (which can be swapped).

XVII - Updated the Blade Slaves IWND to 5+ and their Anakatis Blades to work more similarly to before.

XVII - Updated the Mhara Gal to have more wounds than a standard contemptor, and to have an analog to the Earth Recoils special rule. Removed Gets Hot from the Warpfire Plasma Cannon.

XVII - Updated various Word Bearers rules to clarify that Daemon allies must be Daemons!

XVII - Burning Lore now states that the power generated is from the Librarius discipline.

XVII - Fixed a typo regarding where Zardu Layak generates his powers from.

XVII - Added wargear restrictions from 7e to the Diabolist.

XVII - Added the Destroyer keyword to Ashen Circle to match with their fluff.

XVII - Fixed the Mhara Gal’s <Fealty> to read Traitor.

XVII - Added a points cost for the Axe rake to the Word Bearers points table.

XVII - Fixed a wording issue with Lorgar Transfigured that implied that he forgets Smite.

XVII - Fixed Hol Beloth’s <Fealty> to Traitor.

XVII - Removed Zardu Layak’s Boundless Rage ability as it was superfluous.

XVIII - Fixed Xiaphas Jurr to remove the Mantle of the Elder Drake

XIX - Changed the Raven Guard Legion Traits to be closer to the 7ed rules. Replaced their Stratagem as it was now superfluous.

XIX - Rewrote the Mor Deythan Fatal Strike rule to be closer to the 7ed rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
Dark Angels Stuff

So close! Literally just uploaded the new updates!

Thanks for this though, we'll go through them and get any changes into the next update!

hahaha sods law, I havent had a chance to knuckle down and properly as I have been away on Ex lol

Reposting from the other site...

 ArbitorIan wrote:


XVI - Fixed Tybalt Marr so his weapons are master-crafted.

YEESS!



Also looking good, liking the changes to the Raven Guard.



One thing I noticed, for the Black Shields Chymeriae, you bring up Initiative



"Tough: Add 1 to their Strength and Toughness characteristics and reduce their Initiative characteristic by 1. Models with this ability recude
their Advance and Charge moves by 1”.



Obviously that will need some sort of replacement.

Additionally, the Pariah Armor might need some looking at. Not sure what I'd do, but keeping it at the S6 makes it 5+ doesnt seem right for 8th. Maybe S6 and Up imposes a further -1 to the Armor Value?

New campaign kicking off next week for us, 18 blokes and 2 ladies testing this out, will post feebaback

Very interesting idea, as I'm keen in seeing 30k with 8e rules.

However, I'd like to point out some stuff regarding Thousand Sons:
- The link between Cult choice and psyker ease to cast (from 4+ to 3+ back in 7e) isn't anywhere. Maybe reducing the warp charge value of linked power by 1, down to 5 max? Or add 1 to the Psychic test (I think this is even fluffier)? And why remove the access to the base Psychic Powers table, when in 7e they had access to anything but Daemonology?

- Does 'Signs & Portents' stack with itself? I mean, if in the same Psychic Phase a psyker casts 2 powers and both generate MW, will the units nearby suffer -1 or -2 to their Leadership?

- Is there any special reason to cut out 12" from Aetherfire Cannon range? It was 36" back in 7e. And why is it a whooping 26p, when it was 10p previously? It seems to be a worse Plasma Cannon (which is only 21p)

- Arcane Litanies... can't find them.

- Is there any situation in 8e 40k that a psyker doesn't know Smite? Non-Character units in your Thousand Sons rules may either know Smite or another power...

- Castellax-Achea is missing the power claws. I don't even know why they have shock chargers instead, as it wasn't an option for them in 7e. Also, it's missing the psi-locus special rule (which was very useful) - how about applying it only to powers that target enemy units? Another thing: their Wounds went up from 4 to 6. Kastelan Robot Maniple (40k Mechanicus) went up from 3 to 6W. Maybe 4 to 8W would be more appealing? Of course, this would apply to all Castellax units.

- Any specific reason for nerfing the number of attacks given by Khenetai Occult Blade Cabal's Mindsong of Blades?

- Why are Thousand Sons' named characters considered Traitors? They weren't in the 7e rules. You could add a special rule saying that something like this: "Vengeance is Mine: This unit will have the Faction Keyword <TRAITOR> instead of <FEALTY> if your game occurs after the Burning of Prospero campaign timetable."

- Ahzek Ahriman's Master-Craft Bolt Pistol don't have the -1AP and D2 as usual for MC bolt weapons. Intringuing, he can cast only 2 powers... being the second most powerful psyker in the entire Thousand Sons legion.

- Magistus Amon's Armour of Shades should give +1 to cover bonus to Thousand Sons units within 3" of him, perhaps? The second part of his ability 'Hidden Servants & Secret Scryings' should work only on enemy units, not all units! Lol
His Warlord Trait should exclude Flyer Battlefield Role and <Titanic> units, not everything with <Fly> (his ability used to work on Assault Marines and Land Speeders, after all).

- Magnus can cast only 3 powers? o.O
His 'Sire of the Thousand Sons' ability is missing the ObjSec rule to normal Terminator units.
Where is his Eye of the Crimson King and Phantasmal Aura rules? His Mind Wrath ability from 7e could apply only to Smite (as it does to his 8e incarnation in 40k). Of course, he'd get a hefty points increase to get these back.

- Bonus: why the Sekhmet can't take a power fist with a free other melee weapon on the same hand? Heresy!

Outside that, good work!

So I've held off on commenting until I could get a decent number of test games in with the new update, and while the update has gone a long way to fix some of the issues (especially deployment) it hasn't gone far enough to make RG workable.

current problems:

The stealth mechanics that are in the raven guard ruleset DO NOT WORK. you've retained the ability for characters to take chameleoline, without foillowing the logic that they can no longer be embedded into squads to provide the stealth USR as was originally intended

The darkwing is patently useless, as it lost the major strength it had in 7e 30k (ability to outflank) while recieving another hit from the missiles doing no damage.

Drop-pods in general and especially Drop pod centric Rites of War are completely useless, even with alvarex because of prohibitive cost

I've alluded to some of these points before, but I feel I must reiterate them as I feel after trying this yet again that not enough attention has been given to just how important some of those reserves/abilites/alternate deployment methods are not just to the capabilities of some legions (RG more than most, but it affects BA, NL and AL considerably as well) but also the entire feel of the game.

combined with the massive pendulum swing in the base 8e mechanics to make every single weapon more lethal against marines, and while 8e HH may work for some legions, it does NOT currently work for infantry-heavy fluff-matching RG.



I feel after reviewing this post that it's worthwhile trying to illustrate the point with practical examples, instead of just saying "it doesn't work".

7e RG notable 'standard tactics':
You must accept that your restriction from 'flesh over steel' means that for every armor unit you want to include, there by nature must be one unit that will either be in a different mode of transport (darkwing/stormeagle) or on foot. This becomes increasingly true when decapitation strike is involved, as it restricts you to 1 heavy support, pushing you towards doing the jobs of those units with other options, usually tactical support sections and dreadnoughts.

As a result of the above, apothecaries are a common element in 7e HH RG lists, as they serve as 'carriers' for the chameleoline upgrade (granting the unit they are attached to the stealth USR) and also giving that unit a 5+ FnP. This gives them just enough durability to survive things like medusa/basilist fire and other significant and common unpleasantness that would simply sweep them off the board if they were not in cover.

Where this breaks down in 8e:
there is no more bonus to cover, there is no source of FnP. any of the heavy anti-infantry weapons so much as looks at a unit, it vanishes like smoke in a breeze. this is not simply "8e being more lethal" but that on top of all previous sources of infantry durability due to 'stealth mechanics' simply no longer existing either.


my last six games using the updated HH 8e ruleset have all borne this out. even trying to adapt to it, RG only lets you go so far, and with the loss of outflank and drop pods being comically useless, shielding infantry from that retaliation by reserving them isn't an option that works either.

The Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Blood Angels all have their alternate deployment methods, the same ones they have in 7 and 7.5 30k. The Alpha Legion just needs to be able to count Advance Deployment for Coils of the Hydra.

I dont think that the Raven Guard can or even should be made much better than they are. Blanket option to give everything Cameleoline? No, because then everything is Infiltrating into cover to get their +2 to Svs, then charging out of cover before falling back into it to be covered by allies. It seems to abuse-able.

Across the board however, cheaper transports might not hurt, because several of them seem restrictively expensive.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Blood Angels all have their alternate deployment methods, the same ones they have in 7 and 7.5 30k. The Alpha Legion just needs to be able to count Advance Deployment for Coils of the Hydra.

I dont think that the Raven Guard can or even should be made much better than they are. Blanket option to give everything Cameleoline? No, because then everything is Infiltrating into cover to get their +2 to Svs, then charging out of cover before falling back into it to be covered by allies. It seems to abuse-able.

Across the board however, cheaper transports might not hurt, because several of them seem restrictively expensive.

check my edit.

I've been playing RG a long time, and while in 7e they could be abused, some of that needed to be there to make fluff lists function without getting shitstomped. Currently every single 8e 30k game I've played with the new setup has been awful since unmounted infantry simply don't survive. at all.

After the edit I see your point, but I dont think there is much that they can do other than make vehicles cheaper.

Maybe make Cameleoline into a sort of short ranged Stealth Aura they could take.

"units with a model with in 3" of a Model with Cameleoline and the bearer itself gain +2 to their armor saves while in cover." It would be more expensive though.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
After the edit I see your point, but I dont think there is much that they can do other than make vehicles cheaper.

Maybe make Cameleoline into a sort of short ranged Stealth Aura they could take.

"units with a model with in 3" of a Model with Cameleoline and the bearer itself gain +2 to their armor saves while in cover." It would be more expensive though.

tbh I would be 100% fine with it being more expensive, since I'd be able to hit multiple units in the same general 'area' with it instead of having to take a character/apothecary for every single unmounted squad. (as I currently do in 7e)

Lack of outflank is still a problem, but that applies only to specific units (darkwing/mor deythan, mostly the darkwing) and transports being overcosted is a problem for everyone.

 WindstormSCR wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
After the edit I see your point, but I dont think there is much that they can do other than make vehicles cheaper.

Maybe make Cameleoline into a sort of short ranged Stealth Aura they could take.

"units with a model with in 3" of a Model with Cameleoline and the bearer itself gain +2 to their armor saves while in cover." It would be more expensive though.

tbh I would be 100% fine with it being more expensive, since I'd be able to hit multiple units in the same general 'area' with it instead of having to take a character/apothecary for every single unmounted squad. (as I currently do in 7e)

Lack of outflank is still a problem, but that applies only to specific units (darkwing/mor deythan, mostly the darkwing) and transports being overcosted is a problem for everyone.

Dont reviers outflank?

 Desubot wrote:

 WindstormSCR wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
After the edit I see your point, but I dont think there is much that they can do other than make vehicles cheaper.

Maybe make Cameleoline into a sort of short ranged Stealth Aura they could take.

"units with a model with in 3" of a Model with Cameleoline and the bearer itself gain +2 to their armor saves while in cover." It would be more expensive though.

tbh I would be 100% fine with it being more expensive, since I'd be able to hit multiple units in the same general 'area' with it instead of having to take a character/apothecary for every single unmounted squad. (as I currently do in 7e)

Lack of outflank is still a problem, but that applies only to specific units (darkwing/mor deythan, mostly the darkwing) and transports being overcosted is a problem for everyone.

Dont reviers outflank?

not sure what you're getting at, this is for 30K? but yes, "reiver with grapple-gun" style deployment is the closest thing to outflank that now exists, the same ability exists on eldar war walkers and a couple other 8e 40k units.

Eh sorry was miss reading into things.

i though you meant OF didnt exist in 8th.

 WindstormSCR wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
After the edit I see your point, but I dont think there is much that they can do other than make vehicles cheaper.

Maybe make Cameleoline into a sort of short ranged Stealth Aura they could take.

"units with a model with in 3" of a Model with Cameleoline and the bearer itself gain +2 to their armor saves while in cover." It would be more expensive though.

tbh I would be 100% fine with it being more expensive, since I'd be able to hit multiple units in the same general 'area' with it instead of having to take a character/apothecary for every single unmounted squad. (as I currently do in 7e)

Lack of outflank is still a problem, but that applies only to specific units (darkwing/mor deythan, mostly the darkwing) and transports being overcosted is a problem for everyone.

I'd suggest play testing with that form of Cameleoline and letting them (all of us) know how that works out for you. Transport cost will probably one of those things that constantly gets fine tuned as one thing gets lowered to be too good and another becomes too weak.

Will 30k Custodes rules be released, or is the current 8e version good enough?

Is this project dead? Or are you still working on it?

sempthegreat wrote:
Is this project dead? Or are you still working on it?

It's active. We update the documents with all the notes from here and H30k every three months or so.

Hey guys just a few quick questions my mate who is using the wolf kin is saying that the ignore unsaved wounds on 5+ ability also allows them to ignore mortal wounds on a 5+ is that correct, the problem with that is the rule they have converts normal wounds from Russ into mortal wounds against them? And then they just get to save them? Or No?

Also just related to that regarding both the wolf kin and also you honour guard, when you take an unsaved wound on a 2+ from a character on to one of these models how does that work with multiple damage weapons? Do you generate day d6 wounds from a lascannon all against the character then get them off on a 2+ or do you on a 2+ move the lascannon damage roll onto the wolf kin or honour guard and then roll the damage against them and loose anything else if they are killed

Pukemonkey1 wrote:
Hey guys just a few quick questions my mate who is using the wolf kin is saying that the ignore unsaved wounds on 5+ ability also allows them to ignore mortal wounds on a 5+ is that correct, the problem with that is the rule they have converts normal wounds from Russ into mortal wounds against them? And then they just get to save them? Or No?

Also just related to that regarding both the wolf kin and also you honour guard, when you take an unsaved wound on a 2+ from a character on to one of these models how does that work with multiple damage weapons? Do you generate day d6 wounds from a lascannon all against the character then get them off on a 2+ or do you on a 2+ move the lascannon damage roll onto the wolf kin or honour guard and then roll the damage against them and loose anything else if they are killed

So, the 8ed FAQ clarifies how these 'FnP-style' rules work when it clarifies Disgustingly Resilient. You CAN use them to ignore mortal wounds, and they also work per wound, so you roll Damage first and then try to FnP each wound.

I can't remember where we stole the 'Bodyguard' rule from!! Trying to track down the correct FAQ to clarify.

At the moment, by RAW, it looks like you would hit Russ, roll for number of wounds, then try and pass each wound to the puppy, then take a Really Furry save against each one.

This project is awesome! Thank you for the hardwork all

 ArbitorIan wrote:

So, the 8ed FAQ clarifies how these 'FnP-style' rules work when it clarifies Disgustingly Resilient. You CAN use them to ignore mortal wounds, and they also work per wound, so you roll Damage first and then try to FnP each wound.

I can't remember where we stole the 'Bodyguard' rule from!! Trying to track down the correct FAQ to clarify.

At the moment, by RAW, it looks like you would hit Russ, roll for number of wounds, then try and pass each wound to the puppy, then take a Really Furry save against each one.

If you stole that from something in 40k, I don't know where. All the bodyguard units I know of move the Wound, as in the successful wound roll, and turn that into one mortal wound against the bodyguard. Bodyguards don't move damage, the damage just evaporates.

It's easy to mess that up because we use wound in 3 places, wound characteristic, wound roll, mortal wounds. But the thing is, there isn't really wounds taken in 8th, it's damage.

I don't want to sound like a winjing little autist, but I see a noticeable like of death Guard rules updating. Now nevermind my legion preference, but of all three Favored Of (Primarch) The Deathshorud have the least amount of rules to them.
So without trying to make a drama storm, here is my proposal to buff them up.

The Deathshroud's Plate:
2+ Armor 5+Invuln (as usual)
Protects the wearer from the toughness/strength reducing effects from Rad Weaponry.

Radphage Grenades: Radiological Contamination
Range 6, Type Grenade D3, Str2, AP2+, Damage 1
Radphage Grenades create Radiological Contamination-dangerous terrain for the rest of the game. Infintary/Bikers models with a toughness value that cross over the Radilogicaly Contaminated area take minus 1 toughness to their profile for the rest of the game.
(This weapon has to be bought)

Radilogical Tearing: Power Scythe
Range Melee, Type Melee,
Deathshroud Terminators that make a successful Hit to enemy infantry/biker models with a toughness value in the profile with their Power-Scythe take a minus 1 toughness to their profile for the rest of the game After all normal armor and invulnerable saves have been resolved.

As much as I dislike the idea of a "8th edition 30k", I have to acknowledge it might interests people. However, there are only so few French here, so, do you want me to speak about you project on a French forum ? For people who may want to go 8th with their legions but aren't on this forum ?

Having ran a few scenarios and some playtesting, really liking these rules. I’m primarily a IH player, but we tested them all. Some thoughts:

Raven Guard seem to need just a little more stealth: maybe let infantry take cameleoline at +1 point per model?
Or
I’d also consider letting jump infantry benefit from concealed positions

Ferrus Manus: does he really need the penalty and death from a supercharged plasma shot? Maybe just take a wound? Heck of a way to lose a primarch.

PS: how does one get validated on the 30k forum? I’d love to read instead of asking questions already answered... because I know there are so many that have easy answers.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:

So, the 8ed FAQ clarifies how these 'FnP-style' rules work when it clarifies Disgustingly Resilient. You CAN use them to ignore mortal wounds, and they also work per wound, so you roll Damage first and then try to FnP each wound.

I can't remember where we stole the 'Bodyguard' rule from!! Trying to track down the correct FAQ to clarify.

At the moment, by RAW, it looks like you would hit Russ, roll for number of wounds, then try and pass each wound to the puppy, then take a Really Furry save against each one.

If you stole that from something in 40k, I don't know where. All the bodyguard units I know of move the Wound, as in the successful wound roll, and turn that into one mortal wound against the bodyguard. Bodyguards don't move damage, the damage just evaporates.

It's easy to mess that up because we use wound in 3 places, wound characteristic, wound roll, mortal wounds. But the thing is, there isn't really wounds taken in 8th, it's damage.

Im not sure I agree with that mate, Let me know what you think about the following. So as per the rule book stage 5 of suffering an attack states that after a failed save you inflict damage and for every point of damage the model suffers a wound. Before that stage the model then has not actually suffered a wound. At least according to the rules. So you would resolve damage first. lets say D6 from a lascannon, you roll a 4 and that resolves into 4 wounds suffered, only after you have gone through stages 1-4 in the rulebook. After stage 5 is complete your model has 4 wounds but then your aura ability would trigger on the body guard and on a 2+ you could move the wounds across to your bodyguard as a mortal wounds (each so you would get 4 chances). This represents your bodyguard stepping in and taking some of the damage. This also happens at the same stage games workshop have clarified that models with abilities like the death guard use the 5+ resilience roll to ignore wounds- what i mean is thats after you actually have wounds generated and know how many there are.
The way you propose the rules to work would mean a space marine honour guard could take a blast from a titan and suck all the damage up as a single mortal wound (they have 2 wounds btw in this 30k 8th rules set) – possible 2d6 worth of damage on some of those guns lol – im not sure thats the intent of the rules or the way its written when you follow the rulebook. Also I though the mortal wounds move from model to model so you could have a body guard squad jumping in the way and taking on as much damage as they can rather than just 1 mortal wound on one model. However id love to hear some other points of view on this? If im wrong then im wrong! I think im morally opposed to it to as it sounds like cheese to me. Rather than a chance to help your characters survive you could make them unstoppable, that imperial guard commander just wont die now!!! haha



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also thanks very much to the creators for all the hard work! I am loving this port over to 8th edition- My Alpha legion feel great in 8th edition without being OP or under powered - thanks guys and thanks to everyone who gives feedback too!

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I have to ask : could this lead to a battlescribe data ? I would really love it if it was on battlescribe one day,.

It is! Or at least the first draft is.

The main forums for the project are on Heresy 30k, and there’s a thread developing the BS files here:
http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/topic/10966-8th-ed-legiones-astartes-battlescribe-roster/

Anywhere else we could get these files? Been waiting a week or so to get my account activated to see those forums.

 Zaku212 wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I have to ask : could this lead to a battlescribe data ? I would really love it if it was on battlescribe one day,.

It is! Or at least the first draft is.

The main forums for the project are on Heresy 30k, and there’s a thread developing the BS files here:
http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/topic/10966-8th-ed-legiones-astartes-battlescribe-roster/

Anywhere else we could get these files? Been waiting a week or so to get my account activated to see those forums.

We're just in the process of bundling together the BS files and putting them in the Google Drive folder for the project, so you don't have to be on Heresy30k to see them. Sorry!


-------------------------

OKAY

Roll up Roll up and get in your suggestions for the Summer update. Everything you've mentioned since the last update has been added to the list for working on. IF, AL, DA, TS are all due a look at.

I'd also love it if any SW players had suggestions for their Psychic Powers. We've used the 40k ones at the moment, but it was pointed out ages ago that 30kSW are less Killy and more Thinky than 40k ones. Maybe a selection of powers from Eldar or other Thinky/Predicty 40k factions?

Question Re: Salamanders Pyroclasts
Why is the flamer part of the Flame Projector assault 1 instead of D6?